Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Keith]

Krasimir,

It sounds a lot like nerves to me. Good Tango is obviously very important to 
you, but if you give the impression to the lady that it's a matter of life and 
death, she's going to get nervous. Try to get her to relax and just have 
some fun.

Keith, HK


 On Wed Jan 23 14:55 , Krasimir Stoyanov  sent:

>You missed the point. I said that she does what is needed for a good  
>dance, but not always. And I am puzzled why. She may dance well for a  
>tanda, or for the whole milonga, but then, it may be a week or more,  
>before it happens again. And, as I feel my feet shaking, I cannot  
>continue with the teaching, the foundation is not stable, if it  
>happens just by occation.
>


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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~]

Y'know,

I get so irritated with you people who are so arrogant and inconsiderate as to 
openly discuss and, indeed, have the affrontery to condemn world-class teachers 
in such a publicly derogatory manner!

Gustavo and Giselle-Anne are teachers at the top of their art. They are to 
tango what Muhammed Ali, Rocky Marciano etc were to boxing. They are what 
Sinatra, Torme, Eckstine, Basie, Goodman, Parker, Armstrong etc were to 
jazz/swing... what Shakespeare, Tennyson, Miller etc were to literature... what 
Hughes, Larkin, Owen, Byron etc were to poetry!

They are innovators! They took tango and evolved it! To improve, to mature, to 
achieve the ultimate everything needs to evolve. Get that into your head.

If you don't like them, that's your problem and distinct lack of taste and 
class. Don't be so tacky as to presume you are so much better than they that 
you can condemn them out of hand like some sort of poor-man's armchair critic!

Furthermore, I bet in a fight, Gustavo could kick shit out of your favourites 
anyway! So there!

Dani




Krasimir Stoyanov ?rta:

> No, I am not going to explain. If it is not obvious to you, all words
on

> this world will not make you see.

>> Compare this (tango in its truest form):

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-mGU_X8Mc
 

>> to anything from Fabian, Gustavo and company - I can't really say
they 

> dance

> tango.

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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Krasimir Stoyanov]

Quoting Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> They are innovators! They took tango and evolved it! To improve, to   
> mature, to achieve the ultimate everything needs to evolve. Get that  
>  into your head.

:-)
It is not evolution, it is degradation. Get that into your head.  
Putting some new elements on top of bad basic tango skills is a real  
comedy.

> Furthermore, I bet in a fight, Gustavo could kick shit out of your   
> favourites anyway! So there!

Real tango way of thinking! But no, if you know the tango technique in  
details, you would realize, that there are very many people that are  
far better than Gustavo. And in a hypotetic fight, they'll win. You  
are just blind to see it, because you youself don't have the level to.



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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Trini y Sean (PATangoS)]

--- Krasimir Stoyanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But no, if you know the tango
> technique in details, you would realize, that there are
very many people that are far better than Gustavo. 

Enough already!  If Gustavo or Fabian knew that people on
this list were arguing whether they were among the best
Argentine dancers in the world, they'd probably laugh. 
They both put TEACHING before PERFORMING.  I doubt they'd
think they were the ultimate technicians and could probably
point out others who they admire.  To me, this thread is
like comparing apple and oranges.

My own philosophy is that one shouldn't be criticizing
someone publicly unless you've told them the same criticism
to their face.  Otherwise, it's cowardly.  However, to say,
"I don't care for so-and-so because..." is okay since it's
expressing a personal opinion.  Opinions are often based on
personal experiences.  These experiences are different for
every person and should be respected.

Trini de Pittsburgh



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[Tango-L] Entering the pivot - The closing step

[Tango For Her]

--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Sorry, but I must be missing something here.
> 
> It seems to me that most of tango happens in step 2
> (extension).  This is when you communicate
> intention,
> direction, and velocity.  From here is also where
> torsion
> comes into play.  Obviously, you can play with all
> of the
> parts, but I still think that you can do more with
> extension than with closing.
> 
> I prefer to think of the parts of a step as being:
> - extension
> - weight transfer
> - closing
> - pivot
> 

No, you're not missing anything.  What you said is
important.  I posted this topic because I believe that
a leader can learn to focus more on his/her follower,
as opposed to focussing on steps, if movements are
related to the pivot.  

As for your comment about the step out of the pivot
being the *most important*, I agree that more happens
there.  I can accept calling it the most important
step. I think that alone would be a great topic. 

ENTERING THE PIVOT - THE CLOSING STEP

I want to add that, in striving for softness in each
step, the movement into the pivot (closing) is very
important.

For example, just walking around the dance floor with
your partner, if landing of the foot and the transfer
of weight on to the foot is concentrated on, then you
can make the dance softer.  

If/when I feel that I don't have the best connection
with my partner, I will do just that.  I will walk,
concentrating on removing the feeling of impact from
my partner's landing foot.  I will also concentrate on
the entire closing step.

The same goes for the common "rockstep, sidestep"
move.  How many times has your leader entered the
sidestep ahead of you?  How many times has there been
even the slightest thump to the side step?  This can
be fixed by concentrating on the step entering the
pivot (the closing step).





  

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[Tango-L] Peralta vs Gustavo -- is just art not science.

[Amaury de Siqueira]

Here in this list as in other places (living rooms,
classrooms, pubs,
restaurants) and under the rubric of other topics
(mostly the fine arts and
sometimes politics and religion) argumentation is
subjective to one's
experiences and learning process.  Unlike exact
sciences dance is art and
therefore subjective to one's interpretation.

I will comment on this a little later.  

The sad thing is to use dancers and their respective
efforts to achieve
excellence as a theme in a debasing exchange.  Lets
respect dancers for
achieving excellence through discipline and true
sacrifice.  Similarities
between their musical interpretation and our
preferences is secondary.

Having said that:  

I can see both sides.  Gustavo at times seems to push
the envelope
introducing dynamic and unorthodox movements. 
Beautifully executed, I
always enjoy viewing his dance.  I enjoy much less
observing less skilled
dancers in a crowded milonga trying to execute similar
moves with less
success.

Wasn't Copes also an agent of change when he
catapulted Argentine tango from
the social dance floor to the performance stage?

Fabian Peralta on the other hand execute a nice and
slow dance.  I also
enjoy watching his dance and btw I love Bahia Blanca
:-).  Both dancers are
excellent in what they do.  I am sure they can deliver
great performance in
either style.

Finally, I would like to ask the entire community of
dancers to show more
kindness and respect to the dance and each other. 
This brief exchange (and
disagreement) underscores a lack of tolerance and
respect that is not
positive to those witnessing.  

Best,
Amaury



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Krasimir Stoyanov
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:12 AM
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

Quoting Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> They are innovators! They took tango and evolved it!
To improve, to   
> mature, to achieve the ultimate everything needs to
evolve. Get that  
>  into your head.

:-)
It is not evolution, it is degradation. Get that into
your head.  
Putting some new elements on top of bad basic tango
skills is a real  
comedy.

