Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Nathan Hartley]

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 11:22 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer
> available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free
> hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your
> help finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM.
>


I have seen where many area specific Wiki pages will have a "potential
source of import data" section. Recently, I ran across a Wiki page that
attempted to catalog this type of information, for locations around the
world, in one place.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources


Here are two sites that I know about, which have also been added to the
Potential_Datasources page:

The State of Michigan
http://gis.midnr.opendata.arcgis.com/

North Country National Scenic Trail
https://gis-nct.opendata.arcgis.com/
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data (Brian May)

[Tom Lee]

> If a billionaire is reading this list and wants to put their money
> towards doing a lot of public good and good for the economy in general
> (data is the new oil), they could make the sky rain lawyers!

I share your enthusiasm for billionaires with idiosyncratic obsessions (who
doesn't like Batman?) and think this would be a great project.

But let me also add that there's a lot of work we non-billionaires (and
even non-lawyers) can do to make this scenario more likely. Going through
the tedious process of FOIAing, appealing the denial, then FOIAing for the
emails about the process, then publishing everything in a blog post --
these steps set the stage for a larger action (if appropriate) and
typically have to be done first. Actual practitioners are the ones in the
best position to know what data is needed and where the rationale for
keeping it locked up is most absurd. Not every one of these efforts will
end in success, but it's a necessary start.

I'll add that folks who do undertake such an effort might want to check out
MuckRock, which is a great resource for submitting and sharing FOIAs. And
of course Carl Malamud's work at public.resource.org is an inspiration on
this front, though I suspect he's so much on his plate that it might be
hard to get him interested in geodata.

Tom
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Brian May]

On 8/15/2018 1:47 AM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:

Again, one of the most important things that might be said (in talk-us) about "State Open 
Data" is that there are at least fifty different sets of rules.  "Check your state laws 
and county practices" remains excellent advice.  Yes, it can be complex, but if in a state 
like California, we're in pretty good shape.  In New York, it's different.  Et cetera (48 different 
other ways).

Documenting state-by-state "rules" and legal state-data copyright 
practices-as-they-apply-to-our-ODbL could turn into a WikiProject.  (And then traffic in this 
mailing list might diminish yet more).  Yet, it's a rapidly moving topic and notice how everyone is 
so careful to say "I'm not a lawyer, but..." and gets the bright idea that OSM's 
seriously-busy Legal Working Group might spend time double-checking things, which simply is not 
practical.  So I don't see how a wiki could realistically keep up in real-time, even with a team of 
well-paid top lawyers, unless they fall from the sky like rain and I don't see that in tomorrow 
morning's forecast.

I don't know a good solution to this except to keep open good dialog, even if it means we repeat 
ourselves.  This isn't like a hard math problem that got solved a few centuries ago, like orbital 
mechanics.  It is a very up-to-the-minute legal edge that we walk here, out on the hairy precipice 
of "do I or don't I enter these data?"  "Is this a good idea or could it jeopardize 
the project?"

We can be both bold and careful, but it isn't easy.  Ask.  Dialog.  Read.  
Discuss.  It is getting better.

SteveA
California


All good points.

If a billionaire is reading this list and wants to put their money 
towards doing a lot of public good and good for the economy in general 
(data is the new oil), they could make the sky rain lawyers!  Here's an 
idea for said billionaire: Create or fund an existing non-profit that 
hires a band of lawyers to roam the country and challenge these public 
records laws that put restrictions on public data, etc. And lobby 
legislatures to change the laws to make the public records more open to 
the public and free from copyright and exorbitant fees. There are a lot 
of individual organizations and people working on changing the current 
situation in their corner of the world, but the effort could use more 
organized and sustained activity to speed up the process of opening up 
data around the country. Its also an economic equality issue. I'm sure 
many of the biggest (and boldest) corporations already have their hands 
on data like parcels and tax records for every county in the US, even 
where data is supposedly copyrighted and sold for tens of thousands of 
dollars per county. So, like you said Steve, until that magical 
billionaire appears to save the day for public records laws, we just 
need to just keep the issue alive by discussing, sharing info, 
educating, etc.


