Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello vitalie,

On Fri, 12 May 2006 00:20:39 +0300 GMT (12/05/2006, 04:20 +0700 GMT),
vitalie vrabie wrote:

vv> correct. the URI's umlauts MUST be %-encoded, so it'll be
vv> recognized properly. this is FIRST.

You refer to chapter 2.1 of RFC3986:

vv> 2.1.  Percent-Encoding
vv> 
vv>A percent-encoding mechanism is used to represent a data octet in a
vv>component when that octet's corresponding character is outside the
vv>allowed set or is being used as a delimiter of, or within, the
vv>component. [...]

Note that it says "outside the allowed set". But what is the "allowed
set"? Chapter 2.0 gives the answer:

vv> 2.  Characters
vv> 
vv>The URI syntax provides a method of encoding data, presumably for the
vv>sake of identifying a resource, as a sequence of characters.  The URI
vv>characters are, in turn, frequently encoded as octets for transport
vv>or presentation.  This specification does not mandate any particular
vv>character encoding for mapping between URI characters and the octets
vv>used to store or transmit those characters.  When a URI appears in a
vv>protocol element, the character encoding is defined by that protocol;
vv>without such a definition, a URI is assumed to be in the same
vv>character encoding as the surrounding text.

We learn that a specific character set is not mandated. The
surrounding text for a German email (or any email containing umlauts)
is one of those that allows umlauts.

vv> the URI per se must NOT contain any umlauts (again, please read
vv> that rfc throughly). it just can be PRESENTED to the user with those.

I've read the RFC, and I understand the opposite: It may indeed
contain umlauts if in a text that uses a charset allowing umlauts. For
example, in an email encoded in Latin-9.

In any case, it should not be too difficult to implement what the user
needs: Clickable URIs, even though they may contain umlauts. Why do
you not want to implement that?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Kommt ein Mann in ne Bank: "Haende raus, Geld hoch, ich bin eine
Geisel!" - "Gell, Sie wollen's in Schilling?"
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

Message reply created with The Bat! 3.80.03
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2




 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[vitalie vrabie]

hi,

Wednesday, May 10, 2006, 6:01:46 PM, you wrote:

vv>> what you seem to definitely miss, is the difference between the
vv>> PRESENTATION (applied to browsers' address bar) and RECOGNITION of
vv>> an uri in an arbitrary text (which is the case of our message viewers)...

> In order to present, you must recognise first. 

correct. the URI's umlauts MUST be %-encoded, so it'll be recognized properly. this is FIRST.

THEN,
TB may PRESENT it to the user anyhow you like.

> TB's viewer recognises
> URIs just fine, except the algorithm doesn't know yet that URIs may
> include umlauts now.

the URI per se must NOT contain any umlauts (again, please read that rfc throughly). it just can be PRESENTED to the user with those.


-- 
regards,
 vitalie                            mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello vitalie,

On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:45:05 +0300 GMT (10/05/2006, 20:45 +0700 GMT),
vitalie vrabie wrote:

vv> what you seem to definitely miss, is the difference between the
vv> PRESENTATION (applied to browsers' address bar) and RECOGNITION of
vv> an uri in an arbitrary text (which is the case of our message viewers)...

In order to present, you must recognise first. TB's viewer recognises
URIs just fine, except the algorithm doesn't know yet that URIs may
include umlauts now. It's really not so difficult to implement: In the
table of allowed characters, add these umlauts (and other characters
that are now allowed) alongside the special characters that have been
allowed all the time, such as "_" and "-".

