Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Kevin Kenny]

On 05/11/2015 08:37 PM, stevea wrote:

Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary
Jim McAndrew  writes:
This is correct, the island is part of NY, but the water is part of 
NJ, when they made the island bigger, the new land was in NJ.


Similar to how Delaware has the entire Delaware Bay in its 
boundaries. They added some fill to the NJ side, and now there's a 
piece of Delaware connected to New Jersey:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/39.6142/-75.5635
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Point


Might explain how OpenCycleMap is off in spots at z=9 with state names 
at Pennsylvania/Maryland/Delaware (Delaware is a long way from 
Cumberland).  I'm not aware of the history or explanation of that, so 
perhaps I could have better read up on bug reports, Andy (Allan).


I suspect that what's messing that up is the small spit of New Jersey 
north and west of Oldmans Creek.
http://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/karl.html?la=39.7999&lo=-75.3995&z=13 
shows it in enough detail to show how lettering on the boundary would be 
tricky to render.


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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[stevea]

Jim McAndrew  writes:
This is correct, the island is part of NY, but the water is part of 
NJ, when they made the island bigger, the new land was in NJ.


Similar to how Delaware has the entire Delaware Bay in its 
boundaries. They added some fill to the NJ side, and now there's a 
piece of Delaware connected to New Jersey:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/39.6142/-75.5635
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Point


Might explain how OpenCycleMap is off in spots at z=9 with state 
names at Pennsylvania/Maryland/Delaware (Delaware is a long way from 
Cumberland).  I'm not aware of the history or explanation of that, so 
perhaps I could have better read up on bug reports, Andy (Allan).


There are little messes in our map.  Yet, we do achieve harmony and 
consensus.  Even with all the skipping of that middle there, I 
continue to find OSM a most amazing project.


(Like, the way Bryce just stood up to help out now:  nice).

Stiching up admin_level=4 boundaries, ah, yup.  Quite a map we're 
knitting here.


SteveA
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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 05/10/2015 06:35 PM, Luis Villa wrote:
> Possibly useful context:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_v._New_York

That's one of the things that makes me love this hobby/profession so
much. Quirks!

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Richard Welty]

On 5/11/15 11:55 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> I agree, the historical boundary should be removed, but we need to be
> sure to show what's in what state. It's quite a little mess.
>
>
i think the only problem is that the word historical is there. deleting
the tags on the way would be sufficient. the way itself is shared by a
lot of boundary relations and should not be removed.

i have it loaded up in JOSM right now, but will refrain from uploading
changes for the moment. i'll pull the trigger if there is a consensus.

richard

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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Serge Wroclawski]

I agree, the historical boundary should be removed, but we need to be
sure to show what's in what state. It's quite a little mess.

- Serge

On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>puzzled about
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37573502#map=18/40.69986/-74.03910
>
> is this really part of today's political boundary, then "(historical)"
> should perhaps be removed from the name. And is there any significance
> to the funny shape (an owl sitting on a branch?) or should it rather be
> aligned with the coastline?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Jim McAndrew]

This is correct, the island is part of NY, but the water is part of NJ,
when they made the island bigger, the new land was in NJ.

Similar to how Delaware has the entire Delaware Bay in its boundaries. They
added some fill to the NJ side, and now there's a piece of Delaware
connected to New Jersey:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/39.6142/-75.5635
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Point


On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Luis Villa  wrote:

> Possibly useful context:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_v._New_York
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 9:30 AM Richard Welty 
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/10/15 11:57 AM, Richard Welty wrote:
>> > On 5/10/15 11:31 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >>puzzled about
>> >>
>> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37573502#map=18/40.69986/-74.03910
>> >>
>> >> is this really part of today's political boundary, then "(historical)"
>> >> should perhaps be removed from the name. And is there any significance
>> >> to the funny shape (an owl sitting on a branch?) or should it rather be
>> >> aligned with the coastline?
>> >>
>> > this looks like a carve out, a tiny enclave of NYS/NYC surrounded by
>> > New Jersey. i'll look at the newer TIGER data in a little bit and see
>> > what i can see there.
>> now that i have thought about it, Ellis Island is mostly fill. the
>> political
>> boundary likely matches the original waterline of the island and it
>> was simply never changed. as it was operated by the Federal government,
>> there was probably little motivation to do so.
>>
>> richard
>>
>> --
>> rwe...@averillpark.net
>>  Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
>>  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
>>  Java - Web Applications - Search
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Luis Villa]

Possibly useful context:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_v._New_York

On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 9:30 AM Richard Welty 
wrote:

> On 5/10/15 11:57 AM, Richard Welty wrote:
> > On 5/10/15 11:31 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>puzzled about
> >>
> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37573502#map=18/40.69986/-74.03910
> >>
> >> is this really part of today's political boundary, then "(historical)"
> >> should perhaps be removed from the name. And is there any significance
> >> to the funny shape (an owl sitting on a branch?) or should it rather be
> >> aligned with the coastline?
> >>
> > this looks like a carve out, a tiny enclave of NYS/NYC surrounded by
> > New Jersey. i'll look at the newer TIGER data in a little bit and see
> > what i can see there.
> now that i have thought about it, Ellis Island is mostly fill. the
> political
> boundary likely matches the original waterline of the island and it
> was simply never changed. as it was operated by the Federal government,
> there was probably little motivation to do so.
>
> richard
>
> --
> rwe...@averillpark.net
>  Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
>  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
>  Java - Web Applications - Search
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Richard Welty]

On 5/10/15 11:57 AM, Richard Welty wrote:
> On 5/10/15 11:31 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>puzzled about
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37573502#map=18/40.69986/-74.03910
>>
>> is this really part of today's political boundary, then "(historical)"
>> should perhaps be removed from the name. And is there any significance
>> to the funny shape (an owl sitting on a branch?) or should it rather be
>> aligned with the coastline?
>>
> this looks like a carve out, a tiny enclave of NYS/NYC surrounded by
> New Jersey. i'll look at the newer TIGER data in a little bit and see
> what i can see there.
now that i have thought about it, Ellis Island is mostly fill. the political
boundary likely matches the original waterline of the island and it
was simply never changed. as it was operated by the Federal government,
there was probably little motivation to do so.

richard

-- 
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 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
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Re: [Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Richard Welty]

On 5/10/15 11:31 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
>
>puzzled about
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37573502#map=18/40.69986/-74.03910
>
> is this really part of today's political boundary, then "(historical)"
> should perhaps be removed from the name. And is there any significance
> to the funny shape (an owl sitting on a branch?) or should it rather be
> aligned with the coastline?
>
this looks like a carve out, a tiny enclave of NYS/NYC surrounded by
New Jersey. i'll look at the newer TIGER data in a little bit and see
what i can see there.

richard

-- 
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search




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[Talk-us] New York, Ellis Island Boundary

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

   puzzled about

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37573502#map=18/40.69986/-74.03910

is this really part of today's political boundary, then "(historical)"
should perhaps be removed from the name. And is there any significance
to the funny shape (an owl sitting on a branch?) or should it rather be
aligned with the coastline?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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