Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Richard, M I guess it was then 'similar' to Virtual Access, which started as an M off-line reader for CIS, CIX, Usenet and also quite good for POP mail. It was indeed and there was a continual debate between the Va and AMEOL devotees which never got resolved. I don't know why there was any debate at all because, quite obviously, VA was much better ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.0.2.10 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello MAU, On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] M I don't know why there was any debate at all because, quite obviously, M VA was much better Not going to get drawn into that one because I never used VA and you never used AMEOL either as you'd never heard of it!. It's now immaterial as I use Dialog for News and TB! for mail and am 90% very happy with both and am not the experimenting kind, well not as far as PCs are concerned. -- Regards, Richard | The Bat! 3.0.2.10 SpamPal | Windows XP (build 2600), version 5. 1 Service Pack 2 | Opera 8.00 build 7401 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Richard, Not going to get drawn into that one because I never used VA... I was just joking. Although you didn't quote it, there was a ;-) in what I wrote. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.0.2.10 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello MAU, On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] M I was just joking. Although you didn't quote it, there was a ;-) in what M I wrote. Sorry and I did well realize that too. It's just that, after all the for and against arguments that have been going on recently I thought I'd stay well away even in a joking environment! -- Regards, Richard | The Bat! 3.0.2.10 SpamPal | Windows XP (build 2600), version 5. 1 Service Pack 2 | Opera 8.00 build 7401 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Richard, M What does AMEOL mean. I place my cursor over it and the tool-tip I get M says 'Arrrgg' Sorry, it is an acronym for A Most Excellent Off Line reader. Ah! I guess my acronym interpreter though it had something to do with AOL and therefore the 'Arghhh!' ;-) It was developed for use with CIX a British Newsgroup and Service provider. It was also very good for mail until I discovered TB!. I guess it was then 'similar' to Virtual Access, which started as an off-line reader for CIS, CIX, Usenet and also quite good for POP mail. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.0.2.10 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello MAU, On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] M I guess it was then 'similar' to Virtual Access, which started as an M off-line reader for CIS, CIX, Usenet and also quite good for POP mail. It was indeed and there was a continual debate between the Va and AMEOL devotees which never got resolved. -- Regards, Richard | The Bat! 3.0.2.10 SpamPal | Windows XP (build 2600), version 5. 1 Service Pack 2 | Opera 8.00 build 7401 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Maxim, On Thu, 17 Feb 2005, at 23:27:46 [GMT +0200] (which was 4:27:46 PM in NY, USA) Maxim Masiutin wrote: That's a cute idea! Another way of solving this problem may be a feature to automatically expand the acronyms. The feature will be ON by default, and the users enought advanced to comprehend the acronyms will be also able to turn this feature OFF. I am in favor of this idea either by expanding acronyms or showing a tooltip. Though, expanding text may adversely alter wrapping in replies etc.. I am also in favor of the feature being on by default. I think you'd want new users to see as many semi-unique features as possible. Those not wanting the feature will know about it through these lists with plenty of advance notice via beta cycles. It's not overly troubling to disable a feature, is it? Lastly, I wouldn't put it off until everyone's favorite pet bug is fixed. I'd begin when it makes sense within your development plans. I think there's a bit of a misguided fear here that sees new features and bug fixing as mutually exclusive. -- Best regards, James Senick The Bat! v.3.0.2.4 Rush Windows XP build 2600 AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello James! On Saturday, February 19, 2005, 9:50 AM, you wrote: That's a cute idea! Another way of solving this problem may be a feature to automatically expand the acronyms. The feature will be ON by default, and the users enought advanced to comprehend the acronyms will be also able to turn this feature OFF. I am in favor of this idea either by expanding acronyms or showing a tooltip. Though, expanding text may adversely alter wrapping in replies etc.. Yes, it might. I am also in favor of the feature being on by default. I think you'd want new users to see as many semi-unique features as possible. ... I do see your line of reasoning here, but at present I still