Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 3:44 PM Volker Schmidt  wrote:

>
> There are many different OSM tagging "dialects" to describe the details of
> a foot-cycle-way crossing a road.
> I looked up the situation of the example on Mapillary. From that it looks
> as if the specific path is a combined foot cycle way  (yellow diamond sign
> with a bicycle and a pedestrian side by side).
>

That sign means both cyclists and pedestrians may be present.  Generally
whether it's a cycleway that lacks sidewalks, or if it's a path, is the
presence of pavement markings.  The latter is foot=yes, highway=cycleway if
it allows pedestrians but doesn't have a specific foot route.
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Re: [Talk-us] Talk-us Digest, Vol 153, Issue 6

[Bob Gambrel]

Cycleway crossing

At the risk of opening this discussion too far, here is the way I handle
exactly this situation.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id#map=21/45.14100/-93.38143

Ignore any slight mis-alignment between aerial photos and the location of
the nodes and ways. I used Mapbox and things line up fine with it. Other
images sources not quite as well.

Background: in my area almost all "trails" are dual use (bike & foot) so I
use the ID pre-set for Cycle & Foot Path. I also set the pavement type, the
bike-ped separation, one-wayness, and width.  These tags look like:

bicycle=designated
foot=designated
highway=cycleway
name=Rush Creek Regional Trail
oneway=no
segregated=no
surface=asphalt
width=3

For crosswalks when I am doing detailed mapping (which I did for this
area), I do not connect the trail to the road until I have done the
following: I use the ID presets for either marked or unmarked crossing. I
do it by splitting the way at both curbs (usually), then picking the
appropriate preset. I then set foot and bicycles access to designated
(reason below). I then adjust surface type, tactile paving (if known) and
refuge island (almost always no). By splitting first, then connecting
later, ID automatically sets the crossing point (node) as a marked or
unmarked crossing and I don't have to.

In this crosswalk the tagging looks like:

bicycle=designated
crossing=marked
crossing:island=no
footway=crossing
highway=footway
name=Rush Creek Regional Trail
segregated=no
surface=asphalt
width=3

I believe the above follows the wiki, provides lots of very correct
information, and, btw, renders very nicely (e.g. in OSMAND).

My rationale for setting the access to designated: in our  area these 3
meter asphalt trails are designed for both foot and bike traffic. The
trails are designated for that. If a crosswalk connects two segments (as
does this) I assume the crosswalk is designated as well.

If I am in a hurry and cannot do a detailed job on the crosswalk, I connect
the crossing ways and let ID put in a simple crossing node. I usually
modify it to be marked or unmarked.



On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 1:35 PM  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Cycleway Crossings (Doug Peterson)
>2. Re: Cycleway Crossings (Paul Johnson)
>3. Re: Cycleway Crossings (Mateusz Konieczny)
>4. Re: Cycleway Crossings (Natfoot)
>5. Re: Cycleway Crossings (Paul Johnson)
>6. Re: Cycleway Crossings (Doug Peterson)
>7. Re: Cycleway Crossings (James Umbanhowar)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 07:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "Doug Peterson" 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings
> Message-ID: <1596798661.2...@dpeters2.dyndns.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to
> a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are
> fine. It is that the crossing is then been changed to a footway.
>
> I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> addressing crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show
> intersections or crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before I made
> any effort on changing these back I wanted to ask if there was any other
> knowledge out there about this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 08:44:19 -0500
> From: Paul Johnson 
> To: OpenStreetMap talk-us list 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings
> Message-ID:
> <
> campm96ox+3tsnak80hwscx_xw7cbco-gxo8fkxxx-cdjtrz...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 6:11 AM Doug Peterson <
> dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org> wrote:
>
> > I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to
> > a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings
> are
> > fine. It is that the crossing is then been changed to a footway.
> >
>
> Can we get an example?
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> U

Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Volker Schmidt]

There are many different OSM tagging "dialects" to describe the details of
a foot-cycle-way crossing a road.
I looked up the situation of the example on Mapillary. From that it looks
as if the specific path is a combined foot cycle way  (yellow diamond sign
with a bicycle and a pedestrian side by side).
That means the path could be tagged as
highway=path
bicycle=designated
foot=desgnated
segregated=no
(plus surface, smoothness, width, lit etc)
The part that crosses the road (between the kerbs) should additionally be
tagged with
path=crossing
The crossing node between the foot-cycle-way and the road should be tagged
as
highway=crossing
crossing=uncontrolled
foot=yes
bicycle=yes

The essential part is that the crossing node caries the information that is
needed fr routing along the road for cars, and for bicycles and pedestrians
along the foot cycle way.

I noted that the highway=path carries the name and the the corresponding
relation carries the same name. That seems redundant.

Volker






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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Natfoot]

all of my edits are using the ID presets.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:53 AM Mark Wagner  wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Aug 2020 07:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
> "Doug Peterson"  wrote:
>
> > I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding
> > crossings to a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike
> > trail). The crossings are fine. It is that the crossing is then been
> > changed to a footway.
> >
> > I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> > addressing crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show
> > intersections or crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before
> > I made any effort on changing these back I wanted to ask if there was
> > any other knowledge out there about this.
>
> This almost always happens because someone's adding crosswalks using
> iD, types "crosswalk" into the tag search, sees "Marked Crosswalk"
> (highway=footway, footway=crossing, crossing=marked) as the first hit,
> and fails to notice "Marked Cycle Crossing" (highway=cycleway,
> cycleway=crossing, crossing=marked) as the fourth.
>
> --
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Mark Wagner]

On Fri, 07 Aug 2020 07:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
"Doug Peterson"  wrote:

> I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding
> crossings to a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike
> trail). The crossings are fine. It is that the crossing is then been
> changed to a footway. 
> 
> I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> addressing crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show
> intersections or crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before
> I made any effort on changing these back I wanted to ask if there was
> any other knowledge out there about this.