> Furthermore, I bet in a fight, Gustavo could kick
shit out of your   
> favourites anyway! So there!

Real tango way of thinking! But no, if you know the
tango technique in  
details, you would realize, that there are very many
people that are  
far better than Gustavo. And in a hypotetic fight,
they'll win. You  
are just blind to see it, because you youself don't
have the level to.



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[Tango-L] An entire dance w/o a Cruzada

[Tango For Her]

--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What I found interesting in this video is that Ruben
>  leads his partner 
> in a walk to the Cruzada only once during the entire
> dance. He leads 
> the cross after Front Ochos and Ocho Cortados, but
> only once from 
> the walk. And, of course, he dances no Resolutions.
> 
> This si a good exercise for students - to dance an
> entire song without 
> a Cruzada or a Resolution. 
> 

Excellent!  This was part of my training when my
teacher was teaching about tortion and studying
Chicho.  He noticed that I was "resolving everything".
 What I learned from that was that I was thinking in
terms of patterns.  Patterns have definite endings.  

My instructor told me NOT to go to the cross.  What an
exercise!  It really opens your mind!  You get to step
3 and WHAM!  You're confronted with making a decision!
 You have 4 things you can do: step forward, side,
back or pivot.  It really makes you think on your
feet.

Next, you start being aware, at step 2, that you can
add even more variety!

Again, after those 5 lessons, when I went back out
dancing, everyone commented on how free and fun my
dancing was.

Good call, Keith!




  

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[Tango-L] what we can learn or not from different teachers/dancers

[Patricia Katz]

One can find good or bad with every teacher/dancer, whether world renown or 
not, depending on one's perspective (the same with singers, ballet dancers, 
musicians etc.),
depending on how a particular dancer & or teacher effects a person -- to bring 
out something new or touch one, that may give a new or different understanding 
- to increase one's dance vocabulary etc. We can all learn something, by even 
watching various dancers of different styles, good or bad: 
e.g. how NOT to execute a figure or how a certain posture seems clumsy, etc. as 
well as what seems interesting and useful and good to admire.
Patricia
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[Tango-L] An entire dance w/o a resolution or cruzada

[Patricia Katz]

Bravo! Many leaders who have been dancing for a few years are constantly 
resolving and or going to cruzada at "every possible moment" -- how boring!. I 
wonder why some teachers just rely on patterns etc. These followers can't seem 
to navigate very well.
Patricia
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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Trini y Sean (PATangoS)]

--- Krasimir Stoyanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You missed the point. I said that she does what is needed
> for a good  dance, but not always. And I am puzzled why.
She may dance well for a tanda, or for the whole milonga,
but then, it may be a week or more, before it happens
again. And, as I feel my feet shaking, I cannot continue
with the teaching, the foundation is not stable,if it  
> happens just by occasion.

And she's only been dancing/learning for about 2 months? 
Give her a break.  You try walking backwards all the time. 
I'd be more worried at 6 months.  Having one good day a
week isn't bad for a beginner.  

I second Keith's thoughts that she might be getting
nervous.  Or else she's bored and you are not keeping her
attention focused on you.  You can try using suspension,
subtle movements, or varying your step size and timing to
keep her focused on you.  It can be a useful exercise to
figure out what kind of day she's having (maybe her job was
stressful that day) and adjusting accordingly.

If you want to teach her to anticipate less, then when she
does go off on her own, let her go.  Loosen your embrace
and just stand there.  Wait until she's done, as if saying
"are you done, yet?".  It may mean that she stumbles or
falls into a step.  Let her.  Otherwise, she's not going to
figure out on her own that she anticipated.  From a
follower's perspective, that's going to be a more effective
learning tool than a guy who is constantly compensating for
her.  As long as you're still dancing at her level or
slightly above, it's fine.

Hope this helps.

Trini de Pittsburgh

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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Krasimir Stoyanov]

Quoting "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> --- Krasimir Stoyanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> But no, if you know the tango
>> technique in details, you would realize, that there are
> very many people that are far better than Gustavo.
>
> Enough already!

Enough of what? I have my own opinion and the right to express it.

> If Gustavo or Fabian knew that people on
> this list were arguing whether they were among the best
> Argentine dancers in the world, they'd probably laugh.

If they knew how much richer their dance could become, they'd stop laughing.
Now I laugh at their incompetence - it is really funny how they don't  
use simple, but powerful tools. Actually, they use them as we all do,  
they simply don't realize it happens - and therefore can't control the  
process. 99% of tango-dancers in the world are like that - doing  
things in semi-conscious manner. That's the result of learning by  
practice, while noone explains to them how it really works.

On the contrary, real masters know those tools, and use them  
consistently in a well-controlled manner.

About saying this in their faces?
How can I do this, when I have someone whose ego will 1000% stop him  
from paying the slightest attention to my words?




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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Krasimir Stoyanov]

Quoting "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> And she's only been dancing/learning for about 2 months?
> Give her a break.  You try walking backwards all the time.
> I'd be more worried at 6 months.  Having one good day a
> week isn't bad for a beginner.

Yeah, you may be right. It is just my impatience to have good dancing.  
I am really starving for it.

> Or else she's bored and you are not keeping her
> attention focused on you.  You can try using suspension,
> subtle movements, or varying your step size and timing to
> keep her focused on you.

I think it is the contrary, she is too focused. I do all kind of  
subtle things, and she thinks her job is to "detect" them. That makes  
her anxious she might miss to react accordingly. She does not seem to  
get my words that the subtle things would happen to her without her  
intervention, so she should be relaxed and not trying to feel them in  
advance.

> If you want to teach her to anticipate less, then when she
> does go off on her own, let her go.  Loosen your embrace
> and just stand there.  Wait until she's done, as if saying
> "are you done, yet?".

Doesn't help. She quickly realizes the mistake, but it wouldn't stop  
her from doing it again.

> It may mean that she stumbles or
> falls into a step.  Let her.  Otherwise, she's not going to
> figure out on her own that she anticipated.  From a
> follower's perspective, that's going to be a more effective
> learning tool than a guy who is constantly compensating for
> her.  As long as you're still dancing at her level or
> slightly above, it's fine.

This is difficult to me, I simply cannot lower my level - actually I  
can, but it is boring to me. And I cannot hide it. Imagine what  
happens when the lady detects I am bored? Real disaster :-).

And my believe is we should execute all the steps correctly (I am not  
saying perfectly, just correctly) in order for her body to memorize  
and automate the movements. But how can you automate something, if you  
do it correctly say, 20% of the time? And 80% incorrectly? The right  
habits are erased by the bad. Really weird stuff.

Actually, I know one working solution - she needs a good environment,  
a bunch of good leaders to dance with. But, so far it's only me. There  
is one leader I teach to, but he is not very serious, taking two  
lessons a month is not enough I think.



