Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Natfoot natf...@gmail.com wrote: The inherent problem with ferry routes is that they have a schedule. Routers can't then tell their users how long it is going to take without that data. As far as I know we don't have schedule capability within OSM and it is something that the routers have not pulled not even the big G. The big G is listing the route as being Mon-Sun: 7 AM–11:30 PM · every 60 min This is a safe comment even though the schedules change seasonally I agree. However, it would be nice to have it show the route. Somehow we can route via bus using GTFS. I wonder if ferry routes have a similar spec? There's nothing that says ferries can't use GTFS. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
The inherent problem with ferry routes is that they have a schedule. Routers can't then tell their users how long it is going to take without that data. As far as I know we don't have schedule capability within OSM and it is something that the routers have not pulled not even the big G. The big G is listing the route as being Mon-Sun: 7 AM–11:30 PM · every 60 min This is a safe comment even though the schedules change seasonally. Nathan P email: natf...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Natfoot natf...@gmail.com wrote: When talking to the Scout team this summer it was mentioned as an issue. Also Scout wont route across access roads and if there is an access road leading up to the dock/portal then no route. you will notice that it is listed as primary road in Edmonds and Kingston. It would appear that the router should use a ferry route. However, a check of both osrm and mapquest would indicate otherwise. The problem is I don't know if that is a routing engine problem, i.e. it won't use a ferry route, or a tagging problem. The tests were done using http://jsrouting.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
Graphhopper doesn't have the problem. It could be that other routers are using outdated data that did indeed have a tagging problem. https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=47.811656%2C-122.379627point=47.809696%2C-122.528286layer=Lyrk Harald. On Thu Jan 01 2015 at 10:20:45 AM Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Natfoot natf...@gmail.com wrote: When talking to the Scout team this summer it was mentioned as an issue. Also Scout wont route across access roads and if there is an access road leading up to the dock/portal then no route. you will notice that it is listed as primary road in Edmonds and Kingston. It would appear that the router should use a ferry route. However, a check of both osrm and mapquest would indicate otherwise. The problem is I don't know if that is a routing engine problem, i.e. it won't use a ferry route, or a tagging problem. The tests were done using http://jsrouting.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
On 1/1/15 1:55 PM, Clifford Snow wrote: On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Natfoot natf...@gmail.com mailto:natf...@gmail.com wrote: The inherent problem with ferry routes is that they have a schedule. Routers can't then tell their users how long it is going to take without that data. As far as I know we don't have schedule capability within OSM and it is something that the routers have not pulled not even the big G. The big G is listing the route as being Mon-Sun: 7 AM–11:30 PM · every 60 min This is a safe comment even though the schedules change seasonally I agree. However, it would be nice to have it show the route. Somehow we can route via bus using GTFS. I wonder if ferry routes have a similar spec? and there are places (for example, Ocracoke Island on the outer banks) which are only accessible via ferry and thus can't be routed to by apps that don't handle ferries. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
On 1/1/15 12:13 PM, Harald Kliems wrote: Graphhopper doesn't have the problem. It could be that other routers are using outdated data that did indeed have a tagging problem. https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=47.811656%2C-122.379627point=47.809696%2C-122.528286layer=Lyrk in the long run, we should consider whether there should be tagging extensions to cover access routes that should be routed, or perhaps a more nuanced approach to access roads from routers. i have a couple of recent cases where OSM based routing has produced bad results because of these sorts of issues; some require tagging extensions and others might be addressed by adding specific criteria to routers as to when service roads are permissible (e.g. ferry approaches or at route endpoints) richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Natfoot natf...@gmail.com wrote: The inherent problem with ferry routes is that they have a schedule. Routers can't then tell their users how long it is going to take without that data. As far as I know we don't have schedule capability within OSM and it is something that the routers have not pulled not even the big G. The big G is listing the route as being Mon-Sun: 7 AM–11:30 PM · every 60 min This is a safe comment even though the schedules change seasonally I agree. However, it would be nice to have it show the route. Somehow we can route via bus using GTFS. I wonder if ferry routes have a similar spec? The Scout app doesn't appear to use ferries, although I need to check options. There may be a flag preset not to use ferries. -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Natfoot natf...@gmail.com wrote: When talking to the Scout team this summer it was mentioned as an issue. Also Scout wont route across access roads and if there is an access road leading up to the dock/portal then no route. you will notice that it is listed as primary road in Edmonds and Kingston. It would appear that the router should use a ferry route. However, a check of both osrm and mapquest would indicate otherwise. The problem is I don't know if that is a routing engine problem, i.e. it won't use a ferry route, or a tagging problem. The tests were done using http://jsrouting.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
GTFS works fine for ferries already. Many do publish the data. d. On Jan 1, 2015, at 10:55, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I agree. However, it would be nice to have it show the route. Somehow we can route via bus using GTFS. I wonder if ferry routes have a similar spec? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org wrote: GTFS works fine for ferries already. Many do publish the data. I just checked, Washington State Ferries does use GTFS [1]. I originally posted this message because of a Scout note in OSM. My sense is the problem is Scout's. I'm guessing Scout employees are all taking the day off. I'll close the note with a comment that it is a scout problem. http://www.gtfs-data-exchange.com/agency/washington-state-ferries/ -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
A Scout note, http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/294192 complains of routing problems when a ferry is required. A user of the OSM-based Scout app reported the following possible map error: will not use ferry route. avoid ferry not checked. Is that a problem limited to Scout, or is there something we should be checking for? BTW - I've taken this ferry from Edmonds to Kingston, WA a number of times. It is a great trip during nice weather. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
On 1/1/15 1:39 AM, Clifford Snow wrote: A Scout note, http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/294192 complains of routing problems when a ferry is required. A user of the OSM-based Scout app reported the following possible map error: will not use ferry route. avoid ferry not checked. Is that a problem limited to Scout, or is there something we should be checking for? BTW - I've taken this ferry from Edmonds to Kingston, WA a number of times. It is a great trip during nice weather. the one routing issue i'm familiar with is that frequently ferry access uses highway=service, and some routing applications try to avoid service roads as much as possible. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries
Clifford, When talking to the Scout team this summer it was mentioned as an issue. Also Scout wont route across access roads and if there is an access road leading up to the dock/portal then no route. you will notice that it is listed as primary road in Edmonds and Kingston. Nathan P On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: A Scout note, http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/294192 complains of routing problems when a ferry is required. A user of the OSM-based Scout app reported the following possible map error: will not use ferry route. avoid ferry not checked. Is that a problem limited to Scout, or is there something we should be checking for? BTW - I've taken this ferry from Edmonds to Kingston, WA a number of times. It is a great trip during nice weather. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
