Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
Kevin Morgan writes: > > > Here is an idea. An additional tag is added called signage. The tag use the following format name;ref;text. Each item is added to the tag if the information is in clued on road signs. The tag has the following sub tags color, icon, description, direction and text. The text sub tag is used to add additional text that is not a part of the name or ref. For example the city a road way leads to often include on a road sign. Description is for descriptive information that needs to be interpreted by a person rather map generation software. Direction is north,south, east,west. There is a separate tagging scheme for destination and directional information. [1] Many major highways have been tagged this way. Hopefully OSM-based navigation software would begin to make use of these tags, because relying solely on names and refs on ways would lead to a lot of missed turns, regardless of the criteria for using the `name` tag. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Exit_Info -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
On Sun, 2016-07-10 at 12:07 -0400, Kevin Morgan wrote: > Here is an idea. An additional tag is added called signage. The tag > use the following format name;ref;text. Each item is added to the tag > if the information is in clued on road signs. The tag has the > following sub tags color, icon, description, direction and text. The > text sub tag is used to add additional text that is not a part of the > name or ref. For example the city a road way leads to often include on > a road sign. Description is for descriptive information that needs to > be interpreted by a person rather map generation software. Direction > is north,south, east,west. I would prefer signed:name, signed:ref, signed:icon, signed:destination, signed:text. This is much more flexible than a tag that has three components that must be supplied in order. -- Shawn K. Quinn ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
I think this would be great for point-based data in order to help others properly determine the correct name=* tag. However, given the circumstances, I tend to also use source:name or name:source (not sure which is correct) citing the state law renaming the road, since that's verifable and canonical and signage frequently is not here. On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Kevin Morgan wrote: > Here is an idea. An additional tag is added called signage. The tag use > the following format name;ref;text. Each item is added to the tag if the > information is in clued on road signs. The tag has the following sub tags > color, icon, description, direction and text. The text sub tag is used to > add additional text that is not a part of the name or ref. For example the > city a road way leads to often include on a road sign. Description is for > descriptive information that needs to be interpreted by a person rather map > generation software. Direction is north,south, east,west. > > -- > Kevin Morgan > morgankev...@fastmail.fm > > > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
Here is an idea. An additional tag is added called signage. The tag use the following format name;ref;text. Each item is added to the tag if the information is in clued on road signs. The tag has the following sub tags color, icon, description, direction and text. The text sub tag is used to add additional text that is not a part of the name or ref. For example the city a road way leads to often include on a road sign. Description is for descriptive information that needs to be interpreted by a person rather map generation software. Direction is north,south, east,west. -- Kevin Morgan morgankev...@fastmail.fm ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > Greg Troxel wrote: > > When converting to garmin format with mkgmap, and I think with osmand, > > I will tend to hear both the name and the ref. That's a big lengthy, but > > there's no real pattern on which to leave out. > > For cycle.travel's directions in the US, I've started post-processing the > name and ref tag to remove duplication. So if name=State Route 315 and > ref=OH 315, for example, it will simply say the road to follow is "OH 315" > rather than "OH 315 State Route 315". But this requires some Lua > string-matching magick which I suspect is outwith the capabilities of > mkgmap. Ideally the name tag would be removed in the OSM data in the first place in such a case. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
Greg Troxel wrote: > When converting to garmin format with mkgmap, and I think with osmand, > I will tend to hear both the name and the ref. That's a big lengthy, but > there's no real pattern on which to leave out. For cycle.travel's directions in the US, I've started post-processing the name and ref tag to remove duplication. So if name=State Route 315 and ref=OH 315, for example, it will simply say the road to follow is "OH 315" rather than "OH 315 State Route 315". But this requires some Lua string-matching magick which I suspect is outwith the capabilities of mkgmap. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Common-names-of-highways-do-not-match-road-signs-tp5877606p5877795.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
