[Texascavers] Another successful effort to protect the Edwards Aquifer :

[JerryAtkin]

Note:  Many cavers will recognize the  Annandale Ranch as a past caver 
destination in Uvalde County.
 
Aquifer will be a little  safer 
Web Posted: 07/10/2007 11:35 PM  CDT
Jerry  Needham
Express-News 
It took months for the surveyor to find all the old rock piles marking  
survey points on the huge Annandale family ranch, but paperwork finally was  
approved Tuesday that forever will protect the ranch from the urban development 
 
that's overrunning much of the recharge zone of the Edwards Aquifer. 
Trustees of the San Antonio Water System agreed in their monthly meeting to  
pay $4 million for a conservation easement on 7,553 acres of the ranch north 
of  Uvalde that has been owned by the same family for almost 120 years.  
The purchase makes 11,518 acres of the approximately 12,500-acre ranch  
protected under conservation easements — agreements that strictly limit future  
development. SAWS, the Edwards Aquifer Authority and the Nature Conservancy  
teamed up in 1999 to protect almost 4,000 acres of the ranch.  
"There's a tremendous amount of recharge occurring in this area, and that's  
recharge that's coming toward San Antonio," said Bruce Haby, SAWS corporate 
real  estate manager.  
"The ranch has 41/2 miles of frontage on the Frio River, but in an average  
year, water never makes it through the ranch" because it drops through the  
fractured limestone river bottom into the aquifer, he said.  
The appraised value of the latest easement was $6.4 million. The U.S.  
Environmental Protection Agency will pick up $1.74 million of the $4 million  
cost 
under a rare grant.  
"This is one of the biggest tracts acquired for a conservation easement for  
the Edwards Aquifer," SAWS trustee Douglas Leonhard said. "It's a huge  
accomplishment."  
Haby said it wasn't easy.  
"It's just unbelievable how long it took," he said. "The property hadn't been 
 surveyed in over 100 years, and they used to survey these off using leather  
chains. They didn't use metal pins as markers but piled up rocks."  
The agreement limits the number of houses that can be added to the few  
existing ranch homes and camps and how the property can be divided.  
Haby said the Annandale heirs — the Cofers and McQuowns — want it that way.  
"The heirs are very conservation-minded," he said. "They want it to be a  
family ranch. They want to be able to go back there forever."  
Haby said that since 1997, SAWS has spent $9.9 million to help protect about  
28,000 acres that drain into the Edwards Aquifer. But he said this is 
expected  to be SAWS' last aquifer protection land deal, because the city now 
has  
jurisdiction and voter approval to use sales tax money for such acquisitions.  
Although the area is not in immediate danger of being developed, it would be  
only a matter of time if protections aren't locked in, Haby said.  
"There's a golf course community development just north of Concan on the  
Frio," Haby said. "That whole area has exploded in growth. People want to be  
next to the river." 



** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Texascavers] another LED K2 flashlight

[David Locklear]

Energizer has added the K2 bulb to its latest line
of 3 watt flashlights.

Look at Home Depot. The flashlight package will
say something like 25 % brighter than than the other
LED and have the letters K2 on it somewhere.

Another interesting marketing ploy is they are now
advertising drop test figures on their flashlights.

The Energizer Hard Body LED ( with 2 AA ) gets a
30 foot drop test rating.

Their big handheld lantern with the K2 and 4 D size
batteries gets a 15 foot drop test rating.

David

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] a new cheap waterproof digital camera

[David Locklear]

Academy stores have a new camera for only $ 100
that is fully waterproof to 50 feet with a small flash.

The model is Cobra DC 5600.

Look for it in the section where the sell MP3 players.

A quick search on the web turned up nothing.

However, it looks like it is well worth $ 100.

The camera can be removed from the plastic housing when you don't
plan to get it wet.

David Locklear

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

RE: [Texascavers] About big cats

[Fritz Holt]

Sheryl, 
>From various reports over the last few years, mountain lion (Puma) are
becoming more prevalent all over Texas and in some areas of the state
that you would not believe. Bobcats are a different story. They are and
always have been heavily populated throughout our state. They are very
secretive and are primarily nocturnal. They are frequently caught in
coyote foot traps or killed by explosive poison traps. They will
probably never be endangered.
Fritz

-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net] 
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:08 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] About big cats


Big Cats 
  By: Gary Stewart  (Gadsden, Alabama) 
Gary Said:  

When we were in Colorado, around Salida, we wandered around the
mountains
quite a bit.  I recall being in an area where you could smell the big
cat.
I kept my little dog close and my gun handy, but we never saw anything.
You
can't mistake the smell, though.  Take a house cat's pee and multiply
that
times 100.  It is very strong.

