Re: [Texascavers] OT: First Annual Conference of Creation Geologists
I think the main problem with creation science is the question, "What is a day to God?" Surely it is not one diurnal rotation of this utterly insignificant little blue green planet. That at least would solve the timescale problems. They need to get God out of the little box they have created for Him. Corky Louise Power wrote: Gregg wrote: /"The root problem of Creationism is not bad science, it's bad interpretation of Scripture and bad knowledge of their own religion." / _Personal opinion:_ Creationism has a lot more problems than just "bad science." But the "bad interpretation of scripture" makes me wonder just which scripture is it that you're talking about. Most scripture was written decades if not millenia after the events supposedly happened, by a variety of authors, in a variety of languages which have been translated, retranslated and reinterpreted for millenia. Then there are the books dropped so that the ones that remained conformed to someone's idea of what was religio-politically (my own word/description) correct. So which of these are they misinterpreting? The latest one in English? Hebrew? Sanskrit? Aramaic? Frankly, I don't think most people know enough about these miscellaneous books which have been thrown together to make any kind of valid interpretation. Or base a religion on. > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:02:15 -0600 > From: iar...@io.com > CC: texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT: First Annual Conference of Creation Geologists > > The size of Noah's Ark: > > So, does it strike anyone else as funny that these people would stand > against the tide and insist the Bible tells them exactly how old the > Earth is, but then not pay attention to the dimensions of the Ark given > in Genesis? Or are they going on and on about the length of Noah's > Wife's arm? (I'm actually kind of serious. The root problem of > Creationism is not bad science, it's bad interpretation of Scripture and > bad knowledge of their own religion.) > > I suppose caves were all made in the flood too, right? Isn't that how > it goes? Think of all those poor prehistoric bats that were buried when > the flood filled (oops, we don't have caves yet. . . anyway. . . ) with > water because the sons o' God just had to come down and do the nasty > with some girls and make some giants. . . Seems a little wasteful, > doesn't it. . . > > But right, these are the same folks that usually side with parties and > systems that rape the environment all the time anyway. So it's all in > kind. . . > > Creationism is not as much off-topic as we all would like it to be. > > (End of rant.) > > > Gregg > > > John P Brooks wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone else saw the article on the first annual > > gathering of Creation Geologists in last weeks New York Times > > Magazine? Great reading. An interesting and dramatic account of the > > first conference of creation geologists as they struggle through the > > perplexing geologic questions of the daysuch as "how did the Grand > > Canyon form?", "how did fossils get layered so consistently?" ( It had > > to do with thier distance from the sea shore when Noahs flood hit) and > > my favorite topic; "how big was Noahs Ark?". > > Particularly poignant was an account of the geologists on a field trip > > picking up fossils and pocketing them in a state park ( what about > > thou shall not steal? )and the young son of one of the leaders of > > the group asked "how did all these fossils get here?"to which his > > dad answered "the flood brought them here". Someone should tell that > > kid that parents always lie; Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth > > Fairy, and now a big world encompassing flood that leave deposits of > > fossils in an Ohio State Park. Amazing. God help us all. > > > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.9/1155 - Release Date: 11/27/2007 8:30 PM - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re:[Texascavers] OT license plates
www.publicdata.comis what i have used before. there is a fee. puppy =:-) -Original Message- From: Nico Escamilla Sent: November 28, 2007 9:43:00 PM GMT To: Texas Cavers List Subject: [Texascavers] OT license plates Is there a way in TX to find out who the owner of a trailer is if I have the license plate number? I thought of asking a cop but maybe they dont give out that kind of info, I might be wrong. Thanks in advance Nico - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] OT license plates
Is there a way in TX to find out who the owner of a trailer is if I have the license plate number? I thought of asking a cop but maybe they dont give out that kind of info, I might be wrong. Thanks in advance Nico
[Texascavers] The Dudley Caving Club, Staffordshire, England
I ran across this site while I was doing some family history research on sites about the Staffordshire area. Thought it might be interesting to see something from across the pond. In addition to being an all-round good site, they've got some really great pics on the site. http://www.dudleycavingclub.org.uk/ They started out as a cave rescue organization.
