Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: I don't see a problem with access=private as this could be handy for micromapping a property. access=public should probably be access=yes. The tagging proposal to date imagined only the shared dump stations of the type that would (in years past) have appeared on AAA maps. If it's to be used for backyard or per-site hookups, the proposal needs adjustment. --- Mapping a hookup in someone's backyard offers* the same pitfalls as mapping their home toilet and recycling bin.* The next level of private is guests only, which I called destination. *The cases seem to be:* per-site hookup, available only to registered guests at the particular site shared dump station, available only to guests of the destination shared dump station, available for drive up shared dump station, free *Tagged as:* Way/node or As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel station), without a specific position. As a tagged property of a numbered camp slot (e.g. sites 1-22 offer per-site hookups). A caravan site might have 200 private hookups. We don't want the hookups to be rendered at the same level as the central dump station. Backyard dump stations should render even less prominently, if they are even mapped at all. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: Please consider participating in the wiki voting for: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sanitary_Dump_Station These sites have various names including dump station, dump point, caravan dump station, sanitary station, Elsan disposal point (UK), pumpout, and chemical dump point (CDP). Taking a look at it now. That photo makes my toes curl...seriously get some disposable gloves on, and turn them inside out as you take them off... what do you think you're going to be touching on your way to the sink? access= suggestion should use standard access tags; I don't see a problem with access=private as this could be handy for micromapping a property. access=public should probably be access=yes. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: A caravan site might have 200 private hookups. We don't want the hookups to be rendered at the same level as the central dump station. Backyard dump stations should render even less prominently, if they are even mapped at all. Let's not forget that tagging isn't the renderer. If a renderer can't dim or hide access=private on such a POI when it's not desirable to display a private sanidump, it's the renderer, not the tagging, that's broken. Let's not forget that humans are mappers. The shared sanidump at the local caravan site might well get tagged access=private. Or maybe access=private will be used for the per site hookups. *The cases seem to be:* private backyard dump stations. per-site hookup, available only to registered residents (at a long term residential trailer park or dock). per-site hookup, available only to registered guests at a leisure destination shared dump station, available only to guests of the destination shared dump station, available for drive up/boat up use. shared dump station, free. *Tagged on:* Way/node As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel station), without a specific position. As a tagged property of a numbered slot (e.g. sites 1-22 offer per-site hookups). Each of those cases needs clear tags if we hope mappers to use them consistently. Your suggestions? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: A caravan site might have 200 private hookups. We don't want the hookups to be rendered at the same level as the central dump station. Backyard dump stations should render even less prominently, if they are even mapped at all. Let's not forget that tagging isn't the renderer. If a renderer can't dim or hide access=private on such a POI when it's not desirable to display a private sanidump, it's the renderer, not the tagging, that's broken. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:04 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel station), without a specific position. Probably not as this is almost certainly too vague. There are already hundreds of those, mostly in New Zealand, that seem to work fine. When looking at a list of campgrounds, it's helpful to know which ones have a sanitary dump station, even if those campgrounds are only mapped as nodes. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:04 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel station), without a specific position. Probably not as this is almost certainly too vague. There are already hundreds of those, mostly in New Zealand, that seem to work fine. When looking at a list of campgrounds, it's helpful to know which ones have a sanitary dump station, even if those campgrounds are only mapped as nodes. I meant geographically too vague, as we're talking about navigating something in roughly the same dimensions, weight and steering dynamics as a PSV or a HGV in many cases. It's way faster, safer and easier to plan it so you can reach it going forward than it is having to back up for it, after all. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
Are there any rendering packages that can be set to render private objects for only a preset list of operator tag values? So, if an association of recreational vehicle owners has waste disposal stations only for registered users, a map generated by that association could show dump stations open to the general public, plus dump stations open to their members, while not showing dump stations open only to members of competing organizations? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On March 17, 2015 3:36:22 AM Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: A caravan site might have 200 private hookups. We don't want the hookups to be rendered at the same level as the central dump station. Backyard dump stations should render even less prominently, if they are even mapped at all. Let's not forget that tagging isn't the renderer. If a renderer can't dim or hide access=private on such a POI when it's not desirable to display a private sanidump, it's the renderer, not the tagging, that's broken. -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 4:07 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Are there any rendering packages that can be set to render private objects for only a preset list of operator tag values? So, if an association of recreational vehicle owners has waste disposal stations only for registered users, a map generated by that association could show dump stations open to the general public, plus dump stations open to their members, while not showing dump stations open only to members of competing organizations? They all can, assuming operator=* is tagged... ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: A caravan site might have 200 private hookups. We don't want the hookups to be rendered at the same level as the central dump station. Backyard dump stations should render even less prominently, if they are even mapped at all. Let's not forget that tagging isn't the renderer. If a renderer can't dim or hide access=private on such a POI when it's not desirable to display a private sanidump, it's the renderer, not the tagging, that's broken. Let's not forget that humans are mappers. The shared sanidump at the local caravan site might well get tagged access=private. That's something that can be fixed. Or maybe access=private will be used for the per site hookups. Right (or customers). *The cases seem to be:* private backyard dump stations. per-site hookup, available only to registered residents (at a long term residential trailer park or dock). per-site hookup, available only to registered guests at a leisure destination access=private for all three. shared dump station, available only to guests of the destination access=customers shared dump station, available for drive up/boat up use. shared dump station, free. access=yes (or just no access tag at all). *Tagged on:* Way/node As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel station), without a specific position. Probably not as this is almost certainly too vague. As a tagged property of a numbered slot (e.g. sites 1-22 offer per-site hookups). Reasonable, as it's often hard to get high enough imagery to narrow it down further and most people (I'm certainly not and I probably care more than most) aren't likely to break out the theodolite and start doing trig... Each of those cases needs clear tags if we hope mappers to use them consistently. Your suggestions? I think not trying to redefine access=* for just this situation is a start. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:07 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Are there any rendering packages that can be set to render private objects for only a preset list of operator tag values? So, if an association of recreational vehicle owners has waste disposal stations only for registered users, a map generated by that association could show dump stations open to the general public, plus dump stations open to their members, while not showing dump stations open only to members of competing organizations? Yes, that can be be done in almost any of the OSM rendering sytems. Note the tagging proposal on the table uses network= for regional networks of dump stations. A good RV dump station map would use colors or some such: Free == Green Paid, drive up == Blue Plan ahead (join the network first) == Purple Destination only == Gold Backyard Dump Stations == Black A given recreational vehicle owners association could filter the map and eliminate non-matching network locations. See also: http://www.sanidumps.com/maps/index.php?id=18 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
To be clear, I encourage people to get involved in all open proposals, not just the one: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Proposed_features_%22Voting%22 The voting process helps to refine tagging proposals: they often get better during the process. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station
Please consider participating in the wiki voting for: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sanitary_Dump_Station These sites have various names including dump station, dump point, caravan dump station, sanitary station, Elsan disposal point (UK), pumpout, and chemical dump point (CDP). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