This almost always happens because someone's adding crosswalks using
iD, types "crosswalk" into the tag search, sees "Marked Crosswalk"
(highway=footway, footway=crossing, crossing=marked) as the first hit,
and fails to notice "Marked Cycle Crossing" (highway=cycleway,
cycleway=crossing, crossing=marked) as the fourth.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Harald Kliems]

Yeah, I think the defaults in iD are most likely what's causing this
tagging. I've seen a lot of it in my area as well.
 Harald (hobbesvsboyle)

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 1:36 PM James Umbanhowar  wrote:

> I think that iD doesn't have a preset for cycleway=crossing so that
> editors may think that is not a valid tag for a crossing.
>
> On Fri, 2020-08-07 at 14:04 -0400, Doug Peterson wrote:
> > That wiki page was helpful. In one set of cases the change was from
> > highway=cycleway on the way to highway=footway and adding
> > footway=crossing. In another set it added highway=crossing to the
> > intersection node. It looks like from the crossing wiki that the
> > tagging should really be on the node. Way can be tagged as a crossing
> > but it seems discouraged. The footway wiki indicates footway=crossing
> > should also be on the node.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > Mateusz Konieczny  wrote ..
> > >
> > >
> > > Aug 7, 2020, 13:11 by dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org:
> > >
> > > > I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding
> > > > crossings to a designated
> > > cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are
> > > fine. It is that
> > > the crossing is then been changed to a footway.
> > > link?
> > >
> > > > I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> > > > addressing crossings.
> > > There was one screenshot that seemed to show intersections or
> > > crossings with roads
> > > remaining as cycleways. Before I made any effort on changing these
> > > back I wanted
> > > to ask if there was any other knowledge out there about this.
> > > is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing maybe helpful?
> >
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[James Umbanhowar]

I think that iD doesn't have a preset for cycleway=crossing so that
editors may think that is not a valid tag for a crossing.

On Fri, 2020-08-07 at 14:04 -0400, Doug Peterson wrote:
> That wiki page was helpful. In one set of cases the change was from
> highway=cycleway on the way to highway=footway and adding
> footway=crossing. In another set it added highway=crossing to the
> intersection node. It looks like from the crossing wiki that the
> tagging should really be on the node. Way can be tagged as a crossing
> but it seems discouraged. The footway wiki indicates footway=crossing
> should also be on the node.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> 
> Mateusz Konieczny  wrote ..
> > 
> > 
> > Aug 7, 2020, 13:11 by dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org:
> > 
> > > I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding
> > > crossings to a designated
> > cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are
> > fine. It is that
> > the crossing is then been changed to a footway. 
> > link?
> > 
> > > I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> > > addressing crossings.
> > There was one screenshot that seemed to show intersections or
> > crossings with roads
> > remaining as cycleways. Before I made any effort on changing these
> > back I wanted
> > to ask if there was any other knowledge out there about this.
> > is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing maybe helpful?
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Doug Peterson]

That wiki page was helpful. In one set of cases the change was from 
highway=cycleway on the way to highway=footway and adding footway=crossing. In 
another set it added highway=crossing to the intersection node. It looks like 
from the crossing wiki that the tagging should really be on the node. Way can 
be tagged as a crossing but it seems discouraged. The footway wiki indicates 
footway=crossing should also be on the node.

Thanks,

Doug

Mateusz Konieczny  wrote ..
> 
> 
> 
> Aug 7, 2020, 13:11 by dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org:
> 
> > I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to a 
> > designated
> cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are fine. It is 
> that
> the crossing is then been changed to a footway. 
> >
> link?
> 
> >
> > I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything addressing 
> > crossings.
> There was one screenshot that seemed to show intersections or crossings with 
> roads
> remaining as cycleways. Before I made any effort on changing these back I 
> wanted
> to ask if there was any other knowledge out there about this.
> >
> is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing maybe helpful?
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:49 PM Natfoot  wrote:

> here is my example and location specific response
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/663362208
>

I'd probably call that highway=path, bicycle=designated, foot=yes based off
what I'm seeing in the aerial photography.  I seem to recall it was striped
out as a cycleway at one point and it's possible the lane and edgelines
wore off; if this is the case, then highway=cycleway, foot=yes would be the
correct set of tags for that short collection that got dinged to
highway=footway.  I will say that highway=footway is definitely
inappropriate in this one.
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Natfoot]

here is my example and location specific response
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/663362208
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 10:14 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Aug 7, 2020, 13:11 by dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org:
>
> I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to
> a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are
> fine. It is that the crossing is then been changed to a footway.
>
> link?
>
>
> I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> addressing crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show
> intersections or crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before I made
> any effort on changing these back I wanted to ask if there was any other
> knowledge out there about this.
>
> is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing maybe helpful?
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us]

Aug 7, 2020, 13:11 by dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org:

> I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to a 
> designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are 
> fine. It is that the crossing is then been changed to a footway. 
>
link?

>
> I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything addressing 
> crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show intersections or 
> crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before I made any effort on 
> changing these back I wanted to ask if there was any other knowledge out 
> there about this.
>
is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing maybe helpful?

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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 6:11 AM Doug Peterson <
dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org> wrote:

> I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to
> a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are
> fine. It is that the crossing is then been changed to a footway.
>

Can we get an example?
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[Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Doug Peterson]

I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to a 
designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are fine. 
It is that the crossing is then been changed to a footway. 

I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything addressing 
crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show intersections or 
crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before I made any effort on 
changing these back I wanted to ask if there was any other knowledge out there 
about this.

Thanks,

Doug
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