Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
I'm really intrigued by this conversation. Neighborhood identity is subjective - collectively defined by residents and stakeholders (businesses, and other organizations) within and outside of the neighborhood as well as governments, politicians, and the media. Nonetheless, I believe they belong in OpenStreetmap because they are an important part of capturing what may not physically be on the ground but the name is represented in discussion and the neighborhood may have characteristics unique to its bordering neighborhoods (housing types, types of businesses, socioeconomic status, local business types, and obviously, local geographic features - lakes, rivers, etc) Given the subjective, fluid nature of neighborhoods - especially boundaries - where one neighborhood ends and one begins - may change from person to person, they are best represented as a single node in the area where there is greatest consensus that the neighborhood is located. This can be very roughly estimated by OSM mappers who locally live in or near the area. stevea, Great work that you've done in your area with the neighborhood classification. I would just caution that deriving Neighborhood boundaries solely from the governments could be problematic because they don't represent the other stakeholders (mentioned earlier) and in the case of Cleveland, Ohio, neighborhood names designated by city planners are used mostly for planning purposes and have little influence on neighborhood identity reality on the ground. As darrell just mentioned, soliciting people to draw their neighborhoods has been done in Boston by Andy Woodward as well as Bill Morris in Burlington, Vt. As for tagging, as I understand, based on existing practice and previous discussions - lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2009-August/001437.html and lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2008-December/000594.html , neighborhoods within municipal limits, place=suburb is actually the most appropriate based on the tag's description in the wiki and d. place=neighbourhood was for smaller, distinct areas that would be considered to be within an existing neighborhood (place=suburb) but also be referred to by and additional name as well. An example of this in Cleveland would be Gordon Square within the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood. Regarding Zillow, I'd hesitate to import them but only because of my very limited experience of them (being Akron and Cleveland) where their neighborhood names were derived from local government data sets and in both cases were quite outdated and were representing the reality for most within Cleveland. Regards, Will ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Tag for Tim Horton's
hi, I was just curious if there's a consensus on what tag to use for a tim horton's. I've found http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cuisine%3Dcoffee_shop and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines which both mentioned variations. For what it's worth, this location was a single building and had a drive-thru as well. regards, will. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Visualizing editathon edits
Hey everyone, Good chatting (or miming) on the google hangout. A question I forgot to ask: A couple of the editathon participants in Cleveland have asked me if there's a visualization or way to see the edits that we've made that day. I know of whodidit - (in our case - http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=11lat=41.384lon=-81.66867layers=BTTage=3 but didn't know of any others offhand. Are there any other tools to generate visualizations of edits made in our area (or nationally) during the editathon ? Thanks, Will. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Tagging Live Indoor Music Venues (continued)
To those who commented, thank you. I've created a wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dmusic_venue that include the points that most of we were able to agree upon, which is using amenity=music_venue to tag these places. As for using concert_hall, and other more complex tags, we can continue the discussion on there (or here if you want) and as more of these objects are tagged, more tags can be used. regards, will. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Tagging Live indoor music venues
Hi, I was curious us to hear what others have been using to tag music venues. There's numerous places in my city that hold upwards of 1,000 people for music concerts (also called 'shows'). In the US, they're indoors, serve alcohol, and usually only open when there are shows. There's usually admittance fees to enter. I'm thinking of places like House of Blues (yes, there's restaurants adjacent to some of them, but the one i've been to is separate from the concert venue), (Cleveland places like Beachland Ballroom, the Grog Shop), and more famous places like Bowery Ballroom. I looked on the wiki, didn't find anything besides a dead proposal - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Music_venue That uses amenity=music_venue and has 56 uses according to taginfo. There's amenity=nightclub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dnightclub but I don't think would be a great fit, there's not dancing at the concert venues (unless count the occasional mosh pit) that I'm describing. Plus, maybe it's just me, nightclub don't have live performers unless you count DJ's. Here's a related question on it in help - https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/13007/which-tag-should-be-used-for-a-concert-hall amenity=concert_hall has about 67 uses according to taginfo. At first thought, I don't think there's an appropriate documented tag, so I'm inclined to use amenity=concert_hall or amenity=music_venue Your thoughts ? regards, will. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Cleveland 2013 Meeting Recap
