Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
It intersects with a major road atonly one end. After the discussion, I'm sticking with my original primary road code. Maybe some day they will finish it, but right now it's most just a two-lane highway. We'll see if the next iteration of Bing photos shows that they are working on it again. At this point, they don't seem to be doing anything to finish the work that was started. Charlotte At 05:47 PM 9/14/2012, you wrote: On Sep 14, 2012 7:06 PM, Charlotte Wolter mailto:techl...@techlady.comtechl...@techlady.com wrote:         I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16         It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop.         So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? Probably. Without looking at aerial photography, I'd say it sounds like a super-2, or at least a two-lane expressway; the tags expressway=yes an/or motorroad=yes might be applicable. Also, if the ends of this improved section are near other major roads, then highway=trunk might make sense. Sorry for the uncertain reply but it's not convenient to closely inspect these things on my phone. Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net writes: At 2012-09-15 16:05, Greg Troxel wrote: Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com writes: I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16 It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop. So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? My take is: motorway: truly meets interstate specs for extended periods - multi lane, no at-grade intersections. I would not tag something as motorway when it's only sometimes motorway unless it's ~10 miles long. US101 near Ventura, CA, goes back and forth among freeway/primary/trunk over relatively short stretches. There are, however, Begin Freeway and End Freeway signs that tell you exactly which sections are motorway. This might be a DOT requirement. That sounds like a perfect example of the most difficult case. SR-1 south of Oxnard is similar. Here's the location of such a sign going northbound: 34.112471°, -119.081681° Where I'm coming from is that if a stretch of road that is 1 mile long is separated and has no at-grade intersections, that doesn't make it feel like a motorway/interstate, because part of the essence of interstate is that one can drive for extended periods with the expectation of not encountering an at-grade intersection. So the question of whether a 1-mile section of road meets specs is different From whether that 1-mile section is part of a motorway. Clearly one shouldn't tag sections as motorway up to intersections and then make the intersections trunk. So a motorway really needs at least some grade-separated interchanges. There's an alternative view, which is to follow begin/end freeway (not a federal thing; I don't see those in Massachusetts) for whatever lengths, and adjust the renderer to demote to trunk if they are short. But I see the motorway tag as representing the cartographer's judgement as what should be shown to the user as being a motorway, and as a road user I don't think a mile or two section can *be* a motorway, even if that section meets specs. pgpKU0H7qTZDy.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com writes: I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16 It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop. So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? My take is: motorway: truly meets interstate specs for extended periods - multi lane, no at-grade intersections. I would not tag something as motorway when it's only sometimes motorway unless it's ~10 miles long. primary: US highway or road of equivalent social importance. No other requirements trunk: more important than primary, and mostly divided, or mostly not having at-grade intersections, kind of high speed. can be jersey barriers with at-grade intersections only every mile where it's posted 50 mph+. can be interstate-class except with one lane.. So, if this feels like mostly a busy road where you can only go 30 with stores along it, tag it primary. if it feels like you can drive 60 in a 50 zone and that's ok, and at-grade intersections are rare, tag it trunk. If the part you want to tag trunk is less than say two miles, don't do it and leave it primary. For a reasonable example, look at route 2 in massachusetts. culturally, MA-2 is as important as US 20 (at least for us north-half residents :-), and sometimes it's motorway, sometimes trunk, and sometimes just primary. pgpLACo1Pr4dr.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: I would not tag something as motorway when it's only sometimes motorway unless it's ~10 miles long. Going off this: I remember a discussion earlier about this sort of thing. Someone (I forgot who) said that the Is this a freeway? question should be asked about every 5-10 miles. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
At 2012-09-15 16:05, Greg Troxel wrote: Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com writes: I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16 It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop. So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? My take is: motorway: truly meets interstate specs for extended periods - multi lane, no at-grade intersections. I would not tag something as motorway when it's only sometimes motorway unless it's ~10 miles long. US101 near Ventura, CA, goes back and forth among freeway/primary/trunk over relatively short stretches. There are, however, Begin Freeway and End Freeway signs that tell you exactly which sections are motorway. This might be a DOT requirement. SR-1 south of Oxnard is similar. Here's the location of such a sign going northbound: 34.112471°, -119.081681° -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
Clay Smalley claysmal...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: I would not tag something as motorway when it's only sometimes motorway unless it's ~10 miles long. Going off this: I remember a discussion earlier about this sort of thing. Someone (I forgot who) said that the Is this a freeway? question should be asked about every 5-10 miles. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us There is one ring-road route in Nashville, Briley Parkway, that is partly limited-access road of motorway quality, and part ordinary street with traffic lights, intersecting driveways, and the like. About half of the ordinary-street section is only two lanes wide. Just to add to the confusion, some of the streets that were joined together to complete the ring kept their original names, meaning that the name changes every two or three miles. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
Hello, I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16 It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop. So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-09-14 18:02, Charlotte Wolter wrote: Hello, I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16 It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop. So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? A similar situation with US 20 in Freeport, IL is tagged trunk, and I'd go with that here as well, though primary is not an incorrect choice. IDOT has been building these staged bypasses for years now; they start out 2 lanes, but with 4 lanes' worth of ROW reserved for future construction of an at-grade expressway (and overpasses sized to match, as you noted). Motorway would be an incorrect choice, in my opinion. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQU9UZAAoJELiB5WubzHR/zO8P/3zncIGMEeQggpw4i25dpmbn 3tAt0pdARLdBjHbjaAOgkay+0Gu0BP4fe6O7Rn18bwwTZ6Ot9j/gJaAa+9Q1hVqj /HPwazwt6OhxsKw5mHKYk35BnZMaCRindYhHsYp2EkOGxD6c3q7w8j9B07L+I7s5 aIEINMynSjoy8hNs8/27BSQTxupsqNRY6/8PY7BBCXT3fUKyvazSBhhjLmAZBti1 il7bBUFAB9/xZDz+HslJJyqAj6AvnhkBXXFctyzTuawy3lfovMqDU90bhYmSoBm4 FsR3IzIC2SDe9Ja9wFYfgue+g9/rrSwBJaEI/Nq8ON3uL3BaNXPLeULLNCFRol9p ns+T51xLyTJWcfQEbUpBwRE+b4BfwN+W/Vh3M/XLtYr0Y7o88QrCDZ/5lwmHaQZn mCzK2TWMZZ1qzAyplaAmc8pY4/sYhsczKh30IWAhssfAew9rtSLip6AoFAZqWjwa Xr4/EcC79PS9eowlr1tgTwczgibiP05rk3Npm7uask23qO/bYxfRvKkNl3S03xF/ btmidRqpDzOpVr6wMT+Z2oL8jz4iRI39uGqLG3lYloe9dnFYV4AzXgmelBnjlX++ H0SncBXrFWfIPlScXQEsrpVOY83zGieTPEhXDgu1TO3Z/yogDHrAP2sKnbeTv3x6 lIQTmv/U1zslxMG4MGGm =3HaL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