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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Astrid]

> It is not evolution, it is degradation. Get that into your head.
> Putting some new elements on top of bad basic tango skills is a real
> comedy.
...And in a hypotetic fight, they'll win. You
> are just blind to see it, because you youself don't have the level to.

Krasimir and Co:
if you guys were skilled in discussion or debate at all, you would be wise 
enough to add "in my opinion" or IMO in list lingo, instead of getting on 
our nerves with your sweeping statements.

>
>
>
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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Trini y Sean (PATangoS)]

--- Krasimir Stoyanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Enough of what? I have my own opinion and the right to
> express it.

You have already.  And again and again and again and again
and again, without adding anything new.  Try saying
something new or take it offline if you want to continue
arguing.


> About saying this in their faces?
> How can I do this, when I have someone whose ego will
> 1000% stop him  
> from paying the slightest attention to my words?

That's simply an excuse, not a reason.  Doesn't make it any
less cowardly.  Besides, you don't know anything about
their ego unless you've actually tried it.  

I'm done paying attention to this part of the thread.

Trini de Pittsburgh


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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Trini y Sean (PATangoS)]

I'm sorry, I meant to say "take it off-list" rather than
"take it offline".

Trini de Pittsburgh


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[Tango-L] men who pull to their left

[Mario]

Keith, many thanks for the interesting observations on Ruben's dance
   This sort of analyses is what I'm trying to do while watching Youtube.
   By 'resolution' do you mean the steps 7 and 8 of the infamous basic?
   
  "What I found interesting in this video is that Ruben  leads his partner 
in a walk to the Cruzada only once during the entire dance. He leads 
the cross after Front Ochos and Ocho Cortados, but only once from 
the walk. And, of course, he dances no Resolutions.

This si a good exercise for students - to dance an entire song without 
a Cruzada or a Resolution." - Keith 

   
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[Tango-L] Learning Tango

[Mario]

Thanks for the great write-up on Navigation!...yes, I love turns!  Turns and 
walking is all that I do,  the advice about single axis close turns will give 
me something to work on.. thanks again!
   
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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~]

Astrid,
 
In my opinion, in fact, IMO, in fact, IMHO... your talking rubbish! I 
appreciate your opinion... but... in your case an opinion is always an opinion 
until it talks too much... just like krasimir or whatever his name is. The very 
art of debate naturally presumes that the point being made IS that person's own 
opinion. If not, it would be qualified by referring to the source of the point.
 
I've debated competitively at international level and I know what I'm talking 
about!
 
While we're at it, krapimir, in response to your arrogant diatribe response to 
my posting... what make YOU, little ol' YOU the authority??? Your opinion is 
biased and a personal opinion - NOT an expert opinion. However, even if it 
were, GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD that you've no right to publicly condemn those who 
promote and develop tango. What have YOU done for tango excpet criticise and 
posting belching platitudes that seem to serve only for the sake of your own 
inflated ego to 'attempt to' elevate your seeming (yet perhaps even obvious) 
artificial intellect to others on this List.
 
Furthermore, IMHO, you are senseless enough to attack my tango knowledge and 
yet you know nothing about me. You behave as though stupidity were a virtue... 
why is that?
 
Dani
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[Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation...

[desdelasnubes]

>I am desperate, and I don't think anyone can help, it is the job of the 
>follower to stop guessing and anticipating - the correct technique is in 
>place to make the movement the right way, but she's simply not using it. The 
>second she "decides" to do something, she just ignores the skills I thought 
>to her. Yes, I know she is too new in tango, but these kind of going from 0% 
>to 100% and back from dance to dance are something I have no idea how to 
>deal with.

>Is this because she lacks the talent needed?

As followers we love to dance with GENTLEmen that are as gentle as they can 
possibly be.
What is encouraging for a follower? It is to feel the confidence that the gentle
generous experienced leader conveys to her. The most gentle of leaders make the
follower relax. 
The most gentle of leaders will give the follower the feeling that she is a 
queen. Una reina.
Does a queen have to bother about a mistake? The generous leader will tell her 
with a gentle smile: 
it is all in the leader's responsibilty. 
What is the core of anticipation? It is a follower that tries to meet the 
expectation of the 
leader. 
This is very common for beginners but not only for beginners. 
Followers are very sensitive to the feelings conveyed. A follower can sense 
your impatience, your
horror of her anticipation. A sensitive follower will sense you questioning her 
talent. 
And the result will be worse. How can you expect a follower to relax when she 
has 
sensed she does not have the leaders' confidence and she cannot count on his 
gentle generosity? 

It might take time for a follower to come to understand she is not there 
to meet the expectation of an impatient leader ;)
But to enjoy dancing. 

Anna







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[Tango-L] Apts?...Belle Epoque

[Jerry Combs]

Does anybody know anything about these apartments?
I've heard several unhappy stories that they are not
what they seem. I'm curious because a tanguera friend
from Minnesota is planning her first trip to BA and
saw the ads for these places on Tango-A. Good deal,
bad deal -any  feedback would be much appreciated.

saludos,
Jerry


  Yahoo! Encuentros.

Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho más fácil, probá el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros 
http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration

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Re: [Tango-L] Beginning follower (was Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo)

[Trini y Sean (PATangoS)]

--- Krasimir Stoyanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think it is the contrary, she is too focused. I do all
> kind of subtle things, and she thinks her job is to
"detect" them. That makes her anxious she might miss to
react accordingly. 

Sounds more like nerves, then.  When I feel my partner (man
or woman) getting tense, I start humming to the music.  Or
I'll play with up/down movements to create a flying
sensation (with an occasional sound effect).  I try to
signal that I'm relaxed and trying to have fun, which
they'll often pick up on and reflect back.  And, of course,
nothing more than simple walking, check steps, until
they're relaxed.

You're right about not letting her feel that you're bored. 


Good luck,
Trini de Pittsburgh


PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
  Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh’s most popular social dance!
  http://patangos.home.comcast.net/
   



  

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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Krasimir Stoyanov]

Sorry, but you were the one to attack me first. And you used the offensive 
phrase "get IT into your head". 

IT WAS into my head.

Several years ago they were my idols too, until I started to see the difference 
between real and fake masters. Then IT went out of my head.

So I was where you are know, but you have never been where I am now.

I am not forcing anyone to think like me, you are free to like whoever dancer 
you want to.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ 
  Furthermore, you are senseless enough to attack my tango knowledge and yet 
you know nothing about me. You behave as though stupidity were a virtue... why 
is that?

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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation...

[Krasimir Stoyanov]

I do not agree about the queen thing, but for everything else, you are 
right.
I keep telling her that I don't care about the random mistakes, so there is 
no need for her preoccupation, it's the systematic ones that bother me . . .


