Re: Can't remove v5
On Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 9:16:20 AM, Mark Partous wrote: > Hello Dwight, > Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 3:36:01 PM, you wrote: DC>> real name is? > ,--/ From Wikipedia \ > | Komando was born and raised in New Jersey. According to her > show's website, "Komando" is her actual last name, and is > | Russian-Ukrainian.[4] Her father was a businessman. Her mother > was part of the team that developed UNIX. > | > | At 16, she graduated from high school. She went on to attend > Arizona State University, graduating at 20 with a degree > | in computer information systems. [5] While in school, she > trained people to use their computers. > | > `-8<--- I guess that translates into plain language as "unknown" or maybe "uncertain" -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 5.0.20 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Dwight, On Tuesday, July 26, 2011 you wrote: DC> On Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 7:51:30 AM, Jack S. LaRosa wrote: DC> >> Kim Komando DC> real name is? DC> Sorry. I forget sometimes that this list is world-wide. Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Komando -- Jack LaRosa Using The Bat! ver: 4.2.44.2. Running Windows XP Pro ver 5 build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Dwight, Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 3:36:01 PM, you wrote: DC> real name is? ,--/ From Wikipedia \ | Komando was born and raised in New Jersey. According to her show's website, "Komando" is her actual last name, and is | Russian-Ukrainian.[4] Her father was a businessman. Her mother was part of the team that developed UNIX. | | At 16, she graduated from high school. She went on to attend Arizona State University, graduating at 20 with a degree | in computer information systems. [5] While in school, she trained people to use their computers. | `-8<--- -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! 4.2.33.1 Beta 159 days remaining in 2011. Actually it's 524 days) + less than 24 hours. Yours truly residing on earth for 19614 days now. Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Alto, Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 9:37:55 AM, you wrote: AS> I've learned about the risks tools of the sort pose the hard way. I've AS> spent hours trying to undo the damage that they caused on more than AS> one occasion, years ago on my own machines, since then only on systems AS> I have to repair because their owner used just that kind of software. Etc. Reply follows later, no time for longer answer now -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! 4.2.33.1 Beta 159 days remaining in 2011. Actually it's 524 days) + less than 24 hours. Yours truly residing on earth for 19614 days now. Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Jack, > I understand your concern Alto as I had those same concerns > when I first used Revo, I had no idea what it was showing me > (that it said should be deleted) [...] It's just that I have seen the most curious behaviour that had started seemingly out of nowhere and in the end was tracable to a single registry entry that had erronously been deleted by such a tool (I used to use CleanSweep.) > The thought that my registry was just filling up with now useless > entries [...] Windows only loads the part of the registry that it currently needs to access. The number of unused entries in the registry has almost no consequence at all, it doesn't use any more RAM or cost performance. The only visible sign you might notice is that the registry files on hard disk grow larger over time, but with today's HDD cpacities, who cares if the files are 5 MB or 10 MB in size? So yes, we are in total agreement in our disdain for applications that don't do their housekeeping properly. But bottom line is: It's just cosmetics, it really doesn't matter if they do or don't. On the other hand, you can get into a lot of trouble if you clean up manually and make a mistake. That's why I don't do it anymore. If some application feels it needs to leave the odd file hanging around after departing - so be it. ;-) -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:a...@treadstone79.de pgpUoiUL4n47y.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
On Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 7:51:30 AM, Jack S. LaRosa wrote: > Kim Komando real name is? -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 5.0.20 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Alto, On Tuesday, July 26, 2011 you wrote: AS> Hello Jack, >> I've used Revo Uninstaller (free version) for many years and never >> once have I had a problem with it removing anything I needed. I >> don't even question the things it wants to remove anymore and just >> let it have it's way, confident that nothing will be harmed. AS> My point exactly. The "artificial intelligence" of such programs just AS> isn't (can't be) good enough to handle all situations without fail, AS> and the user is tempted to just click "do it" instead of verifying AS> each step himself. AS> If it helps you out of tight spots, great. However, if anyone states AS> "I used Revo [make that any kind of] uninstaller", to me this means AS> that "let go of all hope and reinstall Windows, if you want any kind AS> of reliable system conditions again." I understand your concern Alto as I had those same concerns when I first used Revo, I had no idea what it was showing me (that it said should be deleted) but the fact that programmers would write code that did not completely remove all traces of itself when uninstalled was extremely undisciplined and just pushed me over the edge. The thought that my registry was just filling up with now useless entries was more than I could tolerate. Call me foolish for feeling that way but I couldn't help it and Revo offered to clean up all that useless stuff without harming my system. And so it has all these years. I learned of Revo Uninstaller from Kim Komando whose knowledge I have come to trust. She has her detractors but then, what radio/newspaper "celebrity" doesn't. I have taken her computer advice for many years and have yet to regret doing anything she recommended. If