[Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
The Tango has been declared part of the 'World's Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity' by UNESCO, which aims to preserve a list of legacies under threat from global change. An Argentine official said he was very proud that the music and dance of the Tango have now been safeguarded for humanity. But has anyone wondered just what they intend to preserve and safeguard and just how they intend to do this? The Tango that is danced in much of the world is very different to what is danced in the traditional milongas of Buenos Aires and, with the growth of tango tourists to Buenos Aires, is there a danger that the traditional milongas will be unable to survive in their present form? The Argentines themselves seem to understand that, when they attend a traditional milonga, they adjust their behaviour and dance and respect the codes and culture of those milongas. If they want to behave differently and dance differently, they attend other venues such as the nuevo practicas and places like La Viruta and others. From my own experience, many non-Argentines just don't seem to understand this. Will the situation get worse as time passes or do the milonga organisers [or UNESCO] have some contingency plans to stop this from happening? Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this? Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
Thanks Jack for this post. The (at least partial) answer to your question can be found here: What is Intangible Cultural Heritage? at http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?pg=2 ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com To: Tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 7:02:02 AM Subject: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage The Tango has been declared part of the 'World's Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity' by UNESCO, which aims to preserve a list of legacies under threat from global change. An Argentine official said he was very proud that the music and dance of the Tango have now been safeguarded for humanity. But has anyone wondered just what they intend to preserve and safeguard and just how they intend to do this? The Tango that is danced in much of the world is very different to what is danced in the traditional milongas of Buenos Aires and, with the growth of tango tourists to Buenos Aires, is there a danger that the traditional milongas will be unable to survive in their present form? The Argentines themselves seem to understand that, when they attend a traditional milonga, they adjust their behaviour and dance and respect the codes and culture of those milongas. If they want to behave differently and dance differently, they attend other venues such as the nuevo practicas and places like La Viruta and others. From my own experience, many non-Argentines just don't seem to understand this. Will the situation get worse as time passes or do the milonga organisers [or UNESCO] have some contingency plans to stop this from happening? Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this? Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list href=mailto%3A%25e%25Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
i think a lot of work has to be done in this regard if we want to preserve tango as we know it. i recently attended the friday night tango festival ball in berlin and felt compelled to send the following email to the organisers my name is tony parkes, an australian dancing tango for 7 years. i have lived the last one and a half years in buenos aires, dancing on average 5 nights a weeks. because i am visiting friends here i registered for the 2010 berlin tango festival. your details are Registering for the festival for Anthony Parkes:- Your dancer name: Anthony138 and your password: ZFI2HT the purpose of this email is to convey to you my immense disappointment at the ball last friday night. tango friends here in berlin advised me not to go thursday night because they expected that it would most likely be an indulgence in nuevo tango, and some who went confirmed this. but we all expected the saturday ball to be more conventional tango. three of our group of six have danced in buenos aires, and all 6 of us as i said above, were immensely disappointed. apart from the music played by the dj, there was nothing else at the ball that anyone who dances traditional tango could enjoy. and that includes the buenos aires tango orchestra who played nuevo music. of the several hundred people on the dance floor, 99% were dancing nuevo with no knowledge of the line of dance nor respect for the space of others. there was no tango energy, just couples dancing mindlessly, selfishly, arrogantly - and no dancing with the music. the music could have been jingle bells or happy birthday and they still would have performed their same extravagant, exhibitional gyrations. there were but so few people attempting to dance with feeling, connection with their partner and love for the music i am aware that the nuevo phenomenon is happening in north america and in other places in europe which saddens me. in buenos aires i have enjoyed many dances with both north and south american women, and of course european women too, and i expected something similar here in berlin. so now to attend what you have labelled a tango festival hurts me. please answer me how can you use the word tango ? the reality for me is that you have falsely labelled your festival (i have been told that in past years it was traditional tango) so people like myself and my friends who enjoy tango pay money to you in expectation of another enjoyable tango experience. there was no chance of that on saturday night. and for the first time in my 7 years of dancing i walked off the pista during a tanda - to carlos di sarli no less. i am not asking for my money to be returned, i just ask that you look at yourselves and have the honesty and dignity to remove the word tango from your marketing. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
