Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam (and possible list serv alt)

[Mark Aston]

Hi Jamie,

Sunday, August 27, 2000, 7:20:44 PM, you wrote:

JD> Up  in  the  grim  North  of  England sarcasm is classed as the second
JD> highest  form  of  humour  (first  is  northerners  carrying pianos up
JD> steps).  It's  very  easy  for  a  little  sarcastic  comment  to seem
JD> offensive.  Yeah  wait  till  that new  betas out, or someone comes up
JD> with   a  really  clever  idea  (why  can't  tb!  have  an  integrated
JD> spreadsheet/toaster/coffee maker?).

..and in the South of England, making fun of Northerners is
the highest class of humour:-) Hey op lad how's T'Bat! I'll wager Thou
be wantin' an integrated mushy peas and Yorkshire pud maker next:-)
Please reply by pigeon!


-- 

Mark Aston   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


http://www.gunfleet.com



Using The Bat! 1.46 Beta/3
Under Windows NT 5 0 Service Pack 1 2195



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Re[2]: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam (and possible list serv alt)

[Jamie Dainton]

Hello Thomas,

Saturday, August 26, 2000, 3:04:15 PM, you wrote:

TF> Hallo A,

TF> On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:19:53 -0500 GMT (26/08/2000, 21:19 +0800 GMT),
TF> A . Curtis Martin wrote:

ACM>> Is it the trouting or is it since the my appointment? ;-b

ACM>> The list had a bad spell and everyone's warming back up. In a few weeks
ACM>> we'll be needing a lot of trout. ;-b

TF> If you try to imply that people write less cause you're mod, forget
TF> it. :-P Turns out that TBUDL gets busy every time a new beta is out
TF> (duno why this is connected), so be warned ;-)


The mod (revised) rules did seem a bit harsh at first. Many of use who
had  been  trouted  before  were  worried about being banned for minor
errors.

Up  in  the  grim  North  of  England sarcasm is classed as the second
highest  form  of  humour  (first  is  northerners  carrying pianos up
steps).  It's  very  easy  for  a  little  sarcastic  comment  to seem
offensive.  Yeah  wait  till  that new  betas out, or someone comes up
with   a  really  clever  idea  (why  can't  tb!  have  an  integrated
spreadsheet/toaster/coffee maker?).

Could  the  list server be set up to look for a html header, block the
post  and  auto  trout the sender? I know we don't get many html mails
but  it  could  be a nice idea. Also if anyone wants to see how a list
should  not  be  run/moderated/written  to  visit  ReBoot  My  PC  at
www.topica.com



-- 
>From Jamie Dainton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Sunday, August 27, 2000 7:16:11 PM
Using The Bat! 1.45 Beta/11
Windows 98 4.10 

The Bat



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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo A,

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:19:53 -0500 GMT (26/08/2000, 21:19 +0800 GMT),
A . Curtis Martin wrote:

ACM> Is it the trouting or is it since the my appointment? ;-b

ACM> The list had a bad spell and everyone's warming back up. In a few weeks
ACM> we'll be needing a lot of trout. ;-b

If you try to imply that people write less cause you're mod, forget
it. :-P Turns out that TBUDL gets busy every time a new beta is out
(duno why this is connected), so be warned ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46 Beta/3
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[A . Curtis Martin]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:26:03 +0100, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote:

GB>> Oops, I think I see a trout being swung in my direction.

MDP> I  have  noticed  that since the introduction of trouting the list has
MDP> become *so* much easier to moderate .

Is it the trouting or is it since the my appointment? ;-b

The list had a bad spell and everyone's warming back up. In a few weeks
we'll be needing a lot of trout. ;-b

-- 
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Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Gene,

On 26 August 2000 at 20:55:01 GMT -0400 (which was 01:55 where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject
of ": Re: TheBat and Spam":

>>> -  Filter  rules  for  messages from news and other promo sites to
>>> which I have subscribed.

>> Pst.  You misspelled "porno".  :)

GB> Steve! You naughty boy! Where is your head?  :-)

GB> Oops, I think I see a trout being swung in my direction.

I  have  noticed  that since the introduction of trouting the list has
become *so* much easier to moderate .

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck

><
>< PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ><
>< PGP Key:  ><

 Clones are people, two

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
TB! v1.46 Beta/3 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i
Comment: PGP Signed so you know it's really me

iQA/AwUBOad/GznkJKuSnc2gEQIXcgCdEP6jIigXaqgfK0JjLp3WOLBasSoAmwei
xQ1PCryvvZRvplES6DX4t463
=fKkH
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Keith Russell]

Hello, fellow Bat-lovers.

On Friday, August 25, 2000, 4:58:27 PM, Allie wrote:

> You seem to have a serious spam problem. For me about 10-20 spam
> messages reach me per week.

