Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Paul, Saturday, September 15, 2007, 2:05:29 PM, you wrote: GP But these are needs that can be filled many other ways, and are not GP really part of doing email well. They don't really add value to an GP email client as some others have found. Instead they add unnecessary GP complexity, and opportunity for program error. What happens as the GP old timers become ornate and enlarged, is that newcommers pop up GP saying, hey look at us, we are simple, easy and quick. Those GP attributes, along with design excellence are the real virtues. Well said. Well, have a look which e-mail clients got more and more successfull? Unfortunately not the ones that were designed simple, easy and quick. I think it is important to have the design simple and easy - but additional functionality has not necessarily to make changes in the usage. There must be ways that the excessive users with a huge filtering list, many accounts and many keyboard shortcuts can use the tool the same way like the first time user. So important is: think different and look beside the borders. I know many e-mail-clients. And The Bat still is my favourite. However some functions I miss there. -- Best regards, Martinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 10:08 AM Hi Martin, On 9/15/2007 Martin Schneider wrote: MS Not so easy. I have many subfolders. I want them automatically MS archived. And I focussed on an e-mail-client that offers most MS flexibility. As Netscape-Mail was not flexible enough I was using That MS Bat - and I am still happy about that. However other clients got more MS and more features that nowadays are wanted by many people. Creating an archival account once a year and naming it with the year will do this. Not totally automatic but certainly not painful or labor intensive. I know many people who still do not set the clock on their video recording devices or cameras. Of what value is the clock for these people? Having been around the world training people in many cultures I have seen the vast majority not even understanding a program's features and so most of these 'features' remain unused. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
Paul, GP I think that graphic support is becoming necessary for programs that GP handle email because email so often includes graphics these days. Embedded graphics are supported. Do you trust all of those who do not embed? Not me! If the message has merit it can be opened in the browser which makes it my choice rather than the sender's choice. Not sure why it is ok for a browser to display remote graphics, but not an email client. In the case of IE, the browser is definitely not the better choice. I think the email client should handle such images safely. It can be done. And I think users should have the choice to display or not. But this is a very old disagreement, and the sides do not reconcile in my experience. But the majority is shifting towards those who want to be able to read their emails without interference. -- Gleason Using 3.99.24 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
Martin, I agree with you that it is not necessarily a function of an e-mail program. But why do you think many e-mail clients are not successfull anymore? I guess because the people see that integrated functions offer more values. A number of reasons, not the least of which is that new users (young people) in this part of the world, at least, seem to prefer web based email. Very few features, they simply want to deal with a few emails a week with no fuss. Remembering the Mulberry email client that added support for calendaring as you suggest as a last ditch effort. Not long after Mulberry went bankrupt. No, this kind of thing is not a great source of new users, which is not the same thing as making current users happy. I use a separate news client. When I want to send mails it always is a little bit messy - and more when you have to use more than one e-mail-client on a computer. So I manually have to copy paste to send a mail from news. What happens when there is an attachment. Okay, I have to save it and add it. Not very nice. The thing that people forget sometimes, I think, is that things like newsgroup clients require years of development to do well. A half way nntp client tacked onto an email client will not be any more satisfying than a half way email client tacked onto an nntp client. There are a number of these choices available. If you want a half way nntp client, look at Pocomail or Gemini. If you want a half way email client, look at Fore's Agent. Agent's implementation is instructive of the problem involved in uniting nntp with pop. Agent does have email filters, but they were obviously designed for newsgroups. Nntp and pop need different treatments in a number of ways to give users a feeling of being able to do the things they need to do with the type of information they are trying to manage. I suspect, there are very few users casual enough to be satisfied with half way pop or nntp if they are going to use either at all. The same for RSS feeds. I use Great News which is working fine for me. However I can't store it in the same place like mails. When doing some search you can file articles in special folders like mails you got for the search... So, basically I think that this functionality should come closer together. As a practical matter, this is a very difficult request. So far, nobody has managed to put together a really workable union. Not to mention that you want not only two unions, but three. TB's copyright statement says that TB has been in development for 10 years. This is probably about average for many of the clients out there. TB's email could work better, but in comparison to other offerings, it looks pretty good. Are you willing to give Rit 10 years for nntp, and then another 10 for RSS? Is anybody? That's true. However the success of Rit is when they have satisfied users. Not current users. Long term viability depends on attracting new users. These two groups are very different in what they think they want. And there is another point: when they put more new functions - I think the (IMHO) stupid discussion of a free upgrade is gone. Rit can do a paid upgrade once in a while, and have done. It is no substitute for attracting new users. The one client that seems to be expanding its userbase these days is Thunderbird. To me it looks like it is 4 or 5 years behind the mature clients that are available. What is it that Thunderbird is doing right that the others are not? I confess that I am not able to see it. -- Gleason Using 3.99.24 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
hi Paul, PVN Embedded graphics are supported. Do you trust all of those who do not PVN embed? Not me! If the message has merit it can be opened in the PVN browser which makes it my choice rather than the sender's choice. I agree with you that the default behaviour should not be to open automatically embedded graphic. However it would be useful to have either a) the possibility to load the graphic if you want without using an external browser b) the possibility to have the option to authorize the bat to automatically load embedded graphic as a possible action in sorting office/filters. i.e. if the sender is x then automatically load embedded graphic. -- Fabio Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
