Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread patrick keshishian
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Bob Beck  wrote:
>> I've always thought Bob's comment from 2/11/2005, was worth adding to
>> quotes, but it might be a "bit" long.  Bob might even remember why I
>> say that.
>
> I remember.  Your response was priceless

 share!
>>>
>
> It wasn't the response itself that was funny. it was the response in
> conjunction with the email domain it came from ;)

I did pick up on that ;)



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread Bob Beck
> I've always thought Bob's comment from 2/11/2005, was worth adding to
> quotes, but it might be a "bit" long.  Bob might even remember why I
> say that.

 I remember.  Your response was priceless
>>>
>>> share!
>>

It wasn't the response itself that was funny. it was the response in
conjunction with the email domain it came from ;)



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread Alexander Hall
On 11/05/10 19:43, Eichert, Diana wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:34 PM, patrick keshishian < pkesh...@gmail.com >
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Marco S Hyman  wrote:
 I've always thought Bob's comment from 2/11/2005, was worth adding to
 quotes, but it might be a "bit" long.  Bob might even remember why I
 say that.
>>>
>>> I remember.  Your response was priceless
>>
>> share!
> 
> mail archives are your friend.  I'll give you the thread
> 
> http://marc.info/?t=11080677753&r=3&w=2

Indeed that was very funny! :-)



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread Eichert, Diana
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:34 PM, patrick keshishian < pkesh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Marco S Hyman  wrote:
>>> I've always thought Bob's comment from 2/11/2005, was worth adding to
>>> quotes, but it might be a "bit" long.  Bob might even remember why I
>>> say that.
>>
>> I remember.  Your response was priceless
>
> share!

mail archives are your friend.  I'll give you the thread

http://marc.info/?t=11080677753&r=3&w=2



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread patrick keshishian
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Marco S Hyman  wrote:
>> I've always thought Bob's comment from 2/11/2005, was worth adding to
>> quotes, but it might be a "bit" long.  Bob might even remember why I
>> say that.
>
> I remember.  Your response was priceless

share!



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread Marco S Hyman
> I've always thought Bob's comment from 2/11/2005, was worth adding to
> quotes, but it might be a "bit" long.  Bob might even remember why I
> say that.

I remember.  Your response was priceless

/\/\arc



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread Eichert, Diana
I've always thought Bob's comment from 2/11/2005, was worth adding to
quotes, but it might be a "bit" long.  Bob might even remember why I
say that.

diana

Bob Beck said on Feb 11, 2005  in a comment Re: Star & OpenBSD .

OpenBSD wants even the worst nastiest
anal-carotid-constriction-software-patent-loving-spam-your-grandma-for-a-doll
ar-bottom-feeding-killing-babies-in-palestine-and-iraq
type organizations to be able to use our codebase in whatever they like.



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread David Coppa
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010, Sebastian Reitenbach wrote:

> I like that, and probably worth a fortune cookie, starting with a dedicated 
> cookie file just for theo! 
> OK? ;)

Here's to you ;) 

ciao, 
david
Write more code.
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lazy bum!
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Stop slacking you lazy bum!
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slacker slacker lazy bum bum bum slacker!
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I could search... but I'm a lazy bum ;)
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sshutup sshithead, ssharpsshooting susshi sshplats ssharking assholes.
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if they cut you out, muddy their back yards
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Make them want to start over, and play nice the next time.
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It is clear that this has not been thought through.
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avoid using abort(). it is not nice.
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That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in the last two or three minutes!
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I'd put a fan on my bomb.. And blinking lights...
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No sane people allowed here. Go home.
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Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-05 Thread Sebastian Reitenbach
On Thursday, November 4, 2010 21:32 CET, Theo de Raadt 
 wrote: 
 
> > On second thought, I should answer with a little less snark, though I
> > think this one attribute sums it up pretty well.
> > 
> > First, some committee sat around and tried to come up with all the
> > things needed to describe a person, like license plates and pager
> > numbers and who your secretary is.  It's like it's custom built for
> > handling the personnel records of IBM management.  They made all this
> > nonsense optional thankfully, but who's to say there aren't other
> > attributes you need to store in your organization?  Now you're off
> > making your own schema.  Adios interop!
> > 
> > Second, the file formats seem purpose designed to be incomprehensible.
> > 
> > Third, just doing something as simple as putting a single user record
> > into the db using ldapadd involved an insane amount of typing of magic
> > incantations.  This is not entirely the tool's fault, there's just so
> > much "stuff" involved it bubbles up to the user whether they like it
> > or not.
> > 
> > On the whole, "infinite flexibility" is pretty much synonymous with
> > "infinite complexity".
> 
> not enough axe murderers.
> 
> note to axe murderers: ietf and other such organizations are purposely
> weak at checking badges at their events, because who would want to go
> to them?  use this to your advangage.  the people attending these
> meetings are generally pretty unfit and move slowly, so you don't need
> a large, long handled axe -- something small will do.
> 
 
