Re: [Talk-us] MapRoulette challenges wiki
Even in Map Roulette, there are some places where I could have taken a larger chunk, a single area with 5 connectivity errors is just as easy to fix; I just got one such roulette spin, and wasn't sure if I should fix the others or not, because there's no way to mark them fixed. Fix them anyways. It was explicitly recommended in the previous incarnation as remap-a-tron, because all the data was re-analyzed nightly. I'm pretty sure I read the same for maproulette. They'll get recognized as fixed, I'm sure. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] What to do with unnamed NHD streams
What would be saved by dropping the nameless intermittent streams assuming they were simplified? I expect this really varies by location. In my area (Washington County, Oregon) these streams were quite useless. Most of them were just plain gone, replaced by farm fields or suburban housing tracts. (Insignificant snow here also) Perhaps it would be worthwhile to make them available as a separate OSM file, which local mappers could import in addition to the main file. (yes, duplicated nodes, blah blah blah, josm verify-fix, big deal :-) - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Burlington, Vermont road classification
The crux of the problem is the answer to the question: Which is more important, outside/official classifications, or physical characteristics? The tagging pages on the wiki don't really provide clarity on this matter. Although the wiki may not be very clear, this subject has been discussed extensively on talk-us in the last year or two. For the highway tag in particular, the consensus I've seen is that it is definitely more about the physical characteristics, driveability, and perhaps perceived local importance than any government classifications. Yes, part of that is subjective. Highway=motorway in particular is about physical characteristics, regardless of being state, US, or Interstate highway. Primary/secondary/tertiary are more related to size and/or local importance, which sometimes matches gov't classifications but often does not. (Related to this is the ref tag, used to designate official route numbers.) - Alan___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - NOW working for me
On 9/29/2012 2:18 PM, Alan wrote: Anyone else have problems with recent versions of these no longer working for them? Um, sorry, false alarm. After completely clearing out my SD card, and making sure there were no left over recycle bin or hidden files, I tried it all again and it worked. Looks like just stupid user error on my part :-( (I do wonder if there was a more subtle explanation in the VFAT filesystem on the sd card, where the Nuvi may only read the DOS 8.3 short filename. I wonder if there is a scenario where one might copy a file to the card and then rename it, ending with a long name of gmapsupp.img and a short name of GMAPSU~1.IMG or something. Always looking for someone to blame other than me :-) Thanks for everyone's advice anyways! - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - NOW working for me
On 9/29/2012 2:18 PM, Alan wrote: Anyone else have problems with recent versions of these no longer working for them? Um, sorry, false alarm. After completely clearing out my SD card, and making sure there were no left over recycle bin or hidden files, I tried it all again and it worked. Looks like just stupid user error on my part :-( (I do wonder if there was a more subtle explanation in the VFAT filesystem on the sd card, where the Nuvi may only read the DOS 8.3 short filename. I wonder if there is a scenario where one might copy a file to the card and then rename it, ending with a long name of gmapsupp.img and a short name of GMAPSU~1.IMG or something. Always looking for someone to blame other than me :-) Thanks for everyone's advice anyways! - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - not working for me
On Sun, 2012-09-30 at 21:09 -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: Could folks that are having trouble try some single tiles or a set generated directly from Lambertus's site? OK, I tried directly from Lambertus's site. I tried the pre-defined state of Oregon from http://osm.pleiades.uni-wuppertal.de/garmin/generic/26-09-2012/98f98a467c2ca93389e891f40b15a33d/ and it worked. The Nuvi 200 recognized it as OSM generic routable. I'm requesting a custom tile set now from there. We'll see what it does. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?
Another suggestion: motorways and trunks without lanes=number tags - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - not working for me
On Sat, 2012-09-29 at 17:48 -0400, Richard Welty wrote: my Nuvi is relatively new (about 2 years old). how old is the firmware on your Nuvi? Mine is rather old. Not sure about the date, but probably at least 5 years old. It just says Nuvi 200, software version 5.00, GPS SW Version 2.20b. Next I'll try Dave's suggestion of going straight to Lambertus's site. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] JOSM zoom limits per server solved (fixes Tiger grey overlay )
I also found there is a minimum zoom also. Put it in the url as min,max like
tms[16,19]:http://...
Fixes the grey tiles when I zoom back out.
- Alan
On Sep 23, 2012, at 12:54 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote:
I knew about the max zoom setting but for some reason never thought about
applying it to the TIGER tiles to fix the grey
Toby
On Sep 21, 2012 1:23 PM, Alan Millar grunthos...@yahoo.com wrote:
Maybe everyone else knows this, but I just discovered it myself so I
thought I would share it.