There are still big cats in TX.  There is one south of San Antonio that
has
been killing some livestock.  It has been seen by several farmers there.
And, from what I understand, bobcats are still numerous in South Texas.

I in a small town, and we recently we had some havelinas show up in
Aransas
Pass. We have an alley behind our house and some number of acres of
woods
with houses scattered here and there.  Two small ones and one big one
came
up.  The two small ones were playing with our dogs.  Running up and down
the
fence and getting nose to nose with them.  They had a huge time for
about
half an hour.  I had never seen havelinas play with dogs before.  It was
strange.

Sheryl
  



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com




-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] About big cats

[Allan B. Cobb]

On one trip in Guatemala, we were staying in a very remote research camp. 
We were in a cluster of huts with a central courtyard way out in the jungle. 
I awoke early just as it was starting to get light.  I was in my bunk just 
looking out the window hoping to go back to sleep when a jaguarundi walked 
past my hut, through the courtyard, and continued on down the trail to 
spring.


I've seen bobcats around the hill country.  I used to have property out east 
of Austin near La Grange.  It was common to find mountain lion tracks around 
the creek and pond.  Big cats are around but they are often hard to see.


Allan 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

RE: [Texascavers] About big cats

[speleosteele]

Hi Mark,

Hey, thanks for reminding me of that.  When I set up that trip to Jester Cave, 
which is way out in the boonies of SW Oklahoma, the rancher told me that he 
thought a mountain lion was living in one of the 60 some entrances to the cave. 
 I said, "And what makes you think so?" to which he replied, "I found a half 
eaten deer carcass covered in grass, how's that?"  I agreed with his evidence.

Pete Lindsley and others got to the ranch and set up camp before we did.  Diana 
Tomchick and I arrived late at night, and not knowing exactly where Pete had 
camped, parked the truck and slept in the hard shell camper.  Remembering what 
the rancher had said about a big cat, we kept our little cocker spaniel in the 
back with us for the night. 

In the morning we saw where Pete and the others were camped about a 1/4 mile 
down the dirt ranch road from us and closer to the main cave entrance.  As we 
walked down to their camp we came across large cat scat right on top of one of 
Pete's truck tire tracks.  The kitty had been there sometime during the night 
and may well have been prowling around our camps.

Bil 

 mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: 
>  
> 
> Speaking of big cats,
> 
> I guess the closest we've ever been was on a trip to Jester Cave in SW
> OK with Pete Lindsley, Bill Steele, and Diane T.
> 
> We came across some mountain lion tracks on the road to one of the
> entrances and, I believe, we also saw some scat.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, y'all.
> 
> I have also seen bobcats at CBSP. 
> 
> Anyone know if there's anything bigger there? Seems like a great habitat
> for some larger felines.
> 
> 
> Good thread!
> 
> 
> Later,
> 
> Mark A.
> 
> 
> 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

RE: [Texascavers] About big cats

[Stefan Creaser]

This is a big cat:
 
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/bigcat2.asp
 
Cheers,

Stefan

 


-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.

RE: [Texascavers] About big cats

[mark . alman]

 

Speaking of big cats,

I guess the closest we've ever been was on a trip to Jester Cave in SW
OK with Pete Lindsley, Bill Steele, and Diane T.

We came across some mountain lion tracks on the road to one of the
entrances and, I believe, we also saw some scat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, y'all.

I have also seen bobcats at CBSP. 

Anyone know if there's anything bigger there? Seems like a great habitat
for some larger felines.


Good thread!


Later,

Mark A.

