Re: [Tango-L] Cadencia vs rock step
Jack Tango can be walked two ways. Like a cat or a camel. The cat would be smooth leading out with the toe. The camel would be abrupt leading with the heel. It doesn't matter what we call it John Wayne Cat Camel or whatever every leader steps forward on his toe or his heel. Watch any video and pay attention to the man’s feet and you will see the smoother dancers all take the toe lead the others all lead with the heel. The way it was explained to me is when you move forward with the toe you can control the length of the step to the music and dance more smoothly. If you step forward on your heel the step is shorter so it’s harder to dance to slower music and be smooth. Most of the close embrace BsAs style dancing is heel leads good salon dancers use the toe lead. When I watch tango danced the main thing I look at is the man’s foot placement. If he’s dancing on his heels his movements are quick and his feet don't seem to be in total control. Watch a man leading with his toes and you'll see a totally different dancer with every foot movement exact and in control. I'm not judging here just pointing out how I see tango danced. David In a message dated 5/4/2011 11:28:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jackdylan...@yahoo.com writes: Milongueros in BsAs teach the walk as being 'a natural walk'. But to most people it feels anything but natural. The reason for this, it was once explained to me, is that it's based on the natural walk of men up to and including the 1950s when many men would walk with a kind of swagger - think John Wayne. Unfortunately, in this day and age, probably due to our haste, few men walk with a swagger. Although it's not related to music, could a swagger be described as a walk with cadencia? At my local gym, I still see boxers who walk with a swagger. Jack > From: Mario sopel...@yahoo.com > I, too, like investigating this word 'cadencia' > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Flat foot, heel first or toe first?
My opinion is different. First, smoothness in the walk is almost completely about the usage of the hip, knee and ankle joints rather than toe vs heel leads. To prove this, it is obvious that you can walk "camel" or smooth with a toe lead; you can walk smooth or choppy with a heel lead. Second, I don't think many tango dancers actually use a toe lead. I'm not talking about stage dancers trained to present a specific appearance and line. I know that many tango teachers SAY "lead with the toe", but if you watch them they aren't actually doing that. (They are repeating what they think they are supposed to say.) Most tango dancers land with the foot flat, but their weight hits the heel first, then passes across the foot. Usage of the whole foot gives the leader more control over balance and smoothness, as well as the ability to provide extremely subtle messages to the follower, such as asking her to slow down the collection the legs, micro decorations, and weight changes. This is particularly true of social dancers. As we can see from their resumes, most tango teachers from Argentina, notably the ones with the credentials to travel, are performance dancers, not social dancers. Some of them might social dance, but that isn't their primary interest or training. On May 5, 2011, at 9:14 AM, hbboog...@aol.com wrote: > Jack > Tango can be walked two ways. Like a cat or a camel. The cat would be > smooth leading out with the toe. > The camel would be abrupt leading with the heel. It doesn't matter > what we > call it John Wayne Cat Camel or whatever every leader steps forward > on his > toe or his heel. Watch any video and pay attention to the man’s > feet and > you will see the smoother dancers all take the toe lead the others > all lead > with the heel. The way it was explained to me is when you move > forward with > the toe you can control the length of the step to the music and > dance more > smoothly. If you step forward on your heel the step is shorter so > it’s > harder to dance to slower music and be smooth. > Most of the close embrace BsAs style dancing is heel leads good salon > dancers use the toe lead. When I watch tango danced the main thing I > look at is > the man’s foot placement. If he’s dancing on his heels his movements > are > quick and his feet don't seem to be in total control. Watch a man > leading > with his toes and you'll see a totally different dancer with every > foot > movement exact and in control. I'm not judging here just pointing > out how I see > tango danced. > David > Tom Stermitz c: 303-725-5963 http://www.tango.org Denver, CO 80207 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cadencia vs rock step
I think this is wy over-analyzing. I mean, what if a foxtrot teacher said with intensity and passion: "You must dance with RHYTHM". Obviously good advice, but what the heck does that specifically mean? And then, they present an example of "dancing with rhythm" by using some exaggerated body language (Whatever-TF THAT means.) In my experiences with tango teachers from Argentina, the cadencia topic comes up in this manner: They stop the class, giving everybody a look like "foreigners have no idea what tango really is" and say: "No, no no. You have to dance with cadencia; with CADENCIA! Like THIS... [insert exaggerated body motion]." (Same thing with "You have to dance with FEELING!" or another typical comment: "You have to dance tango with the HEART!", or "Tango comes from the MUSIC". Instruction by aphorism? Does anybody think I'm joking! Fine, good advice. We should all have rhythm, cadencia, body language, feeling and heart in our tango. Just don't expect words to communicate something that is intuitive and needs to be learned kinesthetically. On May 4, 2011, at 11:44 AM, Mario wrote: > > I, too, like investigating this word 'cadencia' > I teach language (Ingles) and when recently working with a > professional dancing/teaching couple, I advised them to keep the > Spanish terminology for 'cadencia' and for many of their other > references as well. > For me, the meaning is definately implied in these quotes: > - "(f) 3. In dancing, the correspondence of the motion of the body > with the music. Also;(..On one previous visit to Buenos Aires, when > I asked one of my Argentine partners to dance with cadencia with > me, he put in more body motion, I experienced more rhythmical > awareness..") > Tom Stermitz c: 303-725-5963 http://www.tango.org Denver, CO 80207 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Heel vs Toe
Hard to believe there are still people propogating this old canard again. The best dancers in the world, many of whom I've taken classes with and spoken to, use both, depending on the size and speed of the step, the direction, the dynamic effect sought, and they will tell you it's a matter of personal choice, not tango dogma. Even the alleged "toe" leaders, in a forward step actually just project the toe but then the weight is usually compressed mainly from the heel to the toe, not from the toe to the heel, especailly in longer steps the latter would make for very jerky walking. For example, if you started out dramatically with a toe lead in a side step and then started walking straight ahead in front of her in close embrace, you would send the heel first. That doesn't mean the toe is lifted very high, obviously, you want to minimize hwo much of your sole is visible. Its more like a soft drop of the foot, the ankle is articulated, not held rigid. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Flat foot, heel first or toe first?
