Re: [Talk-us] US Bureau of Land Management Boundaries

[Martijn van Exel]

Brad — I make use of BLM / NPS / NF boundary data a lot too. I use Gaia GPS for 
this, which overlays this data nicely with what’s in OSM[1]. There are lots of 
other outdoor apps that do the same. I prefer this data live outside of OSM as 
well for similar reasons as Ian stated. Knowing whether land is public or 
private or whether it’s inside or outside a NP, is important to me when I’m in 
the outdoors. I would much rather rely on an authoritative definition of these 
boundaries, than on whatever happens to be in OSM. Since there is no 
on-the-ground verifiability, boundary data is prone to growing stale, as you 
can see happening with census place boundaries. Unreliable data in this case is 
worse than no data at all.
If you’re looking to make a great impact on the map as an outdoors user, I 
would suggest mapping things you know and things you observe when you’re out 
there. Countless times have I been out in the middle of nowhere, to find that 
some mapper before me added a landmark, a water source, or something else that 
really helped me. That is what I like to pay forward.

Martijn

[1] https://www.gaiagps.com/offroad/#maps 
 

> On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:43 PM, brad  wrote:
> 
> Ian, 
> I want to import this data because I think its important for a complete map.  
>  We have national forest, wilderness  and national park boundaries in OSM!   
> This is no different.   If you look at many maps they show all of them.
> 
> I'd like it to show up on any map that I use.   I'm working on a 'better' 
> version for garmin using mkgmap.   I hope it gets rendered with OpenAndroMaps 
> too.   I haven't used the onine osm.org map very much.
> 
> I am excited to participate and improve OSM and in my opinion this is a big 
> gap in the OSM database.   Where I live, we don't use OSM for building 
> footprints, we use it to find our way in the national forest, the BLM land 
> and the national parks.   It's very useful to know what is public or private 
> land.
> 
> Brad 
> 
> On 1/5/19 8:19 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
>> Hi Brad, thanks for proposing this import and posting it here.
>> 
>> I would strongly prefer that we not import boundaries like this into OSM. 
>> Boundaries of all sorts are almost impossible to verify with OSM's "on the 
>> ground" rule, but BLM boundaries in particular are such an edge case (they 
>> have no other analog in the world, really) and almost never have apparent 
>> markings on the ground to check. Since these boundaries aren't visible, this 
>> data can never be improved by an OpenStreetMap contributor. The boundaries 
>> are defined by the government, and any sort of change to them would make 
>> them diverge from the official source.
>> 
>> But having said that, I'm curious why you wanted to import this data? Did 
>> you want to have it show up on the osm.org  map? Are you 
>> trying to build a custom map? Or are you excited to participate and improve 
>> OSM? If it's the latter, there's lots of other data that is a better fit to 
>> import into OSM: address points and building footprints come to mind, for 
>> example.
>> 
>> -Ian
>> 
>> On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 9:03 PM brad > > wrote:
>> I'd like to import BLM (US Bureau of Land Management) boundaries into 
>> OSM.This is not an automated import as you can see from my workflow.
>> 
>> Workflow:
>> Download shape file from PADUS (1 state at a time): 
>> https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/ 
>> 
>> Load into Qgis and filter for BLM boundaries
>> Clean up as necessary (there are some extraneous ways at state 
>> boundaries & elsewhere)
>> 
>> Convert to OSM with ogr2osm and the following tags
>>  tags.update({'type':'boundary'})
>>  tags.update({'boundary':'protected_area'})
>>  tags.update({'operator':'BLM'})
>>  tags.update({'ownership':'national'})
>>  tags.update({'protect_class':'27'})
>>  tags.update({'source':'US BLM'})
>>  use the shapefile attribute 'Unit_Nm' as the name
>> 
>> Import with JOSM
>> 
>> The San Luis unit (CO) is here for your inspection.
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0 
>> 
>> 
>> Comments?
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] US Bureau of Land Management Boundaries

[Ian Dees]

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 10:42 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> This data is no less verifiable than national forest boundaries and
> federal wilderness boundaries; these generally need to be checked against
> official sources, just as BLM boundaries will.
>
> Municipal boundaries are perhaps even harder to verify than boundaries of
> BLM land and National Forests in some States.
>

Those things shouldn't be in OSM either. They make it harder for people to
map and are out of date the moment the data is converted. If you want to
see this information on a map, it's available from the original source for
you to add to your own map. It's the same sort of data that can not be
improved by the community, so It doesn't belong in OSM.
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Re: [Talk-us] US Bureau of Land Management Boundaries

[Joseph Eisenberg]

This data is no less verifiable than national forest boundaries and federal
wilderness boundaries; these generally need to be checked against official
sources, just as BLM boundaries will.

