Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Raymund, That may be a different issue because Mailticker is not really a VF although it may seem so. Mailticker existed long before VFs were 'invented' and implemented. As far as I know the mail ticker was changed internally to be a VF. It could be so, I don't know. As I have said several times recently, I didn't follow v5 development and implementation closely. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 4:29 PM, MAU miguel.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Forget it. Do you understand what 'pointless' means? Apparently for you it means to stop a discussion with for me it works. I don't care if it doesn't work for you, or if the solution that would work for you wouldn't change anything for me, because I don't have a problem. Great. Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Carsten, Forget it. Do you understand what 'pointless' means? Apparently for you it means to stop a discussion with for me it works. No, the discussion is pointless not 'because it works for me' but because you don't understand what I am trying to say (or I can't explain it more clearly), and because, no matter how much we discuss, you are going to keep thinking there is a bug m(*) and I am convinced there is not and it is WAD. So, why continue the discussion? (*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Mark, Maybe we are not talking about the same thing, but I have a Virtual Folder for today's messages [I know, this might sound strange to some :-)] and when I delete messages in there, they are still shown, except, from then on, Trash is being mentioned as the folder they are in. That's probably because your VF is also 'looking' at Trash folder. Go to your VF Properties and remove Trash and deleted messages should/will not show then -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Rick, Sorry to interject, but it seems to be working as DESIGNED. If you don't want read messages to show, then they DON'T. There WERE some refresh issues with VFs which I believe were fixed. That's probably the reason some think there is a bug now. I mean, VFs are dumb and they do what they are told to do. For example, if you were a VF and I told you: When I tell you to refresh, look in this list of folders for messages that are Unread and display them here. What would you do? ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Raymund, The VF for the mailticker is the best example. No one would expect that a mail that you have open in an message window is closed because of some background activity. That may be a different issue because Mailticker is not really a VF although it may seem so. Mailticker existed long before VFs were 'invented' and implemented. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello RS, DC unless there is some reason why marking it read right away DC interferes with what one wants to do with the message In example you read or just scan a message but you don't have time to deal with it at the moment . In that way it stays in example in your main (cumulative) folder and waits for it's turn. Solution would be creating additional VF and tag messages somehow but for instance in my TB! all VF values are reset to zero and in that way if I use that solution I will not know that there is any message pending to be handled... I think it is a bit pointless to continue with this discussion, no one is going to convince the other if there is a bug or not. Anyway, I will tell you how I do things myself which, of course, to me, it seems a bit more logic. I hardly use any Incoming filters, just a few to sort messages for lists like this one and a couple of news letters. I mainly rely on Read and Reply filters. This way, most of my incoming email just stays in the Inbox, where I will go to see if I have any new and 'unread' messages. I normally use Smart Space to browse/read a message and when I get to the end the message is marked as read and I'm automatically taken to the next. That's what Smart Space does. Now, when I have one message selected in the Inbox Message List and displayed in the Preview pane, I may do several things with it if I just don't delete it: 1.- Just finish reading it and file it in appropriate folder When message is marked as read by Smart Space, Read filters trigger and one of them (most based on sender being in an AB Group) will move the message to appropriate folder. 2.- Reply to it and then file it As soon as I 'Send now' or 'Put in the outbox' the reply, Replied filters are triggered and one of them, with similar logic as Read ones (i.e. AB Groups) will move both the message being replied and the reply to appropriate folder. 3.- Keep it for later reply or further action Before Smart Space marks it as read I flag it. Then, when marked as read, a Read filter will move the message to my 'Action - Reply' folder, which is the folder I will look at for pending actions/replies. When I do reply/act on any of them, again Read and Replied filters will file them appropriately. Under 'Action - Reply' I have a VF which looks into it and with Advanced filter settings: Age is greater than 10 days AND Massage (attributes) is not replied And that is all. Have a good day. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 9:07 AM, MAU miguel.ur...