RE: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character
Maybe. This has been 40 yrs ago and I was in my very early 20s at the time. Who remembers what they did wa-a-a-a-y back then? You know what they say, If you can remember the 60s, you probably weren't there. Lots of beer, scotch, etc down the old hatch between then and now. But I do remember the goat and Tom's straw hat.Louise List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:31:16 -0600From: fholt@townandcountryins.comTo: power_lou...@hotmail.com; rdmilhol...@charter.net; gschin...@mindspring.com; texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character Louise, Are you sure that this goat wasn’t the mayor of Lajitas who held court at The Trading Post? Fritz From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:12 AMTo: RD Milhollin; Geary Schindel; texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character I'm not sure when this discussion between Blair (whom I met when I lived in Houston) and Dwight (whom I've known since my active days on the NSS Conservation Committee) took place, but it reminds me of my first trip to Terlingua back in the early 60s with Mills Tandy, Tom White and a bunch of other people. I was at UT in those days and the bunch of us went on a camping trip to BBNP. At the end of the first day, a bunch of us hot, tired hiker/campers stopped in at the store in Terlingua for a cold "beveridge." There was a goat in residence at the store at that time and, as we sat down on the front porch to imbibe, the goat sneaked up behind Tom White and started munching on his straw hat. I think he'd already taken a big bite out of it before Tom realized what was happening. Same goat? Who knows. Depends on when this incident with Dwight took place.> From: rdmilhol...@charter.net> To: gschin...@mindspring.com; texascavers@texascavers.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:57:41 -0600> Subject: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character> > I was passing through El Paso the other night as well, though I did stop.> > On the way back I was trying to find a listenable radio station and stumbled> onto 93.5 FM, which was probably broadcast from Alpine or somewhere else.> The program on was pre-recorded, and was an interview with Texas> photographer Blair Pitman. This was at about 9:00 CDT Monday, November 26.> The host was a guy named John Glendennie (your spelling may vary) and he> sounded English, but Blair came through loud and long as a Texan, even> though he stated he has only been here since age 6.> > The part of the interview I heard did not have any caving references. He> mentioned working for the Houston newspaper, spending years documenting the> Big Thicket before it was a Park, and that in fact the National Geographic> article that featured his photographs may have been very influential in> having the land designated by the Feds. He went on talking about his time> photographing celebrities; the story about getting drunk with Arthur Fiedler> after (after, right!?) a Houston Symphony concert, scotch of course, was> especially memorable. The guy with no shirt in the Thicket who invited him> in for coffee was cool as well. He was talking about a book he wrote called> "Tales from the Porch" and originating from Terilingua, and one of the tales> included was the oft repeated experience of Dwight Deal, "Dirt Doc" that> Blair titled "Get Your Goat" involving alcohol, a camp fire, a deep mine, a> beer can, a railroad tie, and the afore mentioned goat.> > Blair came across as highly conversational, a little ornery, and very> interested in people and Nature. Does anyone know about whether this> interview is available on recorded media? A copy should be on file with the> TSS at a minimum. I am sure more of the interview was broadcast before of> later and most likely included caving tales.> > -Original Message-> From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@mindspring.com]> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:44 PM> To: texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso> > > While spending last night in El Paso, I heard an interesting rumor. Seems> that many people take the name El Paso literally and pass through El Paso on> their way to other destinations. I was told that the El Paso Tourism> Bureau was lobbying the city council to have the name of the town changed> from El Paso to El Stoppo to try and get more tourists visiting.> > Now that's funny> > Geary> > > > - Original Message -> From: "Geary Schindel" > To: "Gill Ediger" ; > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:57 PM> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TG> > > > Graham, Aspen, Sue and I were visiting Lee's Ferry in Arizona on> Thanksgiving Day looking at the put in point for the Grand Canyon of the> Colorado, admiring the scenery, and checking out the geology. I always> wanted to visit this site and will some day do the canyon. Graham is> fin
RE: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character
Louise, Are you sure that this goat wasn't the mayor of Lajitas who held court at The Trading Post? Fritz _ From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:12 AM To: RD Milhollin; Geary Schindel; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character I'm not sure when this discussion between Blair (whom I met when I lived in Houston) and Dwight (whom I've known since my active days on the NSS Conservation Committee) took place, but it reminds me of my first trip to Terlingua back in the early 60s with Mills Tandy, Tom White and a bunch of other people. I was at UT in those days and the bunch of us went on a camping trip to BBNP. At the end of the first day, a bunch of us hot, tired hiker/campers stopped in at the store in Terlingua for a cold "beveridge." There was a goat in residence at the store at that time and, as we sat down on the front porch to imbibe, the goat sneaked up behind Tom White and started munching on his straw hat. I think he'd already taken a big bite out of it before Tom realized what was happening. Same goat? Who knows. Depends on when this incident with Dwight took place. > From: rdmilhol...