Tony wrote: the purpose of this email is to convey to you my immense disappointment at the ball (Berlin)* last friday night... Beauty mate. And I've gotta say since my first trip here I'm sure that courtesy and feeling is rapidly disappearing off the floors in BsAs as well. It's getting harder to find a milonga that gives me joy. Although I am enjoying the mood of the people celebrating their 200 year anniversary. Pity about last night's celebrations being washed out. For the first time, I'm seriously reconsidering moving over here permanently. Maybe if it stopped raining so much in Portland! Aussie Anton * my insertion. -Original Message- From: tango-l-boun...@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-boun...@mit.edu] On Behalf Of tony parkes Sent: Monday, 24 May 2010 10:13 AM To: Jack Dylan; tango-l Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
I do understand the feeling of emptiness, sadness, loss of something dear when you see things you love change. But, nothing, nothing ever remains the same. The fact that so many cry out in favor of preserving tango as we know it truly amazes me. That goal is truly impossible. Instead, let's just be constructive and contribute our own creativity into the river of energies causing tango to change. Change it will, whether we want it or not. The question is only whether we will passively see it happen and complain that it did not happen the way we want or actively affect the way it happens. The choice is ours. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Steve Keefer is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 05/21/2010 and will not return until 05/25/2010. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
- Original Message From: Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com To: Tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 6:02:02 AM Subject: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage But has anyone wondered just what they intend to preserve and safeguard and just how they intend to do this? The Tango that is danced in much of the world is very different to what is danced in the traditional milongas of Buenos Aires and, with the growth of tango tourists to Buenos Aires, is there a danger that the traditional milongas will be unable to survive in their present form? The short answer is Yes. Yes, tango has always been changing, evolving in some way. However, at least since the 1930s or perhaps earlier, if some evolution in tango did not fit into the customs of the milonga, particularly how it respected the space of other dancers on the floor, it was forbidden at the milonga; some evolved forms, for example tango fantasia, led to the development of tango for the stage. What is different today is that much of tango nuevo is not designed to fit into a community of dancers on the social dance floor. In Buenos Aires, this has led to separate events for nuevoists (milongas such as La Viruta and La Catedral and the nuevo practicas) and the traditional customs of the milonga are generally respected at the overwhelming majority of other milongas. Something to be noted is that this is perhaps the first time in the history of tango that there is a considerable amount of age segregation by milonga. The average age at La Viruta and La Catedral is undoubtedly under 30 and the average age at many traditional milongas is over 50, probably even over 60. There is a lost generation of tango. In the golden age, young porten~os were initiated into the tango culture by their parents or other older relatives of the previous generation, most likely in a club del barrio. The traditional customs were passed on within families, from the older generation to the younger generation. The current youth of Buenos Aires has parents who were unlikely to dance tango. Their first encounter with tango is more likely to be with peers. Tango nuevo appeals to young people. It is targeted at young people. Thus, tango nuevo represents in part a youth culture in which young people can form a community of peers that is largely separate from a culture of traditional tango that is more appealing to middle aged and elderly porten~os. The age segregation is, of course, not absolute, with some young porten~os attending traditional milongas and some older porten~os attending nuevo events. My guess is that the former represents a larger number of people than the latter, due to the physical limitations caused by aging which make nuevo less practical as a style of dancing. What is not easy to predict is what will happen in the future. The physical limitations of aging will cause many people to drop nuevo. So will having children to raise. It is possible many of the dancers who dropped nuevo will take up traditional tango de salon at an older age. A major unknown in this