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is a bit pointless to continue with this discussion, no one is going to convince the other if there is a bug or not. Anyway, I will tell you how I do things myself which, of course, to me, it seems a bit more logic. Well, there is one thing I find pretty convincing: The old VF behaviour (not removing the currently selected message) would not destroy your process, while the current behaviour destroys ours. So what's the argument against keeping the currently selected message in the VF list until the user selects another? I haven't seen one. So why don't we agree on that this should be fixed? BRgds, Carsten Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Carsten, So what's the argument against keeping the currently selected message in the VF list until the user selects another? I haven't seen one. So why don't we agree on that this should be fixed? Forget it. Do you understand what 'pointless' means? -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Carsten, So what's the argument against keeping the currently selected message in the VF list until the user selects another? I haven't seen one. So why don't we agree on that this should be fixed? Forget it. Do you understand what 'pointless' means? Sorry to interject, but it seems to be working as DESIGNED. If you don't want read messages to show, then they DON'T. There WERE some refresh issues with VFs which I believe were fixed. VFs don't show deleted emails. Perhaps that should be a feature request? -- Rick People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, But when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light shining from within. v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Using all POP accounts I download all images Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Rick, Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 5:00:56 PM, you wrote: R VFs don't show deleted emails. Perhaps that should be a feature request? Maybe we are not talking about the same thing, but I have a Virtual Folder for today's messages [I know, this might sound strange to some :-)] and when I delete messages in there, they are still shown, except, from then on, Trash is being mentioned as the folder they are in. -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 5.1.6.2 Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
On Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 3:11:24 PM, Mark Partous wrote: when I delete messages in there, they are still shown, except, from then on, Trash is being mentioned as the folder they are in. empty the trash, and they will most likely no longer be in the virtual folder -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 5.1.6.2 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Dwight, Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 10:13:04 PM, you wrote: DC empty the trash, and they will most likely no longer be in the virtual DC folder :-) I would consider that to be a purged message. -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 5.1.6.2 Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 4:28 PM, MAU miguel.ur...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it make much more sense to mark a message as read (*) when you have actually finished reading it and after deciding if you want to flag it, delete it, park it, tag it, reply or forward it, assign it to a color group or perhaps just leaving it as unread? (*) Using Smart Space, Ctrl+M (or any key combination you want to customise) or from RMB menu if you are using the mouse. I disagree. Almost every email client/interface on this planet, from Hotmail to the iPhone, marks an email as read when you open it for reading. And this for good reason: Usually people read an email after they open it, which is generally the purpose of opening an email. Having to manually mark them as read, especially when using the mouse, is an unnecessary task. Also, what is the disadvantage of keeping the email currently being looked at in the VF's message list? I bet my ass that Ritlabs didn't implement the current behaviour on purpose. They just made the VFs refresh more often (which is generally good) and don't care about this side effect that actually destroys a useful process for users. That process being to have a VF that shows all your unread mail from various accounts/folders. Not such an unusual way to handle new mail one would think. BRgds, Carsten Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
On Monday, May 21, 2012, 11:04:09 AM, Carsten Guthardt-Schulz wrote: I disagree. Almost every email client/interface on this planet, from Hotmail to the iPhone, marks an email as read when you open it for reading. And this for good reason: Usually people read an email after they open it, which is generally the purpose of opening an email. Having to manually mark them as read, especially when using the mouse, is an unnecessary task. unless there is some reason why marking it read right away interferes with what one wants to do with the message -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 5.1.6.2 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hi Dwight, CGS I disagree. Almost every email client/interface on this planet, CGS from Hotmail to the iPhone, marks an email as read when you open CGS it for reading. And this for good reason: Usually people read an CGS email after they open it, which is generally the purpose of CGS opening an email. Having to manually mark them as read, CGS especially when using the mouse, is an unnecessary task. DC unless there is some reason why marking it read right away DC interferes with what one wants to do with the message In example you read or just scan a message but you don't have time to deal with it at the moment . In that way it stays in example in your main (cumulative) folder and waits for it's turn. Solution would be creating additional VF and tag messages somehow but for instance in my TB! all VF values are reset to zero and in that way if I use that solution I will not know that there is any message pending to be handled... -- Best Regards, RS (FEDARA) The Bat! 5.1.2 Windows 7 x64 Professional (7601 Service Pack 1) POP3 accounts (x5) Tuesday, May 22, 2012 (01:45 ; GMT+8) Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Raymund Tump raymund.t...