Just an FYI, Cleveland had its first meeting of 2013 last week - here's a recap of it - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/skorasaurus/diary/18494 With pictures ! Feel free to comment here or on the diary entry. Regards, Will ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OSM-edit-a-thon, Growing US User Groups/Communities
Great discussion so far and perfect timing for us in Cleveland, we're having our first event of 2013 tomorrow. http://www.meetup.com/cleveland-civic-hacking/members/23087451/ Given Cleveland's population relative to other cities, our mutual interests and the sheer overlap between OSM and open source GIS tools (QGIS, postGIS, Tilemill, cartodb, etc), other co-organizers and I thought it would be a great fit for our user group to focus on both OSM and FOSSGIS/Open Geospatial tools. (Personally, I think this synergy is really useful: one feature of OSM that deserves to be emphasized more is being able to use that data in really neat ways - maps, visualization, analysis, etc - that you couldn't do with google maps). Some things that we've run into, could need help on: We haven't thought of a name yet (related to above): Open Geo ? Open geo-spatial ? Open Gis ? OSM/FOSSGIS ? Naturally, I'm also soliciting suggestions at tomorrow's meeting. Semi-related: call ourselves a user group ? Community ? IMHO, user group, to me, has a negative connotation of a bunch of old white guys sitting around (ala GNU, BSD) and not interacting with other communities in their area. I guess this (determining a name) sort of also relates to what actually we'll be doing... I crafted a very crude mission statement a few days ago (on our wiki page), but a mission statement is something that should be developed by the group , and refine itself organically as activities go on . How often to hold meetings ? I'm thinking bi-monthly, regularly scheduled would be a really good fit. We had 3 events last year although not on a regular basis and it was definitely noticeable of a loss of momentum after the first 2. Agree with Serge on his point. In other organizations that I've led or participated, it is much easier to maintain momentum by having regularly scheduled meetings. That said, this is a problem experienced by other organizations that I've participated/led in and I've already had 3 state their interest but unable to attend due to a conflict. So we may rotate the day of the week, but keep the same week. Should we as a group choose something to work on ? One thing that I've noticed from last year's meetings and HOT: there were a few users who saw OSM to help them reach a particular goal or scratch their itch of a particular interest (verifying roads to facilitate routing, mapping all of the places of worship in an area, etc) and began mapping that but there were others who were interested but, for lack of a better word, were overwhelmed of what to begin mapping and where. (As I type this out, I'm thinking to suggest to them tomorrow to map out a few restaurants/bars or other POIs in their neighborhood). Has any other OSMers encountered this in their users group ? Should we focus on a particular topic, (after soliciting suggestions from members) ? I'm likely going to use JOSM to walk them through their first edits. I've used JOSM at past meetings in Cleveland (most of our attendees in the past have been relatively technically savvy) and while in Senegal for HOT. iD is a couple months away (?!) from being able to be used in this context. However, Potlatch's emphasis (on documentation, maintenance) is likely to decrease (maybe not, I'm just basing this on my impressions) soon as well. Interested to hear what others have done or planning to do. Lastly, when I first started using OSM a couple years ago, I was really frustrated by a few terms that were sometimes unique to OSM, sometimes used in other areas of GIS) that appeared convoluted (some of them were just a result of British English being used) or went into overwrought, technical detail, or were simply outdated. So, I'm preparing a cheat sheet that very briefly describe these terms, in less technical language. Aimed to be a supplement to people who may not have a laptop or smart phone with them and just want a brief reminder what these terms mean as they make their first edits, hear them used in my presentation, discussions, or reading OSM documentation . https://gist.github.com/4614619 I encourage to fork and improve it, feedback. Regards, Will PS - I found this great overview of open-source mapping/geospatial tools by Nate Kelso - a great supplement that I plan on sharing with attendees. https://github.com/nvkelso/geo-how-to ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Discardable TIGER tags
