[beta23] View Mode and sorting issue
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Look in attachment 1. Sorting is by message creation but TB sort by incoming. View in attachment 2. When you can confirm please create note in bugtrack. -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawskiattachment: 2.pngattachment: 1.png Current beta is 3.99.23 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Sorting issue, more information
Back on sorting problem, I have done proper analysis and now I know exactly what's wrong, even if I don't know why. I have checked message order in the fetch log, to see what was the exact order in which the messages were retrieved from the pop3 server, then I cross-checked the order in which messages are displayed in the folders. I have discovered that when I sort by received date in ascending order (with the newest on top), which is the sorting order I like to use, messages get sorted this way: - on top there are the messages that have been received in the same minute (even in different seconds), but sorted from the first that was received from pop3 to the last. This is wrong, since I have chosen an ascending order, so the last fetched should be on top, instead of the first. - going down, there are messages that were received in different minutes, correctly sorted in ascending order from top to bottom, newest to oldest. So, the issue is that even if I sort in ascending order, where newest messages should be on top, when messages are received from pop3 server in the same minute they get sorted in descending (wrong) order. You can see the screenshot that shows messages received in the same minute got sorted the wrong way (oldest to newest). I don't know why, but the first message of the group that was fetched at 09:54 got sorted in the right order (it's the highlighted one), while all the rest got sorted in the wrong order. I am sure that older versions (maybe 2.x?) did not show this behaviour. Hope this helps identifying the bug. -- Fabio Kurgan Muzzi Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4attachment: thebatsortingissue2.jpg Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
sábado, 30 jul 2005 at 10:52, it seems you wrote:
You can see the screenshot that shows messages received in the same minute
got sorted the wrong way (oldest to newest). I don't know why, but the
first message of the group that was fetched at 09:54 got sorted in the
right order (it's the highlighted one), while all the rest got sorted in
the wrong order.
You could do multiple sorting columns. Press CTRL key while yo select
the order of the columns clicking in the header of the message list.
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Re[2]: Sorting issue, more information
Hello NetVicious, Saturday, July 30, 2005, 12:47:34 PM, you wrote: N You could do multiple sorting columns. Press CTRL key while yo select N the order of the columns clicking in the header of the message list. While this is a great feature that I did not know about, it does not solve my problem. -- Fabio Kurgan Muzzi Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Fabio! On Saturday, July 30, 2005, 3:52 AM, you wrote: So, the issue is that even if I sort in ascending order, where newest messages should be on top, when messages are received from pop3 server in the same minute they get sorted in descending (wrong) order. I can confirm your experience. I was slow to catch on to what was happening to me, because, in TBOT, Yahoogroups so frequently sends messages on to us out of the order of their creation and randomly delayed, such that often we read replies before originals. I had been trying to attribute the out-of-order arrival from the TB! lists to some such phenomenon, but only in my own mind without discussing the issue with anyone. My preference is to read in ascending order, just like you, sorting by received time. Additionally, I thread by None, preferring to read every message and to read chronologically (flagging those of particular interest as I go)--since I do have the time to read the mailing lists this way. The bug is particularly annoying to me, however, in a rapid e-mail exchange PM, where the conversation is functioning almost as if by telephone. Finally, last night I caught on that the messages were arriving chronologically but being sorted in descending order, contrary to my preference. You can see the screenshot that shows messages received in the same minute got sorted the wrong way (oldest to newest). I don't know why, but the first message of the group that was fetched at 09:54 got sorted in the right order (it's the highlighted one), while all the rest got sorted in the wrong order. Yes. Good example. I am sure that older versions (maybe 2.x?) did not show this behaviour. I am sure, too, because I do a considerable amount of back-and-forth PM e-mail conversation with relatives and friends. But I'm not absolutely certain of the point at which the betas broke it. Certainly somewhere in the later 3.51.xx series, I think. If it had been broken in early 3.xx versions, I would most certainly have become aware that I was being annoyed. If you will write a BT issue report, I will confirm the problem as you describe it. I realize there are work-arounds, by giving up my preference and establishing other habits. Still, it is a bug. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Fabio! On Saturday, July 30, 2005, 7:31 AM, you wrote: N You could do multiple sorting columns. Press CTRL key while yo select N the order of the columns clicking in the header of the message list. While this is a great feature that I did not know about, it does not solve my problem. Exactly. I confirm that the problem exists and I will write a supporting note to your BT report, if and when you make one--so please post the link here on TBBETA. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Mary, Saturday, July 30, 2005, 2:31:24 PM, you wrote: MB If you will write a BT issue report, I will confirm the problem as you MB describe it. Here is it: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4998 -- Fabio Kurgan Muzzi Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Fabio Muzzi everyone else, on 30-Jul-2005 at 10:52 you (Fabio Muzzi) wrote: So, the issue is that even if I sort in ascending order, where newest messages should be on top, when messages are received from pop3 server in the same minute they get sorted in descending (wrong) order. If I understood all of this correctly, it boils down to TB not being precise enough in interpreting the received time - it uses the minutes as the smallest unit, while it should really use the seconds, right? -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmic primordial atomic globule. -- Gilbert Sullivan Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Fabio! On Saturday, July 30, 2005, 8:13 AM, you wrote: MB If you will write a BT issue report, I will confirm the problem as you MB describe it. Here is it: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4998 Done. Thanks for the careful write-up. :thankyou: -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Alexander, Saturday, July 30, 2005, 3:24:21 PM, you wrote: So, the issue is that even if I sort in ascending order, where newest messages should be on top, when messages are received from pop3 server in the same minute they get sorted in descending (wrong) order. ASK If I understood all of this correctly, it boils down to TB not being ASK precise enough in interpreting the received time - it uses the minutes as ASK the smallest unit, while it should really use the seconds, right? The tenth of second, er even a shorter time, should be better. I get more than 10 messages/second from my pop3 server. If messages were not sorted at all, in what order would they appear? If this order is descending, sorted by receive date then you are probably right, it's just an accuracy issue, else it's something different. -- Fabio Kurgan Muzzi Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Mary, Saturday, July 30, 2005, 3:29:53 PM, you wrote: Here is it: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4998 MB Done. Thanks for the careful write-up. :thankyou: Thanks, but I can tell you that the issue did show up before 3.5.50, not in the 51 beta series, because my 3.5.50 shows the same issue. (talking about your comment in the BT system) Maybe someone that runs older versions can help us determine when did the problem show up. -- Fabio Kurgan Muzzi Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Fabio. On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 15:40 +0200, Fabio Muzzi wrote: ASK If I understood all of this correctly, it boils down to TB not being ASK precise enough in interpreting the received time - it uses the minutes as ASK the smallest unit, while it should really use the seconds, right? The tenth of second, er even a shorter time, should be better. I get more than 10 messages/second from my pop3 server. ...Thats one of the reasons why I prefer to sort by created, rather than by received date. :-) -- Alexander S. Kunz [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neurowerx.de Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Fabio! On Saturday, July 30, 2005, 8:41 AM, you wrote: Here is it: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4998 MB Done. Thanks for the careful write-up. :thankyou: Thanks, but I can tell you that the issue did show up before 3.5.50, not in the 51 beta series, because my 3.5.50 shows the same issue. (talking about your comment in the BT system) OK. So maybe one of us should put a modifying comment to my note. I'm getting to be notorious for my inaccurate memory. :) Maybe someone that runs older versions can help us determine when did the problem show up. Yes. I hope so. And can also put further confirmation on BT. Sorry for my inaccurate speculation in my BT support, about which version this first appeared in. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Alexander! On Saturday, July 30, 2005, 8:50 AM, you wrote: The tenth of second, er even a shorter time, should be better. I get more than 10 messages/second from my pop3 server. ...Thats one of the reasons why I prefer to sort by created, rather than by received date. :-) But occasionally--especially with Yahoogroups transmissions, which have been experienced as delayed by as much as 2 days--that will result in the message being buried a hundred messages or more down when viewing chronologically, as I greatly prefer to do. And, therefore, occasionally result in a missed post. To my sorrow. And, don't tell me, please, to start threading by Reference, or other view mode, or to stop reading TBOT! ;) SCNR Seriously, I appreciate your contribution here. It *is* a bug, despite the creation time work-around. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Fabio Muzzi everyone else, on 30-Jul-2005 at 15:41 you (Fabio Muzzi) wrote: Maybe someone that runs older versions can help us determine when did the problem show up. You can still run 3.0.1.33 (or the last 3.0 beta, 3.0.2.10) yourself to check this. Versions v3 however have the old filtering system and backwards compatibility is limited. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Under tension, a chain will break at its weakest link. That much is predictable. What is difficult is to identify the weakest link before it breaks. -- Gregory Bateson Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Sorting issue, more information
