Re: Adding GNOME ....
Adam Williamson (adamw...@fedoraproject.org) said: > 1) Workstation is set up rather differently to the other desktop-y > products/environments. There's rather an overlap between the > 'workstation-product' group and the 'gnome-desktop' group. I'd sort of > expect the 'workstation-product-environment' env group would include the > 'gnome-desktop' group and then another group which pulled in the things > that we want to add that make up the 'workstation product', perhaps? > This is how the other desktop small-p products/environments work - > kde-desktop-environment pulls in @kde-desktop (plus other package > groups) and @fedora-release-nonproduct , xfce-desktop-environment pulls > in @xfce-desktop and @fedora-release-nonproduct, etc. That would be sort of how I'd expect it to work, yes. But do people mixing and matching desktops post-install want installing 'GNOME' (defined nebulously here) to workstation-ize their system? > 2) We just don't have a good story for installing extra desktops > post-install any more. The only 'desktop' groups visible in 'yum > grouplist' are the environment groups, but you can't use those because > of fedora-release package conflicts. You can install the 'XXX-desktop' > package groups directly, but these aren't visible in yum's list at all > (I think we stopped making them user-visible when we set up the whole > 'environment group' thing on the basis people should just install the > env groups). So you can't install the groups you can see, but you can > install the groups you can't see... Yeah, it's somewhat of an issue if you're trying to do that. The reason the -desktop groups were hidden as such is because people were using them to attempt to install the appropriate desktop on bare machines, which could then end up missing X, fonts, gstreamer plugins, etc. - what you want in that case is what's defined in the environment groups. Perhaps something where each product's metadata defines the environment groups to include the appropriate fedora-release- package, but the environment groups in the general case *don't*? Not sure that's possible, and it might lead to other issues. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Criterion revision proposal: KDE default applications
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" (johan...@gmail.com) said: > The DVD is releng/fesco responsibility, they dictate and decide > what's on it and what not and how it's delivered not the > sub-community's. Really? The KDE SIG has full access to change what gets installed when you install from the DVD. If you're saying it's releng and FESCo's responsibility to fix that, then as a releng and FESCo member, I'll fix it... commit f349ff05510a1f60cb43470cb544d55136c837c3 (HEAD, f20) Author: Bill Nottingham Date: Fri Dec 13 12:22:39 2013 -0500 Drop KDE from the DVD, to avoid blocker bugs due to installed package set. diff --git a/fedora-install-fedora.ks b/fedora-install-fedora.ks index f1a767f..fd9f4e9 100644 --- a/fedora-install-fedora.ks +++ b/fedora-install-fedora.ks @@ -73,13 +73,6 @@ dracut-* @libreoffice @gnome-games -## KDE -@kde-desktop -@kde-apps -@kde-education -@kde-media -@kde-office - ## XFCE @xfce-desktop @xfce-apps @@ -111,7 +104,6 @@ dracut-* @rpm-development-tools @fedora-packager @gnome-software-development -@kde-software-development @x-software-development @virtualization @web-server @@ -139,8 +131,6 @@ autocorr-* eclipse-nls-* hunspell-* hyphen-* -calligra-l10n-* -kde-l10n-* libreoffice-langpack-* man-pages-* mythes-* commit 833fdfaf7ec6a9588b1d51a11b9a2a9d956ab873 (HEAD, master) Author: Bill Nottingham Date: Fri Dec 13 12:25:13 2013 -0500 Drop KDE environment as an installation choice. Live media is the SIG-supported install method. diff --git a/comps-f21.xml.in b/comps-f21.xml.in index 66ff5c5..f462e58 100644 --- a/comps-f21.xml.in +++ b/comps-f21.xml.in @@ -6200,34 +6200,6 @@ -kde-desktop-environment -<_name>KDE Plasma Workspaces -<_description>The KDE Plasma Workspaces, a highly-configurable graphical user interface which includes a panel, desktop, system icons and desktop widgets, and many powerful KDE applications. -10 - - base-x - standard - core - admin-tools - dial-up - fonts - input-methods - multimedia - hardware-support - printing - guest-desktop-agents - kde-desktop - - - kde-apps - kde-education - kde-media - kde-office - kde-telepathy - 3d-printing - - - xfce-desktop-environment <_name>Xfce Desktop <_description>A lightweight desktop environment that works well on low end machines. Ready to push whenever. Now, I'm ASSuming they don't actually want that. But, to be clear: the installation choices of the assorted desktops on the DVD/netinstall are the provence of those SIGs. If they don't want to maintain them, we can absolutely remove them, just as we'd do for any Spin that was not maintained or tested. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Fedora 20 Swastika
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently > discussing it in #fedora-devel. While I do not want to overrule any decisions made, I would like to note that asking for self-selected opinions (in a not-the-most-diverse community) on whether an item is potentially offensive to a minority is a somewhat problematic methodology. (That we have done in the past for Beefy Miracle, so... I may be a hypocrite.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: dnf vs yum groups information
nonamedotc (nonamed...@fedoraproject.org) said:
> dnf and yum are showing different information for the command
> {dnf/yum} groups list.
>
> Particularly, not all the DE/WM seem to be listed in dnf output but
> it is listed in yum. I am just wondering if this is a bug or if it's
> intentional. I would much appreciate it if someone can point me to
> relevant documentation.
yum treats 'environments' as groups that can be selected. It appears DNF
does not.
Bill
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Re: [SPAM] [Test-Announce] Announcing the release of Fedora 20 Alpha!
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > On Tue, 2013-09-24 at 19:51 -0700, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote: > > On 09/24/2013 07:46 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2013-09-24 at 17:08 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > >> Łukasz Posadowski (m...@lukaszposadowski.pl) said: > > >>> Fedora, you did it again. :) But I hoped you would remember this time: 5 > > >>> gigs do not fit on a single DVD. Oh yes, happy birthday. > > >> Already filed in bugzilla, not considered an alpha blocker. > > > The reason being that 5GB *do* fit on a single DVD if it's DL. And, more > > > to the point, they fit fine on a USB stick or in a VM, which we figure > > > is how most people test these days. > > Why not use 7GB then? > > We don't 'aim' for 5GB. We aim for the target size - single-layer DVD > size - but for Alpha, because it's still pretty possible to test the > image if it's over-size, we don't block if it goes over size. > > > One ISO with Gnome, KDE, Xfce, Exim, Mingw and Wine? > > The DVD already has GNOME, KDE and Xfce, and the other things you > mention seem pretty random and special-interest. Alternatively, given the 3 product split being proposed at the FESCo/Board level, it would seem simpler to drop the DVD entirely. (And there was much rejoicing.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: [SPAM] [Test-Announce] Announcing the release of Fedora 20 Alpha!
Łukasz Posadowski (m...@lukaszposadowski.pl) said: > Fedora, you did it again. :) But I hoped you would remember this time: 5 > gigs do not fit on a single DVD. Oh yes, happy birthday. Already filed in bugzilla, not considered an alpha blocker. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.
Matthias Clasen (mcla...@redhat.com) said: > I don't think all packages are the same when it comes to bug reporting. > Speaking just for GNOME, I will say that getting feedback (in the form > of bugs and crash reports) from rawhide and the 'next' branch during the > development cycle is pretty valuable, and removing overhead (in the form > of extra bugzilla jumps) from this feedback is very good - six month is > too short a time to waste on shuffling bugs and status updates back and > forth... > > Upstream bugzilla has advantages for us as developers - we can use > git-bz to attach patches, and splinter to review them, which is very > convenient. > > The main advantage of downstream bug reporting at this point is > retrace.fedoraproject.org, as far as I'm concerned. As an upstream developer, that may be fine. I think a lot of the issue is people who wear both the upstream and the downstream hats, and maybe that's better solved by getting more people to wear the downstream hats. Unless people think bugzilla is merely there to service our developers, but that does a large disservice to our users. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.