Paul Johnson writes: > On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Kevin Morgan > wrote: > >> It is confusing to use open street maps in my area(Central Ohio) for >> driving directions since the "common names" of high ways do not match >> road signs. The common names are used by open map chest for road names. >> For example when turning on to State Route 315 with OpenMapChest loaded >> on my GPS I am directed to turn on to Olentangy Freeway. However the >> tiger name on open street maps is State route 315. Would it make more >> sense to configure driving maps to use tiger names for driving >> directions, change commons names to include the state route number or >> interstate number, or add state route number/ interstate number as a >> different tag? >> > > ref=* isn't name=*, don't tag for the renderer. I'd go with the official > name for name=*. If you're inclined to do something like, name=State Route > 315, you really want ref=OH 315. Not all highways with refs will have > names, not all highways with names have refs. In particularly remote > areas, it's not uncommon for a road to not have a name or a ref. > Conversely, there's highways that might have eight or nine refs and > multiple names. I agree. Around me, there are roads that have both a name and a ref. Some of them are locally called by one, and some by the other, and there is no real pattern. When converting to garmin format with mkgmap, and I think with osmand, I will tend to hear both the name and the ref. That's a big lengthy, but there's no real pattern on which to leave out. Except perhaps if there is a new tag that says whether locals call it by name or ref. I made garmin osm data for someone to upgrade them from old proprietary data, and they commented out the dual name/ref was really helpful compared to how the proprietary data only had one. So I think Kevin should look at the mkgmap rules and end up with a name in garmin format that is basically name+ref. Or he can make it be just ref, if that works for him. But definitely don't adjust the OSM database for this. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
There are many parts here: road signs in the real world, names which might not match those, data in OSM, and presentation by "stacks" (hardware/software/network) of those data. The first two can be captured with proper tagging in the third. If the fourth does not meet your needs, it MAY be that the underlying data are wrong, or need improvement. However, it may also be that you need to reconfigure your viewing method/tool, or use another one altogether which more properly presents you with the data as you wish to see them. Yes, it is important to you that you see the data you wish to see. MORE important is that the data are "there" as they should be. Let's capture what is important with good tagging. SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
Paul Johnson writes: > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Kevin Morgan wrote:It is confusing to use open street maps in my area(Central Ohio) for > driving directions since the "common names" of high ways do not match > road signs. The common names are used by open map chest for road names. > For example when turning on to State Route 315 with OpenMapChest loaded > on my GPS I am directed to turn on to Olentangy Freeway. However the > tiger name on open street maps is State route 315. Would it make more > sense to configure driving maps to use tiger names for driving > directions, change commons names to include the state route number or > interstate number, or add state route number/ interstate number as a > different tag? > > > ref=* isn't name=*, don't tag for the renderer. I'd go with the official name for name=*. If you're inclined to do something like, name=State Route 315, you really want ref=OH 315. You mean `ref=SR 315` and "don't tag for the router". ;-) The established tagging conventions are designed so that any software that needs to say something more sophisticated based on the route designation would parse `network=US:OH` and `ref=315` from the associated route relation and expand it into "State Route 315". You can find out more about tagging Ohio route relations on the wiki. [1] The TIGER name Kevin refers to is a vestige of an import; it isn't customary to tag this way when mapping by hand. Ohio's DOT makes a point of avoiding names for any Interstate or state route on signage, in favor of listing control cities. This is different than, say, Kentucky, which tends to place the highway name next to the route marker on overhead guide signage. But Ohio highways still often have official names which are still known locally, even if they aren't signposted. One example in the Cincinnati area is the freeway portion of SR 562. The official name is "Norwood Lateral Expressway", and Cincinnatians universally refer to it as the "Norwood Lateral", to the point that pretty much no one knows what "SR 562" refers to. It's clear that `official_name=Norwood Lateral Expressway` and `loc_name=Norwood Lateral` would be appropriate. `unsigned_name=Norwood