Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-07 Thread Peter Palmreuther

On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:32:37 -0500
Art Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 but why would the CONTENTS of the message keep changing when you
 review it in the TB! Preview pane?

Have a look at the source (F9) next time. I guess you'll see the
correct message text, albeit there might be some very strange characters
around.

Now search for 'Content-Type:' header ... I guess (and bet my ... my ...
*ggg*) there's 'charset=big5' or similar behind ... isn't it? Yes, it
is:-)

For whatever reasons TB! has a problem with 'big5' and english ASCII
characters in one message ... seems not always and not on all
systems/installations but I ran into the very same trouble too some
time ago. Albeit at my side it wasn't spam but mails on a (technical)
mailing list I'm subscribed to.

There's no known solution or workaround yet, so your only chance is F9
if the mail is important or switching from RTV to PTV.
-- 
Pit


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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-07 Thread Art Moore

On Monday, October 7, 2002, 4:28:20 AM, Peter Palmreuther wrote:

PP Have a look at the source (F9) next time. I guess you'll see the
PP correct message text, albeit there might be some very strange characters
PP around.

PP Now search for 'Content-Type:' header ... I guess (and bet my ... my ...
PP *ggg*) there's 'charset=big5' or similar behind ... isn't it? Yes, it
PP is:-)

Exactly what's happening, and the solution to my mystery. Thanks for the
answer.

Regards,

-- 

Artmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-07 Thread Scott McNay


Hi Peter!

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
on Monday, October 7, 2002, 4:28:20 AM, you wrote:

PP Have a look at the source (F9) next time. I guess you'll see the
PP correct message text, albeit there might be some very strange characters
PP around.

On  this  subject,  I've sene an occasional corrupted email that shows
Created and Received dates, but the Source screen is completely empty.
Obviously, the Created date can't be known if the message is competely
empty.  Seems  to  me  that  The  Bat!  shouldn't even be trying to do
anything   with   a  completely  empty  message;  probably  should  be
considering it to be an oops on the part of the MTA.

-- 
--Scott.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using  The  Bat! 1.61 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on an AMD Athlon
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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-07 Thread Thomas F.

Hello Scott,

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:19:57 -0500 GMT (07/10/02, 19:19 +0700 GMT),
Scott McNay wrote:

SM On this subject, I've sene an occasional corrupted email that
SM shows Created and Received dates, but the Source screen is
SM completely empty. Obviously, the Created date can't be known if
SM the message is competely empty.

No, the Created date is the date contained in the Date header. It is
known, otherwise TB wouldn't display it. The minimum requirements for
an internet message to be valid are: From, Date, and a recipient (RFC
2822).

A message without a message body is not completely empty; hit
shift-crtl-K on the supposedly empty message and you see what I mean.

SM Seems to me that The Bat! shouldn't even be trying to do anything
SM with a completely empty message; probably should be considering it
SM to be an oops on the part of the MTA.

This would be a dangerous violation of the RFC's and I would be
completely against it. If there is no body, there are still headers. I
can trigger my coffee machine with a specific Subject header and don't
need to write a body. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

A hamburger walks into a bar, and the bartender says, I'm sorry, but
we don't serve food here.

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta1
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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-07 Thread Scott McNay


Hi Thomas!

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
on Monday, October 7, 2002, 7:51:08 AM, you wrote:

TF On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:19:57 -0500 GMT (07/10/02, 19:19 +0700 GMT),
TF Scott McNay wrote:

SM On this subject, I've seen an occasional corrupted email that
SM shows Created and Received dates, but the Source screen is
SM completely empty. Obviously, the Created date can't be known if
SM the message is competely empty.

TF No, the Created date is the date contained in the Date header. It is
TF known, otherwise TB wouldn't display it. The minimum requirements for
TF an internet message to be valid are: From, Date, and a recipient (RFC
TF 2822).

TF A message without a message body is not completely empty; hit
TF shift-crtl-K on the supposedly empty message and you see what I mean.

SM Seems to me that The Bat! shouldn't even be trying to do anything
SM with a completely empty message; probably should be considering it
SM to be an oops on the part of the MTA.

TF This would be a dangerous violation of the RFC's and I would be
TF completely against it. If there is no body, there are still headers. I
TF can trigger my coffee machine with a specific Subject header and don't
TF need to write a body. ;-)


See  attached  image.  Pressing  Shift-Ctrl-K makes no difference with
this  email. It does with others. I moved the Message Source window so
that you could see what it shows.

-- 
--Scott.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using  The  Bat! 1.61 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on an AMD Athlon
XP 1900 (1.6G real, 1.9G effective) with 512MB.
attachment: untitled3.jpg

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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-05 Thread Gary

Hi Art,

On Saturday, October 5, 2002, 10:06 AM, mentioned about OT: Strange emails:

A I'm seeing strange incoming email for about 3 weeks now, at the rate of
A one every 3 or 4 days; the [From] header usually includes 4 numbers +
A my user name, the return address includes my email address, the message
A is addressed to my email account, and the subject header includes what
A appears to be Japanese or Chinese characters and English text. The
A message also appears to have been sent from a hinet.net server.

hinet.net is really hinet.net.tw  which is from Taiwan.  The 4 numbers,
plus your return address, ... well, it is probably spam to begin with.

A The oddest part is that the email contains the text of a just received
A message... yet when you re-read it the text changes to the text of ANOTHER
A message in the same folder.