Jan Wildeboer (jwild...@redhat.com) said: > How will you track blocker bugs? > > How can we see a global view of all open bugs? Aggregate from X upstream bug > report systems? Which not all are Bugzilla? > > How can we track critical bugs? Additional concerns I'd have above this: - Not all things we ship have active upstream bug trackers to fall back on - We still need a way to track Fedora-specific integration & packaging concerns, which would likely get closed upstream as 'NOTABUG' for that project - What filing downstream gives the Fedora maintainer is a good mechanism for knowing what's going on in that package in Fedora. Tracking *all* upstream bugs in a bug tracker may not be a good way to do so. Honestly, I think a good dedicated triage team that works to verify and move upstream as appropriate works better. But, you know, requires getting and keeping such a team. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Licensing? Was: Removing Optical Boot Requirement from F20 Alpha Release Requirements
Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) said: > > On Sep 19, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Eric Blake wrote: > > > > Given the current state of the art, all known UEFI implementations for > > VMs require the use of a FAT driver whose license forbids redistribution > > for general purpose use, which means Fedora cannot ship it. > > I don't understand this. Not speaking to any issues of legality or non-legality, but fairly sure he's referring to the FAT driver in the EFI bios itself, which would have to be distributed in the EFI bios used by QEMU/KVM for virtual systems. It's not the linux kernel driver. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: environment group 'KDE Plasma Workspaces'
Richard Ryniker (ryni...@alum.mit.edu) said: > >No, they're arch-specific. (geode is 32-bit x86, omap is ARM.) > > That makes sense. Should yum understand this better? I mean, should the > group list specify architecture dependencies: some packages are needed > for one architecture, others needed for a different architecture? The group code in yum does not track 'arch' as a variable for packages. It could be changed to do so, in theory, but it doesn't now. If having arch-specific packages there listed as 'mandatory' is causing problems, they should be switched to 'default' in the interim. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: environment group 'KDE Plasma Workspaces'
Richard Ryniker (ryni...@alum.mit.edu) said: > >These packages still exist, and haven't been removed or renamed as far > >as I can tell. > > Yum does not appear able to find them... do you think this is a local problem? No, they're arch-specific. (geode is 32-bit x86, omap is ARM.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: environment group 'KDE Plasma Workspaces'
Richard Ryniker (ryni...@alum.mit.edu) said: > I still find the (maybe my own peculiar) F20 situation confusing. For > example: I do not know for sure, but it's entirely possible that installing when there was both the group and the environment with the same name could have left your system in an inconsistent state. One of the yum developers might be able to say for sure. > I display information about the group kde-desktop and see: > > [root@lenovo ryniker]# yum -v group info kde-desktop > Not loading "blacklist" plugin, as it is disabled > Loading "langpacks" plugin > Loading "refresh-packagekit" plugin > Not loading "whiteout" plugin, as it is disabled > Adding en to language list > Config time: 0.418 > Yum version: 3.4.3 > Setting up Package Sacks > pkgsack time: 0.109 > group time: 0.264 > > Group: KDE >Group-Id: kde-desktop > rpmdb time: 0.000 >Description: The KDE Plasma Workspaces, a highly-configurable graphical > user interface which includes a panel, desktop, system icons and desktop > widgets, and many powerful KDE applications. >Mandatory Packages: > =akonadi-1.10.2-1.fc20.i686 fedora > > =akonadi-1.10.2-1.fc20.x86_64@fedora > > =akonadi-mysql-1.10.2-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =apper-0.8.1-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =appmenu-qt-0.2.6-4.fc20.i686fedora > > =appmenu-qt-0.2.6-4.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =ark-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64@fedora > > =bluedevil-2.0.0-0.1.20130621.fc20.i686 fedora > > =bluedevil-2.0.0-0.1.20130621.fc20.x86_64@fedora > > =cagibi-0.2.0-6.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > cups-pk-helper-0.2.5-2.fc20.x86_64 @anaconda > > firewall-config-0.3.4-1.fc20.noarch @anaconda > > =gwenview-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =initial-setup-0.3.8-1.fc20.noarch > @updates-testing > =kamera-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kamoso-2.0.2-12.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kcalc-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kcharselect-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64@fedora > > =kcm-gtk-0.5.3-14.fc20.x86_64@fedora > > =kcm_touchpad-0.3.1-10.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kcolorchooser-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kde-baseapps-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kde-plasma-nm-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.i686 > updates-testing > =kde-plasma-nm-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.x86_64 > @updates-testing > =kde-plasma-nm-l2tp-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.x86_64 > @updates-testing > =kde-plasma-nm-openconnect-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.x86_64 > @updates-testing > =kde-plasma-nm-openswan-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.x86_64 > @updates-testing > =kde-plasma-nm-openvpn-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.x86_64 > @updates-testing > =kde-plasma-nm-pptp-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.x86_64 > @updates-testing > =kde-plasma-nm-vpnc-0.9.3.0-6.fc20.x86_64 > @updates-testing > =kde-print-manager-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kde-runtime-4.11.0-1.fc20.i686 fedora > > =kde-runtime-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64@fedora > > =kde-settings-pulseaudio-20-1.fc20.noarch > @updates-testing > =kde-workspace-4.11.0-4.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =1:kdeaccessibility-4.11.0-1.fc20.noarch @fedora > > =6:kdegames-minimal-4.11.0-1.fc20.noarch @fedora > > =kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64@fedora > > =kdegraphics-thumbnailers-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =6:kdelibs-4.11.0-2.fc20.i686fedora > > =6:kdelibs-4.11.0-2.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > -kdenetwork-kdnssd > -kdenetwork-kget > =7:kdepim-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kdeplasma-addons-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64 @fedora > > =kgpg-4.11.0-1.fc20.x86_64
Re: environment group 'KDE Plasma Workspaces'
Richard Ryniker (ryni...@alum.mit.edu) said: > I believe the KDE environment is installed on my up-to-date F20 machine, > but "yum group list" does not show it is installed. Suspecting it might > not be *completely* installed, I tried to install it and yum complained: > > Warning: environment KDE Plasma Workspaces does not exist. There is both a group and environment with: KDE Plasma Workspaces One of them needs renamed, or things will be weird. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: [Fedora-spins] Proposal: Spins process amendment for Fedora 20 cycle
Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) said: > Each approved spin MUST have at least 2 people fill in the Basic spin > test matrix for at least 1 TC or RC. If the image fails, maintainers > can try again at the next milestone, but the image is NOT shipped for > that milestone. if an image doesn't get 2 people filling in Basic spin > tests, the image is dropped for that cycle and IS NOT SHIPPED FOR THAT > RELEASE! Such images can be reapproved by the spins sig for the next > cycle. > > At the Beta milestone, only those images that got testing in the Alpha > milestone will be produced. I'd allow for building and testing things that failed in alpha, if there are changes to fix those failures. Similarly for beta -> final. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Fedora 19 Final blocker status: fix and karma requests
Bruno Wolff III (br...@wolff.to) said: > On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 18:04:55 -0400, > Matthias Clasen wrote: > >rpm db 82M > > I vaguely remember a discussion about dropping this for live images > because it gets rebuilt every boot when needed. My memory is that we > ended up removing this data while building live images, but haven't > looked at it in a long time. It's useful in terms of having a RPM-based manifest of what's on the image, and if you're installing the image to disk, you're going to need it on the installed system... Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Fedora 19 Final blocker status: fix and karma requests
> - We have both js and mozjs17. js is still used by gjs, libpeas, > libproxy-mozjs and gnome-shell. Possible savings: 7M I thought Colin was fixing everything to use mosjz17. Is that a F-20 thing? Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: consider people with poor vision
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > It's not a reason not to 'have a feature', but it may be a reason not to > implement a feature in a particular way. > > There are probably a thousand questions we could ask at the first stage > of install that would allow various small groups of people to have a > more 'tailored' installer in some way. How do you decide which to ask > and which not to ask? Shouldn't this just be solved by getting anaconda to hook into the existing a11y framework? Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: grub2 boot problems after updating to grub2-tools-2.00-20 and grub2-2.00-20
Peter Jones (pjo...@redhat.com) said: > For new installs, we're not using the theme at all - right now anaconda > isn't setting GRUB_THEME at all, ever. > > For old installs, you'll want to install starfield. I'm not really > sure what to do about this to make old installs work - we don't want to > Require the subpackage, because we don't want it installed on fresh > installs (and especially on live images where space is critical), > but obviously we've got no other way to pull it in on old installations. Have them both obsoletes grub2 < version-where-you-made-the-switch. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Most latest mirrors for fedora
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > Note that the situation with sssd is a bit complex. The broken update > was submitted for updates-testing on 06-12 at 12:01, and pushed to > updates-testing on 06-12 at 12:41. It was then marked to be 'unpushed' - > i.e. taken off the mirrors - on 06-13 at 01:28. A fixed sssd package was > then added to the update and submitted for updates-testing on 06-13 at > 10:56, and pushed to updates-testing on 06-13 at 15:53. > > I'm not sure whether unpushes require any manual action or if they > happen automatically, but if the unpush actually happened, then there > was a time when the 'most current' state of the mirrors would have an > *older* sssd package than a 'less current' state of the mirrors - a > 'less current' mirror would still have the broken update, but a 'more > current' mirror would have had it removed. It's not _always_ the case > that the mirror with a higher-versioned package is the more up to date. > 99% of the time, but not always. Unless something has changed in the bodhi infrastructure, 'unpush' just means 'untagged from updates-testing', and won't actually be reflected on any mirror until the next updates compose/push is done for that release. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Rawhide heads up - Expect yum problems