Re: [Texascavers] How Sotano del Tigre got its name

[DirtDoc]

I can certainly vouch for the fact the tigres did live in the vicinity of the 
sotano.  When we were there in the late 1960's with some Texas cavers, I, 
Sandy, Juan Piscado (his choice of mexicanized names, although he was 
definitely alive at the time), and Mary Fish were in the sotano.  Sandy and I 
came out first, tandem, with Sandy in the lead.  When she came to the lip, 
there was a quite full-grown tigre looking at her from less than 10 m.  Seemed 
closer to her. Both were quite startled.  Sandy was on rope and had few 
choices.  The tigre went up the wall like lightening and vacated the immediate 
entrance area.

DirtDoc.

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] RE: About big cats

[speleosteele]

Ah, I remembered another big cat incident.  Over the Christmas holidays 1974, I 
went to the El Abra range with other cavers.  We had to re-chop a caver trail 
and follow old and  mostly missing flagging tape in the regrown, thick 
vegetation.  I was the lead guy and really got into it, not giving up the lead 
all day long. 

We reached the Tanchipa (sp?) sink and rock shelter where we were going to camp 
before I realized that I was covered in tiny seed ticks.  They were especially 
bad around my waist.  I was in misery all night long, itching and scratching, 
watching the stars move slowly across the sky, longing for morning.  Then I 
heard something big and very close walking ever so stealthily in the jungle 
just a few feet away.  I kept my hand on my machete and concentrated on my 
sense of hearing.  I could just barely hear slow inhalations of breath, a low, 
barely audible growl.  I thought a the time that a big jaguar was checking us 
out.  In the morning we looked for tracks, but the jungle floor was all leaves 
and plants, and all we could see was that something big had been walking back 
and forth just a few feet from us.  

Bill 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] new AMCS pubs

[Bill Mixon]

The new AMCS pubs listed in the accompanying message, except the hardbound
version of the Activities Newsletter, will be available at the UT Grotto
meeting on Wednesday, July 18. (The hardbound is late and will be shipped by
the printer directly to the NSS convention, after which it will be available
at grotto meeting or by mail order.) -- Mixon
---
You may "Reply" to the address from which this message was sent,
but note the following permanent addresses for long-term use:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org, sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] new AMCS publications

[Bill Mixon]

This information may be freely copied to other interested e-mail lists.
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The Association for Mexican Cave Studies announces these new publications:

AMCS Activities Newsletter 30, for 2007, 166 pages. 17 pages of "Mexico
News," 20 articles. Softbound $14, hardbound $24.

AMCS Bulletin 18, Modelling the Groundwater Catchment of the Sian Ka'an
Reserve, Quintana Roo, by Bibi Ruth Neuman and Malene Louise Rahbek. A joint
M.Sc. thesis from Denmark. The wetlands in this reserve on the southern
Caribbean coast of Quintana Roo are fed by a karst aquifer and are at risk
of pollution. 209 pages, softbound. $15.

Association for Mexican Cave Studies Newsletter, vols 1-5, 1965-1977, new
reprint as PDF files on CD. This publication, a predecessor to the current
AMCS Activities Newsletter series, was published regularly in 1965 and 1966
and then sporadically. It contains much interesting information on early
Mexican caving, including the first caver visits to Huautla and Cuetzalan,
the discovery and first descent of Golondrinas, and caves and caving in the
Sierra de El Abra. Articles on biology, geology, and archaeology appear. The
PDF files contain a total of 885 regular pages, and there are 19
foldout-size maps. $3.

Additional info on these publications is or soon will be on our web site,
www.amcs-pubs.org. There you can find the tables of contents for the
Activities Newsletter and the bulletin and the abstract for the bulletin.
Order from AMCS, PO Box 7672, Austin, Texas 78713 or by e-mail and PayPal.
There is a PayPal button at the bottom of www.amcs-pubs.org/order.html. US
surface postage is $3 for first book or CD and $1 for each additional.
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Because the United States Postal Service no longer offers surface mail to
foreign destinations, we regret that we have to substantially increase our
shipping charges to addresses outside the US. The following table shows the
new airmail prices in US dollars.

 CanadaMexico  other
1 book$8.00  $10.00 $13.00
2 books   13.00   18.00   24.00
3 books   17.00   25.00  31.00
4-6 books21.00   27.00  35.00
additional  3.00 3.504.00  each
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The new publications and dozens of  others will be for sale at the AMCS
sales tables in the indoor-sales area at the coming NSS convention. Stop by
for a visit. AMCS people who would be willing to help out by working the
store for a few hours during the convention should talk to Bill Mixon.


