Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[James Mast]

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 07:01:35 -0500
From: ba...@ursamundi.org
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:08 PM, James Mast  wrote:



Maybe we should invite the MapBox paid mappers to join in this conversation?

 This is something I would like to become (hint, hint).

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

You're not the only one Paul.  I'd love to as well.
  ___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Martijn van Exel]

> On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Richard Welty  wrote:
> 
> secondarily, if it is indeed the case that this is mostly happening
> because of paid mappers (i don't know that for a fact), can we
> please contact who ever is supervising the paid mappers and
> discuss whether their training program and standards could
> be improved?

That would be me :)

The folks at Telenav who do mapping as part of their job are urgently aware 
that they need to treat local knowledge with the utmost respect and care, and 
that Bing (and any) imagery is to be used with caution. When in doubt, we try 
to compare against other imagery sources, and State / local GIS data. If that 
does not give us something definitive, we don’t touch the situation, or leave 
an OSM note [1].

Also, mapping for the United States is exclusively done by folks who live in 
the United States and therefore a) are familiar at a general level with road 
layout / signage etc. in the US and b) are able to connect easily with the 
local community / individual mappers.

As always, if you find any issue with mapping done by one of our folks, please 
don’t hesitate to get in touch with them, or me.

Martijn

[1] see for example notes by Kristen (who has participated in this thread 
already)  http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KristenK/notes 
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:08 PM, James Mast 
wrote:

> Maybe we should invite the MapBox paid mappers to join in this
> conversation?
>

 This is something I would like to become (hint, hint).
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Richard Welty]

On 6/14/15 2:27 PM, Minh Nguyen wrote:
>
> With both outdated imagery and the Ohio River [1], I've had better
> luck placing redundant `note` tags on every way that such a mapper
> would be inclined to delete. iD shows `note` in a big box in the
> sidebar. It's a bit harder to miss than a (heretofore) ad-hoc tag that
> would be relegated to the All Tags section. Potlatch 2 doesn't support
> anything like it, unfortunately.
well, it's nice that iD supports a note tag this way. as far as i know
Potlatch does not and i tested JOSM and it doesn't seem to. so
note in iD would appear to be as ad-hoc as my use of README
because it sorts to the top of the tag lists in Potlatch and JOSM.

so can we have one tag which is properly supported across the
major editors? is that too much to ask?

secondarily, if it is indeed the case that this is mostly happening
because of paid mappers (i don't know that for a fact), can we
please contact who ever is supervising the paid mappers and
discuss whether their training program and standards could
be improved?

richard

-- 
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Minh Nguyen]

On 2015-06-11 06:42, Richard Welty wrote:

please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.

yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.

i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
to, you know, read the README.


With both outdated imagery and the Ohio River [1], I've had better luck 
placing redundant `note` tags on every way that such a mapper would be 
inclined to delete. iD shows `note` in a big box in the sidebar. It's a 
bit harder to miss than a (heretofore) ad-hoc tag that would be 
relegated to the All Tags section. Potlatch 2 doesn't support anything 
like it, unfortunately.


If it gets really bad, you could try spelling out "DO NOT ERASE" in 
aerialway=contrail ways. :-P


[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ohio_River

--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Kam, Kristen]

I will take a look at this.  Thanks Bryan.

Kristen


---
Kristen Kam
OSM Profile --> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KristenK

From: Bryan Housel [mailto:br...@7thposition.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 7:55 AM
To: Kam, Kristen
Cc: Richard Welty; Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery alongside 
the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most tile providers, 
but we can get it from Bing in the response header.

Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at 
implementing this.
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492

Thanks, Bryan



On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen 
mailto:krist...@telenav.com>> wrote:

We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM editing 
applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the imagery 
collection would get folks to do a double take before using older imagery.

Kristen

Sent from OWA on Android

From: Richard Welty mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net>>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.

yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.

i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
to, you know, read the README.

i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.

thanks,
  richard

--
rwe...@averillpark.net<mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net>
Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
Java - Web Applications - Search



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Mike N]

On 6/12/2015 1:47 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

If it turns out that this is not an accident but a systemic problem
(e.g. due to the mapper employing some sort of TIGER<->OSM comparison
and systematically re-adding stuff) then the mapper should be encouraged
to be more diligent, or if that is not possible, the mapper should
probably stop making these types of edits altogether.