Brian


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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

Again, one of the most important things that might be said (in talk-us) about 
"State Open Data" is that there are at least fifty different sets of rules.  
"Check your state laws and county practices" remains excellent advice.  Yes, it 
can be complex, but if in a state like California, we're in pretty good shape.  
In New York, it's different.  Et cetera (48 different other ways).

Documenting state-by-state "rules" and legal state-data copyright 
practices-as-they-apply-to-our-ODbL could turn into a WikiProject.  (And then 
traffic in this mailing list might diminish yet more).  Yet, it's a rapidly 
moving topic and notice how everyone is so careful to say "I'm not a lawyer, 
but..." and gets the bright idea that OSM's seriously-busy Legal Working Group 
might spend time double-checking things, which simply is not practical.  So I 
don't see how a wiki could realistically keep up in real-time, even with a team 
of well-paid top lawyers, unless they fall from the sky like rain and I don't 
see that in tomorrow morning's forecast.

I don't know a good solution to this except to keep open good dialog, even if 
it means we repeat ourselves.  This isn't like a hard math problem that got 
solved a few centuries ago, like orbital mechanics.  It is a very 
up-to-the-minute legal edge that we walk here, out on the hairy precipice of 
"do I or don't I enter these data?"  "Is this a good idea or could it 
jeopardize the project?"

We can be both bold and careful, but it isn't easy.  Ask.  Dialog.  Read.  
Discuss.  It is getting better.

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Kevin Kenny]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 4:31 PM Brian May  wrote:
> This may have been stated already, but just wanted to make it clear -
> State laws on public records filter down through all regional and local
> governments operating within the state. So if state law doesn't
> explicitly give a county permission to copyright data, and the county
> tries to assert copyright, the county is violating state law. If you can
> get a hold of the data, you can ignore whatever the county says. If you
> can't get the data and must get it from the agency through formal
> channels, you need to send a letter and explain the situation. If they
> don't respond favorably, try the state Attorney General's office. In
> Florida, the Attorney General weighed in on this issue in the mid-2000s
> because counties weren't getting the message after a court case
> clarified the that public records could not be copyrighted or sold at
> exorbitant prices in Florida for "cost recovery". At that time the
> Attorney General's office had an open records advocate that would help
> educate, communicate, and mediate with local governments about public
> records laws.

You oversimplify.

I won't go through the complex history again - but:

New York's open records law is silent about a county's using copyright
to restrict the distribution of records that it is required to supply
free of charge. The US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit held
that the state law's silence on the matter means that counties may
assert copyright on their work product, and explicitly refused to
accord deference to an advisory opinion from the state to the
contrary. Since Federal law governs on matters of copyright, it is now
settled that counties own their copyrights. The legislature could
amend the Freedom of Information Law to require that counties offer a
general public license or even  abrogate their copyrights, but it has
not done so.

This leads to the bizarre legal outcome where you can demand a copy of
any of Suffolk County's tax maps for your own use (if you can find the
plat number) but you may not copy the map yourself without violating
the county's copyright. (To the extent that the copyright is valid in
the first place. The court did not reach the facts of the case to
determine whether the works in question met the Feist standard.)

I am given to understand that there is a circuit split on the matter,
and in fact that the Second is the only Circuit to craft such a
loophole to open government laws. Recall that the Second is the
circuit where, for a time, it was held that West Publishing held
copyright on the page numbers in their court reporters, and that those
who wished to cite them in briefs owed West a license fee for using
the numbers. Fortunately, that fell when Bender v West was reheard en
banc.

The State government, and the New York City government, fortunately
for us, engage in no such nonsense. New York City's open government
law was drafted after Suffolk v First American and has explicit
language forbidding such games.