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] super glues

[Bill Mixon]

Are any of those cyanoacrylate adhesives really waterproof? My experience is
that they fail when wet. I used some to fasten pieces of plastic to glass
windows on my truck camper-cap to make outside handles. The handles worked
just fine until it rained one night, during which they just fell off. I'm
curious because I've seen them recommended for repairing broken speleothems,
including, I believe, in the NSS cave conservation and restoration book.
Seems like a glue that isn't waterproof would not be much good for that. --
Mixon
---
You may "Reply" to the address from which this message was sent,
but note the following permanent addresses for long-term use:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org, sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] RE: About big cats

[Minton, Mark]

 I have seen two rare cats in Mexico.  On a trip to Sótano de Trinidad in 
the Xilitla area in the early '80s I was hiking with a guide and a couple of 
other cavers and we saw a small buff-colored cat the guide called an onza, 
which is ounce or lynx in English.  Another time in the '80s or '90s I was 
driving out of the Purificación mountains from Los San Pedro with Nancy Weaver 
and had just passed the last river crossing heading onto the flats when a 
jaguarundi crossed the road right in front of the truck.  The jaguarundi is a 
low, long black cat with a long tail.  Very cool.
 Although I have never seen a "tigre" (jaguar?) in the El Abra, there are 
many stories of them (and a cave named after one), and apparently Geoff Robertson saw one 
while he was lost for a few days there in the early '80s.  On my very first trip to 
northern Mexico in 1968 I climbed up a cliff into a small cave that had lots of bones and 
large tracks in it.  I think it was a mountain lion den, but fortunately no one was home 
to verify that presumption.

Mark Minton

RE: [Texascavers] RE: Dermabond Skin Glue

[Tim Kohtz]

I worked as a screen printer for number of years and would sometimes slice 
my finger cutting stencils or handling card stock. Super glue worked great, 
it kept all the solvents out when washing screens and everything seemed to 
heal faster. Sometimes out of convenience it becomes necessary not to wear 
gloves and my hands are prone to a tot of abuse and super glue is the shit.


Tim




From: "Fritz Holt" 
To: ,"Minton, Mark" 
CC: 
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Dermabond Skin Glue
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:51:43 -0500

It seems as if wearing gloves might be a better solution. This avoids
blisters and sunburned hands.
Geezer

-Original Message-
From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com [mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:51 AM
To: Minton, Mark
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Dermabond Skin Glue

When I rafted 225 miles of the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon
three years ago, I witnessed Utah caver and rafter Doug Powell applying
Super Glue to his nicked and slightly lacerated hands each morning
before we took to the river.  He rowed his own raft the whole way.

Bill

 "Minton wrote:
>   David Locklear said:
>
> >Do cavers carry super-glue in their cave-packs? Is DermaBond Skin
Glue something you can get without a prescription.
>
>   Surgical skin glue has been around for a long time.  I think it
first came out during the Vietnam war for emergency use on the
battlefield.  That was one of the first uses of "super glue"
(cyanoacrylate).    I have
indeed heard of people using super glue to close wounds in an emergency,
but I have not seen it done in a cave.  The medical variety is slightly
different from the home adhesive, but the latter would work in a pinch.
>
> Mark Minton


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com




-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



_
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] How Sotano del Tigre got its name

[speleosteele]

Who on here can tell the story of how Sotano del Tigre got it's name?  I love 
that story.

Bill 

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] book review

[Bill Mixon]

Hypogene Speleogenesis: Hydrogeological and Morphogenetic Perspective.
Alexander Klimchouk. National Cave and Karst Research Institute, Carlsbad,
New Mexico; 2007. ISBN 978-0-9795422-0-6. 8.5 by 11 inches, 106 pages,
softbound. Special Paper number 1. $35.