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Unter optimal kontrollierbaren Bedingungen wird eine Versuchsanordnung
exakt das machen, was sie will.
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

Message reply created with The Bat! 3.80.03
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2




 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[vitalie vrabie]

hi,

Saturday, May 6, 2006, 9:20:34 PM, you wrote:

>>> The important question here is: are there rules what character an URL
>>> can contain and what not?

vv>> yes, there is rfc3986.

vv>> and it doesn't seem to be obsoleted or updated by any other rfc,
vv>> judging by http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-index2.html

> I found this in RFC3986:

> 2.4.  When to Encode or Decode
[^Y]

> I understand this means that not only the tilde but also umlauts are
> allowed. Or am I reading this wrong?

depending on how do you understand it.

basically, this means that WHEN/IF the user got a URI that *IS* (and i stress this!) %-encoded, the user may be *PRESENTED* WITH IT in a decoded form. this is exactly what browsers do - htey present you with umlauts in the address bar.

what you seem to definitely miss, is the difference between the PRESENTATION (applied to browsers' address bar) and RECOGNITION of an uri in an arbitrary text (which is the case of our message viewers)...


-- 
regards,
 vitalie                            mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello vitalie,

On Wed, 3 May 2006 23:28:22 +0300 GMT (04/05/2006, 03:28 +0700 GMT),
vitalie vrabie wrote:

>> The important question here is: are there rules what character an URL
>> can contain and what not?

vv> yes, there is rfc3986.

vv> and it doesn't seem to be obsoleted or updated by any other rfc,
vv> judging by http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-index2.html

I found this in RFC3986:

2.4.  When to Encode or Decode

   [...]

   When a URI is dereferenced, the components and subcomponents
   significant to the scheme-specific dereferencing process (if any)
   must be parsed and separated before the percent-encoded octets
   within those components can be safely decoded, as otherwise the
   data may be mistaken for component delimiters. The only exception
   is for percent-encoded octets corresponding to characters in the
   unreserved set, which can be decoded at any time. For For example,
   the octet corresponding to the tilde ("~") character is often
   encoded as "%7E" by older URI processing implementations; the "%7E"
   can be replaced by "~" without changing its interpretation.

I understand this means that not only the tilde but also umlauts are
allowed. Or am I reading this wrong?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Trees that grow in smoggy cities are needed to make carbon paper.
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

Message reply created with The Bat! 3.80.03
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2



 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[NetVicious]

miércoles, 3 may 2006 at 10:58, it seems you wrote:

> Any confirmations?


It's not a bug. The standard says you couldn't use non-usa characters
in a url. You should escape they as Mozilla does when you type the url
you sent

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6llerei

-- 
  /\/ Using The Bat! 3.80.03 Professional
 /  \  / \  / Windows XP (5.1.2600 Service Pack 2)
/\/ e t   \/ i c i o u s  Plugins: BayesIt! 0.8.4 and miniRelayPlug 0.05.50
      Last 24 hour Spam% it's 0%
Moderator of Spanish TBUDL
Spanish Translation Coordinator of The Bat!



 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[vitalie vrabie]

hi,

Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 11:11:40 PM, you wrote:

> The important question here is: are there rules what character an URL
> can contain and what not?

yes, there is rfc3986.

and it doesn't seem to be obsoleted or updated by any other rfc, judging by http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-index2.html


-- 
regards,
 vitalie                            mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re[2]: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Vili]

Hello vitalie,

>> yes, but when you enter the whole URL in Firefox, it will displyed as
>> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6llerei. IE displays the URL with
>> the composite character. So TB is not the only application with a bug
>> in this environment.
> Firefox does provide an option on how to display them. but that's
> easier, as you can be pretty sure that if what is typed in that box
> is an URI, the *entire* string is an URI. while TB's job is to
> RECOGNIZE AND DELIMIT a URI in a stream of bytes that usually
> represents just a story the user is supposed to get bothered with.

The important question here is: are there rules what character an URL
can contain and what not? IMHO, the first whitespace should signal the
end of an URL...

-- 
Vili



 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[vitalie vrabie]

hi,

Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 12:46:56 PM, you wrote:

> yes, but when you enter the whole URL in Firefox, it will displyed as
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6llerei. IE displays the URL with
> the composite character. So TB is not the only application with a bug
> in this environment.