I've been using Remap-a-tron to fix up US roads. I use both the Bing
imagery and the TIGER 2012 tiles overlaid, and it makes it really
useful.
However, I've been frustrated that I can pretty far in with the Bing
images, but if I go too far, the Tiger (normally transparent) tiles turn
grey and obscure the Bing images. I've been continually turning off and
back on the Tiger layer, which is a bit annoying after a while.
JOSM has an easy limit in the Preferences for the maximum zoom, but it
affects everything. I set it to 19, and then I did not get the grey
boxes from Tiger, but did not get the higher detailed photos from Bing
either.
As it turns out, JOSM does have a max-zoom per tile server feature; it
just is not obvious or clearly documented that I could find.
You can enter it as part of the TMS url like this:
tms[19]:http://{switch:a,b,c}.tile.openstreetmap.us/tiger2012_roads/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
The number 19, right up front, says that the maximum zoom to use for
this layer is 19. This solved the whole thing for me.
I also found that if you go into Josm preferences in expert mode, and
dig and dig and dig into the imagery providers entries, this is labeled
as max-zoom. Too bad it isn't easier to find.
Anyways, hope this helps others too.
- Alan
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[Talk-us] JOSM zoom limits per server solved (fixes Tiger grey overlay )
Maybe everyone else knows this, but I just discovered it myself so I
thought I would share it.
I've been using Remap-a-tron to fix up US roads. I use both the Bing
imagery and the TIGER 2012 tiles overlaid, and it makes it really
useful.
However, I've been frustrated that I can pretty far in with the Bing
images, but if I go too far, the Tiger (normally transparent) tiles turn
grey and obscure the Bing images. I've been continually turning off and
back on the Tiger layer, which is a bit annoying after a while.
JOSM has an easy limit in the Preferences for the maximum zoom, but it
affects everything. I set it to 19, and then I did not get the grey
boxes from Tiger, but did not get the higher detailed photos from Bing
either.
As it turns out, JOSM does have a max-zoom per tile server feature; it
just is not obvious or clearly documented that I could find.
You can enter it as part of the TMS url like this:
tms[19]:http://{switch:a,b,c}.tile.openstreetmap.us/tiger2012_roads/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
The number 19, right up front, says that the maximum zoom to use for
this layer is 19. This solved the whole thing for me.
I also found that if you go into Josm preferences in expert mode, and
dig and dig and dig into the imagery providers entries, this is labeled
as max-zoom. Too bad it isn't easier to find.
Anyways, hope this helps others too.
- Alan
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Re: [Talk-us] Large area of deleted streets in Riverside, Calif.
Here is a neighborhood that could be imported from TIGER 2012: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.29183lon=-95.4831zoom=17 Thanks - Alan If most of it really is missing then it might be a good candidate to re-import from new TIGER data as I have done in some other hard hit areas of LA. It would help if you supply a permalink to the exact area. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] The Remap-A-Tron, Second Wave
Quite a few hours later, I'm still seeing the 403 errors on those two paths. I've cleared browser cache and reloaded, with no improvment :-( Forbidden You don't have permission to access /remappingservice/count on this server. Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu) Server at lima.schaaltreinen.nl Port 80 From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org To: Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com Cc: Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com; Talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [Talk-us] The Remap-A-Tron, Second Wave What is your browser? Can you inspect the network activity on the page? Are http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/remappingservice/ and http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/remappingservice/count called and do they return valid (geo)JSON? Can you try a force-reload of the page? (ctrl-shift-r if you use Firefox) Does anyone else still have trouble? On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm Still seems stuck on the same location for me. I cleared my cache just to make sure that wasn't it. Dale On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: I repaired it - it was an apache config setting that was a little too strict. How'd that happen? Your guess is as good as mine. Bottom line is the Remap-a-tron works like a charm once more. Martijn On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: yea, something busted, I will look into it tonight... Hang in there folks - and thanks for using! Martijn On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure if it is just me, but this seems stuck today. All was fine yesterday. I only get one map location and it will not move to another with 'W' A few of the deleted ways have led me to some large missing subdivisions and poor downtown type areas... A bit of OCD kicks in and an hour+ later I'm finally done :p Dale On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com wrote: I told Martijn the toold would be a great way to do Projects of the Month or Projects of the Week. Maybe there would be a way to track who did what, so we can recognize people who did a lot of work. Charlotte At 02:20 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: A fantastic tool! If it can be expanded to finding other issues even better. Dale On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Hi, On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: A similar query could be used to find overlapping ways which are of the same level and do not share a way. This could help with routing. There are a lot of queries like this which wouldn't be hard to do. - Serge Interestingly I was just discussing overlapping ways with Telenav yesterday. This will be a very useful thing to detect, but as these overlapping ways are not visible on the Mapnik map so the R-a-T may not be so useful for that. Some folks over at Telenav are developing a JOSM plugin that works in a similar way (iterating over error points pseudo-randomly and letting you fix them one by one) and may be better suited to these 'invisible' problems. Martijn -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com -- Dale Puch -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Re: [Talk-us] The Remap-A-Tron, Second Wave