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> As followers we love to dance with GENTLEmen that are as gentle as they 
> can possibly be.
> What is encouraging for a follower? It is to feel the confidence that the 
> gentle
> generous experienced leader conveys to her. The most gentle of leaders 
> make the
> follower relax.
> The most gentle of leaders will give the follower the feeling that she is 
> a queen. Una reina.
> Does a queen have to bother about a mistake? The generous leader will tell 
> her with a gentle smile:
> it is all in the leader's responsibilty.
> What is the core of anticipation? It is a follower that tries to meet the 
> expectation of the
> leader.
> This is very common for beginners but not only for beginners.
> Followers are very sensitive to the feelings conveyed. A follower can 
> sense your impatience, your
> horror of her anticipation. A sensitive follower will sense you 
> questioning her talent.
> And the result will be worse. How can you expect a follower to relax when 
> she has
> sensed she does not have the leaders' confidence and she cannot count on 
> his gentle generosity?
>
> It might take time for a follower to come to understand she is not there
> to meet the expectation of an impatient leader ;)
> But to enjoy dancing.

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Re: [Tango-L] Apts?...Belle Epoque

[Dubravko Kakarigi]

If you are talking about the ones on Ayacucho and Lavalle owned by
Elizabeth, apart from occasional unforeseen snag which can happen
anywhere, I have had nothing but the best experience. As a matter of
fact I am returning there in two weeks. Location is perfect - I love it.



...dubravko

P.S. This advert paid in full by . just kidding :-)
 

===

seek, appreciate, and create beauty

   this life is not a rehearsal

===



- Original Message 

From: Jerry Combs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: tango-l@mit.edu

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:27:57 AM

Subject: [Tango-L] Apts?...Belle Epoque



 Does  anybody  know  anything  about  these  apartments?

I've  heard  several  unhappy  stories  that  they  are  not

what  they  seem.  I'm  curious  because  a  tanguera  friend

from  Minnesota  is  planning  her  first  trip  to  BA  and

saw  the  ads  for  these  places  on  Tango-A.  Good  deal,

bad  deal  -any   feedback  would  be  much  appreciated.



saludos,

Jerry





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Ahora  encontrar  pareja  es  mucho  más  fácil,  probá  el  nuevo  Yahoo!  
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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation...

[Jay Rabe]

I thought this was so great I thought it needed to be emphasized.

Anna wrote (paraphrased):

 Followers feel the confidence that the gentle, generous, experienced leader 
conveys to her.
The most gentle of leaders make the follower relax. 

The core of anticipation: a follower that tries to meet the expectation of the 
leader. 

Followers are very sensitive to the feelings conveyed. A follower can sense 
your impatience, your
horror of her anticipation. 
A sensitive follower will sense you questioning her talent. And the result will 
be worse. How can you expect a follower to relax when she has sensed she does 
not have the leaders' confidence and she cannot count on his gentle generosity? 


Excellent, Anna. Thank you for the clarity.



  J
  TangoMoments.com




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Re: [Tango-L] Apts?...Belle Epoque

[MACFroggy]

Hi Jerry,
I don't know about this one, but I do know about a cute and cozy and quiet 
one-bedroom that my tanguero friend Raimundo rents. It's on Corrientes and 
Junin, very close to El Beso, El Arranque, Porteno.
It's $160/wk and includes everything: cable, internet, maid, etc.
You can see photos (not the best) on my blog:
http://tangocherie.blogspot.com/2007/11/tanguero-apartment-for-rent-milonguero
.html

In a message dated 1/23/08 1:28:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Does anybody know anything about these apartments?
> I've heard several unhappy stories that they are not
> what they seem. I'm curious because a tanguera friend
> from Minnesota is planning her first trip to BA and
> saw the ads for these places on Tango-A. Good deal,
> bad deal -any  feedback would be much appreciated.
> 
> saludos,
> Jerry
> 
> 
>       Yahoo! Encuentros.
> 
> 


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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo

[Chris, UK]

> you've no right to publicly condemn those who promote and develop tango.

Let's see if I understand you correctly, Dani. Krasimir has no right to 
publicly condemn those who promote and develop tango... but you have the 
right to publicly commend them? ;)

--
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Re: [Tango-L] Apts?...Belle Epoque

[Chris, UK]

> Does anybody know anything about these apartments?
> I've heard several unhappy stories that they are not what they seem.

I've no knowledge of these apartments specifically but have heard of 
plenty of BA accomodation for tango travellers suffering from damp, noise, 
heat and poor security unsurprisingly not mentioned in the promo info.

> what they seem. I'm curious because a tanguera friend
> from Minnesota is planning her first trip to BA and

May I recommend Casa De Deby? I stayed there a few months ago and found it 
great - good location, comfort, facilites, security and excellent value 
for money. And a charming and friendly hostess you can ask for such 
important tango tourist information as where to find the best haircuts, 
shoes, restaurants and the shrine of Marina Palmer ;)

Details at http://www.lavidacondeby.com/Home/welcome.htm .

--
Chris
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[Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Virginia Nicholson]

Hi there,

This is my first posting to the tango L-list so be nice!

I have a question...I'm a follower and I've been dancing for about two
years. I've been practicing with a steady partner, but I still go to
milongas and dance with other people, so I can tell that my partner
and I lack the deep connection that I sometimes experience with my
favorite leaders, that sense of a silent conversation. My partner has
good balance and posture and has been dancing for a long time, though
mostly in open embrace...now we're trying a mix of open and close. I'm
not sure what's wrong. It's good - just not great. Do any of you
leaders have any advice? or suggestions for how a to strengthen the
connection? I apologize for covering what must be well-worn ground.

Best, VSN
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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir, peralta vs gustavo - Let this be a lesson to ye... a lesson in life!

[Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~]

> Let's see if I understand you correctly, Dani. Krasimir has no right to 
> publicly condemn those who promote and develop tango... but you have > the 
> right to publicly commend them? ;) Chris

Why is it that some people on this List seem to have a brain malfunction that 
'oh-so-conveniently' allows them to misinterpret, manipulate and twist peoples' 
postings to fit their own warped requirements when they obviously are unable to 
find any wrong in the posting in question? But, Chris, you know all this... 
after all, you tried to cover your ignorance be putting in a 'wink' at the end 
- 'just in case', although really deep down you meant what you said and must 
now be an avid supporter of Krashi.

Okay, you are perfectly correct...Kasi has no - moral - right to "publicly 
condemn those who promote and develop tango"
Read on...

i.   In my response to Krapimir, I did not commend G&G-A although even if I did 
...so what? I merely chastised the guy for being arrogant enough to think 
himself such a great tango critic that he can publicly condemn and grade (or, 
in this case, de-grade) some of the world's leading tango exponents (and I, 
personally, along with many others including other top tango 
teachers/performers/dancers do indeed regard them in this light... like them or 
not). Christopher, before you embarrass yourself by posting nonsense, try 
re-reading the post to which you intend replying, and then re-read your own 
response before posting. Let this be a lesson to ye... a lesson in life!

ii.  I did indeed defend G and G-A against *your* unnecessary and incorrect 
poison a while back, and in this... yes, you are perfectly correct... I can and 
I see nothing wrong in it... only good! The reason would be that I am posting 
nothing derogatory and negative. If I did not like any particular 
dancers/teachers (and, believe me, there are some)... I would simply keep my 
mouth shut and say nothing. Let this be a lesson to ye... a lesson in life.