Alexander Klimchouk, a Ukrainian cave scientist and honorary member of the
National Speleological Society, wrote this book during a year-long visit to
the United States under the auspices of NCKRI. It summarizes the author's
thoughts on what I consider two related topics: hypogene speleogenesis by
water, heated or charged with CO2 or H2S from deep sources, rising from the
depths, and speleogenesis by artesian water, even local rainwater, that is
passing upward from one aquifer to another through a soluble bed. An example
of the first is 480-meter-deep Lechuguilla Cave in New Mexico, and classic
examples of the second are the long Ukrainian maze caves formed in a
15-meter-thick layer of gypsum. The author considers all these to be
hypogene caves because water moving upward was principally responsible for
their development, and they do share some morphological properties, such as
mazy passages that dead-end horizontally and ceiling cupolas that served as
outlets. Members of the first class tend to be vertically extensive, with
disorganized-appearing rounded rooms and domes, whereas members of the
second tend to be compact, dense horizontal mazes of passages formed along
joints or fractures by "confined transverse speleogenesis"-confined between
the upper and lower aquifers. Klimchouk believes that the caves in the Guads
also formed in a confining paleo-environment.

Besides the Guadalupe Mountains caves, which get the most space, and the
giant gypsum caves of the Ukraine, numerous other examples of hypogenic
caves around the world are described, illustrating the importance of this
sort of speleogenesis, which has only relatively recently been recognized as
an important alternative to epigenic caves, formed by descending rainwater
gathering into underground streams.

Sixteen pages of color photos illustrate features of hypogenic caves, but
there is very little actual color in them, and they could have been more
usefully and economically printed in black-and-white at the appropriate
places in the text. The English in the book is quite good, but it would get
a low score from the sorts of programs that compute readability. It is dense
with long words and complicated sentences, and a careful reading will
require the patience to parse, after supplying the missing commas, sentences
like, "Besides major sedimentological heterogeneities in the vertical
section, such as alternating prominent beds of contrasting lithologies which
determine the principal hydrostratigraphy in a basin depositional
environments and facies changes within an otherwise 'homogeneous' soluble
formation play an important role in determining the secondary porosity and
permeability distribution and their subsequent evolution through burial
diagenesis and tectonism." Fortunately, a less than careful reading,
assisted by the many clear diagrams, will get the main points across. While
numerous articles and chapters have been written about hypogene
speleogenesis, Hypogene Speleogenesis is the first book to cover the whole
topic at length, and it is an important contribution to cave geology.-Bill
Mixon

---
You may "Reply" to the address from which this message was sent,
but note the following permanent addresses for long-term use:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org, sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] About big cats

[Allan B. Cobb]

I was on a friend's ranch south of Sonora a few years ago.  It was dusk and 
we just arrived at the ranch and went through the gate.  Two deer ran across 
the road about 30 feet in front of us.  My friend stopped and pulled out a 
spotlight so we could spotlight deer on the way up to the house (no, we 
weren't hunting!).  Just as we started to move forward, a mountain lion 
walked out onto the road as the same trail the deer were on.  The mountain 
lion stopped in the road and looked at us, twitched its long tail, and 
continued on after the deer.


Another time, in Belize, we walked up to a large cave entrance (part of the 
Caves Branch Cave system).  The entrance has a large sandbar as it takes 
water in the rainy season.  A single set of jaguar prints lead across the 
sandbar into the cave.  We walked into the cave back to a lake.  We heard 
movement on the other side of the lake and then the low grunting that 
jaguars do.  Then, we heard splashing in the water and decided that it would 
be best to leave the cave as we were between the entrance and the jaguar. 
We never saw it and that might have been a good thing.


Yet another time, I was in Guatemala near the Usamacinta River.  It was 
early morning and one of our guides and I were hiking over to a nearby Army 
base from our camp to ask about caves.  We came to place on the trail where 
my guide pointed out fresh jaguar tracks on the trail.  As we round the next 
bend in the trail, my guide stopped and motioned to me to be quiet.  That is 
when I heard that we were very close to a jaguar.  The jaguar was sleeping 
somewhere just off the trail and it was snoring!  You could smell the cat 
and my guide whispered to me to walk quietly and move on down the trail.  I 
never saw that one but didn't want to wake it up.


Other times in Guatemala, when returning on a trail from a cave, we have 
seen jaguar tracks on top of our tracks we made on the way to the cave that 
morning.  I've yet to see a jaguar but I know I have been close and they 
have followed me.  I always have the thought of finding a jaguar in the back 
of my mind when I check out caves.  Mexico and Central America has lots of 
caves named Cueva de Tigre.  The day I find a cave with a jaguar in it is 
the day I finally use the name Cueva CON Tigre!