 
I like that, and probably worth a fortune cookie, starting with a dedicated 
cookie file just for theo! 
OK? ;)


cheers,
Sebastian 

Index: Makefile
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/games/fortune/datfiles/Makefile,v
retrieving revision 1.6
diff -u -r1.6 Makefile
--- Makefile26 Sep 2003 03:08:44 -  1.6
+++ Makefile5 Nov 2010 07:23:58 -
@@ -2,9 +2,9 @@
 #  $NetBSD: Makefile,v 1.15 1996/02/29 00:21:16 jtc Exp $
 #  @(#)Makefile8.2 (Berkeley) 4/19/94
 
-SRCS=  fortunes fortunes2 startrek zippy recipes
+SRCS=  fortunes fortunes2 startrek zippy recipes theo
 BLDS=  fortunes.dat fortunes2.dat startrek.dat zippy.dat \
-   fortunes-o fortunes-o.dat recipes.dat
+   fortunes-o fortunes-o.dat recipes.dat theo.dat
 
 # TO INSTALL THE POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE FORTUNES, UNCOMMENT THE THREE
 # LINES AND COMMENT OUT THE FOURTH LINE.
@@ -31,7 +31,7 @@
${INSTALL} ${INSTALL_COPY} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m 444 ${BLDS} \
${DESTDIR}/usr/share/games/fortune
 
-fortunes.dat fortunes2.dat fortunes2-o.dat limerick.dat startrek.dat zippy.dat 
recipes.dat:
+fortunes.dat fortunes2.dat fortunes2-o.dat limerick.dat startrek.dat zippy.dat 
recipes.dat theo.dat:
${STRFILE} -rs ${.CURDIR}/${.TARGET:R} ${.TARGET}
 
 fortunes-o.dat: fortunes-o
Index: theo
===
RCS file: theo
diff -N theo
--- /dev/null   1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -
+++ theo5 Nov 2010 07:23:58 -
@@ -0,0 +1,8 @@
+note to axe murderers: ietf and other such organizations are purposely
+weak at checking badges at their events, because who would want to go
+to them?  use this to your advangage.  the people attending these
+meetings are generally pretty unfit and move slowly, so you don't need
+a large, long handled axe -- something small will do.
+
+Theo de Raadt on tech@ answering the thread: document ldapd schema files
+



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread patrick keshishian
On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 02:32:45PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > On second thought, I should answer with a little less snark, though I
> > think this one attribute sums it up pretty well.
> > 
> > First, some committee sat around and tried to come up with all the
> > things needed to describe a person, like license plates and pager
> > numbers and who your secretary is.  It's like it's custom built for
> > handling the personnel records of IBM management.  They made all this
> > nonsense optional thankfully, but who's to say there aren't other
> > attributes you need to store in your organization?  Now you're off
> > making your own schema.  Adios interop!
> > 
> > Second, the file formats seem purpose designed to be incomprehensible.
> > 
> > Third, just doing something as simple as putting a single user record
> > into the db using ldapadd involved an insane amount of typing of magic
> > incantations.  This is not entirely the tool's fault, there's just so
> > much "stuff" involved it bubbles up to the user whether they like it
> > or not.
> > 
> > On the whole, "infinite flexibility" is pretty much synonymous with
> > "infinite complexity".
> 
> not enough axe murderers.
> 
> note to axe murderers: ietf and other such organizations are purposely
> weak at checking badges at their events, because who would want to go
> to them?  use this to your advangage.  the people attending these
> meetings are generally pretty unfit and move slowly, so you don't need
> a large, long handled axe -- something small will do.

nce!



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Adam M. Dutko
> On second thought, I should answer with a little less snark, though I
> think this one attribute sums it up pretty well.
>
>
I enjoyed the first response but thanks for the follow-up.


> First, some committee sat around and tried to come up with all the
> things needed to describe a person, like license plates and pager
> numbers and who your secretary is.  It's like it's custom built for
> handling the personnel records of IBM management.  They made all this
> nonsense optional thankfully, but who's to say there aren't other
> attributes you need to store in your organization?  Now you're off
> making your own schema.  Adios interop!
>

I've found LDAP useful in simple situations and barely tolerable in big
organizations for reasons you highlighted.  A lot of people have to justify
their existence and some can do it by managing a directory server.

