Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-05 Thread Charlotte Wolter 

Thanks, Bill,

Very interesting. Certainly there are other such local 
"strategies" to deal with long driveways. There are other local 
customs that mappers should know, such as that state roads in some 
states have SR before the number, not the state abbreviation I've 
made that mistake myself here in California and certainly haven't 
corrected them all.
It would be nice if there were a way to pop up some kind of 
warning about local anomalies for mappers. Maybe that is something 
for the future.


Charlotte


At 02:15 PM 4/4/2017, you wrote:
There are jurisdictions where named driveways are required if the 
house is out of sight of the street.
E.g. Cumberland Co. Maine, the newishcountywide E911 dispatch 
requires street names be unique across county and that houses not 
within sight of the road have a named PVT WAY that becomes their 
official address for E911. (Unclear how postoffice and UPS feel about that.)
Requiring a clear number sign at the street might have been 
sufficient but they've chosen to mandate identical PVT WAY signage instead.

( looks like none of those have made it into  OSM yet.)


Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady



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Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-05 Thread OSM Volunteer stevea 
Chiming in my +1 to everything recently said here about OSM's TIGER data (and 
cats and such) in the USA.

I'd like to remind everybody that most RAIL data in the USA are largely from 
that same TIGER import.  Since about 2014, USA rail data have improved to a 
moderate degree, though spottily, especially with the advent of OpenRailwayMap 
and OpenPublicTransportMap rendering overlays.  Somewhat using a 
state-at-a-time approach (Alaska, California, Montana, New Mexico...), we have 
been improving rail data as we document how in our wikis.  To get started in 
YOUR state, please take a look at 
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States_railways and begin to fall 
down the rabbit hole.  Rail mapping is fun!

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-05 Thread Mike N 

On 4/5/2017 3:10 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2006-November/002561.html
for details.

(I chuckled when I read that message which begins with a complaint about
the mailing lists.)


  I chuckled when I read that the first problems involved developing 
robust recoverable upload code.   We can still use that to pounce on 
anyone who uploads an import using JOSM and experiences a network 
hiccup.  "A Ha - you have 1734 duplicate nodes and 378 duplicate ways... 
bad import"


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Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-05 Thread Frederik Ramm 
Hi,

On 04/04/17 23:17, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> There's a lot that's wrong with the import systemically, and a lot
> that's wrong with it locally. Around here, a lot of TIGER ways are
> outright hallucinations, and I'm not afraid to delete or edit them. In
> private emails, I've joked about all the "TIGER [excrement]" in the
> database

It was before my time, but the TIGER data we have now is already the 2nd
incarnation; the very first TIGER import must have been so bad that it
was deleted completely. See
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2006-November/002561.html
for details.

(I chuckled when I read that message which begins with a complaint about
the mailing lists.)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-04 Thread Shawn K. Quinn 
On 04/04/2017 04:17 PM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> In private emails, I've joked about all the "TIGER [excrement]" in the
> database, and referred to the process of making it more closely match
> reality as, "cleaning the cat box."

I've been known to refer to "TIGER barf" in my changeset comments. It's
the first thing that came to my mind, as cats (usually) cover their
excrement in the wild. Though, I can agree that sometimes, cleaning
these up on the map can be about as odious and tedious as "cleaning the
cat box" in real life...

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-04 Thread Kevin Kenny 
On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Charlotte Wolter 
wrote:

> I wrote to TIGER about the false "driveways" issue that I
> discovered, and got a reply from Anne O'Connor of TUGER. Apparently it is a
> known issue, but they would like to hear about any others that we may find.
>
>
For what it's worth, a number of our issues are fixed in current versions
of TIGER. The TIGER import was a one-time affair, and for various good and
bad reasons, is unlikely to be repeated. It provided OSM with an initial
map in the US, later revealed to be of questionable quality. Whether that
actually helped build an OSM community is a controversial topic. Some
believe that the presence of so much almost-correct data is an impediment
to recruiting mappers, others that it is a help. (I suspect it depends on
whether your friends see an empty area and say, "sure, I'll help fill it,"
or whether they say instead, "why should I bother with this? There's
nothing there!")

In any case, trying to fix the problem "upstream" is unlikely to help. From
the perspective of OSM, the TIGER import is what it is, and of course needs
fixing, but we and the GIS people at the Census Bureau have gone our
separate ways.

I post this message mostly because I know that as an OSM newbie, I saw all
the TIGER data and (partly because of all the gobbledygook that looked like
foreign database keys) thought of it as being from an authoritative source.
I was afraid to edit even obvious mistakes because I mistakenly thought
that was likely to interfere with conflating official updates. How wrong I
was! Now, I have no compunctions at all about deleting objects that came in
from TIGER or making corrections to them. There's a lot that's wrong with
the import systemically, and a lot that's wrong with it locally. Around
here, a lot of TIGER ways are outright hallucinations, and I'm not afraid
to delete or edit them. In private emails, I've joked about all the "TIGER
[excrement]" in the database, and referred to the process of making it more
closely match reality as, "cleaning the cat box."

It was surely much better than nothing, and importing it may well have been
the right move at the time. But it was the start of a long process of
building the map, not the end of it, and a significant fraction of OSM'ers
believe that it was a bad idea in the first place. Actual human mappers
have put in enough effort correcting it that further bulk updates from
newer versions of TIGER would be regarded as vandalism.
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Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-04 Thread Bill Ricker 
There are jurisdictions where named driveways are required if the house is
out of sight of the street.

 E.g. Cumberland Co. Maine, the newishcountywide E911 dispatch requires
street names be unique across county and that houses not within sight of
the road have a named PVT WAY that becomes their official address for E911.
(Unclear how postoffice andUPS feel about that.)
Requiring a clear number sign at the street might have been sufficient but
they've chosen to mandate identical PVT WAY signage instead.

( looks like none of those have made it into  OSM yet.)
​
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[Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways

2017-04-04 Thread Charlotte Wolter 

Folks,

I wrote to TIGER about the false "driveways" issue that I 
discovered, and got a reply from Anne O'Connor of TUGER. Apparently 
it is a known issue, but they would like to hear about any others 
that we may find.


Charlotte


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