RE:behaviour with the cut line mark
Hello Jonathan, I had some cleanup makro, yes, but removing it and just having %QUOTES in the reply template doesn't make that behaviour go away :-( must be something else. But thanks for the tip, it was worth a try. Saturday, April 10, 2004, 7:29:48 AM, you wrote: On Friday, April 09, 2004, Jurgen Haug wrote... is there a way (in a macro or so) to prevent TB from cutting anything below the cut-line, if that cut-line is not only two - and a space? LIke, I often get mails from people who use as a separator and for whatever reason there's a space at the end of that long line of minuses, too, and the TB jumps on it screaming cut-line! Do you have any special clean up routines in templates or anything? I've noticed this can occur when using the old PGP clean up template, but never took the time to look into it. -- Regards, Jurgen Never hit a man with glasses. Use your fist! Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/16, Opera v7.23.3227 on Win.XP.5.1.2600.SP1 * PGP key available on request: send mail with subject 'PGP key request' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hello, I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender. I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the folder, but it didn't have an affect. I found this as a change in recent versions of TheBat! Don't use From name for Reply-TO addresses option. However, I can't find the option so haven't been able to test it. Sorry for what must have been asked and answered before, but I have spent some time trying to figure it out but gave up. :-) Doug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hallo Doug, On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:58:32 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 9:58 +0200, where I live), you wrote: DW I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying DW to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender. DW I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the DW folder, but it didn't have an affect. That wouldn't influence the address your replies are beingsent to, but that changes the address that answers to your messages are being sent to. I don't know whether that was what you intended When you want to do a list reply, you might choose for several options: 1) Right mouse click on the To: header of the incoming message and go for 'Reply to this address' 2) Use CtrlShiftF5 or via the menu Message-Reply to All in order to reply to the message, that way the message both gets sent to the original poster and the list. This might cause the OP to answer you off list, but you can't get everything. 3) Create a folder reply template that sets the To-address to the list. NOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to reply off list (with a personal message) you can be very embarrassed or even financially duped (depending on the message) by sending a message to the list without intending to do so. Don't think that this won't happen to you, it will, it happens to everybody with folder templates hardcoding the intended recipient. 4) Even though I warned against it. Create a folder forward template that acts like a reply template with the list address hardcoded, use the %ModifyOnce macro to ensure that you can manually edit the To: header in case of a real forward. 5) Use a third party tool (a pop3 proxy ore a mail server) that's able to insert headers. Use it to insert Reply-To headers in those list messages that don't have one, thus causing TB to automatically send replies to the address indicated by the Reply-To header. You'd need to take care that your tool doesn't alter Reply-To headers already present, because the OP might prefer off list replies. 6) Use a filter that saves your list messages to a file by means of a template like this: | Reply-To: list-address | %Headers | | %Text Furthermore the filter should delete the original message and run TB as an external program with the /Import parameter to import the message into TB's message base. (Preferably to the folder you'd like to save those list messages, as imported messages aren't filtered anymore.) Note that this might cause duplicate Reply-To: headers in the list messages and I don't know how TB reacts to that, as there should only be one. I'd go for the first option. DW I found this as a change in recent versions of TheBat! DW Don't use From name for Reply-TO addresses option. DW However, I can't find the option so haven't been able to test it. Unless I'm mistaken by your question, this has nothing to do with what you intended, but you can find it at: Account - Properties - Templates - Reply - somewhere below -- Groetjes, Roelof Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies or rabbits. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Deleting attachments
Hallo Richard, On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:04:38 +0500GMT (10-4-04, 7:04 +0200, where I live), you wrote: RHS Is there a way to ensure that they are deleted from both the RHS message base and the attachment directory without having to manually RHS do it both places? Don't know if it does what you want, but have you tried: Account - Properties - Files Directories - Keep attachments 'Separately in a special directory' I'm not sure what that will do with your attachment (that you'd like to keep) when you're deleting the message. -- Groetjes, Roelof Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies or rabbits. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hi Roelof, Saturday, April 10, 2004, 9:41:54 AM, you wrote: Hallo Doug, On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:58:32 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 9:58 +0200, where I live), you wrote: DW I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying DW to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender. DW I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the DW folder, but it didn't have an affect. That wouldn't influence the address your replies are beingsent to, but that changes the address that answers to your messages are being sent to. I don't know whether that was what you intended Nope, I see what you mean now. When you want to do a list reply, you might choose for several options: 1) Right mouse click on the To: header of the incoming message and go for 'Reply to this address' Trouble is, I forget to do it! When I remember, I do that. 2) Use CtrlShiftF5 or via the menu Message-Reply to All in order to reply to the message, that way the message both gets sent to the original poster and the list. This might cause the OP to answer you off list, but you can't get everything. True, not a bad solution but I know I don't like getting 2 replies. 3) Create a folder reply template that sets the To-address to the list. NOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to reply off list (with a personal message) you can be very embarrassed or even financially duped (depending on the message) by sending a message to the list without intending to do so. Don't think that this won't happen to you, it will, it happens to everybody with folder templates hardcoding the intended recipient. I think I can live with this on the mailing lists I have in mind. Knowing what what I've done is wrong and why, thanks to your response, I've just now put this in the reply template: %To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of the sender's address? [SNIP] DW I found this as a change in recent versions of TheBat! DW Don't use From name for Reply-TO addresses option. DW However, I can't find the option so haven't been able to test it. Unless I'm mistaken by your question, this has nothing to do with what you intended, but you can find it at: Account - Properties - Templates - Reply - somewhere below Thanks. Yes, thinking about it again it has nothing to do with what I want to do.:-) Thanks for such a full and fast response. Doug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hallo Doug, On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:04:54 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 11:04 +0200, where I live), you wrote: DW I think I can live with this on the mailing lists I have in mind. DW Knowing what what I've done is wrong and why, thanks to your response, Just be aware of the risk... DW I've just now put this in the reply template: DW %To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of DW the sender's address? Change it to: %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help) -- Groetjes, Roelof Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies or rabbits. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hi Roelof, Saturday, April 10, 2004, 10:21:45 AM, you wrote: [SNIP] DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of DW the sender's address? Change it to: %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help) Thanks. I've also now found the appropriate help file. Now if I could figure out how to make the reply macro also capitalise the first letter of the recipient's name in Hi %tofname. Is there anyway I can put Ctl+/ in there? Doug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hallo Doug, On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:46:35 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 11:46 +0200, where I live), you wrote: DW Thanks. I've also now found the appropriate help file. Now if I could DW figure out how to make the reply macro also capitalise the first letter DW of the recipient's name in Hi %tofname. From the same helpfile: CAPITAL = textConvert text to title case with a capitalised first letter for every word in the string. CAPITALFIRST = text or UCFIRST = text Convert text to sentence case capitalising the first character of the first word -- Groetjes, Roelof Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies or rabbits. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
On Saturday, April 10, 2004, 4:41 AM, you wrote: DW I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying DW to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender. DW I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the DW folder, but it didn't have an affect. RO When you want to do a list reply, you might choose for several RO options: RO 1) Right mouse click on the To: header of the incoming message and go ROfor 'Reply to this address' RO I'd go for the first option. I have that same problem with a list I'm on, and I use method #1 also, because sometimes I DO reply off-list:0) -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Mar2004 (4.1.357) (avast! version number) 0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of DW the sender's address? RO Change it to: RO %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] RO The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help) nice, I like that! I just used that for my list: %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Mar2004 (4.1.357) (avast! version number) 0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hallo Paul, On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:55:33 -0400GMT (10-4-04, 12:55 +0200, where I live), you wrote: PC nice, I like that! I just used that for my list: PC %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, just keep in mind what i said in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to reply off list (with a personal message) you can be very embarrassed or even financially duped (depending on the message) by sending a message to the list without intending to do so. Don't think that this won't happen to you, it will, it happens to everybody with folder templates hardcoding the intended recipient. I thought I'd better mention it again before calling Marck's eternal wrath over me. -- Groetjes, Roelof Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies or rabbits. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