Bruno Wolff III (br...@wolff.to) said: > On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 11:20:59 -0400, > Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > >Sorry about that. Patch attached in bz, can build if people want. > > I tested the patch and it worked for me. It would be nice if someone > would do a build today so it gets into tomorrow's rawhide. Done. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Rawhide heads up - Expect yum problems
Bruno Wolff III (br...@wolff.to) said: > On Wed, May 01, 2013 at 20:38:01 -0500, > Bruno Wolff III wrote: > >It looks like there is an issue with yum-3.4.3-88.fc20 not working > >properly, blocking updates. I have filed a but report > >(https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958531) for this, but > >it hasn't been confirmed yet. > > > >Probably when there is one, some hand holding will be needed to > >update yum or whatever broke it. > > Downgrading to yum-3.4.3-87.fc20 works around the problem. You can > download it from koji and use rpm -Uvh --oldpackage > yum-3.4.3-87.fc20.noarch.rpm to install it. Sorry about that. Patch attached in bz, can build if people want. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: system-config-lvm
Clyde E. Kunkel (clydekunkel7...@verizon.net) said: > system-config-lvm is not in F19 or F20 at present. Will it be or is > it being dropped? What replaces it? As a graphcial configuration tool for storage, palimpset/gnome-disk-utility. Note that this may not do LVM directly at this time. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Fedora 18 issues with translations and keymaps
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > In addition to those bugs, we have fairly significant regressions in the > completeness of anaconda translations between Fedora 16 and Fedora 18 > (the numbers for F17 for some languages are weird - a lot of languages > show 55% completion for F17 but 90-100% for F16, which seems bogus, as > I'm sure things didn't change that much between F16 and F17, so I'm just > using the F16 numbers. I assume there's some weirdness that explains the > odd 55% numbers for F17, but if not, hey, F17 was kinda boned too...): > > Language F16 F18 > Finnish 93% 75% > Indonesian100%33% > Kannada 94% 33% > Oriya 94% 27% > Telugu94% 32% > Bengali (India) 93% 33% > Portuguese100%36% > Persian 95% 27% > Malayalam 78% 20% > NorwegianBokmal 92% 55% > Bengali 93% 33% > Sinhala 93% 27% > Serbian 81% 23% > Serbian(Latin)81% 23% > Hebrew83% 22% > Catalan 68% (98% F17) 25% > Latvian 88% 20% > Greek 68% 21% > Turkish 79% 21% > Maithili 67% 18% > Asturian 85% 24% > > (from https://fedora.transifex.com/projects/p/anaconda/ ) When we approved the anaconda bits in FESCo, full translation was marked as an item that was scheduled for F19. We can go back on that now, but the knowledge that things were not fully translated (and weren't going to be) was something that was known at the time. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: "Basic X Window System" option present in smoke12 netinst, missing on DVD
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > On Wed, 2013-01-02 at 14:02 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Andre Robatino (robat...@fedoraproject.org) said: > > > Starting with smoke12 ( > > > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/qa/20121221_f18-smoke12/ ), the > > > Basic X > > > option under Software Selection is missing on the DVD, though it's still > > > present > > > on the netinst. The "Cinnamon Desktop" and "MATE Desktop" options are also > > > missing on the DVD, and this is probably in order to fix > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=878985 (not enough space on > > > the DVD > > > to include them). But all of the options under Basic X appear to actually > > > be on > > > the DVD, in which case there's no reason to include it on one and not the > > > other. > > > > > > Smoke12 includes the latest pungi-2.13-1.fc18 and the changelog mentions > > > > > > * Fri Dec 21 2012 Dennis Gilmore - 2.13-1 - strip > > > groups from > > > comps not listed in the kickstart > > > > > > So is the missing Basic X on the DVD intentional, or a bug? > > > > Intentional. Basic X Window environment in software selection includes the > > 'basic-x-window-desktop' group, which is *not* on the DVD. So the > > environment isn't shown. > > Maybe we should have it on there, then? ? I'm confused. Have which on there? There's base-x, which is just the X server & drivers, that lives under all desktops. That's on the DVD. The other is the 'Basic X Window' enviroment, which is that plus blackbox, xmonad, ratpoison, etc. window managers. It's not on the DVD. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: "Basic X Window System" option present in smoke12 netinst, missing on DVD
Andre Robatino (robat...@fedoraproject.org) said: > Starting with smoke12 ( > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/qa/20121221_f18-smoke12/ ), the Basic X > option under Software Selection is missing on the DVD, though it's still > present > on the netinst. The "Cinnamon Desktop" and "MATE Desktop" options are also > missing on the DVD, and this is probably in order to fix > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=878985 (not enough space on the > DVD > to include them). But all of the options under Basic X appear to actually be > on > the DVD, in which case there's no reason to include it on one and not the > other. > > Smoke12 includes the latest pungi-2.13-1.fc18 and the changelog mentions > > * Fri Dec 21 2012 Dennis Gilmore - 2.13-1 - strip groups > from > comps not listed in the kickstart > > So is the missing Basic X on the DVD intentional, or a bug? Intentional. Basic X Window environment in software selection includes the 'basic-x-window-desktop' group, which is *not* on the DVD. So the environment isn't shown. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: An arbitrarily sized /tmp does not fit all
Panu Matilainen (pmati...@laiskiainen.org) said: > >Check the filesystem -- it's in RAM by default using tmpfs, and tmpfs > >defaults to a size of half of physical ram. To disable and go back to haivng > >it be part of /, > > > > sudo systemctl mask tmp.mount > > > >To change the limit while leaving it in-ram, I assume you'd put the desired > >size in the Options line in the systemd tmp.mount file, but there may be a > >better way. > > > >I believe the argument is that if Brasero needs more space, /var/tmp would > >be a better place. > > This is a fine example of what a facepalm (to put it mildly) the > whole /tmp-on-tmpfs is, really... How so? I imagine there are many desktop systems (I know I've deployed some) where all the spare space is on /home, and don't leave 8GB spare in / for dual-layer DVD isos. (Or Blu-ray, or whatever). Brasero should be checking the size beforehand, checking available writable-by-user space, and doing the right thing for the user (including asking them where appropriate), not just 'failing'. How much of this it does now, I haven't checked. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: post install very slooow
Mike Chambers (m...@mtchambers.com) said: > But I in no way have a reason to have more than 1 linux system, and 1 > windows system on 2 HD's. What in the hell do you use all those OS's > for and do you *really* need/use them? Or do you offer those for > commercial use or something? Just curious, not doggin ya haha. I suspect the use case is 'test every version of OS/distro that comes down the pipe'... if that's your goal, your choices are: 1) virt 2) LVM (note: Linux only) 3) pile'o'partitions For those that can't do #2, and don't feel like doing #1... I could be wrong, of course. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Install didn't bring in libreoffice-langpack-en
Orion Poplawski (or...@cora.nwra.com) said: > On 11/09/2012 12:00 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > >Orion Poplawski (or...@cora.nwra.com) said: > >>Just did a test kickstart install of F18. Used the "@libreoffice" > >>group for package selection, but I didn't get > >>libreoffice-langpack-en installed. Anyone know why? > > > >What version of anaconda & lorax were in the tree you installed from? > >(This just had fixes come across very recently, they may not be in the > >nightly tree.) > > > >Bill > > > > These were with the Beta TC7 images. So I guess I'll wait for the > next set. Thanks! No problem. See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=868869. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Install didn't bring in libreoffice-langpack-en
Orion Poplawski (or...@cora.nwra.com) said: > Just did a test kickstart install of F18. Used the "@libreoffice" > group for package selection, but I didn't get > libreoffice-langpack-en installed. Anyone know why? What version of anaconda & lorax were in the tree you installed from? (This just had fixes come across very recently, they may not be in the nightly tree.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Full, current F18 tree to rsync?
Cole Robinson (crobi...@redhat.com) said: > >> Up until recently this was a full install tree, including the images/ > >> subdir. This makes it easy to use the tree for PXE (like using > >> cobbler import) or URL installs in virt-manager. > >> > >> Now, though, current trees only have Packages/ repodata/ and drpms/ > >> subdirs. (occasionally accessing that URL dumps me at a mirror with a > >> full install tree, but it was last synced on October 16 so obviously > >> > >> Is the change intentional? If so, why? And is there some place to > >> still rsync a full install tree? > > > > It's been broken the last few days. See: > > https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5377 > > > > The previous issue was fixed, but something further is going on now... > > > > Thanks for the link. I only assumed it wasn't temp brokenness since rawhide > trees similarly lack images/: > > http://mirror.steadfast.net/fedora/development/rawhide/x86_64/os/ > > Anyone know why that is? any recommendations if I want to try pxe booting/URL > VM install of rawhide anaconda after F18 GA? It has been intentional that rawhide doesn't produce images, because (at least in the past), it wasn't even remotely expected to work, so it would generally cause a lot of bug reports where the response is 'yes, it's broken, we'll get to that later'. So image generation is turned off in rawhide. If people want it turned back on, we can do so; it's a script change. Obviosly doesn't mean they'll magically start working. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Adding Group KDE Desktop missing package?