@charter.net > To: gschin...@mindspring.com; texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:57:41 -0600 > Subject: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character > > I was passing through El Paso the other night as well, though I did stop. > > On the way back I was trying to find a listenable radio station and stumbled > onto 93.5 FM, which was probably broadcast from Alpine or somewhere else. > The program on was pre-recorded, and was an interview with Texas > photographer Blair Pitman. This was at about 9:00 CDT Monday, November 26. > The host was a guy named John Glendennie (your spelling may vary) and he > sounded English, but Blair came through loud and long as a Texan, even > though he stated he has only been here since age 6. > > The part of the interview I heard did not have any caving references. He > mentioned working for the Houston newspaper, spending years documenting the > Big Thicket before it was a Park, and that in fact the National Geographic > article that featured his photographs may have been very influential in > having the land designated by the Feds. He went on talking about his time > photographing celebrities; the story about getting drunk with Arthur Fiedler > after (after, right!?) a Houston Symphony concert, scotch of course, was > especially memorable. The guy with no shirt in the Thicket who invited him > in for coffee was cool as well. He was talking about a book he wrote called > "Tales from the Porch" and originating from Terilingua, and one of the tales > included was the oft repeated experience of Dwight Deal, "Dirt Doc" that > Blair titled "Get Your Goat" involving alcohol, a camp fire, a deep mine, a > beer can, a railroad tie, and the afore mentioned goat. > > Blair came across as highly conversational, a little ornery, and very > interested in people and Nature. Does anyone know about whether this > interview is available on recorded media? A copy should be on file with the > TSS at a minimum. I am sure more of the interview was broadcast before of > later and most likely included caving tales. > > -Original Message- > From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@mindspring.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:44 PM > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso > > > While spending last night in El Paso, I heard an interesting rumor. Seems > that many people take the name El Paso literally and pass through El Paso on > their way to other destinations. I was told that the El Paso Tourism > Bureau was lobbying the city council to have the name of the town changed > from El Paso to El Stoppo to try and get more tourists visiting. > > Now that's funny > > Geary > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Geary Schindel" > To: "Gill Ediger" ; > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:57 PM > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TG > > > > Graham, Aspen, Sue and I were visiting Lee's Ferry in Arizona on > Thanksgiving Day looking at the put in point for the Grand Canyon of the > Colorado, admiring the scenery, and checking out the geology. I always > wanted to visit this site and will some day do the canyon. Graham is > finishing up his first semester at Northern Arizona University and > enjoying Flagstaff. > > That evening, we went to Page, Arizona where the only place open on > Thanksgiving Day to eat was Denny's Restaurant. We had a nice quite and > relatively untraditional Thanksgiving meal. I found it interesting that > more than 300 years after the first Thanksgiving, here we sat being > served by a nice Navaho woman. > > On Friday, we visited Antelope slot canyon out side of Page. This is a > very fine but short slot canyon in the Navaho Sandstone then toured the > Glen Canyon Dam. > > We left Flagstaff t
RE: [Texascavers] OT: First Annual Conference of Creation Geologists
Gregg wrote: "The root problem of Creationism is not bad science, it's bad interpretation of Scripture and bad knowledge of their own religion."Personal opinion: Creationism has a lot more problems than just "bad science." But the "bad interpretation of scripture" makes me wonder just which scripture is it that you're talking about. Most scripture was written decades if not millenia after the events supposedly happened, by a variety of authors, in a variety of languages which have been translated, retranslated and reinterpreted for millenia. Then there are the books dropped so that the ones that remained conformed to someone's idea of what was religio-politically (my own word/description) correct. So which of these are they misinterpreting? The latest one in English? Hebrew? Sanskrit? Aramaic? Frankly, I don't think most people know enough about these miscellaneous books which have been thrown together to make any kind of valid interpretation. Or base a religion on. > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:02:15 -0600> From: iar...@io.com> CC: > texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT: First Annual > Conference of Creation Geologists> > The size of Noah's Ark:> > So, does it > strike anyone else as funny that these people would stand > against the tide > and insist the Bible tells them exactly how old the > Earth is, but then not > pay attention to the dimensions of the Ark given > in Genesis? Or are they > going on and on about the length of Noah's > Wife's arm? (I'm actually kind > of serious. The root problem of > Creationism is not bad science, it's bad > interpretation of Scripture and > bad knowledge of their own religion.)> > I > suppose caves were all made in the flood too, right? Isn't that how > it > goes? Think of all those poor prehistoric bats that were buried when > the > flood filled (oops, we don't have caves yet. . . anyway. . . ) with > water > because the sons o' God just had to come down and do the nasty > with some > girls and make some giants. . . Seems a little wasteful, > doesn't it. . .