@gmx.de wrote: Which leads to a slightly different scenario but as annoying. 1. Mail is shown on mail ticker. 2. I open the mail as I'm interested in it 3. A filter is triggered for this mail and the mail is sorted out to a different folder therefore removing it from the mail ticker. 4. As the message is no longer in the VF, TB closes my message window. This is clearly not expected. Sounds to me like it's the exact same bug. The message that is currently open suddenly doesn''t fulfill the VF criteria anymore and therefore gets closed/removed from the list, even though the user is still working with it. Ritlabs, please fix this. There was a bug in BT, but it was pretty much ignored (as usual). BRgds, Carsten Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 7:51 PM, RS (FEDARA) r...@fedara.com wrote: DC unless there is some reason why marking it read right away DC interferes with what one wants to do with the message In example you read or just scan a message but you don't have time to deal with it at the moment . In that way it stays in example in your main (cumulative) folder and waits for it's turn. This is exactly why my virtual folders are configured to show all unread and flagged mail. If I have read an email and still want to work with it later (e.g. write a long answer) I will simply flag it, so it stays in the virtual folder. This, by the way, is one thing that isn't possible anymore in v5, because often the email will disappear from the list once read and I can't set the flag anymore. Of course you could also misuse the read/unread status to mark emails that still need to be worked on, instead of flagging them or using colours or whatever. However, this is not what the read/unread status is designed for, because then it's just limited to be used as another kind of flag, not making use of the special ability of read/unread, which is to be set from read to unread state automatically after displaying a message. BTW, that's why it's called read/unread and not done / still needs work :-) Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
I don't consider this to be a bug. If the message you are viewing, or any other message in the same folder, is already marked as read when the VF refreshes, I would say it is normal and to be expected that the message(s) disappear from the VF. As you say, your VF is configured to show *unread* messages. Well, it makes absolutely no sense to remove the message from the VF while it is still selected. Having the message selected in the message list (and open in the preview pane) means it is a message currently being looked at, so refreshing its state in the VF only makes sense once you have FINISHED working with this message (i.e. selected another one). The result of the message being removed from the list while you are still working with it is dramatic: - you can't flag it, as it's not in the list anymore - you can't delete it - you can't mark it as unread - you can't park it - ... If you want to do any of these thing, you'll have to search for the folder the message is located in. If your VF draws on many folders this may be a long search. It's not such an usual way to have a VF show unread messages, but with the current bug it's absolutely useless. And the worst part is that it worked right in v4! BRgds, Carsten Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Probably the best (and easiest) way to handle this would be that a VF, while open, does not remove any messages automatically, and only adds the new ones. Removing only takes place once you either refresh manually or leave the VF. That's how v4 handled it and it definitely made sense. On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Carsten Guthardt-Schulz gutha...@gmail.com wrote: Well, it makes absolutely no sense to remove the message from the VF while it is still selected. Having the message selected in the message list (and open in the preview pane) means it is a message currently being looked at, so refreshing its state in the VF only makes sense once you have FINISHED working with this message (i.e. selected another one). The result of the message being removed from the list while you are still working with it is dramatic: - you can't flag it, as it's not in the list anymore - you can't delete it - you can't mark it as unread - you can't park it - ... If you want to do any of these thing, you'll have to search for the folder the message is located in. If your VF draws on many folders this may be a long search. It's not such an usual way to have a VF show unread messages, but with the current bug it's absolutely useless. And the worst part is that it worked right in v4! BRgds, Carsten Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