Not too much different from me. Out of literally hundreds of messages
per day, 2 or 3 are spam.

> Of all of them 1 will hit my inbox per
> month!

This is the difference. All of my spam is showing up in my inbox 8-(.
My list messages are filtered to their own folders, so the percentage
of my Inbox messages (supposed to be the ones I read first) is high.
This is what I'm dealing with now.

> That's how good my method works for me. It's simple. Doesn't
> require the use of regular expressions and other external anti-spam apps
> that can make you lose potentially legitimate messages and even moreso,
> cause a headache to get working properly. :-)

Exactly! Who knows, maybe I can get by without Pobox's filtering.
I'll have to see what kind of success I have with my new TB filter
structure.

Thanks.

-- 
 Keith Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using The Bat! %THEBATVERSION under %WINDOWSPLATFORMNAME 
%WINDOWSMAJORVERSION.%WINDOWSMINORVERSION Build %WINDOWSBUILDNUMBER %WINDOWSCSDVERSION 
on a Pentium II 233 with 64 MB.

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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Gene Brown]

On Friday, August 25, 2000, Steve wrote:

> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:55:20 -0700
> From: Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1

> Thursday, August 24, 2000, 3:49:00 PM, A wrote:
>> - Filter rules for messages from news and other promo sites to which I
>>   have subscribed.

> Pst.  You misspelled "porno".  :)

Steve! You naughty boy! Where is your head?  :-)

Oops, I think I see a trout being swung in my direction.



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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[A . Curtis Martin]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:17:53 -0600, Keith Russell wrote:


KR> Has anyone tried anything like this? What have been your
KR> experiences? Suggestions?

You seem to have a serious spam problem. For me about 10-20 spam
messages reach me per week. Of all of them 1 will hit my inbox per
month! That's how good my method works for me. It's simple. Doesn't
require the use of regular expressions and other external anti-spam apps
that can make you lose potentially legitimate messages and even moreso,
cause a headache to get working properly. :-)

-- 
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Using TB! v1.46 Beta/3 «» Win2k Pro SP1
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

"Oxymoron: Sisterly Love. "

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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Steve Lamb]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Thursday, August 24, 2000, 3:49:00 PM, A wrote:
> - Filter rules for messages from news and other promo sites to which I
>   have subscribed.

Pst.  You misspelled "porno".  :)

- --
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
- ---+-

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBOabrSHpf7K2LbpnFEQJeqwCg4IK488lykwyO6ujQbtSKniTbAREAniwM
3y6eEIR5qwhH3zeftR9yKvme
=G1Pt
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[2]: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Keith Russell]

Hello, fellow Bat-lovers.

I know there are other Pobox users on this list, and I'm curious to
know whether anyone has expanded on the methods described by Allie and
others, to incorporate sub-filtering of messages already prefiltered by
Pobox.

For those who haven't seen the way Pobox handles this, they run a
message through their filters, and if it's identified as potential
spam, a string such as "[spam score 10.00/10.0-pobox]" or "[spam score
3.04/10.0-pobox]" is prepended to the subject.

Up until now, I have not used these spam "ratings", other than as a
quick clue before I look at the message more closely--largely because
I have gotten a lot of false positives attached to messages I wouldn't
want to lose. However, I would like to begin using this information
more effectively.

In just checking the Pobox Web page, I discovered that they have now
fine tuned the spam settings at the server level, so that I can choose
a threshold above which messages will be flagged, and another above
which messages will be deleted from the server. That way, I might only
see messages flagged if the rating is above 5, and never see those
rated above 9. (When they first started this service, it was
essentially limited to "filter" or "don't filter".)

Alternatively, I could choose a wider range and further filter them
with TB into various mailboxes. The extreme, of course, would be to
filter all 1's into one mailbox, 2's into another, and so on through
10, but that would clearly be overkill--and plain ridiculous. Another
way would be to send 10.00's only to a "Spam" folder (or delete them),
and send all others to a "Potential Spam" folder.

I haven't completely thought this through, and it will take some
experimentation and fine tuning to get it working the way I want it,
so I've simply been brainstorming with some of the above thoughts. I
hope my ramblings have made some sense.

Has anyone tried anything like this? What have been your experiences?
Suggestions?

And for you regular expression gurus out there, what could I use to
select, for example, all messages with ratings between 5.01 and 9.99,
for example?

TIA

-- 
 Keith Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
...I tried to daydream, but my mind kept wandering.


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Re[2]: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[ztrader]

I've been using the Spambouncer on a shell account for many years. It
works VERY well! See http://www.spambouncer.org/

It comes in two parts, one is customized to fit personal stuff, and
the other is a large program to do rather detailed filtering of spam.
Anyone interested in what it takes to do a *good* job on spam might
look at the code. All is free, and the procmail code is posted and
used to filter.