Rex Dieter (rdie...@math.unl.edu) said: > Ed Greshko wrote: > > > Installed the latest F18 Alpha with GNOME as the default desktop. > > Updated, and then did a group install of KDE Desktop. kmix wasn't > > included. > > > > Oversight? Intentional? > > Definitely not intentional, there are some not-so-insignificant comps- > related changes being made for the new anaconda, and I personally haven't > had a chance to seriously review the state of things. > > I hope to do so this coming week (before beta). It's in the kde-media group at the moment (which includes amarok, dragon, etc.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: [criteria update] Package set
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > On Mon, 2012-09-17 at 22:38 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said: > > > > There is no default 'package set' now (by design, it's not a bug). > > > > > > This *is* a bug IMO. We should have reasonable defaults and allow the > > > user to change them if he wants. But we should not force the user to > > > make choices that way. A user would have to know the differences > > > between the options to be able to make an informed decision. In case > > > the user has this knowledge he/she can open the spoke and change the > > > selection. In case the user doesn't it might more or less end up in a > > > random/wrong change. > > > > If the user can't make a choice, they should be using a live image, IMO; > > the entire point of the DVD install has always been that it provided > > a choice of things for the user to install. Instead of the prior DVD, > > which offered a variety of co-dependent groups for the user to slice > > and dice at will (often finding new ways to break their system) > > Often? Citation appears to be needed. Quick search pulls: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=674771 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=742618 as examples for the case of 'installing a desktop without any fonts'. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: [criteria update] Package set
drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said: > > There is no default 'package set' now (by design, it's not a bug). > > This *is* a bug IMO. We should have reasonable defaults and allow the > user to change them if he wants. But we should not force the user to > make choices that way. A user would have to know the differences > between the options to be able to make an informed decision. In case > the user has this knowledge he/she can open the spoke and change the > selection. In case the user doesn't it might more or less end up in a > random/wrong change. If the user can't make a choice, they should be using a live image, IMO; the entire point of the DVD install has always been that it provided a choice of things for the user to install. Instead of the prior DVD, which offered a variety of co-dependent groups for the user to slice and dice at will (often finding new ways to break their system), the idea of the current installation is that it provides a set of pre-defined installation choices on the left, all of which should install functional systems (and pretty much resemeble the existing spins.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: [criteria update] Package set
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" (johan...@gmail.com) said: > On 09/06/2012 01:02 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > >"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" (johan...@gmail.com) said: > >>On 09/06/2012 09:40 AM, Kamil Paral wrote: > >>>Johann, I don't really understand your point. The term 'default package > >>>set' no longer exists in Fedora 18. > >>> > >>Unless yum "groups" have been removed in F18 I dont see how the term > >>"default package set" can no longer exist and no longer apply... > >$ grep "" comps-f18.xml.in | sort -u > > false > > > >There is no 'default'; you must choose something. (If you do text mode or > >kickstart, the default is minimal.) > > Which is irrelevant since we use yum groups and what's defined in > them as "default package set" ( along with mandatory ) as the bases > to test, create test and build criteria upon. Perhaps I'm not being clear. There *are no more groups that are installed by default*. Yes, the groups exist, and are used in the installer to help define things that can be installed, but none of them are selected by default any more in an interactive installation. In the interactive install, a choice must be made by the user. The 'default' setting I refer to above in the grep is the default setting *for the groups*, and it's off for everything. There is no more single 'default package set'; each live spin has its own package set, and each installation choice has its own package set. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: [criteria update] Package set
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" (johan...@gmail.com) said: > On 09/06/2012 09:40 AM, Kamil Paral wrote: > >Johann, I don't really understand your point. The term 'default package set' > >no longer exists in Fedora 18. > > > > Unless yum "groups" have been removed in F18 I dont see how the term > "default package set" can no longer exist and no longer apply... $ grep "" comps-f18.xml.in | sort -u false There is no 'default'; you must choose something. (If you do text mode or kickstart, the default is minimal.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: [Test-Announce] Fedora 18 Alpha Test Compose 5 (TC5) Available Now!
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > anaconda just shows the available package groups defined in comps: > it's up to the mate maintainers to get a mate group added to comps. > They could file a bug against the comps component in Bugzilla with a > patch to add a group for mate; they could also ask the comps > maintainer (Bill Nottingham) to give one of them commit privileges > to comps for the purpose of keeping the mate group up to date, I > believe this is standard procedure (we make sure someone from the > maintenance group for each desktop has comps access). comps is open to packager; there's no other access to give. That being said, last I heard MATE wasn't even fully in yet, so offering it before that isn't likely to help users. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: rawhide report: 20120710 changes
Fedora Rawhide Report (rawh...@fedoraproject.org) said: > Compose started at Tue Jul 10 08:15:02 UTC 2012 > > Broken deps for x86_64 > -- > [gnucash] > gnucash-2.4.10-4.fc17.x86_64 requires libofx.so.4()(64bit) > [grisbi] > grisbi-0.8.8-3.fc17.x86_64 requires libofx.so.4()(64bit) > [homebank] > homebank-4.4-3.fc17.x86_64 requires libofx.so.4()(64bit) > [kmymoney] > kmymoney-4.6.2-2.fc18.x86_64 requires libofx.so.4()(64bit) > [skrooge] > skrooge-libs-1.3.0-1.fc18.x86_64 requires libofx.so.4()(64bit) Oops, my bad, didn't catch that the minor update changed ABI. Will fix... Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: will F18 allow simultaneous installation of more than one desktop?
Richard Ryniker (ryni...@alum.mit.edu) said: > Perhaps it is the GNOME/X-server example, which seems to be precisely > what package dependencies handle, that obscures the point you want to > make. Except, they don't. The desktops do not require an X server; they could be run remotely. The desktops do not require a set of fonts; they merely require the presence of a font. So, it is possible (and has been done, and has caused bug reports) to just pick a basic desktop group and not get the infrastructure you need to actually run a local desktop. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: will F18 allow simultaneous installation of more than one desktop?
Andre Robatino (robat...@fedoraproject.org) said: > The package set on the DVD is currently chosen to allow essentially > everything to be installed at once (with transient exceptions such as > samba3/4), hence the repoclosure and file conflicts tests. If the > installer itself is going to make this difficult (kickstart? I've never > had to use that) or impossible, then these tests should be modified > accordingly. Or maybe the DVD could be split into multiple versions, one > for each desktop. Or the DVD could be done away with entirely. If we > intend to go down this path (and I personally hope not) I think these > issues should be resolved *before* the installer is changed to make it > hard to use the DVD the way it's currently designed to be used, > especially if it's not being done to simplify the installer code, or to > prevent users from doing something that's clearly wrong (since lots of > applications are targeted to one desktop but are useful on others), but > purely for coercive purposes (similar to Gnome Shell and no obvious > Power Off option). The DVD isn't designed to be used at all. That's the problem. It offers you a list of groups, and expects you to put them together into a coherent OS. This doesn't really work unless you have some idea of how they function already. The point of this is exactly that - to prevent the user doing something silly like trying to install GNOME but forgetting the X server and fonts. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Dreadfull flash fullscreen performance when using GRUB_TERMINAL=gfxterm
Sandro Mani (manisan...@gmail.com) said: > Hi, > > I have noticed that when using GRUB_TERMINAL=gfxterm (that is, the > default option, which I think is gfxterm), full-screen flash > performance is bad (on a 1440x900 screen it is barely ok, on a > 1920x1200 screen it's terrible). > But if I put GRUB_TERMINAL=console, the performance drammatically > improves. I am seeing this on rawhide with a intel 4500MHD IGP (i915 > driver). > > I am unsure which is the best package to file the bug for: grub2 or > xorg-x11-drv-intel? I'd start with grub2. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Weird Firefox performance issue
Jonathan Kamens (j...@kamens.us) said: > I restarted Firefox many times. I restarted gnome-shell. I restarted > my machine. Nothing helped. Performance was poor immediately after > the restart. There was no perceivable degradation over time -- it > was extremely poor right from when it started up and stayed that > way. In my experience, extremely slow FF performance is usually due to writing out either the assorted sqlite data files in the profile directory, or the big javascript pile that is the session storage. Not sure why move/replace would fix that, though. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Karma needed for builds intended for TC1
Bruno Wolff III (br...@wolff.to) said: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 09:41:40 -0600, > Tim Flink wrote: > >EFI still uses grub instead of grub2 so you'd still be using > >grub-legacy if your system is using EFI. > > My questions is how do you get grub installed? Since grub2 obsoletes it, > when you try to install grub, you should get grub2 instead. Is there > an arch that doesn't have grub2 or is there some other trickery going on? It's packaged as grub-efi. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: automatically mounting physically attached media (was Re: Move from /media to /run/media/$USER)