Allan 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] About big cats

[Jack Wood]

With convention just around the corner, I thought I share this tid-bit
on the native wildlife in southern Indiana. Now my pioneer ancestors,
saw fit to hunt the wolf, bear, lynx and the puma to extinction, not
near extinction but down right eradicated them from the state of
Indiana. One hasn't been sighted since the late 1800's. I however,
would welcome them back, especially here in the city where they might
help with the rampant gang problem. Anyway... there are the
occasionally bob-cat reports and rattle snakes were better at hiding
too during this time of extermination.  With this in mind and my
general confinement to the concrete jungles of urban Chicago, I will
occasionally escape to southern Indiana for hiking, camping and caving.
Once while poking around in a bed-rock edged ravine out in the Hoosier
National forest I came across a hole in the rocks with feathers and
other bric-a-brac of dead things, when a horrible and blood curdling
hiss emanated from the whole. Leaping back, thinking that Mr. Bobcat
was home, I caught a glimpse of the snowy-white fluff-covered vulture
chick that was tucked away in the alcove.

Another wild-life encounter, and the center of why I hate established
campgrounds relates to the following: Some fellow cavers and I were
camped at Spring Mill near Mitchell, IN one weekend. One had brought
his small and squat black dog and would generally hang out under a
table waiting for food to be dropped. This was a habit at home and the
dog followed it there in the wilds of tent camping site 14-north. So as
I stood at the table fixing a bagel, the dog was busy chewing on
something that had been dropped previously. I was unconcerned until I
saw the dog sleeping over by the tents. At this point, doubting the dog
had cracked some theory of quantum mechanics and was both under the
table and sleeping at the tent I rechecked my observations. Dog by tent
- check. At this point, I re-observed the dog's doppelganger and
noticed what I failed to see before: a white strip. Adrenaline kicked
in and picked the flight option, leaping backward I screamed "skunk".
This reaction is much better than a later skunk encounter, where my
sister shot back hollering "squirrel". Granted that was in Colorado,
may be she knew something I'd missed in my encounters with rodents of
North America but she knew it was a skunk and was at a loss for a
better, more apt word.


--- Bill Bentley  wrote:

> Summer 1993 Midnight Canyon in Carlsbad Caverns National Park.
> I once poked a stick in a crevice where I saw bird feathers near.
> There was
> a really loud hissing noise coming out of the small cave crack. Later
> I
> found out that mountain lions or wildcats have been reported in that
> area.
> Reflections laterProbably on the long list of stupid things you
> do in
> your life...
> Bill



 - Jack Wood 

University of Illinois at Chicago
Earth and Environmental Sciences Department
845 W. Taylor Ave. (M/C 186)
Chicago, IL 60607
(312) 413-9695





   

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. 
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

RE: [Texascavers] About big cats

[Sheryl Rieck]

Big Cats 
  By: Gary Stewart  (Gadsden, Alabama) 
Gary Said:  

When we were in Colorado, around Salida, we wandered around the mountains
quite a bit.  I recall being in an area where you could smell the big cat.
I kept my little dog close and my gun handy, but we never saw anything.  You
can't mistake the smell, though.  Take a house cat's pee and multiply that
times 100.  It is very strong.

There are still big cats in TX.  There is one south of San Antonio that has
been killing some livestock.  It has been seen by several farmers there.
And, from what I understand, bobcats are still numerous in South Texas.

I in a small town, and we recently we had some havelinas show up in Aransas
Pass. We have an alley behind our house and some number of acres of woods
with houses scattered here and there.  Two small ones and one big one came
up.  The two small ones were playing with our dogs.  Running up and down the
fence and getting nose to nose with them.  They had a huge time for about
half an hour.  I had never seen havelinas play with dogs before.  It was
strange.

Sheryl
  



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] About big cats

[speleosteele]

Driving back from caving in southern Mexico in the late 80s, everyone was 
asleep but me, and I was driving my VW van.  About 100 km. south of Reynosa a 
large mountain lion trotted across the road right in front of me.  I couldn't 
believe how long its tail was.  No one else saw it.