On the flip side, I recently used LDAP for a guest wireless application and
saved us from having to rely on Active Directory (definitely not something I
like but for some organizations they think they need a directory system).
I've tried to ponder how one might lobby managers in an organization to not
go the "single sign on route" or use Active Directory (and AD "like"
solutions) but I'm always faced with the ... "it's easy and it works with
everything" counterpoints (and no it doesn't work with everything).

I was hoping maybe some of you could shed light on approaches to solving the
"how do I manage users across multiple operating systems and application
domains" problem that faces a lot of organizations but I imagine that's a
question better asked on a different mailing list.  That question is why I
asked you about your decision earlier.


> Second, the file formats seem purpose designed to be incomprehensible.
>
> Third, just doing something as simple as putting a single user record
> into the db using ldapadd involved an insane amount of typing of magic
> incantations.  This is not entirely the tool's fault, there's just so
> much "stuff" involved it bubbles up to the user whether they like it
> or not.
>
>
Yup, it's a bit of a mess and nearly impossible to create good and powerful
abstractions for admins when faced with so many permutations.


> On the whole, "infinite flexibility" is pretty much synonymous with
> "infinite complexity".
>

This is where I led myself to on the whole discussion of identify management
in an enterprise.



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 02:32:45PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > On second thought, I should answer with a little less snark, though I
> > think this one attribute sums it up pretty well.
> > 
> > First, some committee sat around and tried to come up with all the
> > things needed to describe a person, like license plates and pager
> > numbers and who your secretary is.  It's like it's custom built for
> > handling the personnel records of IBM management.  They made all this
> > nonsense optional thankfully, but who's to say there aren't other
> > attributes you need to store in your organization?  Now you're off
> > making your own schema.  Adios interop!
> > 
> > Second, the file formats seem purpose designed to be incomprehensible.
> > 
> > Third, just doing something as simple as putting a single user record
> > into the db using ldapadd involved an insane amount of typing of magic
> > incantations.  This is not entirely the tool's fault, there's just so
> > much "stuff" involved it bubbles up to the user whether they like it
> > or not.
> > 
> > On the whole, "infinite flexibility" is pretty much synonymous with
> > "infinite complexity".
> 
> not enough axe murderers.
> 
> note to axe murderers: ietf and other such organizations are purposely
> weak at checking badges at their events, because who would want to go
> to them?  use this to your advangage.  the people attending these
> meetings are generally pretty unfit and move slowly, so you don't need
> a large, long handled axe -- something small will do.
> 

like blades in a cheese burger ?

Gilles



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Martin Hedenfalk
4 nov 2010 kl. 21.22 skrev Ted Unangst:
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Ted Unangst  wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Adam M. Dutko 
wrote:
 I can't really comment on the accuracy because I'm trying to avoid
 learning about LDAP at all cost, but this gives me enough info to
 start searching with, so I think it's a great addition.

>>>
>>> What is the technical reason behind not wanting to learn about LDAP?  I'd
> be
>>> interested to hear feedback/input from you and the rest of the list.
>
> On second thought, I should answer with a little less snark, though I
> think this one attribute sums it up pretty well.

It does. My personal favourite otherwise is the wealth of useful syntax
rules:
  ( 1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.51
 DESC 'Teletex Terminal Identifier' )

> First, some committee sat around and tried to come up with all the
> things needed to describe a person, like license plates and pager
> numbers and who your secretary is.  It's like it's custom built for
> handling the personnel records of IBM management.  They made all this
> nonsense optional thankfully, but who's to say there aren't other
> attributes you need to store in your organization?  Now you're off
> making your own schema.  Adios interop!

You can also add the extensibleObject object class to your entry. This way you
can use any defined attribute.


> Second, the file formats seem purpose designed to be incomprehensible.
>
> Third, just doing something as simple as putting a single user record
> into the db using ldapadd involved an insane amount of typing of magic
> incantations.  This is not entirely the tool's fault, there's just so
> much "stuff" involved it bubbles up to the user whether they like it
> or not.
>
> On the whole, "infinite flexibility" is pretty much synonymous with
> "infinite complexity".
>
>
>> attributetype ( 2.16.840.1.113730.3.1.1
>>   NAME 'carLicense'
>>   DESC 'RFC2798: vehicle license or registration plate'
>>   EQUALITY caseIgnoreMatch
>>   SUBSTR caseIgnoreSubstringsMatch
>>   SYNTAX 1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.15 )