disagree with having the feature on by default. It is on by default in Trillian, and it includes word definitions, also. I was intrigued when it first popped up but now it is getting in my way. And I *don't* know how to disable it. sigh ... Those not wanting the feature will know about it through these lists with plenty of advance notice via beta cycles. ... Not everyone is reading these lists, not even those who have been reading them a long time read every word of every thread. That's one reason topics keep coming back here, even after being thoroughly discussed. It's not overly troubling to disable a feature, is it? ... Yes, it is sometimes, for me. Because I can't always find out how to do it. Was especially difficult for me when I first began using The Bat! ... Lastly, I wouldn't put it off until everyone's favorite pet bug is fixed. ... I don't think everyone's favorite pet bug will ever be fixed. ;) However, introducing a new feature like this, when we are waiting for a beta that will accomplish the current goals of the developers, might plunge us into the same old quagmire that we have floundered around in during betas past. I am eager to see what 9Val has been doing. :) ... I'd begin when it makes sense within your development plans. ... Agreed. ... I think there's a bit of a misguided fear here that sees new features and bug fixing as mutually exclusive. Basically I do believe that we are on the same side, here, James. But--once burned, twice shy. I'd like to see the next beta keep as much focus as possible on 9Val's new GUI, on as much improvement in IMAP functionality as possible, and on getting the quirks out of the HTML functionality. NB, I do not use IMAP or HTML. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Mary, On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, at 10:36:06 [GMT -0600] (which was 11:36:06 AM in NY, USA) Mary Bull wrote: I am also in favor of the feature being on by default. I think you'd want new users to see as many semi-unique features as possible. ... I do see your line of reasoning here, but at present I still disagree with having the feature on by default. It is on by default in Trillian, and it includes word definitions, also. I was intrigued when it first popped up but now it is getting in my way. And I *don't* know how to disable it. sigh I can sympathize with that. I don't really consider not being able to find the toggle right away a reason to have it default to OFF. But the fact that the feature itself would get in the way or be annoying to some is enough reason for me to drop the idea of having it default to ON. If the acronym tooltip / expansion was listed as a feature, I'm sure those who wanted it could find it. ... Those not wanting the feature will know about it through these lists with plenty of advance notice via beta cycles. ... Not everyone is reading these lists, not even those who have been reading them a long time read every word of every thread. I guess I am incorrectly assuming that most of those who are or would be against this reside right here. My fault. It's not overly troubling to disable a feature, is it? ... Yes, it is sometimes, for me. Because I can't always find out how to do it. Was especially difficult for me when I first began using The Bat! Ok. From a new OE convert standpoint, I'd see any feature that isn't right in my face as non-existant and any obvious feature as potentially configurable. But I'd bet that there are plenty of others who believe the exact opposite. So that might make my general point moot. I'll take a step back and say I'd just like to see the feature exist. ... I think there's a bit of a misguided fear here that sees new features and bug fixing as mutually exclusive. Basically I do believe that we are on the same side, here, James. But--once burned, twice shy. I'd like to see the next beta keep as much focus as possible on 9Val's new GUI, on as much improvement in IMAP functionality as possible, and on getting the quirks out of the HTML functionality. This is more to the point of what I was trying to say. I don't want to see the development team shy away from a new feature because some believe that the mere interest in it or even work on it takes away from bug fixing in any way. But I suppose that for those who do feel burned the burden of proof lies with RitLabs. -- Best regards, James Senick The Bat! v.3.0.2.4 Rush Windows XP build 2600 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello James, Saturday, February 19, 2005, 11:21:51 AM, you wrote: JS Ok. From a new OE convert standpoint, I'd see any feature that JS isn't right in my face as non-existant and any obvious feature JS as potentially configurable. But I'd bet that there are JS plenty of others who believe the exact opposite. So that might JS make my general point moot. I'll take a step back and say I'd JS just like to see the feature exist. Agreed. Off by default is probably best, but an option to turn it on, with an explanation of what it does, could be included in the installation process. -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.0.2.10 Bayes Filter Plugin v2.0.2 On Windows 2000 5.0 Build #2195 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