Yes, that fixed it. Thanks! - Alan From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org To: Alan Millar grunthos...@yahoo.com Cc: Talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [Talk-us] The Remap-A-Tron, Second Wave Mweh. I suck at apache configuration. Try again, please? Martijn On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Alan Millar grunthos...@yahoo.com wrote: Quite a few hours later, I'm still seeing the 403 errors on those two paths. I've cleared browser cache and reloaded, with no improvment :-( Forbidden You don't have permission to access /remappingservice/count on this server. Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu) Server at lima.schaaltreinen.nl Port 80 From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org To: Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com Cc: Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com; Talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [Talk-us] The Remap-A-Tron, Second Wave What is your browser? Can you inspect the network activity on the page? Are http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/remappingservice/ and http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/remappingservice/count called and do they return valid (geo)JSON? Can you try a force-reload of the page? (ctrl-shift-r if you use Firefox) Does anyone else still have trouble? On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm Still seems stuck on the same location for me. I cleared my cache just to make sure that wasn't it. Dale On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: I repaired it - it was an apache config setting that was a little too strict. How'd that happen? Your guess is as good as mine. Bottom line is the Remap-a-tron works like a charm once more. Martijn On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: yea, something busted, I will look into it tonight... Hang in there folks - and thanks for using! Martijn On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure if it is just me, but this seems stuck today. All was fine yesterday. I only get one map location and it will not move to another with 'W' A few of the deleted ways have led me to some large missing subdivisions and poor downtown type areas... A bit of OCD kicks in and an hour+ later I'm finally done :p Dale On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com wrote: I told Martijn the toold would be a great way to do Projects of the Month or Projects of the Week. Maybe there would be a way to track who did what, so we can recognize people who did a lot of work. Charlotte At 02:20 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: A fantastic tool! If it can be expanded to finding other issues even better. Dale On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Hi, On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: A similar query could be used to find overlapping ways which are of the same level and do not share a way. This could help with routing. There are a lot of queries like this which wouldn't be hard to do. - Serge Interestingly I was just discussing overlapping ways with Telenav yesterday. This will be a very useful thing to detect, but as these overlapping ways are not visible on the Mapnik map so the R-a-T may not be so useful for that. Some folks over at Telenav are developing a JOSM plugin that works in a similar way (iterating over error points pseudo-randomly and letting you fix them one by one) and may be better suited to these 'invisible' problems. Martijn -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- martijn van
Re: [Talk-us] street prefixes
On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: Southwest Town Center Loop West comes to mind as a great example of just plain brain damaged street naming Wilsonville tends to have. You know, I should find out if I can see Mt Hood when driving east on Southwest North Dakota Street :-) - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Use of ref-tag on state highways
On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: If you don't like it, you can always find a different country to armchair-map That's a little harsh. Where do you live now? New Jersey? Florida? Portland? L.A.? I can't keep track, but you sure get around to read a lot of signage. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Another day, another bad import
On May 1, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Toby Murray wrote: Every time I go editing in some new place, I always find another reason to hate imports. Yeah... Every time I go editing in some new place, I always find another reason to hate newbies, too. If you are looking for a reason to hate something, it's always easy to find them. Human nature. Perhaps it's not the most constructive outlook, or discussion, to have. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Another day, another bad import