Firefox does provide an option on how to display them. but that's easier, as you can be pretty sure that if what is typed in that box is an URI, the *entire* string is an URI. while TB's job is to RECOGNIZE AND DELIMIT a URI in a stream of bytes that usually represents just a story the user is supposed to get bothered with.


-- 
regards,
 vitalie                            mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Mark,

On Wed, 3 May 2006 11:15:09 +0200 GMT (03/05/2006, 16:15 +0700 GMT),
Mark Partous wrote:

VA>> Example: 

MP> Could it be a remainder from the time when those characters were not allowed
MP> (Or am I imagining things and were they never prohibited)?

You are right, they were prohibited. But the moment they were allowed,
we had a discussion about this here (or on another TB-list). It's a
pity TB hasn't been updated in this regard.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

SYMPTOM: Feet cold and wet. FAULT: Glass being held at incorrect
angle. ACTION: Rotate glass so that open end points toward the
ceiling.
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

Message reply created with The Bat! 3.80.03
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2




 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Stuart Hemming]

> Any confirmations?
Yup.

-- 
Stuart Hemming

Using The Bat! v3.80.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70,
MyMacros 1.11a.

I signed up for an exercise class and was told to wear loose-fitting
clothing. If I HAD any loose-fitting clothing, I wouldn't have signed
up in the first place!


pgpoAMxfz5zdO.pgp
Description: PGP signature

 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Feli Wilcke]

Hello Volker,

On Wed, 3 May 2006 10:58:00 +0200GMT Volker Ahrendt wrote:

VA> If I insert a URL, which contains a special character (e.g. German
VA> Umlaut), into a new eMail, the URL is cut off.

correct

VA> Example: 

VA> Only http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V is formatted as a link and will be
VA> opened in a browser.

VA> It seems to be regardless, which editor/viewer you use
VA> (Options|Preferences...|Viewer/Editor).

yes, but when you enter the whole URL in Firefox, it will displyed as
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6llerei. IE displays the URL with
the composite character. So TB is not the only application with a bug
in this environment.

-- 
Regards,
Feli

The Bat! 3.80.03 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2
BayesIt! 0.8.4



 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: [The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Goos]

Hi Volker,

VA> If I insert a URL, which contains a special character (e.g. German
VA> Umlaut), into a new eMail, the URL is cut off.
VA> Any confirmations?

Confirmed.

Clicking the URL cuts it off, using the menu (cursor on
link, right mousebutton 'open URL' cuts it too. Marking
the whole link and then the same procedure gives the same
result.

-- 
Regards,
Gunivortus
Using The Bat Vs. 3.80.03 under XP Pro, SP2



 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Mark Partous]

Hello Volker,

Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 10:58:00 AM, you wrote:

VA> Example: 

Could it be a remainder from the time when those characters were not allowed
(Or am I imagining things and were they never prohibited)?

-- 
Best Wishes,
Mark 
   
using 
The Bat! Version 3.80.03 
MyMacros 1.11a

zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 
Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (0 days 2:44:16) on
Uno AMD Duron




 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Mark Partous]

Hello Volker,

Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 10:58:00 AM, you wrote:


VA> Any confirmations?



Confirmed. Also happens when you simply type it.

-- 
Best Wishes,
Mark 
   
using 
The Bat! Version 3.80.03 
MyMacros 1.11a

zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 
Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (0 days 2:41:1) on
Uno AMD Duron




 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

[The Bat! 3.80.03] Bug: URL cut off in Editor/Message Viewer

[Volker Ahrendt]

Hello, folks!

If I insert a URL, which contains a special character (e.g. German
Umlaut), into a new eMail, the URL is cut off.

Example: 

Only http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V is formatted as a link and will be
opened in a browser.

It seems to be regardless, which editor/viewer you use
(Options|Preferences...|Viewer/Editor).

Any confirmations?

-- 
Cheers!
VA - using The Bat! 3.80.03 (Pro) on Windows XP Service Pack 2.

  ’If you are in deep water,
you should not hang the head.‘





 Current beta is 3.80.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/