Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Fri, 2012-04-20 at 17:46 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > - but I repeat "I never had", 'cause ine pre-PA years I've been > using cards with hardware mixing; owners of the cheap integrated > ones may see that as a benefit, as previous attempts like ESD or > aRts weren't much better than PA either I don't know why software mixing always comes up when talking about PA, because it's really pretty irrelevant. ALSA itself has been able to do software mixing for years and years, since before PA was commonly used. There's an ALSA module called 'dmix' which does software mixing and which is loaded by default for all ALSA drivers nowadays. Software mixing is not a benefit of PA, in any practical sense. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Fri, 2012-04-20 at 16:55 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > Dne Út 17. dubna 2012 16:36:08, Adam Williamson napsal(a): > > On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 14:36 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > > now if there is only one volume control, how do I express > > > that I want to mute the microphone and set the line-in to > > > some value? > > PA doesn't treat this as a question of volumes but a question > > of inputs, or, as GNOME volume control puts it, 'connectors'. > > On the Input tab of the GNOME volume control applet thingy, > > how can I run this outside of GNOME which I do not use? The idea is you'd use a PA mixer native to whatever environment you want. Or simply pavucontrol, which gives you much the same stuff. > > they show up as options in a drop-down list. You can pick one > > input source at a time. > > so, I can't actually mix them? Well, I don't know, and don't want to sound too definite either way. I _think_ that cards which are actually capable of mixing multiple inputs present, to ALSA, a 'mixer' channel or something of the sort. I don't know if that channel is available as an input in PA's UI, on such a card. I really don't want to commit to anything down that line, as I don't know enough to be sure. > > You pick an input source, then pick the volume for it. > > sounds very easy, intuitive, comfortable and productive in > comparison with classical mixer-like[1] interface ... Yeah, I think that's the idea. =) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Fri, 2012-04-20 at 17:46 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > > Either way, file a bug report > > that's what I've done > > - would you dare to guess what is the reaction? Not our problem? They have a very good SEP field generator. > > Yes, there is usually some initial pain when major subsystems > > like audio or init get changed, but in the end, the result is > > so much better. > > ahem, PA got introduced in F8[1], this is nearly 5 years ago!(*) And some of us remember Pottering declaring years ago that Pulse was going to be subject to Brooks Law and was already planning it's replacement. Pulse is now getting close enough to working that more people leave it enabled than remove it so my money is on a new effort to rip and replace as soon as he gets done leaving system init and logging in a smoking heap of fail for others to finish.. most likely by ripping and replacing again. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
Dne Út 17. dubna 2012 22:02:40, Samuel Sieb napsal(a): > John Morris wrote: > > It doesn't. And nobody cares, go buy hardware that works the > > way Pottering imagines it 'should' work is the closest you > > will get to real world advice. It doesn't actually exist > > mind you, so you can't really buy it. You will just have to > > imagine how wonderful it would be. > > > > It is insane, it has been insane now for several years and is > > only getting worse by the day. And when the insanity in one > > subsystem, after years of pain, finally begins to subside it > > will be rubbished and rebuilt from scratch again. Meh. > > It is so frustrating to hear people complaining about > pulseaudio like this. but I doubt it is as frustrating as being forced to use PulseAudio when plain old ALSA has worked better ... > Pulseaudio is an amazing improvement for the use of sound on > Linux. pity that a lot of people, including me, fail to see the improvement - in fact, it is a huge disturbance for them > For 99% of users, it just works like it should. [Citation needed] I manage three installs of Fedora and "it just works like it should" simply doesn't hold true for any of them yes, for 66.6% of the users of these installs "it just works" as I've fixed the things for them ... > I love how software mixing just works FOR ME and I can ... ^^ here, I've fixed that sentence for you > In the cases where pulseaudio doesn't work, it's usually an > ALSA bug or specialized audio cards which tend to come with > their own control software anyways. ROFL :-D :-D :-D man, I'm really sorry but I cannot react to that in any other way it's like one guy tried to persuade me recently that Akonadi works perfectly, all the bugs are somewhere else - even when the "akonadiserver" process is stuck and needs to be killed, it is not a bug of Akonadi but a bug of KMail, LOL ... > Either way, file a bug report that's what I've done - would you dare to guess what is the reaction? > instead of writing off the whole thing just because it doesn't > work for you. no, I write it off "just because" the core philosophy behind the project seems ill to me I'm no control freak, I don't need things like JACK or what do the professional musicians use, however, I need to be able to control basic things while PA prevents me to control even those imagine smörgåsbord ... - the control freak wants to choose what is on the table, what ingredients are used to prepare it, which spices etc. etc. - I just want to choose a few pieces from the table and happily eat what do I like and how do I like it - PA takes from the table some random selection of things that don't go together well, puts it in a bowl, melds it into disguisting matter and feeds it to me through my nostrils > Yes, there is usually some initial pain when major subsystems > like audio or init get changed, but in the end, the result is > so much better. ahem, PA got introduced in F8[1], this is nearly 5 years ago!(*) and the "result" is still a pain, I never had such issues with plain ALSA - but I repeat "I never had", 'cause ine pre-PA years I've been using cards with hardware mixing; owners of the cheap integrated ones may see that as a benefit, as previous attempts like ESD or aRts weren't much better than PA either [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/FeatureList K. (*) just FYI, there are users that simply do not have another 5 years to wait until PA's "child diseases" will be cured even if they would pay anything to have those 5 years ... -- Karel Volný QE BaseOs/Daemons Team Red Hat Czech, Brno tel. +420 532294274 (RH: +420 532294111 ext. 8262074) xmpp ka...@jabber.cz :: "Never attribute to malice what can :: easily be explained by stupidity." signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
Dne Út 17. dubna 2012 16:36:08, Adam Williamson napsal(a): > On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 14:36 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > now if there is only one volume control, how do I express > > that I want to mute the microphone and set the line-in to > > some value? > PA doesn't treat this as a question of volumes but a question > of inputs, or, as GNOME volume control puts it, 'connectors'. > On the Input tab of the GNOME volume control applet thingy, how can I run this outside of GNOME which I do not use? - I've tried "yum provides *volume*" and look for gnome thing, but I have found nothing relevant (except for zillions of icons like "/usr/share/icons/elementary/apps/24/gnome-volume- control.svg") > they show up as options in a drop-down list. You can pick one > input source at a time. so, I can't actually mix them? > You pick an input source, then pick the volume for it. sounds very easy, intuitive, comfortable and productive in comparison with classical mixer-like[1] interface ... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixing_console K. -- Karel Volný QE BaseOs/Daemons Team Red Hat Czech, Brno tel. +420 532294274 (RH: +420 532294111 ext. 8262074) xmpp ka...@jabber.cz :: "Never attribute to malice what can :: easily be explained by stupidity." signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
John Morris wrote: It doesn't. And nobody cares, go buy hardware that works the way Pottering imagines it 'should' work is the closest you will get to real world advice. It doesn't actually exist mind you, so you can't really buy it. You will just have to imagine how wonderful it would be. It is insane, it has been insane now for several years and is only getting worse by the day. And when the insanity in one subsystem, after years of pain, finally begins to subside it will be rubbished and rebuilt from scratch again. Meh. It is so frustrating to hear people complaining about pulseaudio like this. Pulseaudio is an amazing improvement for the use of sound on Linux. For 99% of users, it just works like it should. I love how software mixing just works and I can easily switch between output devices and it even keeps separate volume settings for each device. For example, when I turn off the active bluetooth headset, the sound automatically switches back to the internal speakers without interrupting the application. But it is just a layer on top of ALSA, so you still have the tools you had before to mess with the sound card settings (like alsamixer). In the cases where pulseaudio doesn't work, it's usually an ALSA bug or specialized audio cards which tend to come with their own control software anyways. Either way, file a bug report instead of writing off the whole thing just because it doesn't work for you. Yes, there is usually some initial pain when major subsystems like audio or init get changed, but in the end, the result is so much better. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 16:13 -0500, John Morris wrote: > On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 14:36 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > > - how is this supposed to work with "one slider rule them all" > > type of control? > > It doesn't. And nobody cares, go buy hardware that works the way > Pottering imagines it 'should' work is the closest you will get to real > world advice. It doesn't actually exist mind you, so you can't really > buy it. You will just have to imagine how wonderful it would be. > > It is insane, it has been insane now for several years and is only > getting worse by the day. And when the insanity in one subsystem, after > years of pain, finally begins to subside it will be rubbished and > rebuilt from scratch again. Meh. Well no, the advice he got was 'instead of asking for the sliders, please report what it is you need to use the sliders to fix so we can make it work in a better way'. This is what both Lennart and the ALSA developers have been saying for years. This is the kind of work you see going on in alsa-devel every day, if you take the trouble to read it. But by all means, go on living in your much angrier version of reality if it makes you feel happier. Meh. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 14:36 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > - how is this supposed to work with "one slider rule them all" > type of control? It doesn't. And nobody cares, go buy hardware that works the way Pottering imagines it 'should' work is the closest you will get to real world advice. It doesn't actually exist mind you, so you can't really buy it. You will just have to imagine how wonderful it would be. It is insane, it has been insane now for several years and is only getting worse by the day. And when the insanity in one subsystem, after years of pain, finally begins to subside it will be rubbished and rebuilt from scratch again. Meh. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Jonathan Kamens wrote: > > If ALSA and pulseaudio worked better together, i.e., they were, between the > two of them, smart enough to automatically DTRT with the low-level sound > settings, then there would be no need for anyone but the real audiophiles to > access those settings directly. Exactly that's the point. > But they don't work perfectly together. If > you just fixed all the glitches so that everything worked better > out-of-the-box, I'd be perfectly happy never needing to run the ALSA mixer > again. They do work for me but anyway in case it does not work you should not ask for a different interface with random knobs to tweak but file the issues you found as bugs. As you said it should just work if it doesn't that's a bug and needs to be fixed. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
Review request submitted! https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=813420 Richard -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Brendan Jones wrote: > On 04/17/2012 06:13 PM, Richard Shaw wrote: >> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Brendan Jones >> wrote: >>> >>> Qastools is coming to Fedora soon which is Qt based [1]. It is also being >>> used in the Qt Razor desktop which I hope will make it to Fedora someday >>> >>> [1] http://xwmw.org/qastools/ >> >> >> Try this: >> >> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34775202/qastools/qastools-0.17.1-1.fc16.x86_64.rpm >> >> I love packaging cmake projects because they're a lot easier for me to >> fix if there's something wrong, but in this case all I had to do was >> patch a few desktop files for desktop-file-validate. Nice clean >> project overall! >> >> Thanks, >> Richard > > > Thanks Richard, looks good. If you submit it for review can you tag it with > the FedoraAudio tracker? I can review it for you. Will do. > I had been trying out the Qt Razor repo (really slick lightweight DE - all > cmake you'd be glad to know). There was talk of a Fedora spin none of it is > the Fedora repos as yet as yet. This looks neat. I'm currently using LXDE on my MythTV box to keep things lightweight but development seems to be very slow... > Your qastools is more complete going by the filelist. Not sure why. I didn't do anything special, just let 'make install' do it's work. Thanks, Richard -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On 04/17/2012 06:13 PM, Richard Shaw wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Brendan Jones wrote: Qastools is coming to Fedora soon which is Qt based [1]. It is also being used in the Qt Razor desktop which I hope will make it to Fedora someday [1] http://xwmw.org/qastools/ Try this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34775202/qastools/qastools-0.17.1-1.fc16.x86_64.rpm I love packaging cmake projects because they're a lot easier for me to fix if there's something wrong, but in this case all I had to do was patch a few desktop files for desktop-file-validate. Nice clean project overall! Thanks, Richard Thanks Richard, looks good. If you submit it for review can you tag it with the FedoraAudio tracker? I can review it for you. I had been trying out the Qt Razor repo (really slick lightweight DE - all cmake you'd be glad to know). There was talk of a Fedora spin none of it is the Fedora repos as yet as yet. Your qastools is more complete going by the filelist. [1] http://razor-qt.org/ Thanks Brendan -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Brendan Jones wrote: > Qastools is coming to Fedora soon which is