On Saturday, April 10, 2004, 7:18 AM, you wrote: RONOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to reply off ROlist (with a personal message) you can be very embarrassed or even ROfinancially duped (depending on the message) by sending a message ROto the list without intending to do so. Don't think that this won't ROhappen to you, it will, it happens to everybody with folder ROtemplates hardcoding the intended recipient. I have caught a number of people using folder templates, I understand the concept and issues involved. RO I thought I'd better mention it again before calling Marck's eternal RO wrath over me. what, that kind and sharing moderator???G -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Mar2004 (4.1.357) (avast! version number) 0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Deleting attachments
Roelof, Saturday, April 10, 2004, 1:51:49 PM, you wrote: RO Don't know if it does what you want, but have you tried: RO Account - Properties - Files Directories - Keep RO attachments 'Separately in a special directory' RO I'm not sure what that will do with your attachment (that you'd like RO to keep) when you're deleting the message. I do keep them in a separate directory, but when deleting them from the message they remain there and vice versa. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
On Saturday, April 10, 2004, Paul Cartwright wrote... DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get DW rid of the sender's address? RO Change it to: RO %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] RO The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help) nice, I like that! I just used that for my list: %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] There is some extra safety that you can put in in the case of folder templates which has been suggested if you _have_ to use them... it's an IF :) I don't remember the exact syntax, but something like this: %IF:%TO=:%TO=[EMAIL PROTECTED]:%- Something like that, I think it's been mentioned in the past for folder templates, if you do a search for Marck's folder templates are evil reply, you can normally find a bunch of suggestions ;) -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Support your local medical examiner: die strangely! pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hi Jonathan, Saturday, April 10, 2004, 6:09:12 PM, you wrote: Something like that, I think it's been mentioned in the past for folder templates, if you do a search for Marck's folder templates are evil reply, you can normally find a bunch of suggestions ;) I just searched the archives, and can find a reference by Marck to his 'folder templates are evil lecture', but not the post itself. DOug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Dear Doug, @10-Apr-2004, 20:33 Doug Weller [DW] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Jonathan: Something like that, I think it's been mentioned in the past for folder templates, if you do a search for Marck's folder templates are evil reply, you can normally find a bunch of suggestions ;) DW I just searched the archives, and can find a reference by Marck to his DW 'folder templates are evil lecture', but not the post itself. Okay, okay! I'll bite. stock lecture I have a pet hate in TB. That pet hate is named Folder Templates. In 150 folders I have two and only two that have folder templates. They are for two specific lists which don't set the reply address properly. There is nothing else for which folder templates can be used that can't be covered and even improved upon using Address Book templates. There are dangers in using Folder Templates that are not there when you use AB templates. The dangers are all complacency based and are at their worst in templates which use the %TO= macro. If, at the instant you start a new message you happen to be focused on the wrong folder, the message gets given the wrong address. This happens when you click a mailto without changing folders. The results vary from embarrassing to excruciating depending upon the content of the misdirected mail. BTW - another mistake in such templates is to use the construct %TO=[EMAIL PROTECTED] without a %TO='' before it. So any pre-existing addresses are retained. Back to the lecture: every time I say this, someone takes exception to something I've said with comments like 'danger' is a bit harsh or I've used Folder templates for ages and it's never gone wrong for me. Here's a fact for you: it goes wrong. That's why I'm writing this message yet again. It works exactly as designed and that design has a fundamental flaw. The flaw is that it places too much responsibility on the user to make sure that the addresses given on a new message are those intended. With address book templates, there is never a mistake of this kind. Replies are perfectly directed. New messages are a bit trickier. Instead of clicking to the folder then clicking for a new message, you have to click to the right of the new message button and select the list address from the favourites (having denoted that the address *is* a favourite in the address book). /stock lecture -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Thread color group