> > > But right, these are the same folks that usually side with parties and > > systems that rape the environment all the time anyway. So it's all in > kind. > . .> > Creationism is not as much off-topic as we all would like it to be.> > > (End of rant.)> > > Gregg> > > John P Brooks wrote:> > I was wondering if > anyone else saw the article on the first annual > > gathering of Creation > Geologists in last weeks New York Times > > Magazine? Great reading. An > interesting and dramatic account of the > > first conference of creation > geologists as they struggle through the > > perplexing geologic questions of > the daysuch as "how did the Grand > > Canyon form?", "how did fossils get > layered so consistently?" ( It had > > to do with thier distance from the sea > shore when Noahs flood hit) and > > my favorite topic; "how big was Noahs > Ark?".> > Particularly poignant was an account of the geologists on a field > trip > > picking up fossils and pocketing them in a state park ( what about > > > thou shall not steal? )and the young son of one of the leaders of > > > the group asked "how did all these fossils get here?"to which his > > dad > answered "the flood brought them here". Someone should tell that > > kid that > parents always lie; Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth > > Fairy, and > now a big world encompassing flood that leave deposits of > > fossils in an > Ohio State Park. Amazing. God help us all.> > > > > > -> Visit > our website: http://texascavers.com> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com> For additional commands, e-mail: > texascavers-h...@texascavers.com>
RE: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character
I'm not sure when this discussion between Blair (whom I met when I lived in Houston) and Dwight (whom I've known since my active days on the NSS Conservation Committee) took place, but it reminds me of my first trip to Terlingua back in the early 60s with Mills Tandy, Tom White and a bunch of other people. I was at UT in those days and the bunch of us went on a camping trip to BBNP. At the end of the first day, a bunch of us hot, tired hiker/campers stopped in at the store in Terlingua for a cold "beveridge." There was a goat in residence at the store at that time and, as we sat down on the front porch to imbibe, the goat sneaked up behind Tom White and started munching on his straw hat. I think he'd already taken a big bite out of it before Tom realized what was happening. Same goat? Who knows. Depends on when this incident with Dwight took place.> From: rdmilhol...@charter.net> To: gschin...@mindspring.com; texascavers@texascavers.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:57:41 -0600> Subject: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character> > I was passing through El Paso the other night as well, though I did stop.> > On the way back I was trying to find a listenable radio station and stumbled> onto 93.5 FM, which was probably broadcast from Alpine or somewhere else.> The program on was pre-recorded, and was an interview with Texas> photographer Blair Pitman. This was at about 9:00 CDT Monday, November 26.> The host was a guy named John Glendennie (your spelling may vary) and he> sounded English, but Blair came through loud and long as a Texan, even> though he stated he has only been here since age 6.> > The part of the interview I heard did not have any caving references. He> mentioned working for the Houston newspaper, spending years documenting the> Big Thicket before it was a Park, and that in fact the National Geographic> article that featured his photographs may have been very influential in> having the land designated by the Feds. He went on talking about his time> photographing celebrities; the story about getting drunk with Arthur Fiedler> after (after, right!?) a Houston Symphony concert, scotch of course, was> especially memorable. The guy with no shirt in the Thicket who invited him> in for coffee was cool as well. He was talking about a book he wrote called> "Tales from the Porch" and originating from Terilingua, and one of the tales> included was the oft repeated experience of Dwight Deal, "Dirt Doc" that> Blair titled "Get Your Goat" involving alcohol, a camp fire, a deep mine, a> beer can, a railroad tie, and the afore mentioned goat.> > Blair came across as highly conversational, a little ornery, and very> interested in people and Nature. Does anyone know about whether this> interview is available on recorded media? A copy should be on file with the> TSS at a minimum. I am sure more of the interview was broadcast before of> later and most likely included caving tales.> > -Original Message-> From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@mindspring.com]> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:44 PM> To: texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso> > > While spending last night in El Paso, I heard an interesting rumor. Seems> that many people take the name El Paso literally and pass through El Paso on> their way to other destinations. I was told that the El Paso Tourism> Bureau was lobbying the city council to have the name of the town changed> from El Paso to El Stoppo to try and get more tourists visiting.> > Now that's funny> > Geary> > > > - Original Message -> From: "Geary Schindel" > To: "Gill Ediger" ; > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:57 PM> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TG> > > > Graham, Aspen, Sue and I were visiting Lee's Ferry in Arizona on> Thanksgiving Day looking at the put in point for the Grand Canyon of the> Colorado, admiring the scenery, and checking out the geology. I always> wanted to visit this site and will some day do the canyon. Graham is> finishing up his first semester at Northern Arizona University and> enjoying Flagstaff.> > That evening, we went to Page, Arizona where the only place open on> Thanksgiving Day to eat was Denny's Restaurant. We had a nice quite and> relatively untraditional Thanksgiving meal. I found it interesting that> more than 300 years after the first Thanksgiving, here we sat being> served by a nice Navaho woman.> > On Friday, we visited Antelope slot canyon out side of Page. This is a> very fine but short slot canyon in the Navaho Sandstone then toured the> Glen Canyon Dam.> > We left Flagstaff today with the hopes of getting to Van Horn, Texas but> decided to call it a day in El Paso where it has been snowing for a few> hours. There is about 2 inches of snow on the ground.> > Geary> > > > -> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texasca
