Re: [Talk-us] USGS Large-Scale Imagery degraded this month :(

2016-12-20 Thread Wolfgang Zenker 
Hi,

* Russ Nelson  [161221 00:21]:
> Paul Johnson writes:
>> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>>> I will try to contact a couple of the folks I know at USGS (maybe they're
>>> still on this list and could respond?), but it might be the case that we
>>> need to request the imagery and build the desired layer ourselves...

>> Sounds like a plan, if only to save this valuable service for posterity.
>> I'm sure those familiar with me at this point can go ahead and fill in
>> their own frustrated and politically fueled rant about my feelings on this
>> even being something we need to be talking about now...

> Does this service degradation apply to the USGS Topographic maps, too?
> I've noticed that they load slowly and sometimes not at all.

> I can put up some money, if that's what it takes.

According to
https://www.usgs.gov/news/usgs-national-map-orthoimagery-map-services-transition-and-other-map-service-changes
the Topo maps are going away completely.

Wolfgang

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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Large-Scale Imagery degraded this month :(

2016-12-20 Thread Ian Dees 
It probably does. I think the scanned topographic maps are on the same new,
slower server.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> Paul Johnson writes:
>  > On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>  > >
>  > > I will try to contact a couple of the folks I know at USGS (maybe
> they're
>  > > still on this list and could respond?), but it might be the case that
> we
>  > > need to request the imagery and build the desired layer ourselves...
>  >
>  > Sounds like a plan, if only to save this valuable service for posterity.
>  > I'm sure those familiar with me at this point can go ahead and fill in
>  > their own frustrated and politically fueled rant about my feelings on
> this
>  > even being something we need to be talking about now...
>
> Does this service degradation apply to the USGS Topographic maps, too?
> I've noticed that they load slowly and sometimes not at all.
>
> I can put up some money, if that's what it takes.
>
> --
> --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
> Crynwr supports open source software
> 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
> Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog
>
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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Large-Scale Imagery degraded this month :(

2016-12-20 Thread Russ Nelson 
Paul Johnson writes:
 > On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
 > >
 > > I will try to contact a couple of the folks I know at USGS (maybe they're
 > > still on this list and could respond?), but it might be the case that we
 > > need to request the imagery and build the desired layer ourselves...
 > 
 > Sounds like a plan, if only to save this valuable service for posterity.
 > I'm sure those familiar with me at this point can go ahead and fill in
 > their own frustrated and politically fueled rant about my feelings on this
 > even being something we need to be talking about now...

Does this service degradation apply to the USGS Topographic maps, too?
I've noticed that they load slowly and sometimes not at all.

I can put up some money, if that's what it takes.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Large-Scale Imagery degraded this month :(

2016-12-19 Thread Paul Johnson 
On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>
> I will try to contact a couple of the folks I know at USGS (maybe they're
> still on this list and could respond?), but it might be the case that we
> need to request the imagery and build the desired layer ourselves...
>

Sounds like a plan, if only to save this valuable service for posterity.
I'm sure those familiar with me at this point can go ahead and fill in
their own frustrated and politically fueled rant about my feelings on this
even being something we need to be talking about now...
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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Large-Scale Imagery degraded this month :(

2016-12-18 Thread TC Haddad 
http://www.directionsmag.com/pressreleases/usgs-cutting-high-resolution-ortho-imagery-program/479365



On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:

> I run the tile.openstreetmap.us server and noticed this change. Thanks
> for finding the USGS link: I saw it a while ago but then couldn't find it
> when I was trying to debug the problems with the server. The
> "usgs_large_scale" layer on tile.openstreetmap.us is now caching the
> USGSNAIPPlus layer, but the URL they provide both has worse imagery and is
> run from a much slower server (so my caching operation takes quite a bit
> longer and results in occasional 404s to the end user).
>
> I will try to contact a couple of the folks I know at USGS (maybe they're
> still on this list and could respond?), but it might be the case that we
> need to request the imagery and build the desired layer ourselves...
>
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 2:43 PM, David Kewley 
> wrote:
>
>> For a lot of my satellite imagery tracing, I've found it very useful to
>> go back and forth between Bing and USGS Large-Scale Imagery, which provides
>> at least 1-m resolution across the U.S., and in some areas (e.g. urban
>> areas) provides nice 1-foot resolution orthoimagery that aligns very well
>> in my local area with Bing imagery.
>>
>> Well, I should say "provided", past tense. For the past couple of weeks
>> or so, I've noticed that the the USGS LSI has seemed to degrade in many of
>> my local imagery tiles, and I've finally looked into why that might be so.
>>
>> For example, at this location, today (current state of imagery tile
>> caching, perhaps mostly local to me?)
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?changeset=44464607#map=19
>> /33.56194/-117.67451
>>
>> when using USGS LSI, I see the NE, NW, and SW imagery tiles look fine,
>> but the SE tile is much lower quality, clearly from a different set of
>> imagery. I could swear this area was formerly seamless with the good
>> imagery.
>>
>> It looks like this month's degradation is probably a downstream effect of
>> this change:
>>
>> https://www.usgs.gov/news/usgs-national-map-orthoimagery-
>> map-services-transition-and-other-map-service-changes
>>
>> Before USGS made this change, I saw identical imagery if I used iD's
>> built-in USGS LSI, versus using the following setting in Custom imagery in
>> iD:
>>
>> http://whoots.mapwarper.net/tms/{z}/{x}/{y}/0/http://raster.
>> nationalmap.gov/arcgis/services/Orthoimagery/USGS_EROS_Ortho
>> /ImageServer/WMSServer?
>>
>> The OSM built-in USGS LSI was faster than this custom link, I believe
>> because the custom link is dynamic (not cached by whoots), and it takes two
>> round trips, a lookup by iD to whoots, then by whoots to USGS, and probably
>> a dynamic conversion by whoots. I'm not an expert in this, so could easily
>> have some of this wrong.
>>
>> USGS LSI seemed faster -- perhaps it was static on the backend, or cached
>> better or something. The OSM built-in USGS LSI imagery appears to be served
>> by openstreetmap.us, though I know none of the details of how it's
>> served.
>>
>> Anyway now per the above announcement link, the *USGS_EROS_Ortho* URL is
>> deprecated, and is no longer served, and it seems like the following whoots
>> dynamic lookup imagery is the appropriate one, based on the
>> USGS-recommended replacement for the deprecated imagery:
>>
>> http://whoots.mapwarper.net/tms/{z}/{x}/{y}/1/https://servic
>> es.nationalmap.gov/arcgis/services/USGSNAIPPlus/MapServer/WMSServer?
>>
>> Indeed when I use this in the Custom imagery setting in iD, I see the
>> same degraded imagery that the built-in USGS LSI setting now gives me.
>>
>>
>> Can anyone shed further light or corrections on any of this? Any idea
>> whether it's technically possible and legally permissible to have
>> openstreetmap.us serve the older, better USGS LSI instead of the newer,
>> worse stuff? If so, upon further discussion I'd probably support such a
>> move, and possibly even offer to help with the conversion. :)
>>
>> Thanks!
>> David
>>
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>>
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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Large-Scale Imagery degraded this month :(