 The value of the TIGER<>OSM comparison process greatly outweighs the 
risks of a few zombie roads reappearing.   I've been reviewing all of 
them now, but there are only a tiny number of road removals that would 
be incorrectly re-added.


  I'm not sure that contacting them would help in this case: what would 
tell them that something isn't right.   I've come within a gnats tooth 
of doing the same thing myself when fixing something in an unfamiliar 
area.The question is: what would prompt them to even slow down and 
investigate?   The phantom object with README seems to be the best 
solution for now.


  Then there's the question of whether the TIGER<>OSM comparison should 
use only the TIGER delta from 2007-2014.   But that would miss roads 
that were accidentally deleted by newbie editors; something that happens 
from time to time.


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 06/11/15 18:46, Mike N wrote:
>I've seen this problem also - an area marked for construction, all 
> roads bulldozed out, - the roads re-appear due to a TIGER<>OSM 
> comparison test because they're in Bing.
> 
>   An area where all buildings are demolished and a single large entity 
> takes its place, add a circle / rectangle with a NOTE around the area: 
> buildings reappear because they're in Bing.

If you see this happening regularly, try to find out who the responsible
mapper is and contact them.

If it turns out that this is not an accident but a systemic problem
(e.g. due to the mapper employing some sort of TIGER<->OSM comparison
and systematically re-adding stuff) then the mapper should be encouraged
to be more diligent, or if that is not possible, the mapper should
probably stop making these types of edits altogether.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[James Mast]

Maybe we should invite the MapBox paid mappers to join in this conversation?  
They are the major people doing this.

-James

> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 21:10:58 -0400
> From: nice...@att.net
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers
> 
> On 6/11/2015 12:46 PM, Mike N wrote:
> >I've seen this problem also - an area marked for construction, all
> > roads bulldozed out, - the roads re-appear due to a TIGER<>OSM
> > comparison test because they're in Bing.
> 
>   Speaking of which, one of those came back to life yesterday.   I tried 
> the README trick on an empty object this time.
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
  ___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Mike N]

On 6/11/2015 12:46 PM, Mike N wrote:

   I've seen this problem also - an area marked for construction, all
roads bulldozed out, - the roads re-appear due to a TIGER<>OSM
comparison test because they're in Bing.


 Speaking of which, one of those came back to life yesterday.   I tried 
the README trick on an empty object this time.



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Yes, it has. I was using it not all that long ago.

I’m sure it’s just a temporary outage.

d.


> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:59, Richard Welty  wrote:
> 
> On 6/11/15 1:27 PM, Darrell Fuhriman wrote:
>> Shouldn’t be too hard to add this: https://github.com/rjhale1971/NAIP_WMS 
>> 
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the WMS server seems to be misbehaving right now. I sent a 
>> note to what I hope are the right people about that.
>> 
> i had found Randy's page back when Darrell brought it up, and
> verified that 2013 NYS imagery was available from NAIP that
> clearly showed the road reconfiguration that's missing from Bing.
> so the NAIP stuff has been seen working recently.
> 
> richard
> -- 
> rwe...@averillpark.net 
>  Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
>  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
>  Java - Web Applications - Search
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Richard Welty]

On 6/11/15 1:27 PM, Darrell Fuhriman wrote:
> Shouldn’t be too hard to add this: https://github.com/rjhale1971/NAIP_WMS
>
> Unfortunately, the WMS server seems to be misbehaving right now. I
> sent a note to what I hope are the right people about that.
>
i had found Randy's page back when Darrell brought it up, and
verified that 2013 NYS imagery was available from NAIP that
clearly showed the road reconfiguration that's missing from Bing.
so the NAIP stuff has been seen working recently.

richard

-- 
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Shouldn’t be too hard to add this: https://github.com/rjhale1971/NAIP_WMS 


Unfortunately, the WMS server seems to be misbehaving right now. I sent a note 
to what I hope are the right people about that.

d.