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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

Thank you very much for these additional clarifications, Brian.  It may take 
years, it may take several court cases, it may take fifty state legislatures 
and courts and federal appeals and circuits to assert this, it may take 
Attorneys General educating county clerks who try to assert copyright 
(improperly, even illegally), it may even take DECADES of effort in open 
data/open source projects like OSM and we, the good People and Citizen Mappers 
who believe in this stuff and continue to knock on doors, send emails and make 
phone calls to our elected folks.  But the bottom line is that slowly, surely, 
we here in the fifty states of the USA enjoy fairly free-and-open geographic 
data from which we are able to make excellent maps.  (OK, ask around, check 
your state and/or county to be sure).  Harmoniously, together, sharing the best 
knowledge/data we have, coupled with the power of government resources wisely 
spent and our volunteer spirit working for the highest good of awesome 
geography, OSM continues to rock the mapping world.  Yeah!

Keep up the great work, everybody.  I know I am seriously dedicated to this 
project long term.

SteveA
California


> On Aug 14, 2018, at 1:30 PM, Brian May  wrote:
> This may have been stated already, but just wanted to make it clear - State 
> laws on public records filter down through all regional and local governments 
> operating within the state. So if state law doesn't explicitly give a county 
> permission to copyright data, and the county tries to assert copyright, the 
> county is violating state law. If you can get a hold of the data, you can 
> ignore whatever the county says. If you can't get the data and must get it 
> from the agency through formal channels, you need to send a letter and 
> explain the situation. If they don't respond favorably, try the state 
> Attorney General's office. In Florida, the Attorney General weighed in on 
> this issue in the mid-2000s because counties weren't getting the message 
> after a court case clarified the that public records could not be copyrighted 
> or sold at exorbitant prices in Florida for "cost recovery". At that time the 
> Attorney General's office had an open records advocate that would help 
> educate, communicate, and mediate with local governments about public records 
> laws.

>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 1:05 PM OSM Volunteer stevea 
>>  wrote:
>>> I'm not an attorney, though were I to attempt to sharpen focus on these two 
>>> replies, I'd say that in California, it's more like this:  data produced by 
>>> state agencies (by our state government personnel "on the clock") 
>>> publishing them as "produced by the state of California" cannot have 
>>> onerous copyright terms/restrictions put upon them.  They simply "belong to 
>>> the public."  (This is especially true of GIS data, as in the County of 
>>> Santa Clara and Orange County/Sierra Club cases).
>>> 
>>> So when you say "copyright...owned by the government," that is effectively 
>>> equivalent to "copyright owned by the People of the state" because of 
>>> California's Open Data laws and stare decisis (law determined by court 
>>> precedence/findings).  Whether "public domain" is the correct legal term 
>>> I'm not sure, but if there is a distinction between the legality of 
>>> California-produced data and "the data are in the public domain" it is 
>>> either very subtle or completely non-existent; I consider 
>>> California-produced data "somewhere around, if not actually PD" and "fully 
>>> ODbL-compatible" for OSM purposes.  So, (and I hope this dispels any 
>>> confusion and answers your question, Pine), "created by the government" 
>>> means they can't put "onerous copyright" on it, meaning it is effectively 
>>> owned by the People for any purpose for which We see fit.



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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Brian May]

On 8/12/2018 4:26 PM, Kevin Kenny wrote:

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 1:05 PM OSM Volunteer stevea
 wrote:

I'm not an attorney, though were I to attempt to sharpen focus on these two replies, I'd say that in 
California, it's more like this:  data produced by state agencies (by our state government personnel "on 
the clock") publishing them as "produced by the state of California" cannot have onerous 
copyright terms/restrictions put upon them.  They simply "belong to the public."  (This is 
especially true of GIS data, as in the County of Santa Clara and Orange County/Sierra Club cases).