Re: [Texascavers] OT: First Annual Conference of Creation Geologists
The size of Noah's Ark: So, does it strike anyone else as funny that these people would stand against the tide and insist the Bible tells them exactly how old the Earth is, but then not pay attention to the dimensions of the Ark given in Genesis? Or are they going on and on about the length of Noah's Wife's arm? (I'm actually kind of serious. The root problem of Creationism is not bad science, it's bad interpretation of Scripture and bad knowledge of their own religion.) I suppose caves were all made in the flood too, right? Isn't that how it goes? Think of all those poor prehistoric bats that were buried when the flood filled (oops, we don't have caves yet. . . anyway. . . ) with water because the sons o' God just had to come down and do the nasty with some girls and make some giants. . . Seems a little wasteful, doesn't it. . . But right, these are the same folks that usually side with parties and systems that rape the environment all the time anyway. So it's all in kind. . . Creationism is not as much off-topic as we all would like it to be. (End of rant.) Gregg John P Brooks wrote: I was wondering if anyone else saw the article on the first annual gathering of Creation Geologists in last weeks New York Times Magazine? Great reading. An interesting and dramatic account of the first conference of creation geologists as they struggle through the perplexing geologic questions of the daysuch as "how did the Grand Canyon form?", "how did fossils get layered so consistently?" ( It had to do with thier distance from the sea shore when Noahs flood hit) and my favorite topic; "how big was Noahs Ark?". Particularly poignant was an account of the geologists on a field trip picking up fossils and pocketing them in a state park ( what about thou shall not steal? )and the young son of one of the leaders of the group asked "how did all these fossils get here?"to which his dad answered "the flood brought them here". Someone should tell that kid that parents always lie; Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth Fairy, and now a big world encompassing flood that leave deposits of fossils in an Ohio State Park. Amazing. God help us all. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] NPR 93.5
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/national/12radio.html I found NPR listed as of Feb 2006 KTRS 93.5 and Dan Rather fliped the switch. ? Quinta
[Texascavers] West Texas Character
At 03:05 AM 11/28/2007, Don Cooper wrote: My own "interviews" with Mr. Pittman have been equally enjoyable. -WaV Didn't we publish an interview with Pittman in The TEXAS CAVER back in the far-distant '90s? --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Nmcaver] Administrivia nmcaver message
Bill, >The New Mexico Caver email mailing list will be moving to a new web hosting >service very soon, probably around the 8th of December. Thanks for continuing to maintain the NMCaver list. Even though I now live in Virginia, I still like to keep up with what's happening in NM. :-) Mark Minton ___ nmcaver mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://mail.caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [Texascavers] the geology conference
Thank you for that morning giggle! -kathleen Don Cooper wrote: David - I also have unfathomably stoopid (religio-philosophically) peoples whom I descended from and/or around. "I feel your pain" - said a much better president. This made me feel better - Atheists are deluded: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bkhQLt1vbWU -WaV On Nov 27, 2007 4:46 PM, David Locklear wrote: I think that cavers have a unique perspective on the geologic history of the earth. I have many relatives who have a bizarre concept of what a cave is, or how it relates to modern religions. Ironically, they have an easy explanation for how the "pretty" formations were formed.They were all created on the same day. But the ugly formations and the ugly bats, and the darkness and the cold and the mud, they believe are all evil elements, or at least not worthy of investigating. I had a relative call me just the other day and tell me that if I hadn't of "spent my life going to f*cking caves, I might have a real life." ( but that is another story ). How can someone who has never been deep underground have a true understanding of the history of the earth? Why would a speleothem, be growing so deep underground ( from a creationist perspective? )If it was created on the 6th day, ( say 4 to 6 thousand years ago ), then why is it still growing? or why is it dead? Why are there creatures ( and humans ) calcified into the limestone?What purpose does that serve? And the hydro-geologic questions, like why does the river need to go thru the mountain and not around it or over it? Why did our ancient ancestors do things in caves that we have no record of? I can probably come up with a few questions that the creation geologist would only have one answer for. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
Re: [Texascavers] OT Albert Texas sold