Richard Ryniker (ryni...@alum.mit.edu) said: > >If I plug it in while I'm logged in, it shows up. I log out and log back in, > >and it still shows up. > > >If I reboot, plug it in during GDM, and then log in... it shows up. Under > >what circumstance does it not show up for you? Aha, for this last one it's a timing issue... if it scans slow enough that it 'appears' during the session, it will be mounted. > If your USB stick is plugged in before you boot your system, where does it > show up? Nowhere. The device node is created (/dev/sd...) but it is not > mounted. (Yes, I believe an entry in /etc/fstab will help in some > cirsumstances.) It shows up in the file manager; it's not mounted. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: automatically mounting physically attached media (was Re: Move from /media to /run/media/$USER)
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > On Wed, 2012-04-18 at 13:10 -0400, Jonathan Kamens wrote: > > > Yes, I'm aware of that, but that's not what I want. > > > > If it is the position of the Fedora developers that /run/media/$USER > > is the right place for stuff to be mounted, and I don't have a > > particular problem with that decision, then I want that behavior, > > i.e., the behavior that the developers think is correct, with the F16 > > behavior of the device being mounted automatically when I log in. > > > > Why shouldn't it act that way? > > Oh, I see. I don't know about that. I don't know if there's a way to > make GNOME mount devices on login rather than on access. I think that's > a GNOME policy question rather than a udisks one. It may be worth asking > on the desktop list. Matthias, are you reading this? So, I'm a bit confused. I tried to reproduce this with a USB stick today. If I plug it in while I'm logged in, it shows up. I log out and log back in, and it still shows up. If I reboot, plug it in during GDM, and then log in... it shows up. Under what circumstance does it not show up for you? Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Move from /media to /run/media/$USER
Jonathan Kamens (j...@kamens.us) said: > It is absurdly unpredictable that if I stick a DVD in my drive after > logging in, it is mounted underneath /run/media/$USER, but if my > computer than crashes, or I reboot it by hand, and I log in > immediately after the reboot, that DVD is no longer mounted. > > Independent of whether the move from /media to /run/media/$USER is a > good idea, and I'm reserving judgment on that, clearly the behavior > I just described above is entirely unexpected by the user and > therefore wrong. The alternative here would be... it magically gets mounted by the first user? That's a bit odd, as well. Note that you should be able to configure static mounts of a cd with something like: /lib/systemd/system/media-cd.mount: [Unit] Description=My CD [Mount] What=/dev/disk/by-path/somewhere/somehow/ Where=/media/cd Bill Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Move from /media to /run/media/$USER
Ankur Sinha (sanjay.an...@gmail.com) said: > On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 19:09 +0530, Ankur Sinha wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I just got into F17 today. It looks great. I do have one tiny query > > though: > > > > my USB media, and other partitions that I mount on-demand are no longer > > showing up in /media. They show up in /run/media/$USER. Can anyone shed > > some light on this? Where is this move documented for instance? I've > > looked at the new FHS[1] which doesn't appear to hold anything on this. > > > > > > [1] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html > > It looks like it's related to udisks2[1]. This needs to be documented > someplace IMO. Thoughts? Release notes seem fine. Basically, removable media mounted in the user's session are now mounted in a user-specific directory. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: future of Fedora and Python???
Frank Murphy (frankl...@gmail.com) said: > >_*The FUTURE of Python is upon us now! When will we catch up...*_ > > yum search python3. Right, we ship both 2.7.x and 3.x versions of python. python 2.7.x will be retired when all the software that uses python2 can be ported to python 3. Much like gtk2 will be retired when all the software that uses gtk2 is ported to gtk3 (and qt3/qt4/qt5, etc.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: SYSFONT kernel parameter?
Tom Horsley (horsley1...@gmail.com) said: > In previous releases the /etc/sysconfig/i18n file and the > SYSFONT boot parameter named a console font. > > I've just installed f17 alpha and they both just say > SYSFONT=True That looks wrong. It should be a font name (such as latarcyrheb-sun16, or whatever. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: New criterion for installation with minimal set of packages
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > On Tue, 2012-01-31 at 10:52 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Petr Schindler (pschi...@redhat.com) said: > > > > Yeah. As far as QA is concerned, the key questions are 'is there a > > > > minimal package set present, does an install with that package set > > > > complete properly, does it boot'. What's *in* it is not really our > > > > concern. > > > > > > So new beta criteria should be: > > > > > > "The installer must be able to complete package installation with a > > > minimal usable set of packages" > > > > > > And what "minimal set" means should be defined somewhere else? And > > as soon as it will be somewhere, we should give the link. > > > > @core > > That's an implementation detail. It's not a capability-driven > description of which packages should actually be in the minimal package > set, as was discussed earlier in the thread. Merely stating that if you're linking to what the minimal set of packages will be, that's it. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: New criterion for installation with minimal set of packages
Petr Schindler (pschi...@redhat.com) said: > > Yeah. As far as QA is concerned, the key questions are 'is there a > > minimal package set present, does an install with that package set > > complete properly, does it boot'. What's *in* it is not really our > > concern. > > So new beta criteria should be: > > "The installer must be able to complete package installation with a minimal > usable set of packages" > > And what "minimal set" means should be defined somewhere else? And as soon as > it will be somewhere, we should give the link. @core Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F17's usrmove and rpmfusion?
Josh Boyer (jwbo...@gmail.com) said: > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Rob Healey (robheal...@gmail.com) said: > >> Can anyone tell me if rpmfusion's rawhide packages have been updated yet > >> for rpm guard? > > > > Given that, at best, rpmfusion builds against rawhide/branched Fedora, > > and that the converted packages only live in the side repository at the > > moment... no. > > > > It's not even clear that any rpmfusion packages would need modified. > > Harald has a patch to kernel.spec to install modules in /usr/lib/modules/ > instead of /lib/. When that goes in, I would think the rpmfusion kmods would > need a similar adjustment. As long as /lib redirects to /usr/lib... it shouldn't be *required*. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Fedora 17’s unified filesystem (/usr-move)
Martin Langhoff (martin.langh...@gmail.com) said: > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Assuming /bin -> /usr/bin link is packaged, yes. > > Wow, it follows the symlink created by a 3rd package. Technically, the link doesn't even need to be packaged; as long as /bin exists in the RPM db (as a dir or as a symlink), RPM will follow the link and resolve the dependency. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F17's usrmove and rpmfusion?
Rob Healey (robheal...@gmail.com) said: > Can anyone tell me if rpmfusion's rawhide packages have been updated yet > for rpm guard? Given that, at best, rpmfusion builds against rawhide/branched Fedora, and that the converted packages only live in the side repository at the moment... no. It's not even clear that any rpmfusion packages would need modified. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Fedora 17’s unified filesystem (/usr-move)
Jef Spaleta (jspal...@gmail.com) said: > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Orion Poplawski wrote: > > I suppose I could add in the i386 repo... > > Is this just a side effect of the special repository structure? For > rawhide itself, once tagged in, would the 32bit packages be available > on the 64bit system without additional intervention? Or is there a > defect in the specfiles? It's a side-effect of the special repo structure - koji repos aren't multilib. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Fedora 17’s unified filesystem (/usr-move)
Martin Langhoff (martin.langh...@gmail.com) said: > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Harald Hoyer wrote: > > Fedora 17 will locate the entire base operating system in /usr. The > > directories > > /bin, /sbin, /lib, /lib64 will only be symlinks: > > /bin → /usr/bin > > Interesting! > > Do we need to teach rpm / yum about the equivalence, when resolving > dependencies? > > For a trivial example -- if package A depends on /bin/foo, will yum & > rpm be satisfied with /usr/bin/foo? Assuming /bin -> /usr/bin link is packaged, yes. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: 32 bit Verne doesn't grok rc.local
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R (c...@omen.com) said: > For years I have used /etc/rc.d/rc.local for this and that > including launching VNC screens. > > [root@gpib rc.d]# cat rc.local > su -l caf -c "vncserver " > su -l root -c "vncserver " > date | mail -s boot c...@omen.com rc.local is generally a shell script. Make sure it's prefixed as one with #!/bin/bash (or your shell of choice.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: how to get "gnome classic with compiz" as boot session option?
Benjamin Kosnik (b...@redhat.com) said: > Just got TC2 to install correctly on macbook pro. Details here: > > http://sunglint.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/fedora-16-vs-macbook-pro-or-air/ > > On my older F16 installs, there was a boot option to use the GNOME3 > compat session. However, in the newer images this is no longer an > option. > > I see that on ubuntu one can install gnome-session-fallback to get this > option. (FWICT). What's the equivalent on Fedora? $ gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.session session-name gnome-fallback (It's a checkbox in the 'Graphics' section of the System Info control panel.) >From that point, I would think you could then, on login, set up compiz - I haven't tried that. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Remove a package from critpath ?
Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) said: > Xavier Bachelot (xav...@bachelot.org) said: > > However, I've again received crit path updates nag mails saying the F14 > > and F15 updates still needs to be approved. > > The crit path box is still ticked for all fedora branches in the > > pkgdb(1). Also, the package is not listed anymore in crit path packages > > for F16(2) but is still listed for F17(3). I don't know how to check the > > crit path packages list for F14 and F15. > > > > Do I just need to be patient and the changes will propagate or is there > > something else to do ? > > It requires: > a) pkgdb being updated > b) bodhi pulling from pkgdb > > a) is a manual process, will get to it at some point this week. b), I'm > unsure of the status on. a) (update of pkgdb) has been done now. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.dFHsbt: line 1: [: missing `]'
Andre Robatino (robat...@fedoraproject.org) said: > > Look at the scripts for the packages in your transaction (rpm -q --scripts > > <...>), audit them for syntax errors. > > Finally found that on Rawhide, it was simple-scan, already reported as > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=733532 . On today's F16 updates, I > saw the error twice, once referring to line 1, and once to line 2. One of > those > was simple-scan again, I'm not sure about the other but I found errors in > selinux-policy and selinux-policy-targeted and reported them as > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=740422 . I wish there was an > easier > way to find these if they're going to be happening this often. The best way is to have the full transaction log and then you can reasonably pinpoint the package based on where you got the message. Unless, of course, it's an error in %posttrans. RPM has the information as to what it's running a script from... perhaps file a RFE to expose it? Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.dFHsbt: line 1: [: missing `]'
Andre Robatino (robat...@fedoraproject.org) said: > On today's 20110921 Rawhide updates, I got this error running "yum > --skip-broken > distro-sync" during the cleanup. I've seen this several times over the last > few > weeks, on F16 as well I think. The message itself is completely useless, since > there isn't enough time to look at the file before it's replaced by another > one, > and I don't find anything in the logs. It should be easy to fix the package > responsible, if there was a way to find out what it is. Anyone know? Look at the scripts for the packages in your transaction (rpm -q --scripts <...>), audit them for syntax errors. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Remove a package from critpath ?
Xavier Bachelot (xav...@bachelot.org) said: > However, I've again received crit path updates nag mails saying the F14 > and F15 updates still needs to be approved. > The crit path box is still ticked for all fedora branches in the > pkgdb(1). Also, the package is not listed anymore in crit path packages > for F16(2) but is still listed for F17(3). I don't know how to check the > crit path packages list for F14 and F15. > > Do I just need to be patient and the changes will propagate or is there > something else to do ? It requires: a) pkgdb being updated b) bodhi pulling from pkgdb a) is a manual process, will get to it at some point this week. b), I'm unsure of the status on. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Remove a package from critpath ?
Xavier Bachelot (xav...@bachelot.org) said: > Meanwhile, If I understand correctly, all X drivers inherit critpath > because they are required by xorg-x11-drivers which is itself a critpath > package. > So either xorg-x11-drivers stops requiring the non-critpath drivers, > which is probably not what we want because they would then not be > installed by default, either xorg-x11-drivers and all but the selected > few X drivers loose their critpath status. Without reading about the > plan you mentioned above, I'll tend for the later, but again I'll be > glad to learn about the current status. Given that critpath is currently done solely by dependency resolution of certain comps groups, 'excluding' a package isn't really possible. If you look at the group, you'll note: If someone wants to send me a list, I'd be happy to do the comps edit. (I would assume ati, evdev, fbdev, intel, nouveau, synaptics, vesa.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Broken dependencies with Fedora 14 + updates-testing - 2011-09-13
Gianluca Sforna (gia...@gmail.com) said: > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Michael Schwendt > wrote: > > > > == > > Broken packages in fedora-14-x86_64: > > > > rawstudio-1.2-6.fc14.20100907svn3521.i686 requires libexiv2.so.9 > > Can anyone explain why this i686 package is in the x86_64 repo? It was > also updated few months ago to 2.0 > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2011-5560 The 1.2.x version of the package was included in F-14 GA because it includes development libs/headers. So, if someone installed the x86 version in F14 GA, they may have an issue on update if it's not multilib (or differently multilib) in updates. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Update to gdm-3.1.90-1 and/or gdm-plugin-fingerprint-3.1.90-1 break the gdm login
Joachim Backes (joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de) said: > Hi, > > after having updated to gdm-3.1.90-1 and > gdm-plugin-fingerprint-3.1.90-1 the login fails (error: "Oh no! > Something has gone wrong"). > > Disabling the gnome-shell-extensions (as proposed) is useless in > this situation. > > Anybody has the same issue? Some things I ran into yesterday: - make sure you have caribou installed (this should be added to requirements in a new build) - make sure you have libgee-devel installed (this should be fixed in a new build so you don't need this package) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: persistent gnome dep problems (F16 alpha rc3-5, alpha), --skip-broken wants to haul in 32-bit libs
Jonathan Corbet (corbet...@lwn.net) said: > - Somewhere in the middle, while I'm not looking, the update kills the >running session and/or X server - I come back to a login screen. It >used to be safe to run "yum update" from a terminal window, but, >seemingly, not anymore. Not really a step in the right direction. There was a bug that caused dbus to get restarted when it should not have been. I believe this is in the process of having a fix pushed. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: persistent gnome dep problems (F16 alpha rc3-5, alpha), --skip-broken wants to haul in 32-bit libs
Matthias Clasen (mcla...@redhat.com) said: > On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 11:35 +0200, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > I have not seen any mention of this on the list so far so here it goes. > > I've been seeing gnome dep problems for the last few days (through alpha > > rc's and now alpha). > > > Error: Protected multilib versions: > > gnome-panel-libs-3.1.5-2.fc16.x86_64 != > > gnome-panel-libs-3.0.2-3.fc16.i686 > > > > I have no idea what these errors mean or how to fix them. > Any advice would be appreciated. Actually, this one is kind of > understandable, but I have also seen 'protected multilib' stuff where > both sides of the != were the same arch, which left me wondering. That error is just a side-effect of how --skip-broken is working right now. While that can be fixed, the real problem is that not everything is rebuilt properly against the current versions of e-d-s and libgnome-keyring. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Version 16 not an option in bugzilla
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 14:36 -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > > With the branch sort of complete, shouldn't 16 be an option for the version > > now? (Currently I am not seeing it as an option when submitting bugs.) > > Yes, it should be. If it still isn't, you can email > bugzilla-reque...@redhat.com , I believe this is the last procedure I > heard of for getting stuff done in RH bugzilla... It should be there now. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: rawhide report -- where and when?
Rob Healey (robheal...@gmail.com) said: > Is this really two days in a row of no Rawhide Report? Well, when there's two days of no rawhide trees... Fixing. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Info on lack of rawhide composes?
Bruno Wolff III (br...@wolff.to) said: > On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 07:39:39 -0500, > Bruno Wolff III wrote: > > This looks to be the third day in a row without a rawhide composes. > > Is there any information available on what is happening? > > Are there build logs like there are for the nightly live image composes? > > Looks like it did rebuild today, but I'm still interested in knowing where > to look to see logs of the builds. http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/mash/rawhide-/logs Not that it says much in these cases. Brief look at the system logs point to OOM as a possible culprit. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Rawhide, What component? password level 3
Joachim Backes (joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de) said: > On 06/07/2011 11:15 AM, Frank Murphy wrote: > > Booting to telinit 3, > > login: user > > password: > > password comes up in cleattext. > > > > Does anyone else see this? > > I had this effect in early F15 (alpha/beta) times, but now I got rid > from this. If I remember correctly, it was a race condition problem. It's generally an issue with plymouth not leaving the terminal settings correct, due to when it shuts down with respect to when the getty starts. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Proposal: Too similar application names
Genes MailLists (li...@sapience.com) said: > The optional executable name should always be available. However these > details are really 'upstream' aren't they? Yeah, changing how the various desktop's launchers work is an upstream decision (in fact, changing what things are named in desktop files probably is as well.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F-15 Branched report: 20110515 changes
Tom Callaway (tcall...@redhat.com) said: > Lately, I've been trying to resolve as many of these as reasonably > possible. Here's what I know: Note that the applet issues should be obsoleted by the gnome-panel in updates-testing, slated for 0-day. I have not blocked the packages, because most of them still had owners. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Syslog not running?