> On Jun 11, 2015, at 08:43, Ian Dees  wrote:
> 
> Such a thing exists and is here: 
> https://github.com/osmlab/editor-imagery-index 
> 
> 
> It is used by iD and Potlatch, with JOSM output available but not installed 
> by default.
> I'm happy to help anyone add their imagery.
> 
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Darrell Fuhriman  > wrote:
> Another useful tool might be to have a repository of local imagery servers 
> that can automatically become available when in an appropriate area.
> 
> For instance, I use the 2014 NAIP imagery via a WMS server in JOSM. It’s only 
> 1m resolution, but it’s great for double checking that nothing has changed.
> 
> At smaller zoom levels, that might actually be a preferable default to always 
> using bing, and having the imagery change, combined with imagery dates, draws 
> attention to the fact that things might not always be current.
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 07:54, Bryan Housel > > wrote:
>> 
>> There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery 
>> alongside the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most 
>> tile providers, but we can get it from Bing in the response header.
>> 
>> Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at 
>> implementing this.
>> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks, Bryan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM 
>>> editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of 
>>> the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using 
>>> older imagery.
>>> 
>>> Kristen
>>> 
>>> Sent from OWA on Android
>>> 
>>> From: Richard Welty mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
>>> To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
>>> Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers
>>> 
>>> please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
>>> that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
>>> 
>>> yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
>>> in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
>>> aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
>>> but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.
>>> 
>>> i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
>>> imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
>>> to, you know, read the README.
>>> 
>>> i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
>>> you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
>>> of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
>>> of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
>>> and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
>>> mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
>>> contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>>   richard
>>> 
>>> --
>>> rwe...@averillpark.net 
>>> Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
>>> OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
>>> Java - Web Applications - Search
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Talk-us mailing list
>>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
> 
> 
> 

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Richard Welty]

On 6/11/15 12:46 PM, Mike N wrote:
>
>   My current strategy is to leave the original objects, just remove
> all tagging except for a note about Bing imagery dated  is out of
> date.
>
i did this with a slip ramp from I-90 nearby that was removed when a
roundabout was put in; i had removed the ramp, someone put it
back in because bing, so i removed the tags and added a README note
to the bare way.

nobody's messed with it since. here's hoping it stays that way.

richard

-- 
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Mike N]

On 6/11/2015 10:41 AM, Richard Welty wrote:

i am not persuaded that these armchair mappers are paying attention. unless
there's a big warning "this imagery is X years old" that can't be
ignored, i think
the information will frequently be ignored.


  I've seen this problem also - an area marked for construction, all 
roads bulldozed out, - the roads re-appear due to a TIGER<>OSM 
comparison test because they're in Bing.


 An area where all buildings are demolished and a single large entity 
takes its place, add a circle / rectangle with a NOTE around the area: 
buildings reappear because they're in Bing.


  My current strategy is to leave the original objects, just remove all 
tagging except for a note about Bing imagery dated  is out of date.


  Warning that "this imagery is X years old" will produce many false 
positives.  Imagery will very frequently be older than the last edit for 
any particular object being updated.


  What about a new type of "OSM tagging for the editor"?  Tag a closed 
way with bing=out_of_date , old_date=?   Editors would recognize 
this tagging and put some sort of X indicator over the imagery if the 
imagery is still old.   Putting up a big X, a series of X's, or the 
phrase "out of date" over the imagery should catch anyone's attention.


  I wish I could find the old Email in which there was an edit war over 
a roundabout intersection that had been reworked.   Finally, someone got 
an image substituted in the editor that said "Not a Roundabout!".