Lateral` is another option. (Incidentally, a nearby highway was exempted from ODOT's policy after being renamed for Ronald Reagan. So the signs do include the road name. [2]) If you take the position that `name` should reflect signage, perhaps because finding signage is more verifiable than asking someone at the nearby gas station, then `name=Norwood Lateral` would clearly be inappropriate. (A part of the world that doesn't signpost this way must look rather bare on the map.) On the other hand, if your reasoning is that `name` should be whatever name is most useful to someone attempting to use OSM for navigation, then "Norwood Lateral" isn't entirely useless for that purpose. (You'll never hear "562" on the traffic report.) [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ohio/Route_relations [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Cross_County_Highway -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Andy Townsend wrote: > I've tended to use "name:signed=no" and/or "ref:signed=no" if there's a > name or ref that is agreed to be "correct" but not useful for navigation. This is where things get *exceedingly* complicated in my region. Signage can be *highly* inconsistent for decades, and sometimes posted incorrectly to begin with (for example, in eastern Broken Arrow, the route Creek Turnpike is signed as Liberty Parkway on the actual turnpike (which is correct, the route is named and not numbered, and it's late 1980s expansion runs on a road whose name doesn't match the name of the route). What's incorrect, though, is that the ramps are signed as "TURNPIKE NORTH" or "TURNPIKE SOUTH", which makes no sense considering that the route runs east/west. And the state legislature declares an emergency at least once per session (and in at least one case since I moved here, actually called an emergency session) to rename dozens of roads, which, since an emergency is declared, OklaDOT has to post it *right now*, quality or consistency be damned...and so it's often only posted where the name changes and none of the intermediate signs until the intermediate signs wear out. And with the ridiculously long names that have been pumped out lately, where the highway has been renamed, OklaDOT (already under absurd budget pressure), usually just goes "screw it" and posts a simple route number trail blazer, removing the old name signs when they wear out at the intermediate locations. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
On 08/07/2016 15:45, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: ... According to the Iowa DOT, it's official name is "Interstate Highway 235" but ... As Paul has already said, that sounds like a "ref" to me, not a "name". If something doesn't have a name, you don't need to create one for OSM... Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Andy Townsend wrote: > > In the UK we've also had a problem with some (generally armchair) mappers > thinking that "all roads must have a name" and "any name is better than no > name" so they've been adding "names" that might have been in a news report > ages ago along the lines of "Greater Chigley and Trumpton Bypass Scheme" > which aren't signed and aren't useful. I tend to move those to > "description". That kind of happens in the US - the main problems are highways and freeways that have been given an official name (for some level of "officialness") but aren't useful. The one that comes to mind is I-235 in Des Moines. According to the Iowa DOT, it's official name is "Interstate Highway 235" but the city of Des Moines named it the "John MacVicar Freeway" in the 1960's (or at least they did the parts that are within the city limits)[1]. But, no one ever refers to it as anything but I-235 and I'd bet that most people don't even know that it's called anything but I-235. There's probably a tiny sign somewhere that lets you know what it's called but the rest of the signage never refers to it. I'm sure that there are similar stories all over. I'm not sure if the "*:signed=no" tags help with this but some scheme for tagging a name that is official on some level but isn't useful for navigation (because it isn't signed etc) would be helpful. [1] http://www.iowadot.gov/autotrails/bridges.aspx?MacVicar%20Freeway -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
I've tended to use "name:signed=no" and/or "ref:signed=no" if there's a name or ref that is agreed to be "correct" but not useful for navigation. It's not used much: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name%3Asigned but it does mean that you can exclude "non-useful names" from maps made with OSM data, either in a slippy map: https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L1762 or on a Garmin. In the UK we've also had a problem with some (generally armchair) mappers thinking that "all roads must have a name" and "any name is better than no name" so they've been adding "names" that might have been in a news report ages ago along the lines of "Greater Chigley and Trumpton Bypass Scheme" which aren't signed and aren't useful. I tend to move those to "description". Cheers, Andy On 08/07/2016 15:07, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: It's been a long time since I've messed much with turning OSM data into Garmin maps, but even back then the main problem was mapping the OSM data model to the Garmin data model, what kind of data to retain, what data to leave out, what data needed to be massaged before being included etc. It's more of an art than a science. If you're having problems, they best thing to do isn't to change the OSM data (unless it's obviously wrong) but to discuss with the OpenMapChest people what sort of changes could be made to their translation process to improve your results. This is the first I've heard of OpenMapChest (but it looks cool, I still have a Garmin GPS that I get out now and then) so I don't know what the best way to contact them is (there's nothing on their web site that provides specific contact information). On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Kevin Morgan wrote: It is confusing to use open street maps in my area(Central Ohio) for driving directions since the "common names" of high ways do not match road signs. The common names are used by open map chest for road names. For example when turning on to State Route 315 with OpenMapChest loaded on my GPS I am directed to turn on to Olentangy Freeway. However the tiger name on open street maps is State route 315. Would it make more sense to configure driving maps to use tiger names for driving directions, change commons names to include the state route number or interstate number, or add state route number/ interstate number as a different tag? -- Kevin Morgan morgankev...@fastmail.fm ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
It's been a long time since I've messed much with turning OSM data into Garmin maps, but even back then the main problem was mapping the OSM data model to the Garmin data model, what kind of data to retain, what data to leave out, what data needed to be massaged before being included etc. It's more of an art than a science. If you're having problems, they best thing to do isn't to change the OSM data (unless it's obviously wrong) but to discuss with the OpenMapChest people what sort of changes could be made to their translation process to improve your results. This is the first I've heard of OpenMapChest (but it looks cool, I still have a Garmin GPS that I get out now and then) so I don't know what the best way to contact them is (there's nothing on their web site that provides specific contact information). On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Kevin Morgan wrote: > It is confusing to use open street maps in my area(Central Ohio) for > driving directions since the "common names" of high ways do not match > road signs. The common names are used by open map chest for road names. > For example when turning on to State Route 315 with OpenMapChest loaded > on my GPS I am directed to turn on to Olentangy Freeway. However the > tiger name on open street maps is State route 315. Would it make more > sense to configure driving maps to use tiger names for driving > directions, change commons names to include the state route number or > interstate number, or add state route number/ interstate number as a > different tag? > > -- > Kevin Morgan > morgankev...@fastmail.fm > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Kevin Morgan wrote: > It is confusing to use open street maps in my area(Central Ohio) for > driving directions since the "common names" of high ways do not match > road signs. The common names are used by open map chest for road names. > For example when turning on to State Route 315 with OpenMapChest loaded > on my GPS I am directed to turn on to Olentangy Freeway. However the > tiger name on open street maps is State route 315. Would it make more > sense to configure driving maps to use tiger names for driving > directions, change commons names to include the state route number or > interstate number, or add state route number/ interstate number as a > different tag? > ref=* isn't name=*, don't tag for the renderer. I'd go with the official name for name=*. If you're inclined to do something like, name=State Route 315, you really want ref=OH 315. Not all highways with refs will have names, not all highways with names have refs. In particularly remote areas, it's not uncommon for a road to not have a name or a ref. Conversely, there's highways that might have eight or nine refs and multiple names. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.
It is confusing to use open street maps in my area(Central Ohio) for driving directions since the "common names" of high ways do not match road signs. The common names are used by open map chest for road names. For example when turning on to State Route 315 with OpenMapChest loaded on my GPS I am directed to turn on to Olentangy Freeway. However the tiger name on open street maps is State route 315. Would it make more sense to configure driving maps to use tiger names for driving directions, change commons names to include the state route number or interstate number, or add state route number/ interstate number as a different tag? -- Kevin Morgan morgankev...@fastmail.fm ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