On May 1, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Richard Weait wrote: I think that is different in a significant way. It is much easier to fix a newbie than to fix an import. Not if you start your conversation with them with I hate newbies. That was my real point. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] NHD data import question
I've been checking some of the imported data and my general feel is that it is overdigitized. I don't know if medium versus high reflects just the quality or the amount of digitization. That would be something to check. One could also just run some sort of simplification algorithm on all the data. I definitely found this to be the case for some parts of the area I did (Washington County, Oregon). I particularly remember it on areas like ponds and lakes; not so much on rivers and streams. Most of them were reasonable, but a fair number of them had way too many nodes. I used the JOSM simplify way quite a bit, which worked perfectly in my opinion. It may be analogous to TIGER, in that NHD may have a composite dataset that got created in multiple ways. It may show up more in some places than others. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Proposed cleanup: NHD rivers
On Mar 22, 2011, at 9:17 PM, Paul Norman wrote: This is now complete for the area west of Portland Oregon as a test. http://www.paulnorman.ca/blog/?attachment_id=96 shows the difference. Nice improvement! I like it. About 99.8% of the data was untouched since it was imported. I checked the other dozen or so ways by hand. I did that import, and did a lot of cleaning up as I was importing it. So I think that probably reduced the amount of cleanup that anyone needed to do later. But I definitely felt at the time that the source data and value translations were a little vague. I really like the current proposal and example results. Looks great! - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Request for community mediation
I've spotted the consensus. Stop your bickering. Either come to an agreement about this tagging, or ignore each other, but absolutely stop picking on each other. You and Frederick seem to be the only ones with that view who contributed to this thread. As Ian said, the rest of us just haven't been stirring the pot. I agree with Richard and Ian. While I like the Wikipedia concept of be bold in editing, we don't need edit wars. I personally have been a contentious troll myself at times, and I find I need to back off, take a breather, and chill out some. I think both of you would benefit likewise, and OSM would be better off. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Feature Proposal - RFC - Directional Prefix Suffix Indication
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 01:40 -0400, David ``Smith'' wrote: Maybe we should use signed_name=* or name:signed=* to store exactly what's on the sign, preserving abbreviation and prefixes where present? I found N. Temple, No Temple, and North Temple on city street signs all within a few blocks. Which one goes in the tag? - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Address Standard
On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 13:57 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: My main goal was to separate out the directional prefix because, which while important for mailing, did not really belong as part of the street name. I thought I would take care of the suffix as well. You may think it doesn't really belong as part of the street name, and that may possibly be true in your neighborhood. But in my neighborhood, it definitely IS part of the street name and can't be left off, for mailing or not. In my part of the Portland area, SW Takena is a completely separate unrelated street from NW Takena. In Seattle, Forest Ave S is completely separate and unrelated from Forest Ave SE. So I disagree, it does belong as part of the street name. If you have a prefix or suffix that you think is optional, don't call it the directional prefix or suffix that the rest of the country uses; we have them for a reason. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal
On Sat, 2010-08-07 at 13:15 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: I vote for 3) It's there for good reason. If you want abbreviations, tell your map renderer to garble the data for you. Pre-garbling the data complicates other usage scenarios. Don't do it. +1 Call me an abbreviation police if you want. But you can make software reliably abbreviate things; you can't make it reliably unabbreviate things. If you think you really need abbreviations, you need to work on the renderer, not the tags. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal
How about this proposal for US streets: (1) Leave name unabbreviated (2) Put whatever form you want of abbreviated name in name:en Thoughts? - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal
On Sat, 2010-08-07 at 22:35 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: For those voting +1 have you even read my original proposal on the reason I want to abbreviate? Yes. You gave a list of reasons it would be OK, and rules people would have to follow to make it work. Some of the reasons I consider suspect (such as almost always in small letters is a subjective, regionally-variant assessment). Other reasons were more rules and restrictions (such as period after single-letter abbrevs.) OSM is hard enough for people to get consistent on already. Keep the name tag unabbreviated. You certainly CAN have all the abbreviations you want. I'm just saying not to put them in the name tag; put them in another tag. I personally don't care if it is loc_name, alt_name, name_2, name:en, abbreviated_name, or whatever else you want to call it. Then work on getting the renderer to show it instead of the name tag when it exists. Why isn't that a good solution for you? - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] How to get college students involved?