So when you say "copyright...owned by the government," that is effectively equivalent to "copyright owned by the People of the state" 
because of California's Open Data laws and stare decisis (law determined by court precedence/findings).  Whether "public domain" is the correct legal 
term I'm not sure, but if there is a distinction between the legality of California-produced data and "the data are in the public domain" it is 
either very subtle or completely non-existent; I consider California-produced data "somewhere around, if not actually PD" and "fully 
ODbL-compatible" for OSM purposes.  So, (and I hope this dispels any confusion and answers your question, Pine), "created by the government" 
means they can't put "onerous copyright" on it, meaning it is effectively owned by the People for any purpose for which We see fit.

TL:DR: The closest answer to Clifford Snow's original question for New
York is http://gis.ny.gov/gisdata/inventories/details.cfm?DSID=932
which is virtually certain (the law, as always is muddy) to be
ODBL-compatible (and in fact, there is a colourable case that it is in
the Public Domain.) The digital raster quads available from
https://gis.ny.gov/gisdata/quads/ (these are State, not USGS!) are
also a potential data source for tracing, and again, aren't deeply
mired in the legal swamp.

Of course, as people like Frederik Ramm are quick to point out, no
imported data are truly safe! (In the US system, a deep-pocketed
plaintiff can simply bankrupt the defendant before the conclusion of a
civil suit, and the law is particularly murky in the
copyright-friendly Second Circuit, which comprises New York, Vermont
and Connecticut.)



I already sent Clifford Snow a reply in private email, but this
deserves to be elaborated more in public, given how the conversation
has turned.

I am not a lawyer either, but as a scholar I have had to learn some of
this stuff.

I live in the Second Circuit, and the situation with respect to State
and local government works is complicated here. The confusion stems
from a decision rendered by the Second Circuit in the case of _Suffolk
County v First American Real Estate Solutions_ (261 F. 3d 179 (2001):
https://openjurist.org/261/f3d/179/county-v-first). First American was
a real estate multiple listing service that had acquired Suffolk
County's tax maps under New York's Freedom of Information Law, and was
republishing them without license to its participating realtors.
Suffolk County, motivated by the desire for cost recovery for the
maintenance of the tax rolls, sued for copyright infringement. First
American moved to dismiss, on the grounds that the Freedom of
Information Law extinguished any copyright interest that Suffolk
County might have had in the product. The district court initially
denied the motion. On petition to reconsider, the district court
agreed with First American that the Freedom of Information Law
requires that Suffolk County may not use whatever copyright subsists
in the tax maps to restrict their republication.

The Second Circuit held that the Freedom of Information Law is fully
satisfied as long as the public has the right to inspect the
copyrighted records, and that FOIL does not extinguish the possibility
of a copyright claim. Since it was ruling on a motion to dismiss,
there was no ruling on the facts of the case, so the judicial opinion
did not reach the argument of whether the maps had sufficient
originality to survive a claim under the _Feist v Rural_ (499 U.S. 340
(1991) - 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications,_Inc.,_v._Rural_Telephone_Service_Co.)
standard. Suffolk's initial argument appears to have been crafted to
follow the 'sweat of the brow' standard. Nevertheless, the Second
Circuit accepted that the originality claim was sufficiently pleaded.
Nevertheless, the opinion recognized that 'items such as street
location and landmarks were "physical facts"-and thus not protected
elements" (_Suffolk_ at 24) and that in an earier case it had 'thus
focused on "the overall manner in which [the plaintiff] selected,
coordinated, and arranged the expressive elements in its map,
including color, to depict the map's factual content."' No deference
was accorded to a contrary advisory opinion from the New York State
Committee on Open Government.

The appellate decision remanded the matter to the district court for
further proceedings; the 

Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Kevin Kenny]

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:28 PM Kevin Kenny  wrote:
> > TL:DR: The closest answer to Clifford Snow's original question for New
> > York is http://gis.ny.gov/gisdata/inventories/details.cfm?DSID=932
> > which is virtually certain (the law, as always is muddy) to be
> > ODBL-compatible (and in fact, there is a colourable case that it is in
> > the Public Domain.) The digital raster quads available from
> > https://gis.ny.gov/gisdata/quads/ (these are State, not USGS!) are
> > also a potential data source for tracing, and again, aren't deeply
> > mired in the legal swamp.