James Laska (jla...@redhat.com) said: > > According to the bug this is being ignored as a vital issue as it does > > not "clearly hit any release criteria". > > Ignored is not the correct term. It was requested as a nice-to-have for > F15 ... and it fell off the maintainers radar. Also, it seems I forgot > to keep nagging them about it. We'll likely have this in 'updates' in > time, and disaster will be averted. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/rsyslog-5.7.9-3.fc15 is now available. You'd want to test this on upgrades from F-14 or prior; it's not going to do anything on upgrades from the currently-in-F15 version. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
glibc-2.13.90-12 needs testing - re-adds RPC API
Notably, this re-adds the RPC API to glibc's exported interface, so please test that rebuilding your applications still works, or works again. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/glibc-2.13.90-12 Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: systemd question
Tom Horsley (horsley1...@gmail.com) said: > I've been fooling with the systemctl (unfortunately similar > to the sysctl name) tool, and I see "units" for all the > devices on my system with long names something like > sys-pci-yadda-yadda.device. > > I have occasionally wanted the ability to make some bit > of hardware on my system disappear. Don't want linux to > fool with it at all (but don't want to take it apart > and yank the board either :-). > > Can I use systemctl to do this? Essentially disable > some device unit so the system won't try to use that > bit of hardware for anything? To the best of my knowledge, no. Those are populated in systemd via udev. > Just curious. (Of course what I really want is probably > something at a much lower level - something like a > kernel command line parameter that would make the > initial device enumeration skip the device entirely > as early in the boot process as possible). rd.driver.blacklist= Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: ntpdate.service
Clyde E. Kunkel (clydekunkel7...@cox.net) said: > I am wondering why ntpdate.service is enabled in systemd when updating > the clock via the network time service was never requested? It was a bug in the %post script, AFAICT. I've submitted an update that should fix this for upgrades from F-14, but if it's already been enabled for you at some point during the development cycle, you'll have to disable it yourself. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Focus-follows-mouse in Gnome-shell?
Tom Horsley (horsley1...@gmail.com) said: > > Afaik it's not exposed in the tweak tool UI. Just set the key > > "/apps/metacity/general/focus_mode" to either "sloppy" or "mouse" (there > > used to be a difference between these two but I don't see it anymore in > > 2.34). > > This certainly confuses me. I thought the new window manager > was mutter, so why does setting keys for metacity have > an effect? (It does indeed work, mind you, I just don't > know why). They share a good deal of code, so they share configuration keys. Also, it better allows for sharing of settings like this between the normal mode (which uses mutter) and the fallback mode (that uses metacity.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: groupinstall Window\ Managers
cornel panceac (cpanc...@gmail.com) said: > sorry i was gone for a few days but, if this is normal, then what's the > point of the group? i thought having groups is an easy way to install many > related packages with one groupinstall command. The problem is the usage case here - while there's a usage case of installing every window manager, I think the more likely usage case is browsing the available ones and selecting which one you want - that's how that group is set up to work. This is much like how most all of the games in the games group are marked as optional packages. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Well, I have tried systemd now ...
Karel Volný (kvo...@redhat.com) said: > > (which is ?) > > - I'd be interested too ... last time I've met this was some form > of not-so-thin client setup, where the machines weren't able to > boot completely from network for some reason, so that they had > basic system installed on them and then mounted the rest from the > network Honestly, that case I'm really not interested in... with PXE and similar tools, this shouldn't be the case today. It is far far far far simpler and cleaner to boot completely from the network. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Well, I have tried systemd now ...
Michal Jaegermann (mic...@harddata.com) said: > > Essentially, you have to ensure that everything called during the > > boot cycle up until the point that /usr is mounted, > > In Fedora 14 instead of weird excuses you run in /etc/init.d/udev-post > >/sbin/udevadm trigger --type=failed --action=add > > Most likely ensuring that something of that sort is present in > an appropriate place of a boot sequence would solve the issue in > practice. File a RFE, then? > > So, then > > it's a cost-benefit ratio, and weigh that at against the usage case > > of separate /usr (which is ?) > > I do not have statistics and you do not have them either. I have > seen quite a few in various places. So how much of such breakage > is ok? Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was asking what you're using separate-/usr for. Is it just out of tradition, or do you have a specific usage case you tackle with it? Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Well, I have tried systemd now ...
Michal Jaegermann (mic...@harddata.com) said: > Well, Lennart says explicitely that with systemd and /usr mounted > on its own file system things like audio, or printing or plug'n'play > will not work and that he does not care as they were broken anyway. > Maybe in some of his warped universe as I can assure you that up and > including Fedora 14, and with /usr like the above, all these things > do work just fine. Essentially, you have to ensure that everything called during the boot cycle up until the point that /usr is mounted, including any and all programs called from udev rules, have all the libraries, configuration, and data they need to write to, available on the root partition. (*) It's something that certainly can be made to work where problems are found, with enough effort - that would be auditing that would have to be done on each release (potentially each update!). So, then it's a cost-benefit ratio, and weigh that at against the usage case of separate /usr (which is ?) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Well, I've tried GNOME 3 now...
JB (jb.1234a...@gmail.com) said: > Now this: > http://gnome3.org/ > > "A satisfying experience, whatever kind of computer you use: GNOME 3 will feel > right at home on netbooks as well as larger machines" > > Really ? Like servers. workstations, PCs, notebooks ? Used by RH enterprise > customers, non-technical businesses (big and small), users who do not sleep > with their computers but use them as *tools* to accomplish their daily tasks ? Why, yes, that would be the goal. Is there something wrong with that? (You've essentially restated the goal without comment or data. How am I supposed to parse that, other than just implied sarcasm?) > Why did Fedora decide to abandon Gnome 2, instead of offering Gnome 3 as > an experimental college-level project via a spin (as one poster here already > asked), representing a work-in-progress where geeks still learn their > Computer > Science principles and skills ? Well, that's a nice bit of assumption-of-stupidity invective there. Now that you've insulted people, they will certainly all turn around to your point of view! (Then again, given you decided to post on upstream lists that, because you don't like the activities design, they should start kicking the developers responsible for GNOME 3 out of the project, I'm not sure I should be surprised.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Well, I've tried GNOME 3 now...
(drifting way off-topic for test@, at this point...) Gregory Maxwell (gmaxw...@gmail.com) said: > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > http://git.gnome.org/ > > http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > > > > The beautiful thing about open source is that you always have that choice. > > Sure, you may not like the amount of effort that may be involved (on a > > scale that goes from switching your local desktop, all the way up to forking > > your own copy of GNOME 2.30 and taking it in whatever direction you feel > > like), but it doesn't mean you don't have that choice. > > Even if there were no "open source" you'd have the _choice_ of creating your > own operating system and software all from scratch if the available software > didn't work the way you needed it to. But because of the enormous effort > required that "freedom" isn't very meaningful. It was stated that GNOME upstream, to use the Ford analogy, have eliminated the panel/menu/desktop-icon desktop metaphor from existence in Fedora 'by fiat'. I find that a pretty silly argument given the choices that are available. However, it's these sort of reactions that drive me up the wall. Carping about "not being given a choice"? Complaining to "give me XXX back"? Saying "it been honestly [described] everyone interested in GNOME could have known their favorite desktop project's maintainers had abandoned them over a year ago and made the decision to either step up and maintain it or put the effort into picking a new one"? (Ignoring the part where GNOME Shell has been developed entirely in the open for the better part of 2-3 years..) The entire point of creating a participatory culture is that *you have agency in your decisions*. Anyone using OSX, or iOS, or hell, even Android in a lot of cases, can vent on a mailing list, or post to their blog about how all the horrible changes The Man is doing to their software is ruining it. But with F/OSS, Fedora, GNOME, *you* have some ability to direct what happens. Now, is a voice in the wilderness who is othewise dissociated from anything happening upstream going to dissuade people? Not likely. Is a general consensus? Maybe. Is a huge swath of the userbase voting with their feet, or forking the project? Likely. But, really... talk is just that. Talk. And, truly, it is work to take over maintenance of something when upstream goes a different way. But it *does* happen in open source. Mozilla discontinued the all-in-one application suite. Enough people got a critical mass that there's now the SeaMonkey project - http://seamonkey-project.org/ Oracle was becoming less and less attuned to the OpenOffice.org community of users and developers. Thus begat... LibreOffice. KDE switched to KDE 4, changing many things in the process. Some people were disgruntled enough to maintain a fork of that - http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ If, truly, 'everyone interested in GNOME' has been abandoned, surely some level of critical mass could be attained? Or could be redirected to make some other desktop better in the way these people want? > That sort of argument should be rebutted with evidence that on the whole > and in the long term the change is expected to be beneficial to the user > community and/or the GNU/Linux ecosystem overall and evidence that these > goals could not otherwise be met through means which deprived (by forcing > them into non-standard configurations) fewer users of the value that > Fedora provides. Well, there's the unstated link from "I don't like it" to "net-detrimental to the Fedora user community" above. Which is an argument that also needs evidence. (Some has been posted. A lot of complaints don't have much in the way of evidence.) Aside from that... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mission ... The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and open source software and content as a collaborative community. The three elements of this mission are clear: The Fedora Project always strives to lead, not follow. The Fedora Project consistently seeks to create, improve, and spread free/libre code and content. ... >From there, it's not a huge logical step that one of the best ways to accomplish that goals is to spread the Fedora OS to a wider audience. Now, let's take some random stats: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Wikimedia_traffic_by_linux_os.svg Or, to view the same data in a different way: ENTITY Feb 11 Apr 09 Change Fedora 23503257-27.85% Similarly, if you view https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stats, and similar pages, the trend is relatively flat, or downward, ever since Fedora Core 6. (There's a slight peak around F11 or F12, but even so, it's not a dras
Re: Fallback mode further hosed?