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Stefan Brandle sbran...@cse.taylor.eduwrote: I suspect that reading all available documentation might be a good start. :-) It might, but it also might get you bogged down too. Two years into this myself, I'm still uncovering corners of all available that I didn't know were there :-) I definitely endorse jumping in and trying out the parts you can figure out (as it sounds like you're doing), while continuing to read/learn in parallel. For ponds in particular: one part of OSM I did not understand at first was that areas are the same as ways; they just connect beginning to end. So to draw a pond, make a way around the edge of the water (presumably tracing aerial photos) and connect the last node to the first node. The only thing that distinguishes an oval area from an oval track is the tagging. Tag the pond as natural=water, and you are done. Be sure to keep the wiki Map_features page handy. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] A Friendly Guide to 'Bots and Imports
As I manually survey various features (POIs, some hydro, etc.), I usually try to merge in the data from existing imports so as to maintain the link (e.g. gnis:feature_id) back to the original database, in case we want to exchange updates with them again. this is impossible due to the license terms, That may be the short quick answer, but it is not the long answer. The link will be valuable as we figure out other ways to synchronize the data and/or make dual-license updates; either originated from OSM or from the other party like USGS. Simple? No. Impossible? No. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Removing tiger:* tags
On Jul 29, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Anthony wrote: In any case, I disagree that it's better to leave information you know to be wrong in rather than deleting it. Perhaps that's our fundamental disagreement. For my part in the conversation, I *agree* with you that people should delete (or fix when possible) information that they know is wrong. But that is not the (or my) fundamental disagreement. My disagreement is on the deletion of *all* tiger: tags, because you don't see a need for them or you don't like the namespace or they don't fit your view of what/where/how they should be documented. As for tiger:name_base, tiger:name_type, etc., if there's someone that's using that information, we definitely should take it out of the tiger namespace. I'd be happy to move it from tiger:name_base=* to name_base=* instead of deleting it, if someone is using it and would take 5 minutes to put something up on the wiki announcing it. If it's useful, then it's useful for non-tiger ways as well as tiger ways. Yes, it is useful for non-tiger ways as well. And I will bet it will be useful for other countries besides the U.S. also. I haven't seen a conclusion on what people want to see in the naming convention (see for example the thread at http:// lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2010-April/003138.html). Just because the conversation is ongoing, that doesn't mean you need to delete the data in the meantime. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] United States Roadway Classification Guidelines
set of guidelines at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Roadway_Classification_Guidelines I read the whole page, and this is the first comprehensive narrative I've seen that makes sense to me for mapping highway tags on US roads. This is a good proposal. It looks clearly like more of a process description than a hard definition of tag values, but I believe that is necessary for the highway= tag in the US. The proposal linked here suggests that mappers tag roads classified by the government with certain highway= tags. I didn't get that interpretation from it. The proposal qualifies govt classes as for the first iteration, followed by further rounds of re-evaluation and refinement. But that doesn't mean a two lane at-grade highway should be coded the same in one area as a four lane limited access highway in another. Agreed, but I didn't read such an extreme disparity in the proposal. In contrast, a two-lane at-grade country highway in one area *should* have the same highway= tag value as a 4-lane urban boulevard in another area, when neither are limited-access freeways nor residential streets but do have similar local significance. We have those tags: lanes=*, width=*, etc. But there's no on the ground definition of importance, Yes there is. It's the highway= tag. I think the point is that the highway tag is *not* an on-the-ground definition, because you can't go out to every road in the US with a camera and measuring tape and say This sign or measurement right here tells me exactly that this road is a primary/secondary/tertiary. Some values are pretty clear, such as motorway and residential. But others only have general correlations, such as a US highway is likely or often a primary or secondary, or a county highway is likely or often a secondary, and a big suburban street is likely or often a tertiary. But there is no exact measurement of importance, so it is subjective. But that is OK. The highway tag doesn't NEED to be an exact on-the-ground measurement or classification. It needs to be a one-word summary that most people will find useful for navigating through the area by car, bike, or roller-skate. Further clarification of the road, such as government classification and detailed physical properties, should come through other tags *in addition* to the highway tag (ref=, lanes=, width=, surface=, access=, route relations, etc). and there's nothing wrong with tagging correctly for the renderers. Yes there is. Tagging for the renderers is the first thing people in OSM will tell you *not* to do. OK, now this is getting silly. People are told not to tag *incorrectly* to force a particular appearance from the renderer. Nobody is told not to tag *correctly* when it matches what people want to see rendered. Classification has been subjective from the beginning in the US, because there is no consistent government-assigned classification. That is incorrect. There is a relatively consistent government-assigned classification system. There is one US federal, fifty state, and a thousand county classification systems, and they don't consistently define road standards across the entire country. Only US Interstate is pretty clear and unambiguous. Classification has been subjective because... means that you can't take any government-assigned classification that we have in the US (US highway, state highway/state route, county highway/county road), and say it *always* reasonably determines useful values of highway=trunk/primary/secondary/tertiary. It can only be a good starting guess, no more. The suggestion I made in my first reply to this thread was that we use a separate tag to describe what the US government calls the way. I think most everyone agrees. It is mostly reflected already as the ref= tag or a route relation. I don't think most people would object to additional tagging for it. You know, I think people are more in agreement on the whole subject than it appears from these discussions. The emails look like a lot of disagreements, but perhaps it is more wording than actual disagreement on the ideas and substance. - Alan -- Alan Millar a...@bolis.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Oklahoma WMS?