Post positivity, not negativity... unless, like me, you are confronted by and 
responding to nutters. Or, if you can't, kepp your gob shut.
Let this be a lesson to ye... a lesson in life!

Dani
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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation...

[Astrid]

>I do not agree about the queen thing, but for everything else, you are
> right.
> I keep telling her that I don't care about the random mistakes, so there 
> is
> no need for her preoccupation, it's the systematic ones that bother me . . 
> .
>
One of the most important qualities in learning how to follow is trust. And 
it is VERY hard to trust when it feels more like the blind are leading the 
blind. Maybe you should watch how she does with a better dancer than you? 

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[Tango-L] Belle Epoque apartments for temporary rental in Buenos Aires

[Janis Kenyon]

Jerry wrote:
Does anybody know anything about these apartments?
I've heard several unhappy stories that they are not
what they seem. I'm curious because a tanguera friend
from Minnesota is planning her first trip to BA and
saw the ads for these places on Tango-A. Good deal,
bad deal -any  feedback would be much appreciated.


I know the street corner of Ayacucho and Lavalle, but I have never seen the
apartments.  If you want to sleep after being out dancing until 3:00 in the
morning, this isn't the location for you.  There are bus lines on both
streets.  That means constant traffic and pollution.  If you have heard this
from those who have rented there, then believe it.

The apartments are advertised as being in Barrio Norte.  They are located in
the El Once wholesale shopping district of the barrio Balvanera, one block
from Corrientes which is the main street to downtown.  The apartments are
two blocks to El Beso, but that is one of the most difficult milongas to
break into as a tourist.  They are close to La Nacional, but the milonga is
not worth attending.  Nino Bien is mainly tourists.

The going rate on temporary rentals is about $800USD per month.  The Belle
Epoque apartments at $930 and $1,200 are overpriced in my opinion.  I know
of other nice apartments for less than what Laura Chummers charges.


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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Tango For Her]

--- Virginia Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> This is my first posting to the tango L-list so be
> nice!
> 
> I have a question...I'm a follower and I've been
> dancing for about two
> years. I've been practicing with a steady partner,
> but I still go to
> milongas and dance with other people, so I can tell
> that my partner
> and I lack the deep connection that I sometimes
> experience with my
> favorite leaders, that sense of a silent
> conversation. My partner has
> good balance and posture and has been dancing for a
> long time, though
> mostly in open embrace...now we're trying a mix of
> open and close. I'm
> not sure what's wrong. It's good - just not great.
> Do any of you
> leaders have any advice? or suggestions for how a to
> strengthen the
> connection? I apologize for covering what must be
> well-worn ground.
> 

ANYONE WRITING FOR THE FIRST TIME:

Don't worry about the "experts" on here trashing you
if you ask a question.  They only desire to trash each
other.  I sure wish this list could be more
constructive.  One way to accomplish that is for
everyone out there to keep them busy with new
questions.  PLEASE!

Virginia,

I have a couple of answers to your question.  

If the two of you are close enough that you can be
honest, then, suggest a series of close embrace
private lessons working on slow, deliberate movements,
like just walking to the cross.  If you can find a
very good teacher, she will correct the smallest of
connection details.

You could also suggest taking a dance, once in a
while, to just walk in close embrace.  Let the focus
be on the connection.  He should be concentrating on
removing any jolt from each backstep of yours.  It's
like what I described in an earlier post about walking
like a cat.  He should put all of his energy into
feeling the movement all the way through the step.  He
will find that he is using more parts of his body than
he was aware of.

Good luck!






 




  

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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Jay Rabe]

I've been in the same situation. It seemed like something must be wrong if I 
had better connections when dancing with strangers than with my regular dance 
partner and "significant other". But talking to other people confirmed it's a 
common phenomenon.

I analyzed it to a couple of things. First, I did a lot of practicing with my 
regular partner, trying to work out new moves, trying to perfect technique. 
That sort of set the stage, set the expectations, that  then made it difficult, 
when dancing socially, to shift gears. I would forget to do what TFH suggested, 
"Let the focus be on the connection." When you have built up a habit or 
customary behavior of practicing steps and technique, you have to make a 
concerted conscious effort to focus instead on making a good connection. 

The second and related thing is the "familiarity breeds contempt" thing. While 
it presumably doesn't go as far as contempt, it's difficult to avoid taking 
things for granted, to quit paying full attention because you've done and felt 
all these moves so many times before. It's difficult to be surprised. With a 
new partner, you pay more attention to each other precisely because you're new 
to each other - you don't know what to expect. That paying attention creates 
the atmosphere for a good connection. 

I suggest your partner try out new moves by himself or with someone besides 
you, then he can have a repertoire to surprise you with. But mostly, just pay 
more attention to each other. Again as TFH said, just slow down. Tiny movements 
and playfulness can create great connection.

  J
 TangoMoments.com


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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Keith]

Virginia,

An excellent exercise to strenghthen the connection is to practice with 
the man's right arm behind his back, while the woman maintains her normal 
close embrace. This exercise really forces the couple to concentrate on 
the connection and, the first time you try it, you'll probably realise just 
how weak your connection really is. But the exercise should bring about 
a rapid improvement and make you both feel a lot more confident and 
comfortable in close embrace. 

Keith, HK

 On Thu Jan 24  1:09 , "Virginia Nicholson"  sent:

. Do any of you
>leaders have any advice? or suggestions for how a to strengthen the
>connection? >

>Best, VSN


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[Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Mario]

..of course this good advice goes for the sexual connection, too.

 

I've been in the same situation.

 It seemed like something must be wrong if I had better connections when 
dancing with strangers than with my regular dance partner and "significant 
other".

 But talking to other people confirmed it's a common phenomenon. I analyzed 
it to a couple of things. First, I did a lot of practicing with my regular 
partner, trying to work out new moves, trying to perfect technique. That sort 
of set the stage, set the expectations, that  then made it difficult, when 
dancing socially, to shift gears.

 I would forget to do what TFH suggested, "Let the focus be on the connection." 
When you have built up a habit or customary behavior of practicing steps and 
technique, you have to make a concerted conscious effort to focus instead on 
making a good connection. The second and related thing is the "familiarity 
breeds contempt" thing. While it presumably doesn't go as far as contempt, it's 
difficult to avoid taking things for granted, to quit paying full attention 
because you've done and felt all these moves so many times before. It's 
difficult to be surprised. With a new partner, you pay more attention to each 
other precisely because you're new to each other - you don't know what to 
expect. That paying attention creates the atmosphere for a good connection. 
I suggest your partner try out new moves by himself or with someone besides 
you, then he can have a repertoire to surprise you with. But mostly, just pay 
more attention to each other. Again as TFH said, just slow
 down. 