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Theo de Raadt
> On second thought, I should answer with a little less snark, though I
> think this one attribute sums it up pretty well.
> 
> First, some committee sat around and tried to come up with all the
> things needed to describe a person, like license plates and pager
> numbers and who your secretary is.  It's like it's custom built for
> handling the personnel records of IBM management.  They made all this
> nonsense optional thankfully, but who's to say there aren't other
> attributes you need to store in your organization?  Now you're off
> making your own schema.  Adios interop!
> 
> Second, the file formats seem purpose designed to be incomprehensible.
> 
> Third, just doing something as simple as putting a single user record
> into the db using ldapadd involved an insane amount of typing of magic
> incantations.  This is not entirely the tool's fault, there's just so
> much "stuff" involved it bubbles up to the user whether they like it
> or not.
> 
> On the whole, "infinite flexibility" is pretty much synonymous with
> "infinite complexity".

not enough axe murderers.

note to axe murderers: ietf and other such organizations are purposely
weak at checking badges at their events, because who would want to go
to them?  use this to your advangage.  the people attending these
meetings are generally pretty unfit and move slowly, so you don't need
a large, long handled axe -- something small will do.



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Ted Unangst
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Ted Unangst  wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Adam M. Dutko  wrote:
>>> I can't really comment on the accuracy because I'm trying to avoid
>>> learning about LDAP at all cost, but this gives me enough info to
>>> start searching with, so I think it's a great addition.
>>>
>>
>> What is the technical reason behind not wanting to learn about LDAP?  I'd
be
>> interested to hear feedback/input from you and the rest of the list.

On second thought, I should answer with a little less snark, though I
think this one attribute sums it up pretty well.

First, some committee sat around and tried to come up with all the
things needed to describe a person, like license plates and pager
numbers and who your secretary is.  It's like it's custom built for
handling the personnel records of IBM management.  They made all this
nonsense optional thankfully, but who's to say there aren't other
attributes you need to store in your organization?  Now you're off
making your own schema.  Adios interop!

Second, the file formats seem purpose designed to be incomprehensible.

Third, just doing something as simple as putting a single user record
into the db using ldapadd involved an insane amount of typing of magic
incantations.  This is not entirely the tool's fault, there's just so
much "stuff" involved it bubbles up to the user whether they like it
or not.

On the whole, "infinite flexibility" is pretty much synonymous with
"infinite complexity".


> attributetype ( 2.16.840.1.113730.3.1.1
>NAME 'carLicense'
>DESC 'RFC2798: vehicle license or registration plate'
>EQUALITY caseIgnoreMatch
>SUBSTR caseIgnoreSubstringsMatch
>SYNTAX 1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.15 )



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Ted Unangst
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Adam M. Dutko  wrote:
>> I can't really comment on the accuracy because I'm trying to avoid
>> learning about LDAP at all cost, but this gives me enough info to
>> start searching with, so I think it's a great addition.
>>
>
> What is the technical reason behind not wanting to learn about LDAP?  I'd
be
> interested to hear feedback/input from you and the rest of the list.

attributetype ( 2.16.840.1.113730.3.1.1
NAME 'carLicense'
DESC 'RFC2798: vehicle license or registration plate'
EQUALITY caseIgnoreMatch
SUBSTR caseIgnoreSubstringsMatch
SYNTAX 1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.15 )



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Martin Hedenfalk
4 nov 2010 kl. 20.10 skrev Adam M. Dutko:

>> I can't really comment on the accuracy because I'm trying to avoid
>> learning about LDAP at all cost, but this gives me enough info to
>> start searching with, so I think it's a great addition.
>>
>
> What is the technical reason behind not wanting to learn about LDAP?  I'd
be
> interested to hear feedback/input from you and the rest of the list.

I can't speak for Ted, but I would guess having other priorities or lack of
time.

Anyway, I should perhaps mention the 'relax schema' keyword in the ldapd.conf
file, if you don't want to write a schema definition. Basically it bypasses
all attribute checking of stored entries, so you can use it as a simple
key-value store. Any attribute will be accepted. Don't use if you want any
kind of interoperability.

-martin



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Adam M. Dutko
> I can't really comment on the accuracy because I'm trying to avoid
> learning about LDAP at all cost, but this gives me enough info to
> start searching with, so I think it's a great addition.
>

What is the technical reason behind not wanting to learn about LDAP?  I'd be
interested to hear feedback/input from you and the rest of the list.