Municipal boundaries are perhaps even harder to verify than boundaries of
BLM land and National Forests in some States.

But I wonder about using boundary=protected_area and class 27 for BLM land.
While this fits with the wiki definition of “land owned by the
public/government”, it’s odd to include this under protected_area, and it
is not specific.

If you are adding BLM lands that have any specific protection or planned
usage it would be good to try to find more specific classes, when possible.

There was a comment about this on the wiki discussion page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:boundary%3Dprotected_area#Relationship_of_public.2FGovernment_and_protection
On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:45 PM brad  wrote:

> Ian,
> I want to import this data because I think its important for a complete
> map.   We have national forest, wilderness  and national park boundaries in
> OSM!   This is no different.   If you look at many maps they show all of
> them.
>
> I'd like it to show up on any map that I use.   I'm working on a 'better'
> version for garmin using mkgmap.   I hope it gets rendered with
> OpenAndroMaps too.   I haven't used the onine osm.org map very much.
>
> I am excited to participate and improve OSM and in my opinion this is a
> big gap in the OSM database.   Where I live, we don't use OSM for building
> footprints, we use it to find our way in the national forest, the BLM land
> and the national parks.   It's very useful to know what is public or
> private land.
>
>
> Brad
>
> On 1/5/19 8:19 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
>
> Hi Brad, thanks for proposing this import and posting it here.
>
> I would strongly prefer that we not import boundaries like this into OSM.
> Boundaries of all sorts are almost impossible to verify with OSM's "on the
> ground" rule, but BLM boundaries in particular are such an edge case (they
> have no other analog in the world, really) and almost never have apparent
> markings on the ground to check. Since these boundaries aren't visible,
> this data can never be improved by an OpenStreetMap contributor. The
> boundaries are defined by the government, and any sort of change to them
> would make them diverge from the official source.
>
> But having said that, I'm curious why you wanted to import this data? Did
> you want to have it show up on the osm.org map? Are you trying to build a
> custom map? Or are you excited to participate and improve OSM? If it's the
> latter, there's lots of other data that is a better fit to import into OSM:
> address points and building footprints come to mind, for example.
>
> -Ian
>
> On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 9:03 PM brad  wrote:
>
>> I'd like to import BLM (US Bureau of Land Management) boundaries into
>> OSM.This is not an automated import as you can see from my workflow.
>>
>> Workflow:
>> Download shape file from PADUS (1 state at a time):
>> https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/
>> Load into Qgis and filter for BLM boundaries
>> Clean up as necessary (there are some extraneous ways at state
>> boundaries & elsewhere)
>>
>> Convert to OSM with ogr2osm and the following tags
>>  tags.update({'type':'boundary'})
>>  tags.update({'boundary':'protected_area'})
>>  tags.update({'operator':'BLM'})
>>  tags.update({'ownership':'national'})
>>  tags.update({'protect_class':'27'})
>>  tags.update({'source':'US BLM'})
>>  use the shapefile attribute 'Unit_Nm' as the name
>>
>> Import with JOSM
>>
>> The San Luis unit (CO) is here for your inspection.
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] US Bureau of Land Management Boundaries

[brad]

Ian,
I want to import this data because I think its important for a complete 
map.   We have national forest, wilderness  and national park boundaries 
in OSM!   This is no different.   If you look at many maps they show all 
of them.


I'd like it to show up on any map that I use.   I'm working on a 
'better' version for garmin using mkgmap.   I hope it gets rendered with 
OpenAndroMaps too.   I haven't used the onine osm.org map very much.


I am excited to participate and improve OSM and in my opinion this is a 
big gap in the OSM database.   Where I live, we don't use OSM for 
building footprints, we use it to find our way in the national forest, 
the BLM land and the national parks.   It's very useful to know what is 
public or private land.


Brad

On 1/5/19 8:19 PM, Ian Dees wrote:

Hi Brad, thanks for proposing this import and posting it here.