Does anybody have sources for license-compatible WMS servers in Oklahoma? All I am aware of is the USGS data, which is very out of date to the point of inaccuracy around Tulsa and OKC. I've found the USGS choices confusing on how to find the right thing, until recently. This page appears to have the most up-to-date images: http://seamless.usgs.gov/wms_services.php?layerid=15 According to http://imsortho.cr.usgs.gov/WMS_Capabilities/USGS_EDC_Ortho_Oklahoma/capabilities_1_1_1.xml?REQUEST=capabilitiesSERVICE=WMS it's 2007 for Tulsa and 2008 for OKC. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Regional Street Centerline Solution - Minneapolis- St. Paul metro area - RFP
Hi talk-us: For those of you who might have skipped over this simply because it seems difficult to do, I ask that you at least skim over the sections in Exhibit 1 of the PDF. As OSM gets more attention from groups interested in using it, it's important to realize that the things requested in this PDF aren't all that crazy and probably would make for a good source of ideas for improvements to OSM's infrastructure. I agree. It is a very interesting idea, and yes, it does sound difficult, and also compelling for good improvements. In the near term, I personally have a hard time picturing the community maintaining the detailed rigor that would be required to meet the Metro's needs. In particular, OSM ways can be split and combined quite easily as needed for OSM usage, but this is a data nightmare for cross-referencing to other data sets. Bunch of TIGER lines + combine into one OSM way with a string of TLIDs in a tag + move, add, delete nodes to align with misc aerial photos - split way at every turn restriction and speed limit change or lane count change = cross-reference barf... While I like the general idea that OSM forgoes the traditional GIS layers in favor of the tag free-for-all, this is one of those times where the hard segmentation of data is probably necessary. You would need some serious edit controls to make it effective. Adjunct databases would seem to be necessary to maintain this. Look at TopOSM; sheer beauty. Anyone notice that US address search *IS* available on maps.cloudmade.com? Hmmm... (I'm hoping open mapquest does the same, too.) Having said all that, I *love* the idea of TIGER lines imported into OSM, getting cleaned up, being supplied back to Metro, to be fed back to the Census Bureau. I hope somebody can pull this off. This seems like an excellent project for a small OSM-savvy professional firm, or Cloudmade, or similar. Maybe AOL wants to start a patch.com branch in Minneapolis along with an open mapquest project. - Alan -- Alan Millar a...@bolis.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] simple osm-merge.sh updated for multiple files
andrzej zaborowski wrote: There's a dummy script at http://repo.or.cz/w/ump2osm.git/blob/HEAD:/osm-merge to do that (would need to be modified for 2 layers). Here is my updated version of osm-merge.sh I also changed it to process files using double-quotes as I get from shp-to-osm.jar -- #! /bin/bash # Copyright (C) 2009 Andrzej Zaborowski # # Merge two .osm files without applying fancy logic (JOSM merge layers # operation tries to be too smart and corrupts data - see bug #2245) # # Updated 2010-07-11 by Alan Millar - accept more than two files # Process double-quotes if [ $# -lt 2 ]; then echo Usage: $0 a.osm b.osm ... \ new.osm 2 exit fi echo ?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'? echo osm version='0.6' generator='$0' FileNumber=0 while [ $# -gt 0 ] do echo File $FileNumber $1 12 cat $1 \ | grep -v -e 'osm' -e '?xml' -e '/osm' \ | sed -e 's/id=-/id=-'$FileNumber'00/' \ -e 's/ref=-/ref=-'$FileNumber'00/' FileNumber=` expr $FileNumber + 1 ` shift done echo /osm -- - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Either the US has a much greater density of airfields/airports than other parts of the world, I don't know about that. many airfields/airports have yet to be mapped in other areas of the world, Yes, definitely. or the GNIS import brought in a bunch of airfields that are no longer in operation. Has anyone noticed a bunch old airfields in their area created by the GNIS import that really shouldn't be on the map. I don't know if it is a bunch, but they certainly are there. I did a little research last year, and it looks like the GNIS list came from an FAA list. It appeared to include such things as clearance requested and granted for airstrips but never built, and former airstrips that have since been replaced by new construction. All I know is that when I look at the aerial imagery where some of these airfields/airports are supposed to be, all I see is a field. Could be that it's just a grass runway?. Those do exist. Whether they merit inclusion on the map is subjective. I think the large/medium/small size suggestion is a really good idea. In my town there's one airport that's supposedly in the middle of the golf course. There are some golf resorts with their own airstrips. But if you know the area, and know there is a golf course there and no airstrip, by all means feel free to fix the map and delete the obsolete airport item. Thanks for keeping an eye out for this stuff. - Alan -- Alan Millar a...@bolis.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Resigning in protest
the LWG has been going through peoples legitimate and illegitimate concerns for two years I think it's been now. We've had lawyers checking everything at every step of the way. I personally just want to say thank you to the license working group for taking on the thankless job of wrangling the legal issues and trying to plug the holes in the intellectual property issues. I am so sick of the intellectual property parasites these days like the patent aggregator trolls, the DMCA-weilding EULA writers, the virtually-perpetual-copyright-extension legislators, the corporate execs who fund these legislators and then monopolize business through it, the @#$%$ratzle#$%!fratzin'!...@*?!!Oops, sorry, I got carried away there. (At least Darl McBride finally got canned; it only took how many years and how many millions$$$? Ugh.) Anyways, thank you to the OSM LWG and the Creative Commons and ODbL people who use their powers for good instead of evil :-) - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