Re: document ldapd schema files

2010-11-04 Thread Ted Unangst
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Martin Hedenfalk  wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 01:19:26PM -0400, Ted Unangst wrote:
>> Am I missing something, or is there no documentation for the schema
>> files?  man ldapd.conf tells me I can include additional schema files
>> via the schema keyword, but nothing tells me what to put in those
>> files.
>
> Following diff attempts to documents the schema file syntax.  Only
> a brief synopsis of the attribute type and object class syntax is
> given, the rest is referred to the RFC.

I can't really comment on the accuracy because I'm trying to avoid
learning about LDAP at all cost, but this gives me enough info to
start searching with, so I think it's a great addition.



document ldapd schema files

2010-11-03 Thread Martin Hedenfalk
On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 01:19:26PM -0400, Ted Unangst wrote:
> Am I missing something, or is there no documentation for the schema
> files?  man ldapd.conf tells me I can include additional schema files
> via the schema keyword, but nothing tells me what to put in those
> files.

Following diff attempts to documents the schema file syntax.  Only
a brief synopsis of the attribute type and object class syntax is
given, the rest is referred to the RFC.

I couldn't get the long synopsis lines to display as I wanted, so
I'm hoping for some mdoc help :)

-martin


Index: ldapd.conf.5
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/usr.sbin/ldapd/ldapd.conf.5,v
retrieving revision 1.11
diff -u -p -u -r1.11 ldapd.conf.5
--- ldapd.conf.53 Nov 2010 11:21:11 -   1.11
+++ ldapd.conf.53 Nov 2010 19:47:39 -
@@ -132,6 +132,9 @@ Password for the root user.
 Specified either in plain text, or in hashed format.
 .It schema Ar filename
 Add schema definitions from the specified file.
+For a description of the schema file syntax see
+.Sx SCHEMA
+below.
 .El
 .Sh NAMESPACES
 A namespace is a subtree of the global X.500 DIT (Directory Information Tree),
@@ -250,16 +253,79 @@ Typically used to allow users to modify 
 Enable compression of entries and optionally specify compression level (0 - 9).
 By default, no compression is used.
 .El
+.Sh SCHEMA
+Schema files define the structure and format of entries in the directory tree.
+There are three types of definitions in a schema file:
+.Bl -tag -width Ds
+.It attributetype
+\*(lp
+.Ar oid
+.Op NAME name
+.Op DESC description
+.Op OBSOLETE
+.Op SUP oid
+.Op EQUALITY oid
+.Op ORDERING oid
+.Op SUBSTR oid
+.Op SYNTAX oid
+.Op SINGLE-VALUE
+.Op COLLECTIVE
+.Op NO-USER-MODIFICATION
+.Op USAGE Brq userApplications | directoryOperation | distributedOperation | 
dSAOperation
+\*(rp
+.Pp
+An attribute type definition specifies the syntax of attribute values, whether
+it allows multiple values and how it can be compared in search requests.
+For a complete description of attribute type defitions, see section
+4.1.2 in RFC 4712.
+.It objectclass
+\*(lp
+.Ar oid
+.Op NAME name
+.Op DESC description
+.Op OBSOLETE
+.Op SUP oids
+.Op Brq ABSTRACT | STRUCTURAL | AUXILIARY
+.Op MUST oids
+.Op MAY oids
+\*(rp
+.Pp
+An object class definition specifies which attributes are required
+and which are allowed.
+For a complete description of object class definitions, see section
+4.1.1 in RFC 4712.
+.It objectidentifier Ar symbolic-name Ar OID
+Defines a symbolic name for the object identifier.
+A symbolic name can be used in place of a numeric OID in definitions
+of attribute types, object classes and other symbolic OIDs.
+A descendant OID can be defined in terms of another symbolic OID by appending
+a numeric OID after a colon, for example:
+.Bd -literal -offset indent
+objectidentifier MyOidRoot 1.2.3.4
+objectidentifier MyOidAttributes MyOidRoot:5.6
+objectidentifier MyOidObjects MyOidRoot:7
+.Ed
+.Pp
+This would define MyOidAttributes as a symbolic name for the OID
+1.2.3.4.5.6, and MyOidObjects for 1.2.3.4.7.
+.El
 .Sh FILES
 .Bl -tag -width "/etc/ldap/ldapd.confXXX" -compact
 .It Pa /etc/ldapd.conf
 Default
 .Xr ldapd 8
 configuration file.
+.It Pa /etc/ldap/*.schema
+Default schema definition files.
 .El
 .Sh SEE ALSO
 .Xr ldapctl 8 ,
 .Xr ldapd 8
+.Rs
+.%R RFC 4512
+.%T Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP): Directory Information Models
+.%D June 2006
+.Re
 .Sh HISTORY
 The
 .Nm