 Tiny movements and playfulness can create great connection.  J 
  TangoMoments.com

   
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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Tango For Her]

--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Virginia,
> 
> An excellent exercise to strenghthen the connection
> is to practice with 
> the man's right arm behind his back, while the woman
> maintains her normal 
> close embrace. This exercise really forces the
> couple to concentrate on 
> the connection and, the first time you try it,
> you'll probably realise just 
> how weak your connection really is. But the exercise
> should bring about 
> a rapid improvement and make you both feel a lot
> more confident and 
> comfortable in close embrace. 
> 

Nice!  He'll have to maintain the connection with his
chest rather than his frame.  It is a great way to
strengthen the connection.



  

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[Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Mario]

Great idea Keith, I'm definately going to try this one!

An excellent exercise to strenghthen the connection is to practice with   the 
man's right arm behind his back, while the woman maintains her normal   close 
embrace. This exercise really forces the couple to concentrate on   the 
connection and, the first time you try it, you'll probably realise just   how 
weak your connection really is. But the exercise should bring about   a rapid 
improvement and make you both feel a lot more confident and   comfortable in 
close embrace.   -Keith, HK  

   
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[Tango-L] Responding to/with a quote

[Mario]

I notice that when I cut and paste a quote, into my email, to respond to; the 
quote
  gets strung out into a long unreadable string.
  How do others repond with the quote being in a nice visable box-like 
formation? thks

   
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Re: [Tango-L] Belle Epoque apartments for temporary rental in Buenos Aires

[Tom Stermitz]

I have stayed at Laura's apartment at the corner of Ayacucho & Lavalle.

It is a clean, lovely (not quite elegant), medium-sized apartment in a  
historic building with an iron elevator. Buenos Aires has a lot of  
these pretty, ca 1900 Paris-style buildings

It is quite centrally located. Easy to walk downtown or to several  
milongas. Not easy to walk to Nino Bien, but you probably want to use  
a taxi to that neighborhood. Corrientes is one block over.

The street corner is full of traffic, but that description covers  
about 99% of centrally-located Buenos Aires corners. For quiet  
anywhere near the center of town, you need to choose an interior  
courtyard. Also, approximately 99% of central Buenos Aires streets  
have lots of shopping and restaurants on the main floor.

Welcome to city life.

It is certainly worthwhile getting personal recommendations about any  
place you intend to stay. Someone like Laura or a rental agency has  
enough of a track record that you aren't going to be screwed on refund  
of deposit. Some of these places insist on cash for all or partial  
rent and deposit. You may have more recourse if you can pay by credit  
card. As I recall, Laura had you pay to her US bank account (she is  
American).


Breaking into the milongas is a completely different issue.

The boleo-gancho-back-sacada sequences don't get you very far at most  
milongas.

Yeah, El Beso is a bit tough to break into, even if you dance  
reasonably well. That can be true at a number of other milongas,  
(unless you are young and blonde, but that's not telling you anything  
new).

Some of the afternoon milongas are fairly easier to break into,  
assuming you have fundamentally decent skills. Not to get into a  
polemic about it, but that means, close, tidy, musical social dancing  
"the way they do it in Buenos Aires". If you dance this way, it is  
still a surprise to a lot of Buenos Aires dancers. They still have  
this prejudice that foreigners have no clue about tango They  
probably have plenty of bad examples to generalize from.

To be even handed, I've noticed that a lot of social dancers in Buenos  
Aires have pretty bad technique (ow, my aching back). I would say that  
is an illustration of why women shouldn't try to learn "just dancing".


On Jan 23, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Janis Kenyon wrote:

> Jerry wrote:
> Does anybody know anything about these apartments?
> I've heard several unhappy stories that they are not
> what they seem. I'm curious because a tanguera friend
> ...
>
> I know the street corner of Ayacucho and Lavalle, but I have never  
> seen the
> apartments.  If you want to sleep after being out dancing until 3:00  
> in the
> morning, this isn't the location for you.  There are bus lines on both
> streets.  That means constant traffic and pollution.  If you have  
> heard this
> from those who have rented there, then believe it.
>
> The apartments are advertised as being in Barrio Norte.  They are  
> located in
> the El Once wholesale shopping district of the barrio Balvanera, one  
> block
> from Corrientes which is the main street to downtown.  The  
> apartments are
> two blocks to El Beso, but that is one of the most difficult  
> milongas to
> break into as a tourist.  They are close to La Nacional, but the  
> milonga is
> not worth attending.  Nino Bien is mainly tourists.

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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation...

[Tango For Her]

--- Astrid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >I do not agree about the queen thing, but for
> everything else, you are
> > right.
> > I keep telling her that I don't care about the
> random mistakes, so there 
> > is
> > no need for her preoccupation, it's the systematic
> ones that bother me . . 
> > .
> >

Here is one of my basic beliefs:

A movement consists of a lot of small communications. 
I communicate to her and she communicates back to me,
and so on. 

So, as we move through a step, WE collaborate.  WE
both did the best that WE could do.  Therefore, there
is no reason to place the blame on her.

Did she do something that I did not intend?  Fine.

Next time, I will try harder to communicate my
intentions a little better.

My partners, as far as I know, believe in me.  Why? 
Because, we are always doing the right movement.  How
do I know this?  Because, all the way through the
movement, WE agreed on it, together  

If I want something to be different, I will try harder
to communicate.  If it still does not work. Then,
perhaps, there is something for ME to learn!

Don't blame the follower!  You are so lucky to have
her!!!









  

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Re: [Tango-L] Responding to/with a quote

[Jay Rabe]

I haven't had this problem with Tango-L, but in other similar situations I cut 
and paste the string first into a text editor like notepad, then cut it from 
there and paste it into my mail editor. I'm sure there are more elegant ways of 
accomplishing it, but that works for me.

   J
  TangoMoments.com


> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:16:22 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: [Tango-L] Responding to/with a quote
> 
> I notice that when I cut and paste a quote, into my email, to respond to; the 
> quote
>   gets strung out into a long unreadable string.
>   How do others repond with the quote being in a nice visable box-like 
> formation? thks
> 
>
> -
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
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Re: [Tango-L] Belle Epoque apartments for temporary rental in Buenos Aires

[Dubravko Kakarigi]

 
- Original Message 

From: Tom Stermitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

...

> It  is  quite  centrally  located.  Easy  to  walk  downtown  or  to  several 
>  milongas.  Not  easy  to  walk  to  Nino  Bien,  but  you  probably  want  
> to  use  
a  taxi  to  that  neighborhood.  Corrientes  is  one  block  over.



Talking about milongas in the neighborhood - El Arranque, an excellent
afternoon milonga, is just three blocks away on the other side of
Corrientes. Also, there are several places within easy walking distance of 
Ayachucho y Lavalle where various good teachers teach group
classes.