Perhaps I'm not a typical mapper, but I don't find the existence of bulk imported local data to have been particular inhibiting in my activity level. I don't believe there is any one thing as a typical mapper. But I certainly agree with you myself, and so do many others, as witnessed by many past postings to the talk-us list. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] TIGER considered harmful
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 06:07 +, talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Heh, I didn't even know we had Oregon data available. We didn't at the time. I checked. Metro had (still has) restrictive licensing, and the state did not have any clearing house at the time. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
no one is interested to cleanup crap after a bad import. I am. tiger import was great from technical point of view but didn't allow to build a community from scratch. I didn't want to build anything from scratch. I'm simply not that motivated to go out and wander everywhere mapping everything. If we had to start from scratch, I would not do it. no one is motivated to fix this broken data. I am. I have fixed a lot of it. And in doing so, I have made complete, correct map areas, much larger than I ever would have done by starting from scratch. Be careful about making absolute generalized statements like everyone and no one. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fixing Alignments in JOSM
However in reality it is a staggered junction. So I need to split the North-South way into two pieces and it intersects the East-West way in two places. Depending on how far off the stagger is, you also may want to consider not splitting it, but just aligning the streets with two extra nodes. I've come across this where the stagger is small, and feels like it can still be considered one intersection. Here's an example of several intersections like that within a few blocks of each other: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.56144lon=-122.65675zoom=17layers=0B00FTF Your taste may vary; it's just an alternative suggestion. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Addresses and Tiger
I have been playing around with the TIGER 2008 data, which, for some of the counties around Atlanta seems to be much better than the old data. If I import it for some of the counties, though, I would like to import the addresses in a format that would be usable for routing software. The most popular schema seems to be the Karlsruhe Schema, but making use of it would require generating three OSM ways for each TIGER way - one on either side to represent the houses on that side of the road. That seems unnecessarily complex, but there does not seem to be any widely accepted schema that places the data on the way itself. Does anyone have any thoughts on that question? I had the same thoughts on the Karlsruhe schema. Having 3 ways for street and address interpolation does seem complex. But when I look at OSM areas mapped using it, and also recall problems I've encountered with geocoding, I think the Karlsruhe schema works pretty well. (At least if we keep full street information on the addressing ways, and not just the house numbers.) I've also been thinking about how to retrofit the addressing data to existing areas which have already been edited and/or adjusted. Having multiple TLIDs per way, and then having ways split and/or recombined, will make it difficult. Just having multiple TLIDs per way could be hard, when the way has been moved from its original Tiger location. We'll have to interpolate the interpolation points, I guess. Hmmm - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
I'd also be very happy if JOSM flipped the tag for me when I edit a tiger object. It seems reasonable enough that if I'm editing something that we can consider it reviewed. I certainly don't want to have to go flip it manually every time I go fixing some minor road details. Good idea. (I would personally prefer to be configurable. Sometimes I align a road from aerial photo but want to remind myself to actually visit it later because something in the photo is unclear, so I leave it at reviewed=no.) There are two things I do currently to help in the cleanup: search and presets. In JOSM, you can search on the word modified and it will select all items you modified. Select the tiger:reviewed tag and delete it. If any of the modified items didn't have the tag, it doesn't hurt anything. And of course, you can select a rectangular region on the screen and do the same tag edit. I also made myself some JOSM tag presets and stick them on the main button bar. In each one, I set the tiger:reviewed value to blank, which will delete the tag if it is there. Here are some examples of mine: presets item name=T_Rvw label text=Flag as Tiger data reviewed / key key=tiger:reviewed value= / /item item name=Svc_Drvwy label text=Flag as service=driveway / key key=highway value=service / key key=service value=driveway / key key=tiger:reviewed value= / /item item name=M_link label text=Flag as h=motorway_link,oneway=yes / key key=highway value=motorway_link / key key=oneway value=yes / key key=tiger:reviewed value= / /item and so on. So before uploading: Ctrl-FmodifiedEnterClick T_RviewEnter I wonder if I can shorten that even more? Hmm... - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] GNIS Import
There's a copy tags feature in JOSM that doesn't seem to work. That's about the only way I know of right now. Pasting tags from node to way did not work for me, as recently as just a few weeks ago. However, I tried it just now on the current version 1515 and it worked. If there are tags on the way which you don't want to overwrite, just delete those tags from the node before copying. Not a good solution for the general case, but for the GNIS import, the node is just going to get deleted anyways. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] gnis:reviewed=no map features