On a later wish list it might be nice to 'add-on' such a sophisticated
filtering technique.

In the meantime, how would one go about using this code to filter
mail, assuming you do NOT have shell access or file permissions on
your email ISP host. It would have to be done on the local/Win
machine. Any ideas?

This works very well, and I 'd like to use it, but can't think of a
way to do it. No Win/procmail, that I know of, and no easy hook to the
message stream.

-- 
Best regards,
 ztradermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[A . Curtis Martin]

On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:01:33 +1000, John Phillips wrote:

JP> For the computer challenged amongst us (present company excepted of
JP> course ), can you post a copy of these filters? Thanks.

Kind of an impractical request but let me see if my illustration will
make you better understand. For one to understand and implement this
method, it needs to be realised that when a message is filtered, it
isn't subject to subsequent filtering by filter rules that are after the
rule which matched the message (unless you enable the 'continue
processing with other filters' switch).

This is how my filtering looks schematically:

- PGPKey request filter

- Discussion list filters here.

- Filter rules for messages from friends

- Filter rules for messages from family

- Filter rules for messages from news and other promo sites to which I
  have subscribed.

All that's left to be filtered are messages addressed directly to me
that are from individuals or groups for which I haven't created filters
and messages being BCC'd to me.

Let's continue with the filtering:

- I now create a non-specific filter rule to match messages with 'To:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the headers. By now, 98-99% of the messages left
  are spam.

Last but not least:

- I create a non-specific filter rule to match *any* message and move
  them to the spam folder. I use the filter string 'e' since the letter
  'e' appears in all messages.  One could simply make the filter delete
  the message but this may lead to an occasional legitimate message that
  has been BCC'd to you being lost.

  TB! however has per-folder settings to purge folders which is nice. I
  have my spam folder set to keep messages no longer than a week.

-- 
-=A. Curtis Martin=-
Using TB! v1.46 Beta/3 «» Win2k Pro SP1
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

"SENILE.COM found: out of memory... "

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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Leif Gregory]

Hello John, 

On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 at 17:01:33 [GMT +1000], you wrote:
JP> Steve my Shrink,

JP> For the computer challenged amongst us (present company excepted
JP> of course ), can you post a copy of these filters? Thanks.

How would he do that? It's filtering SPAM by exception, meaning that
you create filters for things you want to keep, and everything else is
caught by the last filter as SPAM. About the only filter he might have
in common this way is for TBUDL and TBBETA (even then there is no
guarantee), and maybe the last filter to move SPAM to the trash.
Everything else is going to be fairly unique to Steve based on his
family, friends, mailing/discussion lists he's subscribed to etc.



Cheers,
Leif Gregory 

--  
TBUDL/TBBETA List Moderator
ICQ 216395 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Web Site   
TBUDL FAQ  

Using The Bat! 1.46 Beta/3 under Windows 98 4.10 Build  A  
on a Pentium III 500 MHz notebook with 128MB.

Tagline of the day:
A bunch of bunnies hopping backwards:  a receding hare line.

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Re: Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[John Phillips]

Hello

Monday, August 14, 2000, 5:50:58 PM, you wrote:

SL> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
SL> Hash: SHA1

SL> Once again the question of effective filtering of spam has come up and
SL> once again people have made suggestions which simply do not work.  A "bozo
SL> bin" doesn't work because spammers most likely move to a different address
SL> before you even check your mail and read the message.  All they do is provide
SL> an extra filter that needs to be run and virtually nil chance of catching
SL> anyone.

SL> Filters on subjects or on pseudo-techincal means also fail because they
SL> generate false positives, are ineffective (maake monie know!), and can block
SL> legit users for dubious return.

SL> So, without futher buildup, here's the system that I put to this list back
SL> in January.  Let me know that in that time I had instituted that filter on my
SL> home account and was catching 2-3 spam a day and cannot recall a single
SL> positive hit /aside/ from when I started a new list and hadn't gotten a
SL> message in from it yet to set up the filtering.

SL> In another message in a related thread I noted that I had once figured out
SL> hit hit/miss/false positive hit ratio on my mail.  Something like 99.95% hit,
SL> .001% false positive with the remainder, .049%, being spam getting through to
SL> my inbox.  That was over several years of using that system on PMMail on an
SL> account that was spammed heavily and on which I got in excess of 500 messages
SL> per day.

SL> Frankly, this should be a FAQ.

SL> ===Original message text===
SL> From: Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
SL> To: Fred Weissman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
SL> Date: Monday, January 10, 2000, 11:10:57 AM
SL> Subject: TheBat and Spam

SL> Monday, January 10, 2000, 9:57:35 AM, Fred wrote:
>> little while.  Today, this quote caught my eye.  Can you tell me about
>> your spam system?  Where can I find the specifics for it?  Will it in
>> fact do what tracer asks (i.e. dump mail which has sender=receiver)?