equation appears to be economics. Tango tourism fuels the economy of Buenos Aires. Many of the changes that can be called the evolution of tango coincide in time with the increase in tango tourism. Tango festivals like CITA and El Pulpo's festival are too expensive for porten~os and one need only pick up an issue of El Tanguata to realize that much of the tango industry is targeted towards tourist money, and much of this tourist money goes towards nuevo / show tango, which fits in more with the impressions and expectations of tourists for tango than does the marketing of tango milonguero. Thus, many milongas are supported by tourist money and thus there has been an increase in tango-tourist oriented milongas and practicas that meet the expectations of tango tourists. With inflation eating away at the the expendable income of porten~os, it is a simple matter of supply and demand that traditional milongas are fading away and tourist milongas are increasing. Another thing that may kill traditional tango is the lack of transmission of the character of traditional tango to the younger generation. It seems that every month one hears of one or more milongueros who have died or stopped dancing. So even if there is a demand for traditional tango, the number of people who are available to pass it on has decreased. However, if traditional tango could survive nearly 30 years of dictatorship and political tyranny from the late 50s to the early 80s, perhaps it can survive the challenges porten~o youth culture and foreign cultural demands and economic influence. There is something unique about this traditional tango that causes people from around the world to become obsessed with it and travel to Buenos Aires to find more of it. Another 10-20 years may be needed to determine whether nuevo is the future of tango or whether it is only an
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
Nice post, Ron. --- On Mon, 5/24/10, RonTango ronta...@rocketmail.com wrote: However, if traditional tango could survive nearly 30 years of dictatorship and political tyranny from the late 50s to the early 80s, perhaps it can survive the challenges porten~o youth culture and foreign cultural demands and economic influence. There is something unique about this traditional tango that causes people from around the world to become obsessed with it and travel to Buenos Aires to find more of it. Another 10-20 years may be needed to determine whether nuevo is the future of tango or whether it is only an evolutionary experiment. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
Hello Anton, Ah, but the quantity and quality of tango here more than offset any perceived meteorological imperfections. :-) Polly/Portland In a message dated 5/24/2010 8:40:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, an...@alidas.com.au writes: Tony wrote: the purpose of this email is to convey to you my immense disappointment at the ball (Berlin)* last friday night... Beauty mate. And I've gotta say since my first trip here I'm sure that courtesy and feeling is rapidly disappearing off the floors in BsAs as well. It's getting harder to find a milonga that gives me joy. Although I am enjoying the mood of the people celebrating their 200 year anniversary. Pity about last night's celebrations being washed out. For the first time, I'm seriously reconsidering moving over here permanently. Maybe if it stopped raining so much in Portland! Aussie Anton * my insertion. -Original Message- From: tango-l-boun...@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-boun...@mit.edu] On Behalf Of tony parkes Sent: Monday, 24 May 2010 10:13 AM To: Jack Dylan; tango-l Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
A quote from the latest edition of La Milonga Argentina magazine. An interview with Horacio Godoy, a partner in the La Viruta milonga BsAs. I think there always has to be an evolving development of any art form, because society is changing. First one has to cultivate the roots so that later you can give it your own evolution criteria, which is what sometimes doesn't happen because they start off directly with what is new tango. That's why people often aren't aware of what is a milonga-style or salon-style tango, or canyengue, the same as they don't have any idea if it's D'Agostino playing or Pugliese or D'Arienzo. The essence is lost if one doesn't have the basic grounding, and then it turns into something hollow, empty, going beyond the development they want to make. In my opinion, that says it all. From a supporter of tango development. Anton ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
Don't worry guys, we're holding up the side. You want classic Tango? Book your tickets for Milonga Para Los Niños 10th anniversary celebration weekend in Brisbane.yes, Brisbane, Australia !! Joaquin Amenabar in concert and his (now classic) workshops, gala ball, afternoon milonga, all with classic live and the best recorded music in the most evocative venue in the country. www.paralosninos.net See you there, John Tony wrote: the purpose of this email is to convey to you my immense disappointment at the ball (Berlin)* last friday night... Beauty mate. And I've gotta say since my first trip here I'm sure that courtesy and feeling is rapidly disappearing off the floors in BsAs as well. It's getting harder to find a milonga that gives me joy. Aussie Anton ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
