Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:35:20 -0600, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: Â Â tag k=ele v=278.9/ By the way, what is the datum for the elevation figure? I don't believe that it is specified explicitly, but the latitude and longitude are in NAD83 so I'm guessing that the elevation is the same. I convert the latitude and longitude to WGS84 using the GDAL Python bindings, I should probably figure out if converting the elevation is as easy as adding a Z component when I do the conversion. Unless I'm missing something, NAD83 is equivalent to WGS84 for the purpose of this source data (and most any practical purpose). They result in the same co-ordinates out to at least the 7th decimal place in degrees (~1 cm). My experience with FCC license data in the past has been that it is usually good to no more than 6 seconds (i.e. less than 3 decimal places in degrees). This is because before the GPS era, license applicants often copied or adjusted to locations reported for other nearby licensees, and I don't think there was a rigorous spec for how accurate they needed to be (or it was something like 1 minute). The AS database is likely similar, though in the ones I worked on, they were accurate to 1 second (and some even to 0.1 second - still only ~0.28 degrees). -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:35:20 -0600, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: Â Â tag k=ele v=278.9/ By the way, what is the datum for the elevation figure? I don't believe that it is specified explicitly, but the latitude and longitude are in NAD83 so I'm guessing that the elevation is the same. I convert the latitude and longitude to WGS84 using the GDAL Python bindings, I should probably figure out if converting the elevation is as easy as adding a Z component when I do the conversion. Unless I'm missing something, NAD83 is equivalent to WGS84 for the purpose of this source data (and most any practical purpose). They result in the same co-ordinates out to at least the 7th decimal place in degrees (~1 cm). You are spot on (or within a meter). Within the continental U.S, NAD83 = WGS84 to within 1 meter. My experience with FCC license data in the past has been that it is usually good to no more than 6 seconds (i.e. less than 3 decimal places in degrees). This is because before the GPS era, license applicants often copied or adjusted to locations reported for other nearby licensees, and I don't think there was a rigorous spec for how accurate they needed to be (or it was something like 1 minute). The AS database is likely similar, though in the ones I worked on, they were accurate to 1 second (and some even to 0.1 second - still only ~0.28 degrees). Agree! -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
Jeff, I have worked with this data before (not for OSM). The data is in the public domain. Your approach sounds sensible to me. Many of the locations are grossly wrong. So it is important to do manual cleanup. By the way, license holders are liable for a fine if the coordinates in this database are wrong. The FCC might be very interested in OSMs feedback! Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: The FCC maintains a database of antenna structures which includes an approximate geographic location. Since this data maintained by the US Government the data should be public domain. The main entry page for the database is here: http://wireless.fcc.gov/antenna/ I'd like to do some semi-automatic imports of this data in my locality. I don't think I'll do mass automated imports for large areas because many antennas have already been mapped and the coordinates provided in the FCC database are only approximate. What I plan on doing is generating a OSM file, loading it into JOSM, and then manually de-duplicate and adjust the coordinates based upon aerial imagery. Here's what a sample looks like (at least in the current iteration of the code). I'm still looking over the data to see if there are any other useful fields that can be pulled out of the FCC database. node lat=41.732833 visible=true version=1 lon=-93.582639 id=-5 tag k=man_made v=tower/ tag k=access v=private/ tag k=tower:type v=communication/ tag k=ele v=278.9/ tag k=height v=37.8/ tag k=fcc:registration_number v=1246498/ tag k=fcc:unique_system_identifier v=2645662/ tag k=operator v=TowerCo Assets LLC/ tag k=website v=http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=2645662/ tag k=source v=Federal Communications Commission Antenna Structure Registration Database/ tag k=addr:housenumber v=210/ tag k=addr:street v=Northeast Delaware Avenue/ tag k=addr:city v=Ankeny/ tag k=addr:state v=IA/ tag k=addr:postcode v=50021/ tag k=addr:country v=US/ /node The fcc:registration_number should be posted on a sign near the tower, which should make it easier to match up ground observations with what is in the database. The fcc:unique_system_identifier is a key into the FCC's database. My script uses the services of http://geocoder.us/ to parse the addresses in the database. If geocoder.us can't parse the address I just stick the unparsed address in a addr:full tag. I'd love to know if I'm being stupid or if there are any improvements people have. Once the script seems fairly stable I'll upload it somewhere and post the location. -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
I have imported the next gen radio stations before. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Next_Generation_Radar_.28NEXRAD.29_Locations http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3350339 On 2/8/10, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote: Jeff, I have worked with this data before (not for OSM). The data is in the public domain. Your approach sounds sensible to me. Many of the locations are grossly wrong. So it is important to do manual cleanup. By the way, license holders are liable for a fine if the coordinates in this database are wrong. The FCC might be very interested in OSMs feedback! Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: The FCC maintains a database of antenna structures which includes an approximate geographic location. Since this data maintained by the US Government the data should be public domain. The main entry page for the database is here: http://wireless.fcc.gov/antenna/ I'd like to do some semi-automatic imports of this data in my locality. I don't think I'll do mass automated imports for large areas because many antennas have already been mapped and the coordinates provided in the FCC database are only approximate. What I plan on doing is generating a OSM file, loading it into JOSM, and then manually de-duplicate and adjust the coordinates based upon aerial imagery. Here's what a sample looks like (at least in the current iteration of the code). I'm still looking over the data to see if there are any other useful fields that can be pulled out of the FCC database. node lat=41.732833 visible=true version=1 lon=-93.582639 id=-5 tag k=man_made v=tower/ tag k=access v=private/ tag k=tower:type v=communication/ tag k=ele v=278.9/ tag k=height v=37.8/ tag k=fcc:registration_number v=1246498/ tag k=fcc:unique_system_identifier v=2645662/ tag k=operator v=TowerCo Assets LLC/ tag k=website v=http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=2645662/ tag k=source v=Federal Communications Commission Antenna Structure Registration Database/ tag k=addr:housenumber v=210/ tag k=addr:street v=Northeast Delaware Avenue/ tag k=addr:city v=Ankeny/ tag k=addr:state v=IA/ tag k=addr:postcode v=50021/ tag k=addr:country v=US/ /node The fcc:registration_number should be posted on a sign near the tower, which should make it easier to match up ground observations with what is in the database. The fcc:unique_system_identifier is a key into the FCC's database. My script uses the services of http://geocoder.us/ to parse the addresses in the database. If geocoder.us can't parse the address I just stick the unparsed address in a addr:full tag. I'd love to know if I'm being stupid or if there are any improvements people have. Once the script seems fairly stable I'll upload it somewhere and post the location. -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
Jeff, One more thing. You may want to be careful about eliminating duplicates. For example, if you have a microwave tower that communicates with two other sites, it will be in the FCC data twice at the same location. To me that is not a duplicate as each record will contain different information about the remote site it communicates with. Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote: Jeff, I have worked with this data before (not for OSM). The data is in the public domain. Your approach sounds sensible to me. Many of the locations are grossly wrong. So it is important to do manual cleanup. By the way, license holders are liable for a fine if the coordinates in this database are wrong. The FCC might be very interested in OSMs feedback! Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: The FCC maintains a database of antenna structures which includes an approximate geographic location. Since this data maintained by the US Government the data should be public domain. The main entry page for the database is here: http://wireless.fcc.gov/antenna/ I'd like to do some semi-automatic imports of this data in my locality. I don't think I'll do mass automated imports for large areas because many antennas have already been mapped and the coordinates provided in the FCC database are only approximate. What I plan on doing is generating a OSM file, loading it into JOSM, and then manually de-duplicate and adjust the coordinates based upon aerial imagery. Here's what a sample looks like (at least in the current iteration of the code). I'm still looking over the data to see if there are any other useful fields that can be pulled out of the FCC database. node lat=41.732833 visible=true version=1 lon=-93.582639 id=-5 tag k=man_made v=tower/ tag k=access v=private/ tag k=tower:type v=communication/ tag k=ele v=278.9/ tag k=height v=37.8/ tag k=fcc:registration_number v=1246498/ tag k=fcc:unique_system_identifier v=2645662/ tag k=operator v=TowerCo Assets LLC/ tag k=website v=http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=2645662/ tag k=source v=Federal Communications Commission Antenna Structure Registration Database/ tag k=addr:housenumber v=210/ tag k=addr:street v=Northeast Delaware Avenue/ tag k=addr:city v=Ankeny/ tag k=addr:state v=IA/ tag k=addr:postcode v=50021/ tag k=addr:country v=US/ /node The fcc:registration_number should be posted on a sign near the tower, which should make it easier to match up ground observations with what is in the database. The fcc:unique_system_identifier is a key into the FCC's database. My script uses the services of http://geocoder.us/ to parse the addresses in the database. If geocoder.us can't parse the address I just stick the unparsed address in a addr:full tag. I'd love to know if I'm being stupid or if there are any improvements people have. Once the script seems fairly stable I'll upload it somewhere and post the location. -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
At 2010-02-08 09:47, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: The FCC maintains a database of antenna structures which includes an approximate geographic location. Since this data maintained by the US Government the data should be public domain. The main entry page for the database is here: http://wireless.fcc.gov/antenna/ ... I've doing some broadcast stations manually as I've come across them when surveying, to try and get a good idea how to model the license and other information, at the same time thinking about a unified schema for other communications services. Here's an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.094622lon=-117.614315zoom=18layers=B000FTF -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: tag k=fcc:unique_system_identifier v=2645662/ tag k=website v= http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=2645662 / I'd say this is redundant, and would lose the url (doesn't seem very permanent anyway). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: tag k=ele v=278.9/ By the way, what is the datum for the elevation figure? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] FCC Antenna Structure Import
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: tag k=ele v=278.9/ By the way, what is the datum for the elevation figure? I don't believe that it is specified explicitly, but the latitude and longitude are in NAD83 so I'm guessing that the elevation is the same. I convert the latitude and longitude to WGS84 using the GDAL Python bindings, I should probably figure out if converting the elevation is as easy as adding a Z component when I do the conversion. -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