SL> No, it doesn't do that.  However, it doesn't have to.  Allie recently sent
SL> a message out that described it so you might have it.  If not, here's the
SL> short version.

SL> The two basic premises are this:

SL> 1: Nearly every spammer BCCs.
SL> 2: People get mail from two sources, directly addressed to them from
SL> individuals they know or mass mailed (BCC) mailing lists they signed up for.

SL> Instead of trying to filter spam, we're going to define a set of rules to
SL> filter everything but spam.

SL> So, we set up a series of filters.  The first batch filters out all the
SL> mailing lists that the individual is on.  Most people do this anyway.  Once
SL> they filter it, it stops.

SL> The second series of filters catches mail from individuals who /may/ BCC
SL> the person.  Friends, family, loved ones, work colleagues, etc.

SL> The next to last filter stops filtering on anything which is directly
SL> addressed to the individual.

SL> The last filter moves everything that wasn't caught by the above filters
SL> into a spam folder for the person to double check for something that might
SL> have been missed and final deletion.

SL> Another way to put it is like this...  If it isn't a mailing list, from
SL> friends/relatives or directly addressed to you, chances are high that it is
SL> spam.

SL> In tracer's case, if sender = recipient chances are it isn't on a mailing
SL> list he is on, it isn't from someone he expects to BCC him, and, clearly, it
SL> isn't from him.  It will be filtered.

SL> - --
SL>  Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
SL>  ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
SL> - ---+-

SL> End of original message text===

SL> - --
SL>  Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
SL>  ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
SL> - ---+-

SL> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
SL> Version: PGP 6.5i

SL> iQA/AwUBOZek4npf7K2LbpnFEQLgvwCgk631yX18d3rCX+0DPSCIAaL9Q3AAnjrR
SL> 9SLSmd7ItKy3Bz3XDMmDFXpF
SL> =yOhM
SL> -END PGP SIGNATURE-

Steve my Shrink,

For the computer challenged amongst us (present company excepted of
course ), can you post a copy of these filters?  Thanks.


-- 
Regards
John Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam

[Steve Lamb]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Once again the question of effective filtering of spam has come up and
once again people have made suggestions which simply do not work.  A "bozo
bin" doesn't work because spammers most likely move to a different address
before you even check your mail and read the message.  All they do is provide
an extra filter that needs to be run and virtually nil chance of catching
anyone.

Filters on subjects or on pseudo-techincal means also fail because they
generate false positives, are ineffective (maake monie know!), and can block
legit users for dubious return.

So, without futher buildup, here's the system that I put to this list back
in January.  Let me know that in that time I had instituted that filter on my
home account and was catching 2-3 spam a day and cannot recall a single
positive hit /aside/ from when I started a new list and hadn't gotten a
message in from it yet to set up the filtering.

In another message in a related thread I noted that I had once figured out
hit hit/miss/false positive hit ratio on my mail.  Something like 99.95% hit,
.001% false positive with the remainder, .049%, being spam getting through to
my inbox.  That was over several years of using that system on PMMail on an
account that was spammed heavily and on which I got in excess of 500 messages
per day.

Frankly, this should be a FAQ.

===Original message text===
From: Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Fred Weissman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, January 10, 2000, 11:10:57 AM
Subject: TheBat and Spam

Monday, January 10, 2000, 9:57:35 AM, Fred wrote:
> little while.  Today, this quote caught my eye.  Can you tell me about
> your spam system?  Where can I find the specifics for it?  Will it in
> fact do what tracer asks (i.e. dump mail which has sender=receiver)?

No, it doesn't do that.  However, it doesn't have to.  Allie recently sent
a message out that described it so you might have it.  If not, here's the
short version.

The two basic premises are this:

1: Nearly every spammer BCCs.
2: People get mail from two sources, directly addressed to them from
individuals they know or mass mailed (BCC) mailing lists they signed up for.

Instead of trying to filter spam, we're going to define a set of rules to
filter everything but spam.

So, we set up a series of filters.  The first batch filters out all the
mailing lists that the individual is on.  Most people do this anyway.  Once
they filter it, it stops.

The second series of filters catches mail from individuals who /may/ BCC
the person.  Friends, family, loved ones, work colleagues, etc.

The next to last filter stops filtering on anything which is directly
addressed to the individual.

The last filter moves everything that wasn't caught by the above filters
into a spam folder for the person to double check for something that might
have been missed and final deletion.

Another way to put it is like this...  If it isn't a mailing list, from
friends/relatives or directly addressed to you, chances are high that it is
spam.

In tracer's case, if sender = recipient chances are it isn't on a mailing
list he is on, it isn't from someone he expects to BCC him, and, clearly, it
isn't from him.  It will be filtered.

- --
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
- ---+-

End of original message text===

- --
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
- ---+-

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