There's a dearth of decent Italian food in that area. Maybe it will get better. T. -Original Message- From: "J. LaRue Thomas" Sent: Nov 28, 2007 6:14 AM To: John P Brooks , qui...@clearwire.net, "tc, texas cavers" Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT Albert Texas sold The Albert articles keep saying there is no Post Office (true) and no one lives there (not true). No one lives on that property but the woman who is president of the Albert Community Club (some of you met her) definitely lives in Albert. Her grandfather donated the property for the school, which is also in the town of Albert and was not part of the sale. But it sounds so much more desireable the other way... Jacqui - Original Message - From: John P Brooks To: qui...@clearwire.net ; tc, texas cavers Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT Albert Texas sold I don't think that included the historic school housewhere LBJ once attended school.qui...@clearwire.net wrote: I had this in an email from someone today. I think it was posted here earllier. Quinta Posted Nov 25th 2007 3:02PM by Rigel GreggFiled under: AuctionsYou really can get everything on eBay, even your own "Unpopulated 1 House Texas Town." Gee, I've always wanted one of those. Albert is not the first town to get sold on eBay, but it's the latest. Just north of San Antonio, Texas, it consists of 13 acres that houses a tavern, a dance hall, a tractor shed, a 3 bedroom house, and a couple peach and pecan orchards. There's no post office and no permanent residents, but it sold for $3.8 million dollars to a bidder from Italy -- which was well over the reserve price which was set at only $2.5 million. Do you suppose the winner bought it as some kind of over-the-top Christmas gift for somebody? That would be so fun! - Original Message - From: John P Brooks To: qui...@clearwire.net ; tc, texas cavers Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT Albert Texas sold I don't think that included the historic school housewhere LBJ once attended school.qui...@clearwire.net wrote: I had this in an email from someone today. I think it was posted here earllier. Quinta Posted Nov 25th 2007 3:02PM by Rigel GreggFiled under: AuctionsYou really can get everything on eBay, even your own "Unpopulated 1 House Texas Town." Gee, I've always wanted one of those. Albert is not the first town to get sold on eBay, but it's the latest. Just north of San Antonio, Texas, it consists of 13 acres that houses a tavern, a dance hall, a tractor shed, a 3 bedroom house, and a couple peach and pecan orchards. There's no post office and no permanent residents, but it sold for $3.8 million dollars to a bidder from Italy -- which was well over the reserve price which was set at only $2.5 million. Do you suppose the winner bought it as some kind of over-the-top Christmas gift for somebody? That would be so fun! http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character
-Original Message- >From: RD Milhollin >Sent: Nov 27, 2007 10:57 PM >To: Geary Schindel , texascavers@texascavers.com >Subject: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character > >I was passing through El Paso the other night as well, though I did stop. > >On the way back I was trying to find a listenable radio station and stumbled >onto 93.5 FM, which was probably broadcast from Alpine or somewhere else. I've heard that the Marfa/Alpine/Ft Davis "megaplex" now has an NPR station.. Wonder if that's it.. T. http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT Albert Texas sold
The Albert articles keep saying there is no Post Office (true) and no one lives there (not true). No one lives on that property but the woman who is president of the Albert Community Club (some of you met her) definitely lives in Albert. Her grandfather donated the property for the school, which is also in the town of Albert and was not part of the sale. But it sounds so much more desireable the other way... Jacqui - Original Message - From: John P Brooks To: qui...@clearwire.net ; tc, texas cavers Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT Albert Texas sold I don't think that included the historic school housewhere LBJ once attended school. qui...@clearwire.net wrote: I had this in an email from someone today. I think it was posted here earllier. Quinta Posted Nov 25th 2007 3:02PM by Rigel Gregg Filed under: Auctions You really can get everything on eBay, even your own "Unpopulated 1 House Texas Town." Gee, I've always wanted one of those. Albert is not the first town to get sold on eBay, but it's the latest. Just north of San Antonio, Texas, it consists of 13 acres that houses a tavern, a dance hall, a tractor shed, a 3 bedroom house, and a couple peach and pecan orchards. There's no post office and no permanent residents, but it sold for $3.8 million dollars to a bidder from Italy -- which was well over the reserve price which was set at only $2.5 million. Do you suppose the winner bought it as some kind of over-the-top Christmas gift for somebody? That would be so fun! - Original Message - From: John P Brooks To: qui...@clearwire.net ; tc, texas cavers Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT Albert Texas sold I don't think that included the historic school housewhere LBJ once attended school. qui...@clearwire.net wrote: I had this in an email from someone today. I think it was posted here earllier. Quinta Posted Nov 25th 2007 3:02PM by Rigel Gregg Filed under: Auctions You really can get everything on eBay, even your own "Unpopulated 1 House Texas Town." Gee, I've always wanted one of those. Albert is not the first town to get sold on eBay, but it's the latest. Just north of San Antonio, Texas, it consists of 13 acres that houses a tavern, a dance hall, a tractor shed, a 3 bedroom house, and a couple peach and pecan orchards. There's no post office and no permanent residents, but it sold for $3.8 million dollars to a bidder from Italy -- which was well over the reserve price which was set at only $2.5 million. Do you suppose the winner bought it as some kind of over-the-top Christmas gift for somebody? That would be so fun!