...dubravko
===

seek, appreciate, and create beauty

   this life is not a rehearsal

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[Tango-L] does a leader nead to insist on the lead (was Krasimir vs anticipation..).

[peter jouliard]

From: "Tango For Her"
> A movement consists of a lot of small communications.
> I communicate to her and she communicates back to me,
> and so on.
> 
> Did she do something that I did not intend?  Fine.
>
> Next time, I will try harder to communicate my
> intentions a little better.

YES,
and even more: why not simply accept what she did/proposed.
If it is true, as mentioned by others, that I invite her for a movement,
she does the movement  and I follow her; now she does another movement and I 
follow her as well, what would be wrong with that.
The only thing I would like to see in a scenario like that is, that she 
consciously does what she does,
that it is not an automatism. But even then, if we dance, we do it for 
pleasure, I hope, and then there is no wrong in following her.
peter

ps: this is not anticipation. I am talking about communication and like in 
every sincere communication the other may change the subject or explore it 
in a way different from mine.
. 

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Re: [Tango-L] does a leader nead to insist on the lead (was Krasimir vs anticipation..).

[Alexis Cousein]

peter jouliard wrote:
> From: "Tango For Her"
>> A movement consists of a lot of small communications.
>> I communicate to her and she communicates back to me,
>> and so on.
>> 
>> Did she do something that I did not intend?  Fine.
>>
>> Next time, I will try harder to communicate my
>> intentions a little better.
> 
> YES,
> and even more: why not simply accept what she did/proposed.
> If it is true, as mentioned by others, that I invite her for a movement,
> she does the movement  and I follow her; now she does another movement and I 
> follow her as well, what would be wrong with that.
> The only thing I would like to see in a scenario like that is, that she 
> consciously does what she does,
> that it is not an automatism. 

Quite. But if she wants to do that, she also needs to take over the lead - i.e.
offer enough resistance to force you to listen, and then propose, listen to see
whether you get it, etc.. Not many followers are actually trained to do that
well.

And even when it's communicated well, some leaders (not me) don't like a
macha ;).


-- 
Alexis Cousein  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Engineer/Solutions Architect SGI/Silicon Graphics
--


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Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation... correction

[Tango For Her]

In my last post on this subject, I cut-n-paste too
quickly and ended up with Astrid's name as the author
to Kasimir's quote.  Sorry, Astrid!


> 
> --- Kasimir wrote:
> 
> > >I do not agree about the queen thing, but for
> > everything else, you are
> > > right.
> > > I keep telling her that I don't care about the
> > random mistakes, so there 
> > > is
> > > no need for her preoccupation, it's the
> systematic
> > ones that bother me . . 
> > > .
> > >
> 

Then, I wrote:

> Here is one of my basic beliefs:
> 
> A movement consists of a lot of small
> communications. 
> I communicate to her and she communicates back to
> me,
> and so on. 
> 
> So, as we move through a step, WE collaborate.  WE
> both did the best that WE could do.  Therefore,
> there
> is no reason to place the blame on her.
> 
> Did she do something that I did not intend?  Fine.
> 
> Next time, I will try harder to communicate my
> intentions a little better.
> 
> My partners, as far as I know, believe in me.  Why? 
> Because, we are always doing the right movement. 
> How
> do I know this?  Because, all the way through the
> movement, WE agreed on it, together  
> 
> If I want something to be different, I will try
> harder
> to communicate.  If it still does not work. Then,
> perhaps, there is something for ME to learn!
> 
> Don't blame the follower!  You are so lucky to have
> her!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
>
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> 
> 
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> 



  

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[Tango-L] bell epoque apartment

[TimmyTango]

Joanne and I have stayed in this apartment and we will not return.
The apartment is very nice, but there are to many other factors which turn us 
away. The apartment is nice, with high ceiling. The Elevator is unique and 
picturesque.

Some neighborhood reasons are the bus lines and the exhaust fumes. A police 
station right around the corner and the sirens. Across the street across from 
our apartment is a recording studio. And when we were there last, they were 
recording loud music with drums and guitar and constantly editing the tapes 
over 
and over. This went on for sometimes 24 hours.
We also have private issues with the land lady but I will keep these private. 
I will answer any letters privately if you write me. Since we have been there 
have also found several unhappy tenants.
If you are going to BsAs, figure out just how much time you intend to stay in 
the apartment you rent. Most just need a place to sleep and don't need a 
place this expensive. 

If you are traveling to BsAs, Joanne and I highly recommend

I highly recommend Casa de Deby. There isn't a place in the city that gives 
you what she does for the money. Deby is very personal, charming, very good 
looking, and keeps a very clean apartment on the 17th floor  in her high-rise. 
She also acts as a tour guide helping your travels in the city and the milongas.
Check her out
www.lavidacondeby.com

Another apartment I highly recommend, is also on Ayacucho but in Recoleto, 
walking distance to the cemetery Recoleto. One block from the Hotel Plaza 
Alvier. An extremely safe neighborhood.
Door man, maid service, A safe for your belonging, Internet, the works.
Marie Longo owns the apartment, and you can trust her.
Check this place out.
 http://www.ayacuchotango.com/";>www.ayacuchotango.com

Timmy in Cleveland **Start the year off right.  
Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
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Re: [Tango-L] Belle Epoque apartments for temporary rental in Buenos Aires

[Tom Stermitz]

I have found that the natives are relatively friendly at El Arranque.

That location is in use several times per week, presumably under  
different organizers.


On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Dubravko Kakarigi wrote:

> Talking about milongas in the neighborhood - El Arranque, an excellent
> afternoon milonga, is just three blocks away on the other side of
> Corrientes. Also, there are several places within easy walking  
> distance of Ayachucho y Lavalle where various good teachers teach  
> group
> classes.
>
> ...dubravko
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[Tango-L] Views of Berlin Tango Festival (May 2008)

[june es]

Would love any comments about this festival from anyone with past experience of 
this festival, as I am planning to go there. It appears to be on a smaller 
scale than last year's - is my perception valid?
 
http://www.tangofestivalberlin.de/2008/?eng=home
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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Michael]

Virginia:
Connection is not something that can be taught. That's like teaching somebody 
to savor a particular wine. Either you like the wine or you don't. Connection 
is a chemistry between partners. Chemistry isn't always present with every 
partner. This where the expression "it takes two to tango" comes from, IMHO. 
Each partner has to be comfortable within before there can be chemistry with 
somebody else. As my former teacher, Joe, said "We have to be able to embrace 
ourselves before we can embrace others." Dancing in close embrace doesn't 
guarantee chemistry. I don't understand how there can be chemistry without 
close embrace.