Qt based [1]. It is also being > used in the Qt Razor desktop which I hope will make it to Fedora someday > > [1] http://xwmw.org/qastools/ Try this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34775202/qastools/qastools-0.17.1-1.fc16.x86_64.rpm I love packaging cmake projects because they're a lot easier for me to fix if there's something wrong, but in this case all I had to do was patch a few desktop files for desktop-file-validate. Nice clean project overall! Thanks, Richard -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Brendan Jones wrote: > Qastools is coming to Fedora soon which is Qt based [1]. It is also being > used in the Qt Razor desktop which I hope will make it to Fedora someday > > [1] http://xwmw.org/qastools/ Trying it out now. If I like it I'll submit a Review Request. Richard -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 14:36 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > now if there is only one volume control, how do I express that I > want to mute the microphone and set the line-in to some value? PA doesn't treat this as a question of volumes but a question of inputs, or, as GNOME volume control puts it, 'connectors'. On the Input tab of the GNOME volume control applet thingy, they show up as options in a drop-down list. You can pick one input source at a time. You pick an input source, then pick the volume for it. I don't know about the 'boost' case. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
You could try xfce4-mixer. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On 04/17/2012 04:54 PM, Richard Shaw wrote: I've been following this thread with interest so I did some searching and found alsamixergui which is UGLY. I also found gnome-alsamixer for Debian/Ubuntu. The upstream seems to be dead but Debian is keeping it going, probably from lack of an alternative. Between the SRPM from ATRPMs (Why is this not allowed in Fedora?), the newer sources and patches from Debian, and a hour stolen from work I've been able to cobble together a package that needs testing. I have tested it over X11 forwarding though... I've only built for F16 x86_64 so let me know if you need another release/arch. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34775202/gnome-alsamixer-0.9.7-1.fc16.x86_64.rpm Richard Qastools is coming to Fedora soon which is Qt based [1]. It is also being used in the Qt Razor desktop which I hope will make it to Fedora someday [1] http://xwmw.org/qastools/ -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
I've been following this thread with interest so I did some searching and found alsamixergui which is UGLY. I also found gnome-alsamixer for Debian/Ubuntu. The upstream seems to be dead but Debian is keeping it going, probably from lack of an alternative. Between the SRPM from ATRPMs (Why is this not allowed in Fedora?), the newer sources and patches from Debian, and a hour stolen from work I've been able to cobble together a package that needs testing. I have tested it over X11 forwarding though... I've only built for F16 x86_64 so let me know if you need another release/arch. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34775202/gnome-alsamixer-0.9.7-1.fc16.x86_64.rpm Richard -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
Dne Út 17. dubna 2012 07:25:49, Matthias Clasen napsal(a): > On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 12:04 +0100, Adam Williamson wrote: > > None of them would. PulseAudio is at a higher level than ALSA > > and does not actually provide any kind of interface > > (user-interfacing, or API) for controlling individual ALSA > > mixer channels as Jon wants to. It's not what PA is _for_. ok, what is PA _for_ then? (see below) > > PA's take is that if you want to control individual ALSA > > mixer channels, use an ALSA mixer. GNOME's take is they > > don't want to write an ALSA mixer. So if you want a > > graphical ALSA mixer...find one and use it. GNOME doesn't > > consider themselves to be in the business of providing one. > > Well put Adam, thanks. That being said, we certainly want to > provide enough control to let people use their sound cards. If > something is missing, by all means, let us know. But "I need > control on the level of " is not a very > concrete description of what our controls don't let you do... it doesn't do what the *mixer* is supposed to do - to *mix* various sources for example - most (?) cards have two external inputs - microphone and line-in now if there is only one volume control, how do I express that I want to mute the microphone and set the line-in to some value? what if the soundcard has a "boost" on/off switch which doesn't just amplify the microphone but it completely changes input characteristics from condenser mic to dynamic mic range? - how is this supposed to work with "one slider rule them all" type of control? K. -- Karel Volný QE BaseOs/Daemons Team Red Hat Czech, Brno tel. +420 532294274 (RH: +420 532294111 ext. 8262074) xmpp ka...