I did some spot checks on the file cited above, and it's better than I
remembered. Comparing it with some of the places that I've been
meaning to return to and field-survey, it's much freer from
hallucination than TIGER. It's a bit out of date (which means both
that new development is missing and that a few abandoned roads are
there), but it's not horrible (while the TIGER-derived data are indeed
horrible).

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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Kevin Kenny]

Went and sent this from the wrong return address - trying again.

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:26 PM Kevin Kenny  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 1:05 PM OSM Volunteer stevea
>  wrote:
> > I'm not an attorney, though were I to attempt to sharpen focus on these two 
> > replies, I'd say that in California, it's more like this:  data produced by 
> > state agencies (by our state government personnel "on the clock") 
> > publishing them as "produced by the state of California" cannot have 
> > onerous copyright terms/restrictions put upon them.  They simply "belong to 
> > the public."  (This is especially true of GIS data, as in the County of 
> > Santa Clara and Orange County/Sierra Club cases).
> >
> > So when you say "copyright...owned by the government," that is effectively 
> > equivalent to "copyright owned by the People of the state" because of 
> > California's Open Data laws and stare decisis (law determined by court 
> > precedence/findings).  Whether "public domain" is the correct legal term 
> > I'm not sure, but if there is a distinction between the legality of 
> > California-produced data and "the data are in the public domain" it is 
> > either very subtle or completely non-existent; I consider 
> > California-produced data "somewhere around, if not actually PD" and "fully 
> > ODbL-compatible" for OSM purposes.  So, (and I hope this dispels any 
> > confusion and answers your question, Pine), "created by the government" 
> > means they can't put "onerous copyright" on it, meaning it is effectively 
> > owned by the People for any purpose for which We see fit.
>
> TL:DR: The closest answer to Clifford Snow's original question for New
> York is http://gis.ny.gov/gisdata/inventories/details.cfm?DSID=932
> which is virtually certain (the law, as always is muddy) to be
> ODBL-compatible (and in fact, there is a colourable case that it is in
> the Public Domain.) The digital raster quads available from
> https://gis.ny.gov/gisdata/quads/ (these are State, not USGS!) are
> also a potential data source for tracing, and again, aren't deeply
> mired in the legal swamp.
>
> Of course, as people like Frederik Ramm are quick to point out, no
> imported data are truly safe! (In the US system, a deep-pocketed
> plaintiff can simply bankrupt the defendant before the conclusion of a
> civil suit, and the law is particularly murky in the
> copyright-friendly Second Circuit, which comprises New York, Vermont
> and Connecticut.)
>
> 
>
> I already sent Clifford Snow a reply in private email, but this
> deserves to be elaborated more in public, given how the conversation
> has turned.
>
> I am not a lawyer either, but as a scholar I have had to learn some of
> this stuff.
>
> I live in the Second Circuit, and the situation with respect to State
> and local government works is complicated here. The confusion stems
> from a decision rendered by the Second Circuit in the case of _Suffolk
> County v First American Real Estate Solutions_ (261 F. 3d 179 (2001):
> https://openjurist.org/261/f3d/179/county-v-first). First American was
> a real estate multiple listing service that had acquired Suffolk
> County's tax maps under New York's Freedom of Information Law, and was
> republishing them without license to its participating realtors.
> Suffolk County, motivated by the desire for cost recovery for the
> maintenance of the tax rolls, sued for copyright infringement. First
> American moved to dismiss, on the grounds that the Freedom of
> Information Law extinguished any copyright interest that Suffolk
> County might have had in the product. The district court initially
> denied the motion. On petition to reconsider, the district court
> agreed with First American that the Freedom of Information Law
> requires that Suffolk County may not use whatever copyright subsists
> in the tax maps to restrict their republication.
>
> The Second Circuit held that the Freedom of Information Law is fully
> satisfied as long as the public has the right to inspect the
> copyrighted records, and that FOIL does not extinguish the possibility
> of a copyright claim. Since it was ruling on a motion to dismiss,
> there was no ruling on the facts of the case, so the judicial opinion
> did not reach the argument of whether the maps had sufficient
> originality to survive a claim under the _Feist v Rural_ (499 U.S. 340
> (1991) - 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications,_Inc.,_v._Rural_Telephone_Service_Co.)
> standard. Suffolk's initial argument appears to have been crafted to
> follow the 'sweat of the brow' standard. Nevertheless, the Second
> Circuit accepted that the originality claim was sufficiently pleaded.
> Nevertheless, the opinion recognized that 'items such as street
> location and landmarks were "physical facts"-and thus not protected
> elements" (_Suffolk_ at 24) and that in an earier case it had 'thus
> focused on "the overall manner in which [the plaintiff] selected,
> coordinated, and arranged the expressive 

Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

I'm not an attorney, though were I to attempt to sharpen focus on these two 
replies, I'd say that in California, it's more like this:  data produced by 
state agencies (by our state government personnel "on the clock") publishing 
them as "produced by the state of California" cannot have onerous copyright 
terms/restrictions put upon them.  They simply "belong to the public."  (This 
is especially true of GIS data, as in the County of Santa Clara and Orange 
County/Sierra Club cases).

So when you say "copyright...owned by the government," that is effectively 
equivalent to "copyright owned by the People of the state" because of 
California's Open Data laws and stare decisis (law determined by court 
precedence/findings).  Whether "public domain" is the correct legal term I'm 
not sure, but if there is a distinction between the legality of 
California-produced data and "the data are in the public domain" it is either 
very subtle or completely non-existent; I consider California-produced data 
"somewhere around, if not actually PD" and "fully ODbL-compatible" for OSM 
purposes.  So, (and I hope this dispels any confusion and answers your 
question, Pine), "created by the government" means they can't put "onerous 
copyright" on it, meaning it is effectively owned by the People for any purpose 
for which We see fit.

If there ARE lawyers out there who think I'm getting this wrong, please chime 
in, but I strongly believe this is firm legal ground.

FEDERAL laws are slightly different, and maybe even MORE generous:  data 
produced by federal agencies are "in the public domain" (unless classified as 
Confidential, Secret and Most Secret, which are NOT for wider consumption).

SteveA
California
(and again, not an attorney, though I am an educated person who can read and 
interpret my laws)


> From: Pine W 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data
> Date: August 11, 2018 at 10:59:55 AM PDT
> To: talk-us 
> 
> I'm interested in this subject. An issue is that the copyright might be owned 
> by the government entity that created it, even if the records are open for 
> the public. If something is public record in California, does that also mean 
> that it's not copyrighted by the government entity that created it?
> 
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:01 PM Pine W  wrote:
> I'm interested in this subject. An issue is that the copyright might be owned 
> by the government entity that created it, even if the records are open for 
> the public. If something is public record in California, does that also mean 
> that it's not copyrighted by the government entity that created it?
> 
> Its my understanding that if the state government has an open data law 
> similar to the US, then when they release the data it's public domain. There 
> are exceptions. Sometime they license the data from a company without have 
> the rights to release it as PD. They also have exceptions for not releasing 
> data that has personal information. I sat through a talk by WSDOT. One of the 
> big issues they pressed was to be very careful be for adding data to the 
> state's open data portal. Once it's out in the open, they can't get it back.



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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:01 PM Pine W  wrote:

> I'm interested in this subject. An issue is that the copyright might be
> owned by the government entity that created it, even if the records are
> open for the public. If something is public record in California, does that
> also mean that it's not copyrighted by the government entity that created
> it?
>
> Its my understanding that if the state government has an open data law
similar to the US, then when they release the data it's public domain.
There are exceptions. Sometime they license the data from a company without
have the rights to release it as PD. They also have exceptions for not
releasing data that has personal information. I sat through a talk by
WSDOT. One of the big issues they pressed was to be very careful be for
adding data to the state's open data portal. Once it's out in the open,
they can't get it back.


