Re: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential
Having received nothing but positive feedback I'll put figuring out how to do this on my to-do list if there are no objections. I may come back for more consultation if I feel it necessary after looking at the technical steps. I won't conduct this edit before Friday at the absolute soonest. We probably need to have a bigger look at cleaning up California landuse imports, there is some weird and wrong stuff there, but that's a wider discussion that doesn't need to stop us from removing the clearly wrong stuff. From: Paul Norman [mailto:penor...@mac.com] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:29 PM To: OpenStreetMap US Talk Subject: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential I've been doing some California landuse and have come across a lot of landuse=residential imported from FMMP which is clearly wrong. The landuse=residential covers entire cities, including commercial, industrial, retail, parks, schools, golf courses, airports, and pretty much anything within city limits. It's hard to be certain because whatever was done doesn't match the documentation at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/California_Farms but it appears that data corresponding to any urban area was imported as landuse=residential. Given that this is a systemic problem with this imported data and the problem originates with the import conversion, I think the best approach to fix it is a mechanical edit. Given that the data is 1.5 years old without being cleaned up, I believe it is the best option. To this end, I propose removing v1 imported ways/multipolygons from FMMP with FMMP_modified=no, FMMP_reviewed=no, landuse=residential, and either description=other land or description=urban land, starting with ways about 500 000 square Mercator meters (exact value subject to change). This would be about 750 areas. There are about 3000 smaller areas that would need dealing with later, but it'd be nice to get the large hard to edit ones cleaned up first. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential
As the original importer of this data, I support Paul's proposal to selectively delete the larger residential areas, which mostly are too broad to be in OSM. I know the farm data has its problems, especially in the earlier counties where I didn't fully realize how to use techniques to fully optimize the data and split it up more first. But there is a lot of good useful data mixed in with the bad data. The strength of the data is the farms and these data are generally high quality. People have expressed to me that the data is hard to edit in the areas that it is too vast, and I do apologize for the extra work this has caused. Originally I left in a lot of what FMMP defined as urban land. These often included a wide variety of features that were split apart a lot better in later imports done. For better or for worse, California is no longer a barren wilderness but has blossomed into a flower full of color and life. I always am open to comments and critisms and working with others to make the data better. Nathan -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 15:28:50 -0700 From: Paul Norman penor...@mac.com To: OpenStreetMap US Talk talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential Message-ID: 005901ce694e$8c1b2d80$a4518880$@mac.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've been doing some California landuse and have come across a lot of landuse=residential imported from FMMP which is clearly wrong. The landuse=residential covers entire cities, including commercial, industrial, retail, parks, schools, golf courses, airports, and pretty much anything within city limits. It's hard to be certain because whatever was done doesn't match the documentation at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/California_Farms but it appears that data corresponding to any urban area was imported as landuse=residential. Given that this is a systemic problem with this imported data and the problem originates with the import conversion, I think the best approach to fix it is a mechanical edit. Given that the data is 1.5 years old without being cleaned up, I believe it is the best option. To this end, I propose removing v1 imported ways/multipolygons from FMMP with FMMP_modified=no, FMMP_reviewed=no, landuse=residential, and either description=other land or description=urban land, starting with ways about 500 000 square Mercator meters (exact value subject to change). This would be about 750 areas. There are about 3000 smaller areas that would need dealing with later, but it'd be nice to get the large hard to edit ones cleaned up first. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: I've been doing some California landuse and have come across a lot of landuse=residential imported from FMMP which is clearly wrong. The landuse=residential covers entire cities, including commercial, industrial, retail, parks, schools, golf courses, airports, and pretty much anything within city limits. Those landuse polygons are so hard to edit, so much clutter, interfere with editors. Ugh. Thanks for dealing with this. But if landuse is going to be in there, I'd prefer a stacked approach. Trying to seam a golf course landuse as a hole in a greater residential land use is a pain. Could we instead have a base landuse (e.g. residential) then simply overlay a more specific land use (e.g. golf course) with a priority or stacking layer, as in roads? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential
From: Bryce Nesbitt [mailto:bry...@obviously.com] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: I've been doing some California landuse and have come across a lot of landuse=residential imported from FMMP which is clearly wrong. The landuse=residential covers entire cities, including commercial, industrial, retail, parks, schools, golf courses, airports, and pretty much anything within city limits. Those landuse polygons are so hard to edit, so much clutter, interfere with editors. Ugh. Thanks for dealing with this. It's worth noting that when these areas are properly mapped there will actually be more ways, but they'll not be encompassing thousands of square km. As an example, the Sutter Buttes region (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.22lon=-121.78zoom=12layers=M) has more ways after I mapped some trees, whereas before it was tagged as just one large meadow. Some of the multipolygons I've been cleaning up have been particularly hard to edit as they cover multiple separate areas. I'd hate to handle them in P2 or iD, fetching a small area from the API returns these giant ways and getting the full MP is troublesome in JOSM which deals better with areas larger than the API can comfortably deal with. When I get more cleanup done I will issue a bunch of re-render requests (/dirty). The region will be less colorful on the map, but the data will actually be right. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential
On 15/giu/2013, at 00:28, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: To this end, I propose removing v1 imported ways/multipolygons from FMMP with FMMP_modified=no, FMMP_reviewed=no, landuse=residential, and either description=other land or description=urban land, starting with ways about 500 000 square Mercator meters (exact value subject to change). remove landuse=residential and add place=* ? cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential
On 15/giu/2013, at 11:13, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: Some of the multipolygons I've been cleaning up have been particularly hard to edit as they cover multiple separate areas. I'd hate to handle them in P2 or iD, fetching a small area from the API returns these giant ways and getting the full MP is troublesome in JOSM which deals better with areas larger than the API can comfortably deal with. IMHO to keep osm easily modifiable and maintainable it is the best to keep complexity as low as possible and to map landuse as atomic as possible. Don't make multipolygons for landuse, or only to share common borders, but don't cut holes or make them overlap. For a detailed mapping I wouldn't include public streets in the landuse, if this seems too much work start with splitting the polygons on bigger streets like primaries etc. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Cleaning up California FMMP residential
I've been doing some California landuse and have come across a lot of landuse=residential imported from FMMP which is clearly wrong. The landuse=residential covers entire cities, including commercial, industrial, retail, parks, schools, golf courses, airports, and pretty much anything within city limits. It's hard to be certain because whatever was done doesn't match the documentation at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/California_Farms but it appears that data corresponding to any urban area was imported as landuse=residential. Given that this is a systemic problem with this imported data and the problem originates with the import conversion, I think the best approach to fix it is a mechanical edit. Given that the data is 1.5 years old without being cleaned up, I believe it is the best option. To this end, I propose removing v1 imported ways/multipolygons from FMMP with FMMP_modified=no, FMMP_reviewed=no, landuse=residential, and either description=other land or description=urban land, starting with ways about 500 000 square Mercator meters (exact value subject to change). This would be about 750 areas. There are about 3000 smaller areas that would need dealing with later, but it'd be nice to get the large hard to edit ones cleaned up first. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