Caving on Silvertip Mountain, Montana one time, in the Bob Marshall Wilderness 
Area, I found a small cave at the base of a short cliff face.  It smelled 
strong of unine.  I crawled in, making plenty of noise.  Not hearing anything, 
I continued, crawling past bowl-shaped depressions full of hair.  I made more 
noise.  In another 25 feet I came to a well used nest of hair and cat fluff, 
with good air flow coming up through it.  So I dug it open, squeezed through, 
and found a couple hundred feet of cave on the other side.  

As I returned to the entrance I wondered if the big cat whose home I had 
disturbed had come home and scared off my friends who were waiting at the 
entrance.  All went fine.

Bill


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] About big cats

[Bill Bentley]

Summer 1993 Midnight Canyon in Carlsbad Caverns National Park.
I once poked a stick in a crevice where I saw bird feathers near. There was
a really loud hissing noise coming out of the small cave crack. Later I
found out that mountain lions or wildcats have been reported in that area.
Reflections laterProbably on the long list of stupid things you do in
your life...
Bill
- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] About big cats


> From TagNet:
>
> Big Cats
>   By: Gary Stewart  (Gadsden, Alabama)
>
> I wanted to comment on the big cat story I just read and relate some of
> my experiences. The only mountain lion encounter I have had was in
> Steele, Alabama west of Gadsden in 1979. There was a cattleman in that
> area thet was offering a $1000.00 dollar reward for the killing of a
> "black panther' that had been killing his cattle. Myself and 2 friends
> decided we would try to collect on the bounty since we were young and
> stupid and I had just returned from overseas in the Navy and need the
> money. We were several miles up into an area and new we were close
> because you could smell where it had marked its territory. We went up
> into a boxed canyon with very steep (200 ft +/-) walls on both sides.We
> never could see the cat but when it let out a cry it made the hair on
> the back of our necks stand up. It was at this point that we decided
> that we had made a serious mistake and got the hell out of there. I
> moved to Texas in 1981 and worked as a test technician for a turbine
> company. I lived in Tomball just north of Houston way out in the middle
> of nowhere in a trailor. When I came in from work one day the pit bull
> Nasty was raising hell barking. As I got out of the car and went to go
> inside I looked up and he had treed a mountain lion in a big pine tree
> next to the trailor. I freaked out and went inside and all I could find
> was a loaded 10 gauge goose gun. I ran outside and raised the shotgun
> and just as I shot it leapt from the tree and I have never seen anything
> move that fast as it took off. I went to work the next day and was
> telling everyone and they all said I was crazy and accused me of being
> on drugs and seeing things. It was sighted again a few months later at a
> farm down the road from me and shot at by and old guy who also missed
> from about 200 yards away. I still don't think anyone ever really
> beleived me though. When I move back to Alabama I went through a divorce
> and went back to college and got another degree. I went to work for TVA
> in 1987 and lived on Hwy.117 leaving Stevenson Al. in the Coon Creek
> Preserve. My kids were only about 5 or 6 at the time and were playing
> out in the yard when I looked out the kitchen window and there was a
> large bobcat coming straight at them from across the field. I ran and
> got my 357 pistol and ran outside and shot and hit next to it from about
> 40 yards away and it took off, scared me to death. I lived in Stevenson
> for 8 years and in Skyline for 4 and spent alot of time in the mountains
> and saw quite a few bobcats and cayotes and one wolf I think. I saw some
> kind of a mountain cat once and I'm not real sure what it was but it
> wasn't much bigger than a house cat but colored like a mt.lion. My son
> even ran over a 8 foot alligator in the road going down the backside of
> the mountain from Skyline toward Neversink near some old catfish ponds.
> It was in the Scottsboro paper and I still have the picture somewhere
> for those who choose to dis-beleive. I have also been chased and treed
> by wild hogs on several occasions and have a couple of scares from those
> encounters too running through a barbed wire fence and briars.We even
> lassoed one with a caving rope and tied in to a tree, God's truth. I
> have had many encounters with big rattlesnakes (eg. Walls of Jercho) and
> have several skins to prove that too. My point is if you get out way up
> in the mountains away from civilization you might run into alot of
> things you don't see anywhere else on a normal basis. I always take my
> Glock with me when I get way out like that but it's really for
> protection only. I have had more problems from rogue hunting club
> members around the Big and Little Coon and Martin Wildlife areas ( eg.
> Iron Hoop, Bluff River) than I have form the 4 legged and no legged
> predators.Those guys are really crazy!!!, but those are stories of there
> on. They just take there hunting leases very serious there even when
> it's not hunting season. Look out and read the signs cause they like to
> ask if you can read at gunpoint. Yes I'm still crazy after all these
> years. As always cave friendly and leave nothing but tracks in the mud.
> NSS 38127 Gary Stewart stewar...@aol.com
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> 