On 05/05/2011 18:16, Tom Stermitz wrote: > My opinion is different. > So is mine (and if you search the archive of the list, you'll see it hasn't changed since 1998. Yes, that's how long that horse has been dead). "You will see the smoother dancers all take the toe lead" is perhaps that's what hbboog...@aol.com sees (or wants to see), but I (the "you" in the sentence above) don't see it. And just like Tom, I've seen teachers repeat the same mantra but dance differently from it. It's true on the stage and it's even more true on the milonga floor (where there's a lot less emphasis on ballet-style elegance and people have a gait that is much closer to their natural gait). If you're a stage tango dancer and you are searching for a particular style, then heel first may be for you, but you're going to have to exercise (and develop your calf muscles) and develop a suitable gait different from your normal life one that you're comfortable with. I can be done, but if you don't have time to perfect it, then chances are focusing on it is going to be irrelevant and do more harm than good. There's a way to cheat, of course, to have a heel first walk without most of the perceived ugliness: wear highish heels. It also helps you develop precision in placing your feet. FWIW, looking at videos of me, I seem to bee (barely) toe first on side steps and forward steps that have no continuing forward momentum after the step, flat footed for shortish steps with forward momentum, and heel first with much longer forward steps carrying continuing forward momentum. All the while, my upper body seems to be totally unaffected (I have a "smooth as if I were on wheels" motion there, even in close embrace, and I do not think I need to be at a different height on weak and strong beats, especially not since I often play with the phrases creatively). I've looked at videos of others and I often see the same thing (a foot placement technique that adapts to the necessary movement), even though a teacher I know and with whom I practice regularly does land on the ball of the foot (certainly not the toe) 100% of the time. Looking at the videos taken by others at these sessions for documentation, I'm certainly more cat like than he is regardless of the foot placement strategy; that's because his style is slightly different. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Milonga Para Los Niños 2011
Remember when many people ran a milonga in 2001 to help people devastated by the Argentine financial crisis? Here we are, 10 years on, still doing it. Our vision is to unite the Tango world in a BIG tango embrace, so that we can embrace distressed children in Argentina and Latin America with the tangible love of our small effort. In the 10 years since 2001, we have changed the lives of helpless children and in the process gained many wonderful friends in Australia, Argentina, Canada, the US and other parts of the world. In that time, friends of Milonga Para Los Niños have organised milongas in all the mainland capitals of Australia, Buenos Aires & Munich Germany. Will you join the big worldwide Tango embrace by organising one milonga in your Tango community for Milonga Para Los Niños? The rules are simple. The type and size of your event to suit your community and capability (we want you to keep going). Any time to suit yourself, but around the last week of July is good. $100 from a milonga is not too small. $10,000 is good too. organisers do not accept payment; deduct only real, necessary expenses. Examples of home (Brisbane, Australia) milongas: www.paralosninos.net http://youtu.be/CjcmJ-HdOYA?hd=1 http://www.skypoint.com.au/SkyPoint-Nights/Tango.aspx and Sydney: http://youtu.be/PA7-tjUlXSs Soc. Para Los Niños Inc. is a registered non-profit organisation in Queensland, Australia. Accounts are audited annually. All funds raised go direct to identifiable projects. Our most recent project is the reconstruction of Civil Los Horneros Foster Home on the outskirts of Buenos Aires. http://youtu.be/XYr9bV8PbJc If you want to organise a milonga, or ask a question, please contact presid...@paralosninos.net Regards, John ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Flat foot, heel first or toe first?
Al wrote :Feet are important, but landing on the toe first isn't. And landing on the toe first certainly doesn't affect the way you lead. It's pointless to argue with you, though. This isn’t an argument it’s a friendly discussion. The way we were taught to dance tango affects how we dance. Everyone has different methods of teaching and everyone has opinions about how tango should be danced. I don’t think I could sway anyone over to my beliefs nor would I want to. I was taught the way you lead starts with the way you address the woman the way you stand in balance and on axis heels together feet at an angle. The way you take her hand and where that hand goes how and where you place your other hand and where you position your head. Marking the music sending a signal to your partner by compressing into the floor that you’re about to take that first step. Observing the flow of traffic and respecting the floor and the other dancers. That’s how I was taught to lead and we haven’t even taken a single step. As you can see the way that we are taught influences the way we dance. In my world heel leads are not permitted…haha David In a message dated 5/5/2011 3:01:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, a...@sgi.com writes: On 05/05/2011 22:26, hbboog...@aol.com wrote: > > The feet are what ground you to the floor if it’s not that important > to the teachers you’ve had it won’t seem that important to you. Feet are important, but landing on the toe first isn't. And landing on the toe first certainly doesn't affect the way you lead. It's pointless to argue with you, though. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Flat foot, heel first or toe first?
Like others, I'm surprised that this subect has come up again. Heel or toe first? For me, I think Javier Rodriduez. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJpQeSJxqKo But it's really just a question of personal style. I always dance in close embrace and, for that way of dancing, heel first is more comfortable. All the dancers I see dancing toe first frequently open the embrace. But I don't think that heel first equates with shorter steps. Ballroom dancers use much longer steps than any tango dancer but they all land heel first. It's all to do with the energy projected by the man. Jack > From: "hbboog...@aol.com" hbboog...@aol.com > This isn’t an argument it’s a friendly discussion. > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