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: > Did gnome-panel recently switch backend to gsettings or something? That > was the first explanation that popped into my head when I read the > symptoms. Yes. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Well, I've tried GNOME 3 now...
Ian Pilcher (arequip...@gmail.com) said: > On 04/25/2011 11:19 AM, drago01 wrote: > > "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster > > horse.” – Henry Ford > > But Henry Ford didn't eliminate animal powered transportation by fiat. > The "people" ultimately decided that they preferred motorized transport. > > GNOME users are not being given that choice. http://git.gnome.org/ http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ The beautiful thing about open source is that you always have that choice. Sure, you may not like the amount of effort that may be involved (on a scale that goes from switching your local desktop, all the way up to forking your own copy of GNOME 2.30 and taking it in whatever direction you feel like), but it doesn't mean you don't have that choice. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: groupinstall Window\ Managers
cornel panceac (cpanc...@gmail.com) said: > # yum groupinstall Window\ Managers > ... > Warning: Group window-managers does not have any packages. > No packages in any requested group available to install or update It doesn't have any *default* packages. yum --setopt=group_package_types=default,mandatory,optional groupinstall Window\ Managers may do what you want. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: postfix versus sendmail
Tom Horsley (horsley1...@gmail.com) said: > Just curious why sendmail is still the default on f15? Inertia. No one has yet cared about this enough to overcome the rash of complaints & discussion that such a change would entail. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Gnome 3 Calendar
Peter Robinson (pbrobin...@gmail.com) said: > > The Gnome3 Calendar seems to require Evolution. Is there a way to use > > some other calendar program (e.g., Thunderbird with Lightning) or to > > link it directly to a Google calendar? > > The old panel based clock applet used evolution as well. Nothing has > changed there in that regard. > > You can link a google calendar to evolution. In evolution go to the > calendar. Select File -> New -> Calendar. Select Google from the drop > down box. It supports a number of different calendars. FWIW, the calendars are stored in gconf (/apps/evolution/calendar). It might be *possible* to set them directly/programmatically without the UI, but I wouldn't want to recommend it. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Suspend/hibernate on systems that don't suspend/resume or hibernate properly
Fabian A. Scherschel (f...@sixgun.org) said: > How can I choose hibernate if it isn't exposed? Sorry, I was referring to the power management settings for suspend key/critical battery settings, etc. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Suspend/hibernate on systems that don't suspend/resume or hibernate properly
Fabian A. Scherschel (f...@sixgun.org) said: > > I don't think it does this (hybrid suspend), it just suspends. > > So we are knowingly risking people's laptops just running out of battery in > a bag somewhere and their systems dying with possible data loss? As the > default? Hybrid suspend has never really been supported. You certainly can choose to hibernate instead of suspend-to-RAM. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: systemd wiki page and FAQ
Rahul Sundaram (methe...@gmail.com) said: > I recommend posting to systemd mailing list or filing a RFE. init q > would be useless in systemd since /etc/inittab is not used anymore. init q still works, in the same manner as sysvinit - it tells systemd to reload its configuration. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: systemd: how to list enabled services
Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) said: > on and off map to systemctl enable whereas chkconfig would set the service > on and off in certain runlevels. So they're now more similar to chkconfig > --add. Not exactly. chkconfig --add doesn't change the state of the service, unless it hasn't been set up at all. > The case doesn't check targets like chkconfig does with > runlevels. If you pass --levels to chkconfig, it doesn't forward to systemd. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: systemd: how to list enabled services
Ian Pilcher (arequip...@gmail.com) said: > > According to the wiki, chkconfig should work with systemd. Doesn't it? > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#Does_chkconfig_command_work_with_systemd.3F > > Running "chkconfig --list" prints this warning: > > Note: This output shows SysV services only and does not include native > systemd services. SysV configuration data might be overriden by native > systemd configuration. To be precise, the following commands in chkconfig have systemd integration: - on (to enable a service) - off (to disable a service) - (to check whether a single passed service is enabled) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15: after locking screen unlock is impossible
Joachim Backes (joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de) said: > >Did you solved that? > > Yes. The reason was that /bin/su had no owner-s-bit. After adding > the sbit (chmod u+s /bin/su) I got rid from these problems. ... How did you install? To what filesystem type? Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Network control
A.J. Werkman (aj.werk...@digifarma.nl) said: > >1.http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-1.html > >2.http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-2.html > >3.http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-3.html > >4.http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-3.html > > Yes I know. But is the old network startup script not ported to the > new systemd? That would mean I am forced to use NetworkManager to > start up networking? The network script will call NM to control interfaces if NM happens to be running. There are some discussions on how NM gets autostarted under some conditions where it perhaps shouldn't be that are still being resolved. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: rawhide Report--2011 Feb 17
Rob Healey (robheal...@gmail.com) said: > Is there going to be no rawhide report for today??? Compose crashed, so, no. (rawhide gets composed in a rawhide chroot. Occasionally things happen.) Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: NOPL instruction back in Rawhide?
Andre Robatino (robat...@fedoraproject.org) said: > > I believe the original issue was caused by binutils inserting the > > instruction > > when the assembler was called with i686 optimizations. The fix that was > > added > > to prior releases was to change glibc to not call the assembler that way, as > > a workaround. Since then, binutils has (theoretically) been fixed to not do > > this; hence it's reassigned to binutils as that change doesn't seem to be > > working. > > Thanks for the explanation. Does this mean that i686 packages being built now > may get infected with NOPL as a result and have to be rebuilt later? There was > just an announcement on the devel list of a mass rebuild starting in 2 days. I may be mistaken, but I believe it still requires passing -mtune=i686 directly to the linker, which (in general) things in Fedora do not do. I have not confirmed this, though. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: rawhide report: 20110204 changes
Michael Schwendt (mschwe...@gmail.com) said: > > gnome-applet-bubblemon-2.0.15-1.fc13.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-cpufire-1.6-3.fc14.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-globalmenu-0.7.9-1.fc15.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-grandr-0.4.1-2.fc12.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-music-2.5.1-5.fc15.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-netspeed-0.16-5.fc15.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-remmina-0.7.3-1.fc14.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-sensors-2.2.7-4.fc15.i686 requires libpanel-applet-2.so.0 > > gnome-applet-sensors-2.2.7-4.fc15.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > gnome-applet-window-picker-0.5.8-2.fc14.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > 1:gnome-applets-2.32.0-3.fc15.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-3.so.0()(64bit) > > 1:gnome-applets-2.32.0-3.fc15.x86_64 requires libgweather.so.1()(64bit) > > 1:gnome-applets-2.32.0-3.fc15.x86_64 requires > > libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit) > > > > What are gnome-applet packagers supposed to do here? > A thread on desktop list suggests that panel applets won't be supported > anymore. Panel applets are not supported in Gnome Shell. The fallback mode does rely on the older gnome-panel code, which does still have libpanel-appplet (it has a new ABI in F-15, hence the broken deps). Maintainers can either rebuild against/port to the libpanel-applet-4 ABI if they really want to, knowing that this would only be available in the fallback mode. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: NOPL instruction back in Rawhide?
Peter Robinson (pbrobin...@gmail.com) said: > >> I re-opened the old bug and linked it against F15Alpha blocker bug > >> > >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=579838 > > > > The Version should be "rawhide". I was surprised that the Component was > > changed > > from glibc to binutils - do you know if this is correct, and if so, why? > > Yes, I forgot that when I reopened it, its now updated. As for the > change of component you'll have to ask Andreas Schwab > as he was the one who changed it. I believe the original issue was caused by binutils inserting the instruction when the assembler was called with i686 optimizations. The fix that was added to prior releases was to change glibc to not call the assembler that way, as a workaround. Since then, binutils has (theoretically) been fixed to not do this; hence it's reassigned to binutils as that change doesn't seem to be working. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: NOPL instruction back in Rawhide?
Andre Robatino (robat...@fedoraproject.org) said: > Checking recent Koji glibc.i686 builds, the latest one (2.13.90-1 for Rawhide > from Jan. 25) appears to be the only one with the problem. The two earlier > builds (2.12.90-21.fc15 for Rawhide from Dec. 21, and 2.13-1 for F14 from Jan. > 20) don't have it. Please file this... I'm not seeing this in bugzilla. Bill -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