5/20/2012 8:41 AM Hi Carsten, On 5/20/2012 Carsten Guthardt-Schulz wrote: CGS Probably the best (and easiest) way to handle this would be that CGS a VF, while open, does not remove any messages automatically, and CGS only adds the new ones. Removing only takes place once you either CGS refresh manually or leave the VF. That's how v4 handled it and it definitely made sense. Agreed... see below... - -- Paul The Bat! v.4.2.44.2 on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 6.1.7601 No IMAP No OTFE Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Carsten, Well, it makes absolutely no sense to remove the message from the VF while it is still selected. Having the message selected in the message list (and open in the preview pane) means it is a message currently being looked at, so refreshing its state in the VF only makes sense once you have FINISHED working with this message (i.e. selected another one). What really doesn't make sense to me is what you wrote in your first post: ,- [ ] | ... which then of course become read when you click on them. `- Wouldn't it make much more sense to mark a message as read (*) when you have actually finished reading it and after deciding if you want to flag it, delete it, park it, tag it, reply or forward it, assign it to a color group or perhaps just leaving it as unread? (*) Using Smart Space, Ctrl+M (or any key combination you want to customise) or from RMB menu if you are using the mouse. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hi Paul, CGS Probably the best (and easiest) way to handle this would be that CGS a VF, while open, does not remove any messages automatically, and CGS only adds the new ones. Removing only takes place once you either CGS refresh manually or leave the VF. That's how v4 handled it and CGS it definitely made sense. P Agreed... see below... Agreed as well. One more thing is that if new messages in the folder are selected for reading they are marked automatically as Read - that is logical and if there is no other action from a user side filter should be triggered when user moves to next message. But if user decided to keep message as UnRead with CTRL+U filter is still triggered after you move to next message and UnRead message is filtered out. IMO, if user decides to keep message UnRead filter should not be triggered. Just an observation. -- Best Regards, RS (FEDARA) The Bat! 5.1.2 Windows 7 x64 Professional (7601 Service Pack 1) POP3 accounts (x5) Monday, May 21, 2012 (00:14 ; GMT+8) Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello RS, One more thing is that if new messages in the folder are selected for reading they are marked automatically as Read - Not if Account/Properties/Options/Mark message as read... is not selected (ticked). -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hi MAU, RS One more thing is that if new messages in the folder are RS selected for reading they are marked automatically as Read - MAU Not if Account/Properties/Options/Mark message as read... is not MAU selected (ticked). You might be right about that ; however, I get about 50-100 messages a day and most of them are to be marked as Read while opened. Just a few of them are to still stay as UnRead for further processing. So, in my case using that option as checked is helpful so I do not have to manually mark 100 messages a day :) What I meant here was only that if user decides to keep a message as UnRead filter shall not be triggered (user marking it as UnRead after check-up may rather be willing to leave it for further processing in the folder where it is at the moment than have it moved). If I'm mistaken I do not see much sense in an option to mark the message as UrRead if it's to be moved out somewhere and anyway I need to look for it in the depth of the folders :) -- Best Regards, RS (FEDARA) The Bat! 5.1.2 Windows 7 x64 Professional (7601 Service Pack 1) POP3 accounts (x5) Monday, May 21, 2012 (01:24 ; GMT+8) Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello RS, MAU Not if Account/Properties/Options/Mark message as read... is not MAU selected (ticked). You might be right about that ; however, I get about 50-100 messages a day and most of them are to be marked as Read while opened. Just a few of them are to still stay as UnRead for further processing. So, in my case using that option as checked is helpful so I do not have to manually mark 100 messages a day :) It is certainly your option to do so. As I have said on this list before, and just recently in this thread, I mark messages as read when I have actually finished reading them and/or decided what I want to do with them. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
The bug that the message I am currently reading in a VF disappears as soon as the virtual folder gets refreshed is still there. This happens if a VF is configured to show unread emails, which then of course become read when you click on them. Then you better hurry if you want to flag the message, because as soon as a new unread message comes in (causing the VF to refresh) your message will disappear from the VF. Bug exists and was reported since v5.0. Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.1.6.2 VF bug still there
Hello Carsten, The bug that the message I am currently reading in a VF disappears as soon as the virtual folder gets refreshed is still there. This happens if a VF is configured to show unread emails, which then of course become read when you click on them. Then you better hurry if you want to flag the message, because as soon as a new unread message comes in (causing the VF to refresh) your message will disappear from the VF. I don't consider this to be a bug. If the message you are viewing, or any other message in the same folder, is already marked as read when the VF refreshes, I would say it is normal and to be expected that the message(s) disappear from the VF. As you say, your VF is configured to show *unread* messages. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v5.1.6.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 3 My photos at: http://www.Rancho-K.com My photoblog: http://mau.aminus3.com Current beta is 5.1.4.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