she gave bad advice you can rest assured that the news of it would be splashed all over the airwaves and the newspapers for which she writes. I think the same holds true for Revo. If it wasn't able to live up to what it claims, it would have crashed and burned a long time ago. Maybe Mark and I and others have been lucky, or maybe the program just works like it says it does. -- Jack LaRosa Using The Bat! ver: 4.2.44.2. Running Windows XP Pro ver 5 build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Jack, > I've used Revo Uninstaller (free version) for many years and never > once have I had a problem with it removing anything I needed. I > don't even question the things it wants to remove anymore and just > let it have it's way, confident that nothing will be harmed. My point exactly. The "artificial intelligence" of such programs just isn't (can't be) good enough to handle all situations without fail, and the user is tempted to just click "do it" instead of verifying each step himself. If it helps you out of tight spots, great. However, if anyone states "I used Revo [make that any kind of] uninstaller", to me this means that "let go of all hope and reinstall Windows, if you want any kind of reliable system conditions again." :-) -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:a...@treadstone79.de pgpNB9E9O1dBK.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hi Mark, > I suppose you haven't used Revo Uninstaller yet. I've learned about the risks tools of the sort pose the hard way. I've spent hours trying to undo the damage that they caused on more than one occasion, years ago on my own machines, since then only on systems I have to repair because their owner used just that kind of software. > 1) First it creates a system restore point before uninstalling a program > 2) Then it uses the program's own uninstall (if any) These are built-in functions. You wouldn't need a seperate program to do this. > 3) After that it offers the possibility to search the registry for any > leftovers, >lists them and leaves the user the choice wether he wants to > remove any of these (all individually selectable) > 4) Finally it can search for any left over files and folders. Once > again it is up to the user to decide wether he wants >to delete them or not (none are selected automatically, as is > the case for the registry items in point 3 and the user >can skip steps 3 and 4) (x) That's the problem. After program uninstall, the user is (at best) presented with a long list of "found" items and has to decide whether to remove them or not. Usually, this simply can't be decided: Do you remove registry entries from the class path or not? Do you remove this DLL from the Windows system path or not? Are you positive that no other program is using this file? What if the install in question has replaced/"touched" the file, while it had already been present before? Your uninstaller would recommend removing it, but the program that had placed the original version there wouldn't work anymore. > I use Revo Uninstaller Pro for a couple of years now and it isn't > longer than yesterday that I was very happy to have it. I wouldn't want to tell you what's best for your system or not, this is your decision. However, from my experience these tools are to be avoided like the plague. It's exactly this sort of utilities that prompted the "Windows has to be reinstalled every few years because it is getting slower over time" myth. If you know what you're doing, you may be able to avoid the traps. No doubt about it. But then you should be able to accomplish most of the program's functions whithout it, and at lower risk to the system. > BTW: the trick you suggested (renaming (or removing) thebat.exe did > not work for me when trying to go back to 4. I see. Sorry to hear that. What happened when you tried to run the "new old" EXE? -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:a...@treadstone79.de pgpiTTb06l8AW.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Mark, On Monday, July 25, 2011 you wrote: MP> Hello Alto, MP> Monday, July 25, 2011, 5:37:47 PM, you wrote: AS>> Bad idea. You never know what tools like this do or do not remove, AS>> what may or may not belong to the program you're working on. MP> I suppose you haven't used Revo Uninstaller yet. MP> 1) First it creates a system restore point before uninstalling a program MP> 2) Then it uses the program's own uninstall (if any) MP> 3) After that it offers the possibility to search the registry for any leftovers, MP>lists them and leaves the user the choice wether he wants to remove any of these (all individually selectable) MP> 4) Finally it can search for any left over files and folders. Once again it is up to the user to decide wether he wants MP>to delete them or not (none are selected automatically, as is the case for the registry items in point 3 and the user MP>can skip steps 3 and 4) (x) I just wanted to confirm what Mark is saying here. I've used Revo Uninstaller (free version) for many years and never once have I had a problem with it removing anything I needed. I don't even question the things it wants to remove anymore and just let it have it's way, confident that nothing will be harmed. But, because I know how well it works, I was reluctant to let it remove TB because I was afraid it would remove my message base or something else required for TB to run. Like Mark, I too have had programs which simply refused to be removed through conventional means only to have them obliterated finally by Revo; and, you can't beat free. -- Jack LaRosa Using The Bat! ver: 4.2.44.2. Running Windows XP Pro ver 5 build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Alto, Monday, July 25, 2011, 5:37:47 PM, you wrote: AS> Bad idea. You never know what tools like this do or do not remove, AS> what may or may not belong to the program you're working on. I suppose you haven't used Revo Uninstaller yet. 1) First it creates a system restore point before uninstalling a program 2) Then it uses the program's own uninstall (if any) 3) After that it offers the possibility to search the registry for any leftovers, lists them and leaves the user the choice wether he wants to remove any of these (all individually selectable) 4) Finally it can search for any left over files and folders. Once again it is up to the user to decide wether he wants to delete them or not (none are selected automatically, as is the case for the registry items in point 3 and the user can skip steps 3 and 4) (x) I use Revo Uninstaller Pro for a couple of years now and it isn't longer than yesterday that I was very happy to have it. I bought an upgrade for OmniPage 18 (coming from 17). The installer kept saying that an earlier version was still on my computer and had to be removed before I could install version 18. It seems to be a known problem since Nuance has created a tool specifically to remove earlier versions. Well, Nuance's tool wasn't able to do the job. I thought it had to do with PaperPort (which has a Omipage-dll of it's own) and PDF Converter/Creator from the same company that are installed too. At last, I used "Search Everything" to find any leftover files/folders with OmniPage in their name and removed those with Revo through the right mouse-click context-menu. These appeared to be left-overs from pre-OmniPage 15 versions and if I would simply have deleted those files, there would still have been left-overs in the Registry. Oh well, everyone has to decide for him/herself wether or not to use Revo Uninstaller (Pro), but this is not the kind of tool that does things without leaving the user the choice (as many "competitors" do). (x) When removing TB! nothing isn't removed that TB! itself would not remove during phase 1. But TB! did not remove everything from the either. BTW: the trick you suggested (renaming (or removing) thebat.exe did not work for me when trying to go back to 4. -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! 4.2.33.1 Beta 160 days remaining in 2011. Actually it's 525 days) + less than 24 hours. Yours truly residing on earth for 19613 days now. Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Alto, On Monday, July 25, 2011 you wrote: AS> Hi, >> Unfortunately, I can't delete version 5. I've used Windows Add and >> Remove Programs [...] AS> What happened when you ran the uninstaller? >> and when that didn't work, used the Revo uninstaller. AS> Bad idea. You never know what tools like this do or do not remove, AS> what may or may not belong to the program you're working on. >> I would really like to revert to v4.2.44 [...] AS> If you have a full backup anyway, why don't you try a more direct AS> approach: Rename thebat.exe to thebat.exe.v5, then do a standard AS> install of v4. Afterwards there should be a "new old" thebat.exe AS> there, which should ideally be able to handle your existing AS> messagebase. If it can not, you're no worse off than before, just AS> reinstall v5 again and if necessary restore your backup. Wow! That was easy. I did exactly as the above paragraph suggests and in seconds, I'm once again running v4.2.44.2. Everything seems to be where it should be. I don't think I'll be so quick to upgrade in the future. Thank you Alto and Si. Alas, if only all tech support were this good. -- Jack LaRosa Using The Bat! ver: 4.2.44.2. Running Windows XP Pro ver 5 build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hello Jack, On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:01:12 -0500 (your time) you said: > I would really like to revert to v4.2.44 but have no idea > what I'm doing wrong or if I'm worrying about things that > will be ok if I do successfully revert at some point. Delete thebat.exe from the install folder, and run the 4.2.44 setup and install over the top! That worked for me and others. -- Si #13709. I Her Go Wed Snow? ¶ Auxiliary Information: • The Bat! Pro 4.2.44.2 • Extended Macro Plugin 1.2.1.0 • Windows XP Pro 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 • Scanned by avast! Plugin DB Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Can't remove v5
Hi, > Unfortunately, I can't delete version 5. I've used Windows Add and > Remove Programs [...] What happened when you ran the uninstaller? > and when that didn't work, used the Revo uninstaller. Bad idea. You never know what tools like this do or do not remove, what may or may not belong to the program you're working on. > I would really like to revert to v4.2.44 [...] If you have a full backup anyway, why don't you try a more direct approach: Rename thebat.exe to thebat.exe.v5, then do a standard install of v4. Afterwards there should be a "new old" thebat.exe there, which should ideally be able to handle your existing messagebase. If it can not, you're no worse off than before, just reinstall v5 again and if necessary restore your backup. -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:a...@treadstone79.de pgpqqVyzdC9nj.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Can't remove v5
Greetings Bat People, Like many others on the list, I too feel the need to revert to an earlier version. I've learned from the list that you can't just reinstall an earlier version but have to remove v5 first. Unfortunately, I can't delete version 5. I've used Windows Add and Remove Programs and when that didn't work, used the Revo uninstaller. Admittedly I did not run Revo balls to the wall, full on because at one point in the removal process it showed that it was going to remove a whole bunch of stuff (like my custom .wav files) that I didn't want removed. I declined that part of it. I did do a backup of v5 before attempting to remove it in the hopes that if everything crashed and burned, I might be able to get myself back to a working program even if it was still v5. What exactly does a backup contain? Would the .wav files be in there? Will a previous version (should I ever be able to load one) be able to use a backup made by v5? Revo is pretty thorough and I'm terrified that I'm going to lose all my messages and more if I allow it to run full bore. I would really like to revert to v4.2.44 but have no idea what I'm doing wrong or if I'm worrying about things that will be ok if I do successfully revert at some point. -- TIA, Jack LaRosa Using The Bat! ver: 5.0.8. Running Windows XP Pro ver 5 build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.2.42 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
