Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
2014-11-18 18:41 GMT+01:00 stevea stevea...@softworkers.com: Martin Koppenhoefer writes: The latter example shouldn't probably be mapped in OSM, as there is literally nothing left now, while the former is still there, it is simply degraded by the water and not visible most of the time due to the lake. Another like your latter example, here in Silicon Valley. Lexington reservoir is where a usually submerged ghost town (one of several of these former small communities around this mountainous area) re-appears during prolonged droughts. nah, that's like my former example (the first one), my second one (which I'd not expect to see in OSM any more) was a former village where now there is just a huge hole (open pit mining), i.e. they dug away everything until depths of several hundred feet, like here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagebau#mediaviewer/File:Tagebau_Garzweiler_Panorama_2005.jpg cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
Martin Koppenhoefer writes: The latter example shouldn't probably be mapped in OSM, as there is literally nothing left now, while the former is still there, it is simply degraded by the water and not visible most of the time due to the lake. Another like your latter example, here in Silicon Valley. Lexington reservoir is where a usually submerged ghost town (one of several of these former small communities around this mountainous area) re-appears during prolonged droughts. In the real world, smeary foundations are vague when and as this happens. In OSM, we tag a node with place=locality and historic=yes in the middle of a moderate sized dammed body of water. Lightly tagged and might I assert correct and effective for what it is (not much). Yet it is (in my local though shared opinion) right where we mean when we use the name Lexington to talk about a place, so that is what its name= tag is. OK! We have former communities (a synonym for ghost town? maybe here but not there, maybe that or not this...) like small ones wiped out by landslides in the 1960s and 1980s. I listen local (others do this, too) and if others know it or use it in conversation (like it might be included in directions, you'll go through Davenport to get there) I think it should be in the map. The place=locality tag does an adequate job of representing this. (When I use the name in conversation, it means here.) Though if it means a populated place, I'll start up the isolated_dwelling, hamlet, village, town... chain. (Can we declare most of those are in? Another topic.) In the USA we have a lot of rail names which are partly/largely historic. Maybe it is people who look at maps a bit more who know this or agree, but some of these (rail, ghost, dissolved-by-a-reservoir...) do stick around in conversation and are handy to describe here. Their names get used, they mean someplace. Improvements welcome. Sometimes two things are not like each other. YMMV. We have free form tagging in OSM, which I like very much as it allows sharpening of syntax to occur. Giving shape to what a set of tags means. Such discussion (sharing) is good. SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
2014-11-14 21:44 GMT+01:00 tshrub my-email-confirmat...@online.de: Am 14.11.2014 19:15, schrieb Jack Burke: What about submerged ones? Do we bother with those? if we stumble over them, why not and it sounds for my as if those towns are still structures of reality yes, another example is this one in Tuscany, It, which is normally submerged in a lake, but will come to light every 10 years or so when the lake is dried out for maintenance of the dam: http://rete.comuni-italiani.it/foto/2009/61975 Situations like this: http://www.gruene-bundestag.de/typo3temp/pics/e6d0cd2a32.jpg are very different, in that nothing of the original landscape (or village) remains (this is open pit mining of lignite in Saxony, Germany, or more precisely a place called Heuersdorf close to the mine Vereinigtes Schleenhain pic taken 09-02-2009). Another image here: http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/17845958 The latter example shouldn't probably be mapped in OSM, as there is literally nothing left now, while the former is still there, it is simply degraded by the water and not visible most of the time due to the lake. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
Hi, Am 17.11.2014 14:21, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2014-11-14 21:44 GMT+01:00 tshrub my-email-confirmat...@online.de mailto:my-email-confirmat...@online.de: Am 14.11.2014 19:15, schrieb Jack Burke: What about submerged ones? Do we bother with those? if we stumble over them, why not and it sounds for my as if those towns are still structures of reality yes, another example is this one in Tuscany, It, which is normally submerged in a lake, but will come to light every 10 years or so when the lake is dried out for maintenance of the dam: http://rete.comuni-italiani.it/foto/2009/61975 whow! What a crasy morbid scenery. Situations like this: http://www.gruene-bundestag.de/typo3temp/pics/e6d0cd2a32.jpg are very different, in that nothing of the original landscape (or village) remains (this is open pit mining of lignite in Saxony, Germany, or more precisely a place called Heuersdorf close to the mine Vereinigtes Schleenhain pic taken 09-02-2009). Another image here: http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/17845958 The latter example shouldn't probably be mapped in OSM, as there is literally nothing left now, while the former is still there, it is simply degraded by the water and not visible most of the time due to the lake. as long as it exists. It could be a *barrier* for navigation. And (any kind of) navigation is, where maps are for. May be it emerges on the map every 10 years ;) No. Here you might add an altitude-tag 'below', notice, etc.? Generally if a structure is gone, I would delete it. But (I think) the data alloyed into OSM's mind. So may be in *future*, you can see a landscape-animation. That would be funny. best, t. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