Re: [Texascavers] the geology conference
David - I also have unfathomably stoopid (religio-philosophically) peoples whom I descended from and/or around. "I feel your pain" - said a much better president. This made me feel better - Atheists are deluded: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bkhQLt1vbWU -WaV On Nov 27, 2007 4:46 PM, David Locklear wrote: > I think that cavers have a unique perspective > on the geologic history of the earth. > > I have many relatives who have a bizarre concept > of what a cave is, or how it relates to modern religions. > > Ironically, they have an easy explanation for how > the "pretty" formations were formed.They were > all created on the same day. > > But the ugly formations and the ugly bats, and the > darkness and the cold and the mud, they believe are all > evil elements, or at least not worthy of investigating. > > I had a relative call me just the other day and tell me > that if I hadn't of "spent my life going to f*cking caves, I might > have a real life." ( but that is another story ). > > How can someone who has never been deep underground > have a true understanding of the history of the earth? Why > would a speleothem, be growing so deep underground ( from > a creationist perspective? )If it was created on the 6th day, > ( say 4 to 6 thousand years ago ), then why is it still growing? > or why is it dead? Why are there creatures ( and humans ) > calcified into the limestone?What purpose does that serve? > And the hydro-geologic questions, like why does the river > need to go thru the mountain and not around it or over it? > > Why did our ancient ancestors do things in caves that we > have no record of? > > I can probably come up with a few questions that the > creation geologist would only have one answer for. > > David Locklear > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
[Texascavers] Recent Texas Cave Salamander presentations by Texas biologists :
At the recent Texas Herpetological Society Symposium held at the The University of Texas at Austin, Pickle Research Center on 3 November 2007, the theme was “Texas Salamanders” with a heavy emphasis on cave salamanders. Several well known cavers and karst biologists presented talks on the results of Texas Cave Salamander studies that have been ongoing. Here is a listing of the cave specific presentations : Dee Ann Chamberlain, City of Austin: “Captive population management of Eurycea sosorum (Barton Springs Salamander).” Jessie Crowley, Dallas Zoo: “Zoological contributions to the conservation of central Texas salamanders (Eurycea spp.)” Laurie A. Dries, City of Austin: “Science and endangered species management: the Barton Springs salamander, Eurycea sosorum.” Kristen Epp and Caitlin Gabor, Texas State University: “Experience effects the avoidance of native and non-native predators by the San Marcos salamander, Eurycea nana.” Joe Furman, Houston: The Edwards Aquifer, Ezell’s Cave, and the search for the Blind Monster.” Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Jean K. Krejca, and Lisa O’Donnell, Texas Natural Science Center, Zara Environmental LLC, and Austin Water Utility, Balcones Canyonlands Preserve: “ Studies on central Texas Eurycea populations using VIE mark-recapture methods.” Lisa O’Donnell, Mark Sanders, and Laura Zebehazy, Austin Water Utility, Balcones Canyonlands Preserve and Travis County Department of Transportation and Natural Resources: “Jollyville Plateau Salamander (Eurycea tonkawae): central Texas’s proverbial canary in a coalmine.” Benjamin A. Pierce, and James L. Christiansen, Southwestern University, Texas Natural Science Center: “Distribution and ecology of the Georgetown salamander, Eurycea naufragia.” Mary F. Poteet, and H. Arthur Woods, The University of Texas at Austin and University of Montana: “Survivorship and physiological response of Eurycea sosorum and Eurycea nana to altered levels of dissolved oxygen and conductivity in the Edwards Aquifer.” Mike Quinn, Jean K. Krejca, James Reddell, and Duane A. Schlitter, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, Zara Environmental LLC, and Texas Natural Science Center: “An overview of the Balcones Karst invertebrate fauna.” Corey E. Roelke, Nathan F. Bendik, Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, and Paul. T. Chippindale, The University of Texas at Arlington and The University of Texas at Austin: “ Morphological analysis of southeastern clade central Texas Eurycea.” Steven J. Taylor, Christopher A. Phillips, Jean K. Krejca, and Michael J. Dreslik, Illinois Natural History Survey and Zara Environmental LLC: “Population estimates and age class structure of the salamander Plethodon albagula (Plethodontidae) at Fort Hood, Texas.” Haley Gillespie Weatherby, The University of Texas at Austin: “Assessing temporal diet variation in the Barton Springs Salamander (Eurycea sosorum) using stable isotope techniques.” **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)
[Texascavers] DVD available on blind salamanders in Ezell's Cave :