if you can put the list of features along with the corrisponding OSM tag to a wiki page, this would be helpful :) (then i can help match features cross-check to what i have) Unfortunately, in the case of my import for USGS Geonames items, they don't have specific feature categories. I'm doing subjective classification based on the names. In the source data, they are just classified as building. So to be more specific about what I am doing, I will take a building named Oregon State Police and tag it with amenity=police. Unless it is named Oregon State Police Administration Building, in which case I will tag it with amenity=public_building. So since I am not mapping discrete values, I don't think my list would be any more useful on a wiki page than the exising Map_Features page. FYI, although I'm calling this an import, mine is a semi-automated manual process. I'm doing this in a text editor on a file with one POI per line. I put in a value on each line for which tag I think it should have, which as I said is a manual guessing process. Lots of editor search-and-replace type stuff. I do have a little program to turn the text file into an osm xml file, but other than that, it is not really automated. I load the XML file into JOSM, validate, and upload from there. i'm opting NOT to use the tag geobase:reviewed=no Your reasoning sounds good. I'm adding it to my load, because my tags are so subjective. I don't think the main USGS Geonames import needed it. Your plan should be fine, in my opinion. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Court of Appeal Rejects Santa Clara County's Basemap Data Sale
One wonders what could be motivating the County to continue this very expensive resistance to complying with the PRA. preach audience=choir Probably because Santa Clara is Silicon Valley, where a great amount of the local economy has been based on intellectual property law and issues. The past 20 years of software patents, digital rights management, and other such innovations are old habits (a century in Internet time) that are hard to break. /preach Fortunately it is also full of equally innovative new efforts. Nice to see progress! - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tiger 2008 Data
does the census bureau publish any sort of a diff, or delta dataset? i'd think that just in terms of raw crunching that having just the differences from year to year would save a lot of work, both manual and CPU-cycles. Not that I've seen. What they do publish is the TLID and TZID numbers in their data. These are permanent segment and node numbers which do not change from one Tiger release to the next, so you can do your own comparisons and updates. It also means that if you want to synchronize with them, you need to keep and maintain their TLID and TZID numbers. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] intertwined ways in Austin TX
Does anyone with knowledge of the script have time to fix things in Austin? Yes, I will take care of it. Thanks for finding it. Well, that was interesting. There were about 200 braided streets in Austin that I found and fixed. They must really like the center island type of street. Let me know if you see any more. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Portland data
In the US at least, I didn't think works paid for by the government could have a restrictive copyright claim placed on them. In the US we have several levels of governments. Works created by the nation-wide federal government cannot be copyrighted. However, that does not apply to state, county, or city governments. They can copyright their works. Portland includes this statement: -- Copyright The City of Portland asserts ownership of its spatial data and all its portions. All title, ownership, and intellectual property rights which may exist or be created with the geospatial data shall remain with the City of Portland. The arrangement of facts of the geographic data, the organizational structure of the GIS databases, the coding of the GIS databases, the format of the GIS databases and the graphic design of its maps are the property of the City of Portland, as registered and protected by US copyright statutes and treaties. Recipients are restricted from displaying City spatial data on the public Internet without express written consent from the City. -- This can be found at http://www.portlandonline.com/omf/index.cfm?c=28144 in the data licensing documents. Maybe this is data that a company put together and then is licensing to the city? That is true in many situations. Portland mentions this in their data description, and says that data from commercial companies used by the City isn't even available from the City. The data that is available from the City is still copyrighted and restricted, as mentioned above. They have provisions for non-profit and educational use of the city GIS data at no cost, or low cost, but it does not include the right to redistribute the data. Too bad :-( - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Maps of State of Wisconsin, USA
It looks like a lot of useful information can be gleaned from this, especially county, township, park, and municipality borders. I'm not sure if, or how, the maps could be used directly without some sort of PDF overlay method in JOSM, or maybe a highly speciallized PDF - OSM converter. I haven't looked at the Wisconsin data, but I did do a little experimentation with PDFs. If the PDF contains a bitmap, you can extract it with any number of tools, but you're stuck with tracing. If it contains vector data, you can start to do intersting things. You can convert it to SVG using pstoedit. I experimented a little using pstoedit to create svg, and then started on a perl script to convert the SVG to an OSM file for JOSM. It could be made to work for small areas where map projection would not be a problem. But because it is just line drawing data, you lose all original metadata about the lines. If some other GIS-type data is available, I'd try to use that first. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-us