-- 
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Pine W]

I'm interested in this subject. An issue is that the copyright might be
owned by the government entity that created it, even if the records are
open for the public. If something is public record in California, does that
also mean that it's not copyrighted by the government entity that created
it?

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 5:55 PM OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> In California, we are quite fortunate to have not only a great deal of
> open data, but an explicit (two, actually) state Supreme Court cases which
> unambiguously assert that data created by the state in the name of the
> People belong to, yup, We, the People.  In other words, if the data are
> public, created by a state agency, the data are "ours" to use as we see
> fit, including a hand-in-glove fit with OSM's ODbL.  The web's "initial
> entry point" can be considered https://data.ca.gov although there are
> MANY more online sources of such data which can be freely used.
>
> Please see:
>
> Government Code §11549.30 (the California Open Data Act),
>
> County of Santa Clara v. California First Amendment Coalition, 170 Cal.
> App. 4th 1301
>
> Sierra Club v. County of Orange, 57 Cal.4th 157 (2013) and
>
> California Public Records Act (Statutes of 1968, Chapter 1473; currently
> codified as California Government Code §§ 6250 through 6276.48)
>
> Hooray for open data, hooray for how it continues to improve OSM!
>
> SteveA
> California
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Jeffrey Ollie]

I think that this is the data for Iowa that you're looking for:

http://data.iowadot.gov/datasets/historical-road-centerline-files

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer
> available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free
> hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your
> help finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM.
>
> To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data
> information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone
> should be able to view the information.
>
>
> [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPS
> nevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing
>
>
> Thanks,
> Clifford
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Adam,
Thanks for adding Vermont.

At some point I'd like to do like you did with surfaces. One of the
problems I run into is that every agency seems to have a different list of
surfaces. We'd should probably try to create a conversion chart to map
different names into OSM surface types.

For example, USFS roads has the following surface types

 AC - ASPHALT

 AGG - CRUSHED AGGREGATE OR GRAVEL

 AGG - LIMESTONE

 AGG - SCORIA

 BST - BITUMINOUS SURFACE TREATMENT

 CSOIL - COMPACTED SOIL

 FSOIL - FROZEN SOIL

 IMP - IMPROVED NATIVE MATERIAL

 NATIVE MATERIAL

 NAT - NATIVE MATERIAL

 OTHER - OTHER

 PCC - PORTLAND CEMENT CONCRETE

 PIT - PIT RUN SHOT ROCK

 P - PAVED

 SOD - GRASS


>From Okanogan county in Washington they have

 D

 d

 null (which has the highest count)

 P

 G

The states metadata can help us build a conversion to OSM surface types;


Clifford




On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 7:49 AM Adam Franco  wrote:

> I've added Vermont's center-line
>  info to
> the spreadsheet. As someone who does a lot of filtering of OSM roads based
> on surface, exposing surface info to a broader group of editors would be a
> fabulous win. Thanks for heading in this direction!
>
> To do my own surface entry I've resorted to side-by side JOSM and QGIS
> windows with the latter showing a color-coded road-centerline file. As can
> be imagined, most people won't go to this effort and hence US road-surface
> data in OSM is pretty patchy to say the least.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Elliott Plack 
> wrote:
>
>> Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM
>> as an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
>> centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
>> http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation
>>
>> Kudos on getting this together!
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Ian,


 On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:

> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>
> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a
> while ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>
> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>
> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single,
> country-wide layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that
> path, if that's what you're thinking.
>
>
 That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
 background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
 street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.

>>>
>>>
>>> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal
>>> can use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>>
>> --
>> Elliott Plack
>> http://elliottplack.me
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Adam Franco]

I've added Vermont's center-line
 info to
the spreadsheet. As someone who does a lot of filtering of OSM roads based
on surface, exposing surface info to a broader group of editors would be a
fabulous win. Thanks for heading in this direction!