It is probably from a spam program which is not RFC 2821(SMTP) or RFC 1652
(8-bit MIMEtransport) compliant, and your ISP's SMTP does not recognize it
and mangles it during receipt, as they (ISP) may not have an 8-bit clean
extended character MTA. It could also contain java script which is not a
good thing.. Personally I would filter it to go to the bit bucket (trash),
so you never see it, using something like reg ex on kludges using
^.*@hinet.net*, or something more exotic such as
(^(To|Cc|From):.*@hinet.net*)

I filter this junk from DNS and my MTA before it hits my box.


-- 
 
Best regards,
 Gary  

Today's thought: Try to relax and enjoy the crisis.   



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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-05 Thread Thomas F.

Hello Gary,

On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:44:27 -0500 GMT (05/10/02, 22:44 +0700 GMT),
Gary wrote:

G hinet.net is really hinet.net.tw  which is from Taiwan.

It is the biggest ISP in Taiwan, and it is hinet.net (.net as the TLD,
without .tw). www.hinet.net They used to be my main ISP when I lived
in Taiwan, so the recommendation to filter out everything from them is
not a good idea, if another user in Taiwan joins this list.

G The 4 numbers, plus your return address, ... well, it is probably
G spam to begin with.

ACK.

A The oddest part is that the email contains the text of a just received
A message... yet when you re-read it the text changes to the text of ANOTHER
A message in the same folder.

G It is probably from a spam program which is not RFC 2821(SMTP) or RFC 1652
G (8-bit MIMEtransport) compliant, and your ISP's SMTP does not recognize it
G and mangles it during receipt,

I would like to see that. Once a message is in the TB folder, it
cannot be mangled any more.

G as they (ISP) may not have an 8-bit clean extended character MTA.
G It could also contain java script which is not a good thing..

But the script wouldn't execute under TB.

Art, could you MIME-forward suc a message to me by PM?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

You have a right to your opinions. I just don't want to hear them.

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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-05 Thread Gary

Hi Thomas,

On Saturday, October 5, 2002, 12:39 PM, you mentioned about OT: Strange emails:

T It is the biggest ISP in Taiwan, and it is hinet.net (.net as the TLD,
T without .tw). www.hinet.net They used to be my main ISP when I lived in
T Taiwan, so the recommendation to filter out everything from them is not
T a good idea, if another user in Taiwan joins this list.

True, this is subjective depending on where you live, and what mail you
are accustomed to receiving.  I don't know the full capabilities of using
reg ex in TB!, but I do know them in Unix/Linux... It would be interesting
to see if TB! would filter on the IP address of the sender, or a block of
addresses. That would work, providing that remains constant from a few
emails that Art was receiving.  That way, hinet.net could be left intact.

G The 4 numbers, plus your return address, ... well, it is probably
G spam to begin with.

T ACK.

A The oddest part is that the email contains the text of a just received
A message... yet when you re-read it the text changes to the text of ANOTHER
A message in the same folder.

G It is probably from a spam program which is not RFC 2821(SMTP) or RFC 1652
G (8-bit MIMEtransport) compliant, and your ISP's SMTP does not recognize it
G and mangles it during receipt,

T I would like to see that. Once a message is in the TB folder, it
T cannot be mangled any more.

Of course, I was referring to the ISP's MTA, whether it be Sendmail,
Postfix, qmail, or 100s of others.. Once the mail is received and stored
by the ISP, and is pop'd or IMAP'd mail into TB!, it can be already
mangled from the ISP's MTA. The above 3 MTAs are fully compliant, but I
have seen this many times with non-compliant MTAs.

G as they (ISP) may not have an 8-bit clean extended character MTA.
G It could also contain java script which is not a good thing..

T But the script wouldn't execute under TB.

Of course.   The damage was initially done from the MTA either from
hinet.net on sending, or from Art's ISP in receiving, or the spammer's
software itself.


-- 
 
Best regards,
 Gary  

Today's thought: change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.



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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-05 Thread Art Moore

On Saturday, October 5, 2002, 2:19:46 PM, Gary wrote:

G Hi Thomas,

G On Saturday, October 5, 2002, 12:39 PM, you mentioned about OT: Strange emails:
...
T But the script wouldn't execute under TB.

G Of course.   The damage was initially done from the MTA either from
G hinet.net on sending, or from Art's ISP in receiving, or the spammer's
G software itself.

Gary,

I've got to admit that I don't understand a lot of this... but why would the
CONTENTS of the message keep changing when you review it in the TB! Preview
pane? And Thomas, I've deleted the messages from my PC, but will send you a
MIME copy when I receive the next one.

Thanks for all the help, guys.

-- 

Artmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3



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Re: OT: Strange emails

2002-10-05 Thread Gary

Hi Art,

On Saturday, October 5, 2002, 2:32 PM, you mentioned about OT: Strange emails:

A I've got to admit that I don't understand a lot of this... but why
A would the CONTENTS of the message keep changing when you review it in
A the TB! Preview pane? And Thomas, I've deleted the messages from my PC,
A but will send you a MIME copy when I receive the next one.

In many mailers, if the headers are really fouled up, the message contents
will not read correctly, or partially, and demonstrate symptoms as you
described. I don't know specifically if this is true with TB!  It is just
a logical possibility, as I have seen this happen many times (not with
TB!).  You can view the headers in TB! by hitting Ctl+Shift K.  Does this
occur when you do not view that email in a preview pane, but within TB!
itself?  Also, have you compressed your folders in TB!  Next time you get
one, can you forward a copy to me also.


-- 
 
Best regards,
 Gary  

Today's thought: I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering. 
 



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