@jabber.cz :: "Never attribute to malice what can :: easily be explained by stupidity." signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On 4/17/2012 7:25 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: Well put Adam, thanks. That being said, we certainly want to provide enough control to let people use their sound cards. If something is missing, by all means, let us know. But "I need control on the level of " is not a very concrete description of what our controls don't let you do... Well, let's see... Once recently the audio I was playing was being mixed with the audio being transmitted to others. E.g., if I had a music player going while using Skype, the people at the other end of the line could hear the music mixed directly into the audio they were getting (it was /not/ going through the microphone). I have no idea how things got into this state -- I certainly didn't configure them this way -- and the only way to fix it was through tweaking the ALSA channels. To get my microphone to work properly, I recently had to play with the "Front Mic" and "Front Mic Boost" channels in the ALSA mixer. Just tweaking the input volume slider in pulseaudio wasn't doing the job. I don't know why that is... I don't understand all the ins and outs of how my sound card or sound cards in general work, nor do I wish to. I just want to be able to make my system work properly. Those are two use cases I can think of right now; there are others that come up from time to time that I can't think of off the top of my head. If ALSA and pulseaudio worked better together, i.e., they were, between the two of them, smart enough to automatically DTRT with the low-level sound settings, then there would be no need for anyone but the real audiophiles to access those settings directly. But they /don't/ work perfectly together. If you just fixed all the glitches so that everything worked better out-of-the-box, I'd be perfectly happy never needing to run the ALSA mixer again. jik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 12:04 +0100, Adam Williamson wrote: > > None of them would. PulseAudio is at a higher level than ALSA and does > not actually provide any kind of interface (user-interfacing, or API) > for controlling individual ALSA mixer channels as Jon wants to. It's not > what PA is _for_. PA's take is that if you want to control individual > ALSA mixer channels, use an ALSA mixer. GNOME's take is they don't want > to write an ALSA mixer. So if you want a graphical ALSA mixer...find one > and use it. GNOME doesn't consider themselves to be in the business of > providing one. Well put Adam, thanks. That being said, we certainly want to provide enough control to let people use their sound cards. If something is missing, by all means, let us know. But "I need control on the level of " is not a very concrete description of what our controls don't let you do... -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Sun, 2012-04-15 at 19:48 -0600, Michal Jaegermann wrote: > On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 04:23:31PM -0400, Jonathan Kamens wrote: > > On 04/15/2012 04:27 PM, stan wrote: > > >A thought on this. I'm not that familiar with pulseaudio, but some of > > >these settings *are* available in the pavucontrol application. It is a > > >separate package you can install, called, strangely enough, pavucontrol. > > >There are other pulse control applications, and they might have more > > >adjustments, but I'm not familiar with them. > > I tried pavucontrol. I could not find any evidence that it had > > access to these settings. > > 'yum search pulse' shows, among many other things, these: > > paman.x86_64 : Management tool for PulseAudio > paprefs.x86_64 : Management tool for PulseAudio > pavumeter.x86_64 : Volume meter for PulseAudio > > Maybe some of these will do what you desire? None of them would. PulseAudio is at a higher level than ALSA and does not actually provide any kind of interface (user-interfacing, or API) for controlling individual ALSA mixer channels as Jon wants to. It's not what PA is _for_. PA's take is that if you want to control individual ALSA mixer channels, use an ALSA mixer. GNOME's take is they don't want to write an ALSA mixer. So if you want a graphical ALSA mixer...find one and use it. GNOME doesn't consider themselves to be in the business of providing one. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
Dne Ne 15. dubna 2012 12:26:21, stan napsal(a): > On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:27:26 -0400 > > Jonathan Kamens wrote: > > These are not esoteric settings that only audiophiles use. I > > have to tweak them/regularly/ to get my speakers, headset, > > and microphone to play nicely together, due to another bug, > > i.e., that Fedora doesn't seem to /remember/ my settings > > between logins / reboots. But even if > You should file a bugzilla for this. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id1475 -- Karel Volný QE BaseOs/Daemons Team Red Hat Czech, Brno tel. +420 532294274 (RH: +420 532294111 ext. 8262074) xmpp ka...@jabber.cz :: "Never attribute to malice what can :: easily be explained by stupidity." signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:23:31 -0400 Jonathan Kamens wrote: > On 04/15/2012 04:27 PM, stan wrote: > > A thought on this. I'm not that familiar with pulseaudio, but some > > of these settings *are* available in the pavucontrol application. > > It is a separate package you can install, called, strangely enough, > > pavucontrol. There are other pulse control applications, and they > > might have more adjustments, but I'm not familiar with them. > I tried pavucontrol. I could not find any evidence that it had access > to these settings. My mistake. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 13:35:31 -0700 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: > My particular requirement is to control the audio input selection, > mute, and level on an Asus Xonar sound card. The only thing > that I found able to control that is "gnome-control-center sound". > > Accordingly I have to create a launcher on my Xfce desktop. > > It would be nice if the ordering of audio devices were deterministic > instead of random. > You can do something like this, and the sound cards will always be assigned to the same card number at boot. $ cat /etc/modprobe.d/soundcard.conf options snd cards_limit=8 alias snd-card-0 snd-ck8s options snd-ck8s index=0 alias snd-card-1 snd-ice1724 options snd-ice1724 index=1 alias snd-card-2 snd-cmipci options snd_cmipci index=2 alias snd-card-7 snd-usb-audio options snd-usb-audio index=7 -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On 04/15/2012 09:48 PM, Michal Jaegermann wrote: 'yum search pulse' shows, among many other things, these: paman.x86_64 : Management tool for PulseAudio paprefs.x86_64 : Management tool for PulseAudio pavumeter.x86_64 : Volume meter for PulseAudio Maybe some of these will do what you desire? Not as far as I can tell. And in any case this begs the question of why one would have to install non-standard tools to access functionality that (a) people are likely to need to access and (b) was previously accessible using standard tools. (I understand that you are trying to be helpful and solve my particular problem for me, and I appreciate that, but since I can already solve my particular problem with alsamixer, as yucky as that is, I'm much more interested in the general problem that most users aren't going to be able to figure out how to modify their sound card settings.) jik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 04:23:31PM -0400, Jonathan Kamens wrote: > On 04/15/2012 04:27 PM, stan wrote: > >A thought on this. I'm not that familiar with pulseaudio, but some of > >these settings *are* available in the pavucontrol application. It is a > >separate package you can install, called, strangely enough, pavucontrol. > >There are other pulse control applications, and they might have more > >adjustments, but I'm not familiar with them. > I tried pavucontrol. I could not find any evidence that it had > access to these settings. 'yum search pulse' shows, among many other things, these: paman.x86_64 : Management tool for PulseAudio paprefs.x86_64 : Management tool for PulseAudio pavumeter.x86_64 : Volume meter for PulseAudio Maybe some of these will do what you desire? M. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
My particular requirement is to control the audio input selection, mute, and level on an Asus Xonar sound card. The only thing that I found able to control that is "gnome-control-center sound". Accordingly I have to create a launcher on my Xfce desktop. It would be nice if the ordering of audio devices were deterministic instead of random. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On 04/15/2012 04:27 PM, stan wrote: A thought on this. I'm not that familiar with pulseaudio, but some of these settings *are* available in the pavucontrol application. It is a separate package you can install, called, strangely enough, pavucontrol. There are other pulse control applications, and they might have more adjustments, but I'm not familiar with them. I tried pavucontrol. I could not find any evidence that it had access to these settings. jik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:27:26 -0400 Jonathan Kamens wrote: > I understand what you are saying, but you're missing the point. /It > should not be this hard/ to access detailed sound settings. If Fedora > is going to use pulseaudio, then pulseaudio needs to provide access > to these settings. A thought on this. I'm not that familiar with pulseaudio, but some of these settings *are* available in the pavucontrol application. It is a separate package you can install, called, strangely enough, pavucontrol. There are other pulse control applications, and they might have more adjustments, but I'm not familiar with them. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:27:26 -0400 Jonathan Kamens wrote: > These are not esoteric settings that only audiophiles use. I have to > tweak them/regularly/ to get my speakers, headset, and microphone to > play nicely together, due to another bug, i.e., that Fedora doesn't > seem to /remember/ my settings between logins / reboots. But even if You should file a bugzilla for this. By default, alsa is supposed to do this, and does on my system. If it doesn't on yours, that should be fixed. Go to the alsa-project website and use alsa-info.sh to put your hardware information into the ticket. http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Help_To_Debug > that bug weren't present and the settings were remembered, I would > still need to tweak them at least once to set them properly the first > time, and right now there's no way to do that through a GUI, whereas > there was before when gmixer was supported. That's simply an You could try the mixer app from xfce4-mixer package. It says it is for xfce4, and so might pull in some xfce dependencies, but it seems to give access to low level settings, on a quick run. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On 04/15/2012 06:27 PM, Jonathan Kamens wrote: I love a lot of things about Fedora, but one of the things I absolutely hate is its penchant for ripping out things that work and replacing them with things that don't have nearly the same functionality, perhaps with an amorphous functionality to restore the missing functionality at some time in the indeterminate future. In any case this is offtopic for this list. You can try raising this topic on the relevant mailing list for the *DE you use within the project. JBG -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On 04/15/2012 02:12 PM, stan wrote: On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:32:27 -0400 Jonathan Kamens wrote: In particular, I would like to be able to control things at this level: came through blank here http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/attachments/20120415/a0f1597e/attachment-0001.png Except (a) the alsamixer curses interface is hardly one that's easy for random users to find, and (b) even in alsamixer, I have to hit F6 and select my sound card before I see the level of granularity shown above. Use alsamixer -c You can find card numbers with aplay -l Once in alsamixer, F3 is playback, F4 is record, F5 is combined. For really detailed settings, install alsa-utils and use amixer. I understand what you are saying, but you're missing the point. /It should not be this hard/ to access detailed sound settings. If Fedora is going to use pulseaudio, then pulseaudio needs to provide access to these settings. These are not esoteric settings that only audiophiles use. I have to tweak them/regularly/ to get my speakers, headset, and microphone to play nicely together, due to another bug, i.e., that Fedora doesn't seem to /remember/ my settings between logins / reboots. But even if that bug weren't present and the settings were remembered, I would still need to tweak them at least once to set them properly the first time, and right now there's no way to do that through a GUI, whereas there was before when gmixer was supported. That's simply an unacceptable loss in basic functionality, which has been totally lost for at least two major releases now. I love a lot of things about Fedora, but one of the things I absolutely hate is its penchant for ripping out things that work and replacing them with things that don't have nearly the same functionality, perhaps with an amorphous functionality to restore the missing functionality at some time in the indeterminate future. jik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Inadequate sound device control
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:32:27 -0400 Jonathan Kamens wrote: > In particular, I would like to be able to control things at this > level: came through blank here > Except (a) the alsamixer curses interface is hardly one that's easy > for random users to find, and (b) even in alsamixer, I have to hit F6 > and select my sound card before I see the level of granularity shown > above. Use alsamixer -c You can find card numbers with aplay -l Once in alsamixer, F3 is playback, F4 is record, F5 is combined. For really detailed settings, install alsa-utils and use amixer. > In any case, instead of being able to adjust settings at that level, > the GNOME system settings give me a single output volume slider and a > single input volume slider. That is the interface to pulseaudio, its replacement for alsamixer. > Am I missing something? Is there a way to make the system settings > give me access to the whole shebang and I'm just missing it? Don't know the answer to this, have always adjusted alsa directly when necessary. -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Inadequate sound device control
I finally uninstalled the long-orphaned gmixer RPM when I upgraded to F17. I clung to gmixer for far longer than I should have because as far as I could tell, it was the only GUI which gave me granular access to sound settings. I've searched in F17 since uninstalling gmixer, and as far as I can tell gmixer is still the only GUI which gives granular access to sound settings. In particular, I would like to be able to control things at this level: Except (a) the alsamixer curses interface is hardly one that's easy for random users to find, and (b) even in alsamixer, I have to hit F6 and select my sound card before I see the level of granularity shown above. In any case, instead of being able to adjust settings at that level, the GNOME system settings give me a single output volume slider and a single input volume slider. Am I missing something? Is there a way to make the system settings give me access to the whole shebang and I'm just missing it? jik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