[Texascavers] About big cats

[speleosteele]

>From TagNet:

Big Cats 
  By: Gary Stewart  (Gadsden, Alabama) 

I wanted to comment on the big cat story I just read and relate some of 
my experiences. The only mountain lion encounter I have had was in 
Steele, Alabama west of Gadsden in 1979. There was a cattleman in that 
area thet was offering a $1000.00 dollar reward for the killing of a 
"black panther' that had been killing his cattle. Myself and 2 friends 
decided we would try to collect on the bounty since we were young and 
stupid and I had just returned from overseas in the Navy and need the 
money. We were several miles up into an area and new we were close 
because you could smell where it had marked its territory. We went up 
into a boxed canyon with very steep (200 ft +/-) walls on both sides.We 
never could see the cat but when it let out a cry it made the hair on 
the back of our necks stand up. It was at this point that we decided 
that we had made a serious mistake and got the hell out of there. I 
moved to Texas in 1981 and worked as a test technician for a turbine 
company. I lived in Tomball just north of Houston way out in the middle 
of nowhere in a trailor. When I came in from work one day the pit bull 
Nasty was raising hell barking. As I got out of the car and went to go 
inside I looked up and he had treed a mountain lion in a big pine tree 
next to the trailor. I freaked out and went inside and all I could find 
was a loaded 10 gauge goose gun. I ran outside and raised the shotgun 
and just as I shot it leapt from the tree and I have never seen anything 
move that fast as it took off. I went to work the next day and was 
telling everyone and they all said I was crazy and accused me of being 
on drugs and seeing things. It was sighted again a few months later at a 
farm down the road from me and shot at by and old guy who also missed 
from about 200 yards away. I still don't think anyone ever really 
beleived me though. When I move back to Alabama I went through a divorce 
and went back to college and got another degree. I went to work for TVA 
in 1987 and lived on Hwy.117 leaving Stevenson Al. in the Coon Creek 
Preserve. My kids were only about 5 or 6 at the time and were playing 
out in the yard when I looked out the kitchen window and there was a 
large bobcat coming straight at them from across the field. I ran and 
got my 357 pistol and ran outside and shot and hit next to it from about 
40 yards away and it took off, scared me to death. I lived in Stevenson 
for 8 years and in Skyline for 4 and spent alot of time in the mountains 
and saw quite a few bobcats and cayotes and one wolf I think. I saw some 
kind of a mountain cat once and I'm not real sure what it was but it 
wasn't much bigger than a house cat but colored like a mt.lion. My son 
even ran over a 8 foot alligator in the road going down the backside of 
the mountain from Skyline toward Neversink near some old catfish ponds. 
It was in the Scottsboro paper and I still have the picture somewhere 
for those who choose to dis-beleive. I have also been chased and treed 
by wild hogs on several occasions and have a couple of scares from those 
encounters too running through a barbed wire fence and briars.We even 
lassoed one with a caving rope and tied in to a tree, God's truth. I 
have had many encounters with big rattlesnakes (eg. Walls of Jercho) and 
have several skins to prove that too. My point is if you get out way up 
in the mountains away from civilization you might run into alot of 
things you don't see anywhere else on a normal basis. I always take my 
Glock with me when I get way out like that but it's really for 
protection only. I have had more problems from rogue hunting club 
members around the Big and Little Coon and Martin Wildlife areas ( eg. 
Iron Hoop, Bluff River) than I have form the 4 legged and no legged 
predators.Those guys are really crazy!!!, but those are stories of there 
on. They just take there hunting leases very serious there even when 
it's not hunting season. Look out and read the signs cause they like to 
ask if you can read at gunpoint. Yes I'm still crazy after all these 
years. As always cave friendly and leave nothing but tracks in the mud. 
NSS 38127 Gary Stewart stewar...@aol.com 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com