At 10:50 [GMT-0500] on Saturday February 19 (actual time - 11:50pm on Saturday in Perth, Western Australia), you wrote: I am also in favor of the feature being on by default. I think you'd want new users to see as many semi-unique features as possible. With a program as complex as TB, you run a very real risk of overwhelming the newbie with 'irrelevant' information. Start simple and build from there, rather than start complex and allow the user to dumb it down to the point where they can use it. Those not wanting the feature will know about it through these lists with plenty of advance notice via beta cycles. Not if they're new users. It's not overly troubling to disable a feature, is it? If you're a new user, most definitely. Lastly, I wouldn't put it off until everyone's favorite pet bug is fixed. I'd begin when it makes sense within your development plans. I think there's a bit of a misguided fear here that sees new features and bug fixing as mutually exclusive. History has taught us to think so. -- cheers, mic The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. Chinese Proverb Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello MAU, On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] M Well, VA had an option (kind of a plugin IIRC :) that, if activated, M when placing the cursor over an acronym it would show a tool-tip with M the expansion. As did/does AMEOL. Very useful. -- Regards, Richard | The Bat! 3.0.2.10 SpamPal | Windows XP (build 2600), version 5. 1 Service Pack 2 | Opera 8.00 build 7401 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Richard, As did/does AMEOL. Very useful. What does AMEOL mean. I place my cursor over it and the tool-tip I get says 'Arrrgg' ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.0.2.10 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello MAU, On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] M What does AMEOL mean. I place my cursor over it and the tool-tip I get M says 'Arrrgg' Sorry, it is an acronym for A Most Excellent Off Line reader. It was developed for use with CIX a British Newsgroup and Service provider. It was also very good for mail until I discovered TB!. I used to like it because they had lots of their own specific Newsgroups but I can't afford to run that as well as my Wanadoo account now so it had to go :-( -- Regards, Richard | The Bat! 3.0.2.10 SpamPal | Windows XP (build 2600), version 5. 1 Service Pack 2 | Opera 8.00 build 7401 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Tbbeta, Just a thought... I have a feeling that acronyms such as BCNU, FWIW, OBO, TNSTAAFL, etc, annoy people rather than amuse them even here in TBBETA. If you are using these as shortcust, remember that artificial acronyms may be a shortcut for the writer, but they will not be easily interpreted by those unfamiliar with them. -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutin mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Good evening Max, on Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:26:38 +0200 GMT your local time you wrote: MM using these as shortcust, remember that artificial acronyms may be a shortcut for MM the writer, but they will not be easily interpreted by those unfamiliar with them. why not let TB (the viewer part) back the writer? As implemented in the fabulous news reader 40tude dialog you could consider implementing a (possibly language dependant) file 'acrolang.dat' that contains all known acronyms in the form ACRO=meaning. The viewer can display the acronyms underlined and if the user places the mouse over it, it can display the meaning in a bubble near the mouse cursor. When reading usenet postings I personally find it very helpful. And when reading email messages with TB I sometimes miss it :-) -- Regards, Peter Using Ritlabs TheBat! 3.0.2.10 (OS: Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Peter, Peter Hampf wrote (in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]): The viewer can display the acronyms underlined and if the user places the mouse over it, it can display the meaning in a bubble near the mouse cursor. Nice idea, but please not now or in near future. We all are waiting for new beta - and after the release I think there is enough work with bugfixing (logical, because of the heavyset changes) so IMHO no time for feature requests. -- Regards, Boris Anders, http://www.batboard.de Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Peter, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 23:10:06, you wrote: The viewer can display the acronyms underlined and if the user places the mouse over it, it can display the meaning