I would strongly prefer that we not import boundaries like this into 
OSM. Boundaries of all sorts are almost impossible to verify with 
OSM's "on the ground" rule, but BLM boundaries in particular are such 
an edge case (they have no other analog in the world, really) and 
almost never have apparent markings on the ground to check. Since 
these boundaries aren't visible, this data can never be improved by an 
OpenStreetMap contributor. The boundaries are defined by the 
government, and any sort of change to them would make them diverge 
from the official source.


But having said that, I'm curious why you wanted to import this data? 
Did you want to have it show up on the osm.org  map? 
Are you trying to build a custom map? Or are you excited to 
participate and improve OSM? If it's the latter, there's lots of other 
data that is a better fit to import into OSM: address points and 
building footprints come to mind, for example.


-Ian

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 9:03 PM brad > wrote:


I'd like to import BLM (US Bureau of Land Management) boundaries into
OSM.    This is not an automated import as you can see from my
workflow.

Workflow:
Download shape file from PADUS (1 state at a time):
https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/
Load into Qgis and filter for BLM boundaries
Clean up as necessary (there are some extraneous ways at state
boundaries & elsewhere)

Convert to OSM with ogr2osm and the following tags
 tags.update({'type':'boundary'})
 tags.update({'boundary':'protected_area'})
 tags.update({'operator':'BLM'})
 tags.update({'ownership':'national'})
 tags.update({'protect_class':'27'})
 tags.update({'source':'US BLM'})
 use the shapefile attribute 'Unit_Nm' as the name

Import with JOSM

The San Luis unit (CO) is here for your inspection.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0

Comments?



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Re: [Talk-us] US Bureau of Land Management Boundaries

[Ian Dees]

Hi Brad, thanks for proposing this import and posting it here.

I would strongly prefer that we not import boundaries like this into OSM.
Boundaries of all sorts are almost impossible to verify with OSM's "on the
ground" rule, but BLM boundaries in particular are such an edge case (they
have no other analog in the world, really) and almost never have apparent
markings on the ground to check. Since these boundaries aren't visible,
this data can never be improved by an OpenStreetMap contributor. The
boundaries are defined by the government, and any sort of change to them
would make them diverge from the official source.

But having said that, I'm curious why you wanted to import this data? Did
you want to have it show up on the osm.org map? Are you trying to build a
custom map? Or are you excited to participate and improve OSM? If it's the
latter, there's lots of other data that is a better fit to import into OSM:
address points and building footprints come to mind, for example.

-Ian

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 9:03 PM brad  wrote:

> I'd like to import BLM (US Bureau of Land Management) boundaries into
> OSM.This is not an automated import as you can see from my workflow.
>
> Workflow:
> Download shape file from PADUS (1 state at a time):
> https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/
> Load into Qgis and filter for BLM boundaries
> Clean up as necessary (there are some extraneous ways at state
> boundaries & elsewhere)
>
> Convert to OSM with ogr2osm and the following tags
>  tags.update({'type':'boundary'})
>  tags.update({'boundary':'protected_area'})
>  tags.update({'operator':'BLM'})
>  tags.update({'ownership':'national'})
>  tags.update({'protect_class':'27'})
>  tags.update({'source':'US BLM'})
>  use the shapefile attribute 'Unit_Nm' as the name
>
> Import with JOSM
>
> The San Luis unit (CO) is here for your inspection.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0
>
> Comments?
>
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[Talk-us] US Bureau of Land Management Boundaries

[brad]

I'd like to import BLM (US Bureau of Land Management) boundaries into 
OSM.    This is not an automated import as you can see from my workflow.


Workflow:
Download shape file from PADUS (1 state at a time): 
https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/

Load into Qgis and filter for BLM boundaries
Clean up as necessary (there are some extraneous ways at state 
boundaries & elsewhere)


Convert to OSM with ogr2osm and the following tags
    tags.update({'type':'boundary'})
    tags.update({'boundary':'protected_area'})
    tags.update({'operator':'BLM'})
    tags.update({'ownership':'national'})
    tags.update({'protect_class':'27'})
    tags.update({'source':'US BLM'})
    use the shapefile attribute 'Unit_Nm' as the name

Import with JOSM

The San Luis unit (CO) is here for your inspection.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0

Comments?

Brad


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