To do my own surface entry I've resorted to side-by side JOSM and QGIS
windows with the latter showing a color-coded road-centerline file. As can
be imagined, most people won't go to this effort and hence US road-surface
data in OSM is pretty patchy to say the least.




On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Elliott Plack 
wrote:

> Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM
> as an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
> centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
> http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation
>
> Kudos on getting this together!
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!

 I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a
 while ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines

 I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
 free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.

 My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
 layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
 what you're thinking.


>>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>>
>>
>>
>> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal
>> can use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
> --
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> http://elliottplack.me
>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Elliott,
Thanks - I've added Maryland into the spreadsheet.

Clifford

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:32 PM Elliott Plack 
wrote:

> Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM
> as an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
> centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
> http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation
>
> Kudos on getting this together!
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!

 I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a
 while ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines

 I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
 free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.

 My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
 layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
 what you're thinking.


>>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>>
>>
>>
>> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal
>> can use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
> --
> Elliott Plack
> http://elliottplack.me
>


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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Elliott Plack]

Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM as
an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation

Kudos on getting this together!
On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>>>
>>> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
>>> ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>>>
>>> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
>>> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>>>
>>> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
>>> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
>>> what you're thinking.
>>>
>>>
>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>
>
>
> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal can
> use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
> ___
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> Ian,
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>>
>> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
>> ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>>
>> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
>> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>>
>> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
>> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
>> what you're thinking.
>>
>>
> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>


This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal can
use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Ian,


On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:

> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>
> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
> ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>
> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>
> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
> what you're thinking.
>
>
That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.

Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Joe Sapletal]

This list of government REST endpoints came across my desk this spring.  Not 
sure which could be considered open, but someone might enjoy exploring this? - 
https://mappingsupport.com/p/surf_gis/list-federal-state-county-city-GIS-servers.pdf


Joe Sapletal

From: Bryan Housel
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 10:49 AM
To: Clifford Snow
Cc: osm-talk-us
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

Hey Clifford, this is a great idea and thanks for volunteering to collect these 
open data sources..

Also make sure to check out Telenav’s mapping repo for a really impressive list 
of public sources of centerline data.
https://github.com/TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues

Bryan




On Aug 7, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Clifford Snow  wrote:

A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer 
available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free 
hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your help 
finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM. 

To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data 
information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone 
should be able to view the information.

 
[1] 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPSnevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing


Thanks,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Bryan Housel]

Hey Clifford, this is a great idea and thanks for volunteering to collect these 
open data sources..

Also make sure to check out Telenav’s mapping repo for a really impressive list 
of public sources of centerline data.
https://github.com/TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues

Bryan



> On Aug 7, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> 
> A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer 
> available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free 
> hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your help 
> finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM. 
> 
> To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data 
> information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone 
> should be able to view the information.
> 
>  
> [1] 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPSnevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Clifford
> 
> -- 
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us 
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
> ___
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[David Fawcett]

Clifford,

I don't have rights to edit the document.

MN Data is here: https://gisdata.mn.gov/dataset

David,

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 10:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:

> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>
> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
> ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>
> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>
> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
> what you're thinking.
>
> -Ian
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 10:24 AM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background
>> layer available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing
>> free hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need
>> your help finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM.
>>
>> To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data
>> information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone
>> should be able to view the information.
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPSnevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Clifford
>>
>> --
>> @osm_seattle
>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Ian Dees]

Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!

I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines

I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel free
to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.

My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
what you're thinking.

-Ian

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 10:24 AM Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer
> available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free
> hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your
> help finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM.
>
> To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data
> information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone
> should be able to view the information.
>
>
> [1]
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPSnevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing
>
>
> Thanks,
> Clifford
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
> ___
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[Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer
available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free
hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your
help finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM.

To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data
information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone
should be able to view the information.


[1]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPSnevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing


Thanks,
Clifford

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