2016-12-18 Thread Ian Dees 
I run the tile.openstreetmap.us server and noticed this change. Thanks for
finding the USGS link: I saw it a while ago but then couldn't find it when
I was trying to debug the problems with the server. The "usgs_large_scale"
layer on tile.openstreetmap.us is now caching the USGSNAIPPlus layer, but
the URL they provide both has worse imagery and is run from a much slower
server (so my caching operation takes quite a bit longer and results in
occasional 404s to the end user).

I will try to contact a couple of the folks I know at USGS (maybe they're
still on this list and could respond?), but it might be the case that we
need to request the imagery and build the desired layer ourselves...

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 2:43 PM, David Kewley 
wrote:

> For a lot of my satellite imagery tracing, I've found it very useful to go
> back and forth between Bing and USGS Large-Scale Imagery, which provides at
> least 1-m resolution across the U.S., and in some areas (e.g. urban areas)
> provides nice 1-foot resolution orthoimagery that aligns very well in my
> local area with Bing imagery.
>
> Well, I should say "provided", past tense. For the past couple of weeks or
> so, I've noticed that the the USGS LSI has seemed to degrade in many of my
> local imagery tiles, and I've finally looked into why that might be so.
>
> For example, at this location, today (current state of imagery tile
> caching, perhaps mostly local to me?)
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?changeset=44464607#map=
> 19/33.56194/-117.67451
>
> when using USGS LSI, I see the NE, NW, and SW imagery tiles look fine, but
> the SE tile is much lower quality, clearly from a different set of imagery.
> I could swear this area was formerly seamless with the good imagery.
>
> It looks like this month's degradation is probably a downstream effect of
> this change:
>
> https://www.usgs.gov/news/usgs-national-map-orthoimagery-map-services-
> transition-and-other-map-service-changes
>
> Before USGS made this change, I saw identical imagery if I used iD's
> built-in USGS LSI, versus using the following setting in Custom imagery in
> iD:
>
> http://whoots.mapwarper.net/tms/{z}/{x}/{y}/0/http://raster.
> nationalmap.gov/arcgis/services/Orthoimagery/USGS_EROS_Ortho
> /ImageServer/WMSServer?
>
> The OSM built-in USGS LSI was faster than this custom link, I believe
> because the custom link is dynamic (not cached by whoots), and it takes two
> round trips, a lookup by iD to whoots, then by whoots to USGS, and probably
> a dynamic conversion by whoots. I'm not an expert in this, so could easily
> have some of this wrong.
>
> USGS LSI seemed faster -- perhaps it was static on the backend, or cached
> better or something. The OSM built-in USGS LSI imagery appears to be served
> by openstreetmap.us, though I know none of the details of how it's served.
>
> Anyway now per the above announcement link, the *USGS_EROS_Ortho* URL is
> deprecated, and is no longer served, and it seems like the following whoots
> dynamic lookup imagery is the appropriate one, based on the
> USGS-recommended replacement for the deprecated imagery:
>
> http://whoots.mapwarper.net/tms/{z}/{x}/{y}/1/https://
> services.nationalmap.gov/arcgis/services/USGSNAIPPlus/MapServer/WMSServer?
>
> Indeed when I use this in the Custom imagery setting in iD, I see the same
> degraded imagery that the built-in USGS LSI setting now gives me.
>
>
> Can anyone shed further light or corrections on any of this? Any idea
> whether it's technically possible and legally permissible to have
> openstreetmap.us serve the older, better USGS LSI instead of the newer,
> worse stuff? If so, upon further discussion I'd probably support such a
> move, and possibly even offer to help with the conversion. :)
>
> Thanks!
> David
>
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>
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