in a bubble near the mouse cursor. When reading usenet postings I personally find it very helpful. And when reading email messages with TB I sometimes miss it :-) That's a cute idea! Another way of solving this problem may be a feature to automatically expand the acronyms. The feature will be ON by default, and the users enought advanced to comprehend the acronyms will be also able to turn this feature OFF. -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Boris, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 23:28:45, you wrote: Nice idea, but please not now or in near future. We all are waiting for new beta - and after the release I think there is enough work with bugfixing (logical, because of the heavyset changes) so IMHO no time for feature requests. I agree! -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
RE: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Peter, Thursday, February 17, 2005, 10:10:06 PM, you wrote: MM using these as shortcust, remember that artificial acronyms may be a shortcut for MM the writer, but they will not be easily interpreted by those unfamiliar with them. why not let TB (the viewer part) back the writer? As implemented in the fabulous news reader 40tude dialog you could consider implementing a (possibly language dependant) file 'acrolang.dat' that contains all known acronyms in the form ACRO=meaning. The viewer can display the acronyms underlined and if the user places the mouse over it, it can display the meaning in a bubble near the mouse cursor. hey I *really* like that!!! -- regards, :eu-flag3: :de-bw: :safaribears: It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind. For men it's called lying. Using The Bat! v3.0.2.4 Rush, Opera v8.00.7401 on WinXP Home v2600 SP2 * PGP key available on request: send mail with subject 'PGP key request' pgpajLkqrrxIs.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
On Thursday, February 17, 2005, at 10:27:46 PM, Maxim Masiutin wrote the following words: That's a cute idea! Another way of solving this problem may be a feature to automatically expand the acronyms. The feature will be ON by default, and the users enought advanced to comprehend the acronyms will be also able to turn this feature OFF. I couldn't disagree more. Any ON by default modifications of messages are a major no-no for me. I don't want to try to respond to someone and ask why they wrote this or that, when they did not, and it only was displayed for me. No, no, no. -- .^,-. sin(pi)ICQ=3.146019 -\---/---X---/- IQ=sin(3.14) `-'|`-' Confucius say: Man who meow eat pussy. Flyin' high with The Bat! v3.0.1.33 over the swamps of Windows 2000 5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello MaXxX! On Thursday, February 17, 2005, 3:51 PM, you wrote: That's a cute idea! Another way of solving this problem may be a feature to automatically expand the acronyms. The feature will be ON by default, and the users enought advanced to comprehend the acronyms will be also able to turn this feature OFF. I couldn't disagree more. Any ON by default modifications of messages are a major no-no for me. I don't want to try to respond to someone and ask why they wrote this or that, when they did not, and it only was displayed for me. No, no, no. I agree with you, MaXxX. If this feature is supplied, the option should be reversed--OFF by dafault, ON by application-users' choice. However--although certainly it should not go in this beta series, in my opinion--the hover-mouse idea (40-tude given as example) would suit me very well, and better than the expanded idea. It's a Trillian Instant Messenger dialogue feature and I have enjoyed it very much. (Trillian's version defines words, also; I think that I would prefer not to have it that expanded in The Bat!) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.0.2.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Should we use acronyms in TBBETA or not?
Hello Maxim, When reading usenet postings I personally find it very helpful. And when reading email messages with TB I sometimes miss it :-) That's a cute idea! Another way of solving this problem may be a feature to automatically expand the acronyms. The feature will be ON by default, and the users enought advanced to comprehend the acronyms will be also able to turn this feature OFF. I'm sure you have heard me and others talk about our previous e-mail client/newsreader called Virtual Access that I used for some 7 years. Well, VA had an option (kind of a plugin IIRC :) that, if activated, when placing the cursor over an acronym it would show a tool-tip with the expansion. I wonder where 40tude got the idea from ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.0.2.10 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Winamp Playing: Slow Train Soul - Twisted Cupid (Smoothjazz.Com - The worlds best Smooth Jazz - Live From Monterey Bay) Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