2014-11-17 15:27 GMT+01:00 tshrub my-email-confirmat...@online.de: Generally if a structure is gone, I would delete it. yes, but it is mostly difficult to say it is gone, because most cases aren't that absolute then this. If you search for Heuersdorf in osm, you'll only get a hit by geonames (SCNR). http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Heuersdorf#map=13/51.1165/12.3976layers=D But (I think) the data alloyed into OSM's mind. So may be in *future*, you can see a landscape-animation. That would be funny. yes, this is what I am also interested in. Have a look at OHM (open history map), a branch of OSM. Unfortunately, as it stands now, you can't tell if something is added to osm because a) there was an error that got corrected b) something was missing (in OSM) and now got inserted c) the object is new in the real world and OSM caught up. d)... this could be modelled with changeset tags of course, but to make sense it would require a lot of people using these tags and being disciplined in structuring their edits into changesets. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
*Regards,* *Hans* On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-11-14 21:44 GMT+01:00 tshrub my-email-confirmat...@online.de: Am 14.11.2014 19:15, schrieb Jack Burke: What about submerged ones? Do we bother with those? if we stumble over them, why not and it sounds for my as if those towns are still structures of reality yes, another example is this one in Tuscany, It, which is normally submerged in a lake, but will come to light every 10 years or so when the lake is dried out for maintenance of the dam: http://rete.comuni-italiani.it/foto/2009/61975 That is awesome! Thanks for sharing Martin! Situations like this: http://www.gruene-bundestag.de/typo3temp/pics/e6d0cd2a32.jpg are very different, in that nothing of the original landscape (or village) remains (this is open pit mining of lignite in Saxony, Germany, or more precisely a place called Heuersdorf close to the mine Vereinigtes Schleenhain pic taken 09-02-2009). Another image here: http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/17845958 The latter example shouldn't probably be mapped in OSM, as there is literally nothing left now, while the former is still there, it is simply degraded by the water and not visible most of the time due to the lake. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
Am 10.11.2014 06:07, schrieb Hans De Kryger: Anyone know if we map ghost towns in osm? Couldn't find anything, not even a tag. *Regards,** * and the key historic? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic it might not become rendered, but the categorie matches? best, t. *Hans* ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
Am 14.11.2014 19:15, schrieb Jack Burke: What about submerged ones? Do we bother with those? if we stumble over them, why not and it sounds for my as if those towns are still structures of reality There are several towns, cemeteries, etc. that ended up under water when Lake Lanier (north of Atlanta) was created. Most of their locations are available with a little investigation (I almost said digging). there are different types of maps, maps, showing historical matters too. You can finde it with http://overpass-turbo.eu/ the key historic implies for me a kind of valence, so such an object might became honoured by society as something valuable. may be best, t. -jack On November 14, 2014 12:00:27 PM EST, tshrub my-email-confirmat...@online.de wrote: Am 10.11.2014 06:07, schrieb Hans De Kryger: Anyone know if we map ghost towns in osm? Couldn't find anything, not even a tag. *Regards,** * and the key historic? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic it might not become rendered, but the categorie matches? best, t. *Hans* Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org*https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us* * Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us * * -- Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us * ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
2014-11-10 6:07 GMT+01:00 Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com: Anyone know if we map ghost towns in osm? Couldn't find anything, not even a tag. I think there should also be a place tag, e.g. place=locality (for a generic uninhabited place), but that is really generic so something more specific (AFAIK yet to introduce) would make sense as well. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Ghost Towns
Anyone know if we map ghost towns in osm? Couldn't find anything, not even a tag. *Regards,* *Hans* ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ghost Towns
Is the abandoned prefix [1] something for you ? or abandoned=village [2] (in German) both tags are rendered on [3] regards m [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:abandoned [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:abandoned%3Dvillage [3] http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/translate/en/index-en.html On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 6:07 AM, Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know if we map ghost towns in osm? Couldn't find anything, not even a tag. *Regards,* *Hans* ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