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Ian Dees]

Such a thing exists and is here:
https://github.com/osmlab/editor-imagery-index

It is used by iD and Potlatch, with JOSM output available but not installed
by default.
I'm happy to help anyone add their imagery.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Darrell Fuhriman 
wrote:

> Another useful tool might be to have a repository of local imagery servers
> that can automatically become available when in an appropriate area.
>
> For instance, I use the 2014 NAIP imagery via a WMS server in JOSM. It’s
> only 1m resolution, but it’s great for double checking that nothing has
> changed.
>
> At smaller zoom levels, that might actually be a preferable default to
> always using bing, and having the imagery change, combined with imagery
> dates, draws attention to the fact that things might not always be current.
>
> d.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 07:54, Bryan Housel  wrote:
>
> There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery
> alongside the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most
> tile providers, but we can get it from Bing in the response header.
>
> Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at
> implementing this.
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492
>
> Thanks, Bryan
>
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen  wrote:
>
> We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM
> editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of
> the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using
> older imagery.
>
> Kristen
>
> Sent from OWA on Android
> 
> From: Richard Welty 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
> To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
> Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers
>
> please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
> that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
>
> yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
> in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
> aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
> but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.
>
> i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
> imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
> to, you know, read the README.
>
> i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
> you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
> of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
> of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
> and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
> mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
> contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.
>
> thanks,
>   richard
>
> --
> rwe...@averillpark.net
> Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
> OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
> Java - Web Applications - Search
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Another useful tool might be to have a repository of local imagery servers that 
can automatically become available when in an appropriate area.

For instance, I use the 2014 NAIP imagery via a WMS server in JOSM. It’s only 
1m resolution, but it’s great for double checking that nothing has changed.

At smaller zoom levels, that might actually be a preferable default to always 
using bing, and having the imagery change, combined with imagery dates, draws 
attention to the fact that things might not always be current.

d.





> On Jun 11, 2015, at 07:54, Bryan Housel  wrote:
> 
> There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery 
> alongside the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most tile 
> providers, but we can get it from Bing in the response header.
> 
> Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at 
> implementing this.
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Bryan
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen > > wrote:
>> 
>> We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM 
>> editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of 
>> the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using 
>> older imagery.
>> 
>> Kristen
>> 
>> Sent from OWA on Android
>> 
>> From: Richard Welty mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net>>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
>> To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
>> Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers
>> 
>> please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
>> that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
>> 
>> yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
>> in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
>> aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
>> but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.
>> 
>> i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
>> imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
>> to, you know, read the README.
>> 
>> i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
>> you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
>> of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
>> of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
>> and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
>> mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
>> contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.
>> 
>> thanks,
>>   richard
>> 
>> --
>> rwe...@averillpark.net 
>> Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
>> OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
>> Java - Web Applications - Search
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Bryan Housel]

There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery alongside 
the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most tile providers, 
but we can get it from Bing in the response header.

Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at 
implementing this.
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492 


Thanks, Bryan



> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen  wrote:
> 
> We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM editing 
> applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the 
> imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using older 
> imagery.
> 
> Kristen
> 
> Sent from OWA on Android
> 
> From: Richard Welty 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
> To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
> Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers
> 
> please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
> that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
> 
> yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
> in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
> aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
> but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.
> 
> i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
> imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
> to, you know, read the README.
> 
> i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
> you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
> of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
> of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
> and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
> mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
> contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.
> 
> thanks,
>   richard
> 
> --
> rwe...@averillpark.net
> Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
> OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
> Java - Web Applications - Search
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Mike Thompson]

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Richard Welty 
wrote:

>
> i'd like a tag that we could use that has some editor support, it might
> be the
> case that  all we need is a pop up dialog when there's a README tag that
> says
> something like "Read this before committing: "
>
I like this suggestion.  I have not noticed any of my work undone by
armchair mappers, but it is something that has crossed my mind as there are
several trails that I have surveyed that have been rerouted recently, and
that rerouting is not reflected in the Bing imagery.

Mike
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Richard Welty]

On 6/11/15 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen wrote:
> We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM editing 
> applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the 
> imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using older 
> imagery.
>
i am not persuaded that these armchair mappers are paying attention. unless
there's a big warning "this imagery is X years old" that can't be
ignored, i think
the information will frequently be ignored.

i'd like a tag that we could use that has some editor support, it might
be the
case that  all we need is a pop up dialog when there's a README tag that
says
something like "Read this before committing: "

richard

-- 
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Kam, Kristen]

We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM editing 
applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the imagery 
collection would get folks to do a double take before using older imagery.

Kristen

Sent from OWA on Android

From: Richard Welty 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.

yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.

i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
to, you know, read the README.

i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.

thanks,
   richard

--
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us