Hello Alexander, Hello Fabio Muzzi everyone else, on 30-Jul-2005 at 15:41 you (Fabio Muzzi) wrote: Maybe someone that runs older versions can help us determine when did the problem show up. You can still run 3.0.1.33 (or the last 3.0 beta, 3.0.2.10) yourself to check this. Versions v3 however have the old filtering system and backwards compatibility is limited. It is good for v3 and v3.5, also: How can more than one TB! run at the same PC without changing Windows user profiles? - Lets say TB! is stored in C:\Program files\The Bat! - It has a reg key at HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat! A. So you have v1 on the PC, but you would like to try v2? - Rename C:\Program files\The Bat! to C:\Program files\The Bat!v1 - Rename (regedit, registry) HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat! to HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat!v1 - Install v2 to C:\Program files\The Bat! and try - If you would like to temporarily switch back to v1, do this: - Rename C:\Program files\The Bat! to C:\Program files\The Bat!v2 - Rename HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat! to HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat!v2 - Rename C:\Program files\The Bat!v1 to C:\Program files\The Bat! - Rename HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat!v1 to HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat! OR B. If you would like to try v2 as a non-final upgrade from v1: - Copy!! C:\Program files\The Bat! to C:\Program files\The Bat!v1 - Rename HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat! to HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat!v1 - Install v2 to C:\Program files\The Bat! (upgrade) and try - If you would like to temporarily switch back to v1, do this: - Rename C:\Program files\The Bat! to C:\Program files\The Bat!v2 - Rename HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat! to HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat!v2 - Rename C:\Program files\The Bat!v1 to C:\Program files\The Bat! - Rename HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat!v1 to HKCU\Software\RIT\The Bat! To keep the mails from downloading in each version, and other small issues: I leave it for your intelligence :) -- Vili The Bat 3.51.10 on Windows XP SP1 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Sorting issue?
Hello Stuart, Wednesday, July 27, 2005, 2:06:09 PM, you wrote: FM I have found that if I sort messages by receive date, and the receive FM date is the same for some messages (that is, they are all fetched FM from pop3 in the same minute), they are shown in an order that is not FM the same they were received in. SC Unless you have a specific reason for sorting by Received time you may SC want to switch by Created time. This way replies are usually after SC the original message. This is what I'm doing now, actually switching between receive date and create date, because some sender has corrupted clock or wrong timezone, scrambling the list order again. I thought that using receive date could lead to a quite perfectly ordered list. (I know that during its travel between the sender's server and my server mail can get struck in some queue and so I can actually receive some mail out of order, but this is the best we can get) I also seem to recall that in older versions of TB I had no issues with receive time sorting, but maybe it was an old 2.x version. Now I'm running my own mail server, so my pop3 server is on a 100 Mbit connection, and I get mail very fast, maybe 50 messages/second. Maybe another solution could be not to sort anything at all, this should show messages the way they are loaded into message base, but this could not be an option, depending on the way messages are actually inserted into the database. Anyway, I'd like some feedback from Ritlabs: is this a bug? What's the resolution of the received timestamp? Can this problem be solved easily or not? -- Fabio Kurgan Muzzi Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Sorting issue?
Hello tbbeta, I don't know if this is the right list, but I have a possible bug to report. I have found that if I sort messages by receive date, and the receive date is the same for some messages (that is, they are all fetched from pop3 in the same minute), they are shown in an order that is not the same they were received in. This is really annoying since it mixes up replies in lists, putting answers before questions. I think that when messages are sorted by receive date they should be sorted based on a millisecond counter, to be sure that even when fetched all together from the pop3 server (on a fast connection) they still get sorted in the right order, that is the order in which they actually got downloaded from the pop3 server. -- Fabio Kurgan Muzzi Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Sorting issue?
Hello Stuart, On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:06:09 -0500 GMT (27/07/2005, 19:06 +0700 GMT), Stuart Cuddy wrote: SC Unless you have a specific reason for sorting by Received time you may SC want to switch by Created time. This way replies are usually after SC the original message. I have a specific reason to sort by received time instead of created time, and that is that many people don't seem to have their computer clocks set correctly. Like years or centuries wrong, but sometimes exactly 12 hours (I figure those people are not sure about the meaning of am and pm). I received message from Germans in Thailand who have set their computer clocks to Thai time but the time zone stills shows +0200 GMT. Oh well. But I have not experienced the problem that Fabio describes. Over here, it looks like TB is sorting the messages in the same order it receives them from the server. -- Cheers, Thomas. To really annoy people, stand on a street corner, pointing a hair drier at passing traffic, and watch it slow down. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.51.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