Frankly, close embrace can be absolutely frightening for beginners. It takes 
time to get used to it. I suggest you tell your partner not to concentrate on 
the latest figure taught in class or a private lesson, and just concentrate on 
you. You shouldn't concentrate on boleos, just concentrate on your partner. 
Practice to Di Sarli. His music is slow and emotional. Here is an example of my 
favorite "El Jaguel"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2aSbUNNO1A

The couple did virtually NOTHING. (Yeah, a few valcaldas were slipped in.) 
Nothing was rushed. DiSarli knows how to pull on my heart. Just listen to the 
opening chords. They sound like the Greek Sirens calling out to sailors to 
crash their boats on the rocks.

Connection is a combination of partner and music.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Virginia Nicholson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection


This is my first posting to the tango L-list so be nice!

I've been practicing with a steady partner, but I still go to
milongas and dance with other people, so I can tell that my partner
and I lack the deep connection that I sometimes experience with my
favorite leaders, that sense of a silent conversation. My partner has
good balance and posture and has been dancing for a long time, though
mostly in open embrace...now we're trying a mix of open and close.  Do any of 
you
leaders have any advice? or suggestions for how a to strengthen the
connection? 
Best, VSN

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Re: [Tango-L] bell epoque apartment

[Jerry Combs]

Janis, you and Timmy have confirmed what I have
learned from several other past renters' of these
apts. The pollution and noise is unnecessary, as there
are plentiful apts. to rent that face the back of the
building in central Buenos Aires. 
More troublesome, however, are the problems with the
landlady, which I will not go into publicly in this
forum, either. Anyone, needing details or a shoulder
to cry on, can write me personally.
Thanks for everyone's response. 

saludos,
Jerry



  Yahoo! Encuentros.

Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho más fácil, probá el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros 
http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration

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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Jay Rabe]

Michael wrote:

> Connection is not something that can be taught.
--

As an absolute statement, I disagree. I think connection is quite different 
than chemistry, though they're related, but that's a huge topic.
Regarding connection, the context was about connection with a regular partner, 
vs. that with a stranger or not-so-regular partner.

Let me describe my experiences in dancing with a particular woman, "A." I have 
danced with her dozens of times over several years. There have been a couple of 
times when I've had the most exquisite connection with her that we were both 
nearly speechless afterwards. There have been times when we were so out of 
synch that you'd think we were both rank beginners. And of course lots of times 
in between. When you look at factors that were present during the bad times, 
you can learn (self-teach) from those bad experiences. I learned how being 
nervous or agitated or distracted or exhausted or ill can detract from my focus 
and from my being present and my listening to her. 

So to start with, to teach someone to have a better connection, you explain 
that they should relax, let go of extraneous concerns, focus their attention, 
and pay attention to their partner. It seems to me that these are tips or 
techniques that can facilitate good connections, and they surely can be taught.

That said, I will agree that connection is elusive, and I agree it's no doubt 
true that you can't teach connection to EVERYONE, but you most certainly can 
teach some things about it to a lot of people.

 J
  TangoMoments.com





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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Astrid]

I believe that connection has very much to do with toning the inner muscles 
of the body.
My connection with practically everyone is infinitely better than what it 
was when I was a beginner. And it does not really depend on how much I like 
them, chemistry and all that. I have never had a problem about embracing 
people so that is not it either. And the sense of connection went yet to 
another level when I took up bellydance, esp. after going to a milonga after 
a tribal dance lesson which again works on the inner muscles of the body, 
thus creating a stronger axis and more flexibility. . 

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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Keith]

On Thu Jan 24  9:07 , "Michael"  sent:

>Virginia:
>Connection is not something that can be taught. 


I don't really know what Michael means here but I'm a simple, straightforward 
kinda guy and I'm 
going to assume it means what the words say - "Connection is not something that 
can be taught". 
In that case, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree and I honestly have to wonder 
why anyone would 
say this. Virginia comes to Tango-L seeking advice on how to improve her 
connection with her
partner and this is Michael's negative response.

IMHO, connection is EVERYTHING in Tango and it should be the very first thing 
taught in a 
couple's very first Tango lesson. For example - the lady puts her hands on the 
man's chest and 
the man walks forward leading the lady to walk backward. They're not learning 
steps - they're 
only walking. What they're starting to learn is how to make a connection.

And, no matter how many years you learn Tango or how good you may get to be or 
how many 
fantastic figures you manage to learn,  IMHO connection will always be the most 
important thing.
Can you teach connection to everyone - probably not. But that's only because 
not everyone can 
learn how to dance Tango. 

I assume Michael means something else, but in the context of learning and 
dancing Tango, 
I hope we all know what ... 'making a connection' means - and it depends on 
technique, 
feeling, practice and awareness, not chemistry. That's something entirely 
different and I would 
agree that the right chemistry between a couple can raise the Tango to 
completely new heights 
and this is something that cannot be taught. The chemistry either exists or it 
doesn't. Although, 
I have to say - many stage performers, and even social dancers, learn how to 
fake it  :-).

Keith, HK


 

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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Krasimir Stoyanov]

Whatever someone is telling you, you'll need a teacher present with you, to 
check if everything happens the way it should.
It can't be done by written advice, especially at your level - the words are 
nearly useless without feedback.

- Original Message - 
From: "Virginia Nicholson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> My partner has good balance and posture and has been dancing for a long 
> time, though
> mostly in open embrace...now we're trying a mix of open and close. I'm
> not sure what's wrong. It's good - just not great. Do any of you
> leaders have any advice? or suggestions for how a to strengthen the
> connection? I apologize for covering what must be well-worn ground.

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Re: [Tango-L] Peralta vs Gustavo -- is just art not science.

[Shahrukh Merchant]

Amaury de Siqueira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I would like to ask the entire community of
> dancers to show more
> kindness and respect to the dance and each other. 
> This brief exchange (and
> disagreement) underscores a lack of tolerance and
> respect that is not
> positive to those witnessing.  

Indeed, two people (not hard to figure out who) managed to get 
themselves on review (i.e., all their future postings will be reviewed, 
and rather strictly I might add) in the same day, for flaming.

"Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My own philosophy is that one shouldn't be criticizing
> someone publicly unless you've told them the same criticism
> to their face.

The rules actually permit reviews of public figures in Tango (those who 
promote themselves commercially in Tango) as long as (a) the reviewer is 
identified including the location of the community in which he or she 
belongs (to prevent anonymous or fake name "reviews" (b) it's not a 
competitor or someone acting on behalf of a competitor and (c) it's a 
real review based on actual experience. However, I have to say that some 
of the recent negative comments on some Tango personalities are so 
obviously lacking in specifics and objectivity that they reflect more 
negatively on the "reviewers" than on the person being (negatively) 
reviewed.

And a final reminder, the rules suggest a 2-posting-per-week limit, 
which actually has never been enforced (and is probably a little too 
restrictive at this point). When the list was hosted on listserv until a 
year or so ago, the software automatically enforced a 2-posting-a-DAY 
limit, but the new list server doesn't have that feature. So I would ask 
that all posters voluntarily observe at least the 2-a-day limit, which 
would help maintain the quality (or at least information content) of the 
posts.

Thanks,

Shahrukh

Tango-L administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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