>From blog posting by Carel Brest van Kempen : My old pal Joe Furman has been filming amphibians for pretty close to forever. He's shot great footage of all aspects of the natural history of dozens of species in their natural habitat, from all over the world, but when I learned that he was putting together a documentary about the Texas Blind Salamander (Eurycea=Typhlomolge rathbuni) I really took notice. This bizarre little shovel-headed creature is only known from the Edwards Aquifer, beneath San Marcos, Texas. Its claims to coolness include being the most advanced troglobitic salamander known, as well as the first species listed on the U.S. Endangered Species Act. Before Joe turned up, the Texas Blind Salamander had never been filmed in its natural habitat, and with good reason; it takes a special kind of pathology to squeeze one's self through an unstable crack in the ground to lower one's self to a subterranean lake, then jump in. Be that as it may, I just received a copy of Joe's finished film, and it's a thorough look at what's known of E. rathbuni: its natural history, ecology, habitat and the history of its discovery It also gives (I imagine) a pretty clear depiction of what that trip down to the aquifer must be like. It even has a mention in _Wikipedia_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_blind_salamander) . DVDs of the documentary are _available for sale_ (http://texasblindsalamandermovie.com/) . Edwards Aquifer: Ezell's Cave and the Search for the Blind Monster (2007) "This documentary presents a good summary of the exotic life in the Edwards Aquifer. And the trip through the cave should give viewers a good idea of what it is like to explore a wild cave like Ezell's. Jean's footage while diving is really spectacular. It is rare to get a real glimpse of the inside of the aquifer. I think the DVD can be a great tool for showing the public, from school children to adults, what the Edwards Aquifer looks like and why we need to protect it" Brain A. Smith, Aquifer Science Team Leader Barton Springs/Edwards Aquifer Conservation District Availabe from : _http://texasblindsalamandermovie.com/_ (http://texasblindsalamandermovie.com/) Price : $20 + S&H **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)
Re: [Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character
My own "interviews" with Mr. Pittman have been equally enjoyable. -WaV On Nov 27, 2007 9:57 PM, RD Milhollin wrote: > I was passing through El Paso the other night as well, though I did stop. > > On the way back I was trying to find a listenable radio station and > stumbled > onto 93.5 FM, which was probably broadcast from Alpine or somewhere else. > The program on was pre-recorded, and was an interview with Texas > photographer Blair Pitman. This was at about 9:00 CDT Monday, November 26. > The host was a guy named John Glendennie (your spelling may vary) and he > sounded English, but Blair came through loud and long as a Texan, even > though he stated he has only been here since age 6. > > The part of the interview I heard did not have any caving references. He > mentioned working for the Houston newspaper, spending years documenting > the > Big Thicket before it was a Park, and that in fact the National Geographic > article that featured his photographs may have been very influential in > having the land designated by the Feds. He went on talking about his time > photographing celebrities; the story about getting drunk with Arthur > Fiedler > after (after, right!?) a Houston Symphony concert, scotch of course, was > especially memorable. The guy with no shirt in the Thicket who invited him > in for coffee was cool as well. He was talking about a book he wrote > called > "Tales from the Porch" and originating from Terilingua, and one of the > tales > included was the oft repeated experience of Dwight Deal, "Dirt Doc" that > Blair titled "Get Your Goat" involving alcohol, a camp fire, a deep mine, > a > beer can, a railroad tie, and the afore mentioned goat. > > Blair came across as highly conversational, a little ornery, and very > interested in people and Nature. Does anyone know about whether this > interview is available on recorded media? A copy should be on file with > the > TSS at a minimum. I am sure more of the interview was broadcast before of > later and most likely included caving tales. > > -Original Message- > From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@mindspring.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:44 PM > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso > > > While spending last night in El Paso, I heard an interesting rumor. Seems > that many people take the name El Paso literally and pass through El Paso > on > their way to other destinations. I was told that the El Paso Tourism > Bureau was lobbying the city council to have the name of the town changed > from El Paso to El Stoppo to try and get more tourists visiting. > > Now that's funny > > Geary > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Geary Schindel" > To: "Gill Ediger" ; > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:57 PM > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TG > > > > Graham, Aspen, Sue and I were visiting Lee's Ferry in Arizona on > Thanksgiving Day looking at the put in point for the Grand Canyon of the > Colorado, admiring the scenery, and checking out the geology. I always > wanted to visit this site and will some day do the canyon. Graham is > finishing up his first semester at Northern Arizona University and > enjoying Flagstaff. > > That evening, we went to Page, Arizona where the only place open on > Thanksgiving Day to eat was Denny's Restaurant. We had a nice quite and > relatively untraditional Thanksgiving meal. I found it interesting that > more than 300 years after the first Thanksgiving, here we sat being > served by a nice Navaho woman. > > On Friday, we visited Antelope slot canyon out side of Page. This is a > very fine but short slot canyon in the Navaho Sandstone then toured the > Glen Canyon Dam. > > We left Flagstaff today with the hopes of getting to Van Horn, Texas but > decided to call it a day in El Paso where it has been snowing for a few > hours. There is about 2 inches of snow on the ground. > > Geary > > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