Here's my 2 cents on the mentioned tiger tags, fwiw: tiger:cfcc - As I understand, its original purpose was to classify different highway types, but once the appropriate OSM tags [derived in part from this tag, and then also from whatever other sources, imagery, personal visit, etc] have been added to the way, this tag doesn't serve any purpose. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_to_OSM_Attribute_Map#Roads If someone wants to see the history of the way, they can check the history with that tag. Also, in my experience the CFCC from 2007 were often incorrect, especially for highway=residential ways that should be marked highway=unclassified, tertiary, secondary, primary, or service. Tiger:separated - After reading tiger:separated=yes in the link above, doesn't that mean the way should be mapped in OSM as two separate ways ? If it's already mapped as 2 separate ways, then delete the tag. Tiger:tlid - Could be removed. I've had newbies ask me at mapping parties what it means, I haven't been able to answer them. I haven't seen any use for its inclusion at this point. tiger:upload_uuid: Could be removed. I haven't seen any use for its inclusion at this point, was useful in past, as Toby mentioned. -will ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Talk-us Digest, Vol 52, Issue 18
As a relative recent us mapper, I've mapped only a few Sub divisions and they're low on priority list to map. One, I live in the dense city which is more efficient to map (more to map in a small area) and when I go on errands, I can take alternate routes to map that aren't far out of the way. For subdivisions, they tend to be dead ends, only one way in and out. Also, I do a bit of my mapping while biking and roads surrounding sub divisions usually aren't bike friendly. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, I also map to explore my city, finding new businesses to try, see great architecture and places. The sub divisions generally don't offer that. On Mar 15, 2012 6:44 PM, talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Send Talk-us mailing list submissions to talk-us@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-us-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-us digest... Today's Topics: 1. suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey (Hillsman, Edward) 2. Re: suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey (Mike N) 3. Re: suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey (Martijn van Exel) 4. Re: suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey (Richard Weait) 5. Re: suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey (Alan Mintz) 6. Re: Route Relations and Special (Bannered) Routes (Craig Hinners) 7. Re: suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey (Nathan Edgars II) 8. Re: suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey (Nathan Mills) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:52:56 -0400 From: Hillsman, Edward hills...@cutr.usf.edu To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-us] suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey Message-ID: 5e720878f33d3244932503066fc93bf067f5b86...@usfmail2.forest.usf.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 3/14/2012 21:18:57 -0400 Nathan Edgars II wrote: Depending on the state or local government, you may be able to verify names against an official dataset. Otherwise subdivision plats work for the endless suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey. In the interest of figuring out how to attract more people to participate in OSM, I'd like to see some more discussion of this. Is it generally true that people who work on OSM don't like to map subdivisions? And, if so, why? Because these are home to so many people in the US, it raises a question about the viability of strategies that suggest people start in OSM by mapping their own neighborhoods. I admit that I prefer not to, but because of where I live and work, my activity space doesn't take me into them very often. I did start out in OSM by mapping my neighborhood surroundings. I have mapped some subdivisions (ways and land-uses but not individual houses) and don't find them boring or onerous (for onerous, splitting streets into dual carriageways is at the top of my list). Ed Hillsman -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:27:03 -0400 From: Mike N nice...@att.net To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] suburban superblocks that nobody wants to survey Message-ID: 4f61ee27.3040...@att.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 3/15/2012 8:52 AM, Hillsman, Edward wrote: In the interest of figuring out how to attract more people to participate in OSM, I'd like to see some more discussion of this. Is it generally true that people who work on OSM don't like to map subdivisions? And, if so, why? Because these are home to so many people in the US, it raises a question about the viability of strategies that suggest people start in OSM by mapping their own neighborhoods. I don't know anything about this specifically. It's interesting that not a single person in those 120 subdivisions was interested in mapping their own subdivision. I have done some onsite surveys of smaller subdivisions (100-400 homes), and can set this up with a camera, video cam, and bike to collect quite a lot of information in a single visit, and the end result is streets with lanes, speed limits, one ways, and house numbers. In this area, since no one else is participating[1], it's just a practical matter to create the base new subdivision information from TIGER since the local governments don't freely give this information. The only followup surveys are quick to clarify obvious errors in the TIGER data. The subdivision plat idea is new to me, but I'm not sure where I'd find them. [1] It is notable