There are commands for marking a thread as Read or Unread and Parking or UnParking a thread. Is there an easy way to set an entire thread to a certain color group? Individual messages have many ways of assigning a color group (menu, right click, keyboard shortcuts) - I was wondering if the same was available for marking an entire thread. Thanks. -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Hi Marck, Saturday, April 10, 2004, 8:45:55 PM, you wrote: [SNIP] There is nothing else for which folder templates can be used that can't be covered and even improved upon using Address Book templates. There are dangers in using Folder Templates that are not there when you use AB templates. Ok. I want all my lists to work the same way. At the moment I'm used to clicking on the sender's address in the header field if I want to reply to the sender, and on the reply button if I want to reply to the list, so I'm not too worried about doing it the wrong way with a Folder Template. However -- I'd like to try address templates. I can't find them in the Help file. This is probably because I'm looking in the wrong place, but I also tried the archives and turned up too many pages to go through. Is there a quick guide to these? I've done a web search also and found a bit, but I'm still unclear as to how I'd use these for my purpose (and how to set a group one for my mailing list group) Thanks. Doug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Dear Doug, @10-Apr-2004, 21:38 Doug Weller [DW] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: There are dangers in using Folder Templates that are not there when you use AB templates. DW Ok. I want all my lists to work the same way. Nice ideal but, in fact, there are two different types of list - ones that supply the correct Reply-To header to help you write back to the list and ones that don't. I maintain 2 distinct AB groups too for lists I write to with PGP signing and list that I write to without signing. DW At the moment I'm used to clicking on the sender's address in DW the header field if I want to reply to the sender, and on the DW reply button if I want to reply to the list, so I'm not too DW worried about doing it the wrong way with a Folder Template. Well you should be!!! The first option will *fail* when there is a folder template. All other options will be fine. You will be impeded from replying privately to any posting in a folder which has a reply template that changes the to address. DW However -- I'd like to try address templates. I can't find them DW in the Help file. They're there. Just look up Address book in the index. Every group in the AB can have its own reply templates. There's a link on the first page of AB help to the templates. DW ... (and how to set a group one for my mailing list group) Same as any other. My unsigned list group template (translated slightly) looks something like this: Dear %ABofromHandle(%ABofromFIRSTNAME(%OFROMFNAME)),%- %SINGLERE%QINCLUDE=QSUBJ %wrapped=@%odate, %otime %OFROMNAME [%qinclude(Initials)] %- in %QINCLUDE(MSGID) said %QINCLUDE=StrippedQuotes%- %TO=''%TO='%ABOFROMNamePrefix(%ABOFROMName(%OFROMNAME)) %- on %ABOREPLYHANDLE(%ABOREPLYFIRSTNAME) %OREPLYADDR'%- (cutmark excluded to avoid confusion, but this is where it goes). %QINCLUDE=sig -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
On Saturday, April 10, 2004, 3:45 PM, you wrote: DW I just searched the archives, and can find a reference by Marck to his DW 'folder templates are evil lecture', but not the post itself. MDP Okay, okay! I'll bite. no, don't bite! I heard you were a nice sharing kinda guy:) MDP stock lecture ok, I'll make SURE I add the: %TO='' string ;) wait, I had it as this way: %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] you used single quotes.. -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Mar2004 (4.1.357) (avast! version number) 0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists
Dear Paul, @10-Apr-2004, 17:59 -0400 (10-Apr 22:59 UK time) Paul Cartwright [PC] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: MDP Okay, okay! I'll bite. PC no, don't bite! I heard you were a nice sharing kinda guy:) grrrNASH! MDP stock lecture PC ok, I'll make SURE I add the: %TO='' string ;) PC wait, I had it as this way: PC %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay. That will work. PC you used single quotes.. shrug use either - use underscores - use hash signs. Any matched character pair will do: %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] %To=''%To='[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Thread color group
Ken Green, [KG] wrote: KG Is there an easy way to set an entire thread to a certain color KG group? Individual messages have many ways of assigning a color KG group (menu, right click, keyboard shortcuts) - I was wondering if KG the same was available for marking an entire thread. It would appear not. You'd have to do it manually, i.e., expand the thread, select all messages in the thread and then apply the colour group. -- -=[ Allie ]=- (List Moderator and fellow end-user) PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Running The Bat! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Thread color group
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:27:25 GMT, Allie Martin wrote: You'd have to do it manually, i.e., expand the thread, select all messages in the thread and then apply the colour group. Or set a filter on the subject or reference and run it manually. Thereafter new messages would be colored appropriately automatically. -- JN Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
