[Texascavers] [texascavers] Mexican Gang Takes Gas Well
Looks like the Mexican gangs are diversifying... http://www.pennenergy.com/index/petroleum/display/9399672301/articles/pennenergy/petroleum/exploration/2010/06/armed-men_take_control.html June 10, 2010 By Phaedra Friend Troy http://www.google.com/profiles/Phaedra.Troy According to a report from Reuters, a group of armed men have taken control of a natural gas well in northeast Mexico. Local media is reporting that an armed gang has been in control of the natural gas well for some two weeks. Although Pemex has not confirmed the report, the local media said that a number of workers from the well site have been kidnapped. Since May 23, the criminal gang has been barricading the Gigante Uno liquefied natural gas well in the Burgos basin of Nueva Ciudad Guerrero near the US border. The gang has been stealing natural gas condensate, and the Mexican army has been unable to penetrate the blockade, reports the press. Just this week, Pemex filed suit against a number of US oil producershttp://www.pennenergy.com/index/articles/newsdisplay/1201036310.htmlin a Houston federal court for knowingly buying stolen natural gas condensate from thieves. In the court filings, Pemex claims that since 2006, some $300 million in petroleum products have been smuggled across the US border in tanker trucks that have been hijacked. Northern Mexico is experiencing extremely escalated violence in connection to drug trafficking across the border to the US. Reuters reports that 23,000 people have been killed since 2006 because of these criminal gangs. Stealing oil, natural gas and petroleum products has proven a major money-maker for these gangs. On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 3:16 AM, texascavers-digest-h...@texascavers.comwrote: texascavers Digest 13 Jun 2010 01:16:05 - Issue 1078 Topics (messages 15102 through 15106): [Deep Punkin' Nature Preserve] 15102 by: Don Arburn Re: LEDs for Locklear 15103 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net 15104 by: mark gee Re: carbide vs LED 15105 by: mark gee Re: another passing 15106 by: Gill Edigar Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- -- Forwarded message -- From: Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com To: Texas Cavers List texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:24:16 -0500 Subject: [Deep Punkin' Nature Preserve] Anyone interested in helping in the next couple of weeks? Completing porch work is the focus, with caving as a reward. There is some interest in weekdays, that is an option. Please contact Aaron Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com or myself if interested in helping, thanks! Don Arburn Deep and Punkin Nature Preserve. d...@oztotl.com -- Forwarded message -- From: tbsam...@verizon.net To: imoca...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:36:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Texascavers] LEDs for Locklear You could hardly use this like Q-beams are used to subdue a miscreant. T Book 'em, Dan-o! Jun 12, 2010 02:39:24 PM, imoca...@comcast.net wrote: Here ya go, David! *http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/*http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/ Alex -- *Alex Sproul* *NSS 8086RL/FE* *NSS Webmaster* *www.caves.org* http://www.caves.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Forwarded message -- From: mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com To: tbsam...@verizon.net, imoca...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Texascavers] LEDs for Locklear It could light up the Big Room At Carlsbad. The question is how long do the batteries last and how heavy is it? Cool light. -- *From:* tbsam...@verizon.net tbsam...@verizon.net *To:* imoca...@comcast.net *Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Sat, June 12, 2010 3:36:29 PM *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] LEDs for Locklear You could hardly use this like Q-beams are used to subdue a miscreant. T Book 'em, Dan-o! Jun 12, 2010 02:39:24 PM, imoca...@comcast.net wrote: Here ya go, David! *http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/*http://hacknmod.com/hack/massive-500-led-extreme-flashlight/ Alex -- *Alex Sproul* *NSS 8086RL/FE* *NSS Webmaster* *www.caves.org* http://www.caves.org/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For
[Texascavers] a cave web-site from England
I am only posting this because the web-site below shows some of the interesting cultural differences between cavers over here and cavers in places like England: http://www.darfarpc.org.uk/ Note some of the language differences, like Rob broke through into 2m of open draughting passage Powered from their mains genny via a 100m extension cable An excellent afternoon drinking, caving, digging and drinking again Ian removed some of the obstruction blocking the second way into the cellars. When was the last time you did a pit using this technique ? http://www.darfarpc.org.uk/images/stories/galleries/Hillocks_Mine/dscf1408.jpg ( Is he even clipped into the rope ? ) Does this look like any going cave around Rocksprings ? http://www.darfarpc.org.uk/images/stories/cave_images/gateham_fence_small.jpg Note they like to name this type of cave as something Pot.Which is probably why they call themselves, potholers. Also, notice their reference to Bank Holidays ( as they don't celebrate our federal holidays like MLK, Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc ) Also, what the public throws down into the pots is called, rubbish. And they end their trip reports by saying, The 3 potholers had a 'beer in the byre' before returning home. David Locklear Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_holiday#List_of_current_holidays - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
texascavers Digest 13 Jun 2010 13:22:10 -0000 Issue 1079
texascavers Digest 13 Jun 2010 13:22:10 - Issue 1079 Topics (messages 15107 through 15111): Pennsylvania cave rescue 15107 by: David 15108 by: David [texascavers] Mexican Gang Takes Gas Well 15109 by: Simon Newton a cave web-site from England 15110 by: David Re: carbide vs LED (attempt 2) 15111 by: Philip L Moss Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- 3 men were hiking Friday evening near Bridge Valley Road in Martic Township, when they decided to go into what's known as the Cool Caves. The men, reportedly between age 18 and 20 years old, had walked about 150 ft back into the narrow caves when the second hiker got stuck between the rocks at the chest area. The trapped hikers' position also prevented the first hiker from escaping. The third man was able to run back and call for help Dozens of firefighters and rescue workers spent two hours working to free the men. We managed to free him with just slowly lubricating him with soap and water then actually slide him out, said Chief Deputy Brandon Evans, with the Pequea Volunteer Fire Company. One of the men was treated for minor injuries. The Cool Caves are natural caves that reportedly stretch for miles underground. According to Pequea fire officials, it is extremely common for hikers to explore the caves but people rarely become stuck inside. My comments: Dozens of firefighters!How many is that ?If it were more than 50, the reporter would have said nearly a hundred, so it must have been somewhere between 24 and 49 firefighters.Right ? Can you picture them slowly lubricating him? I guess they didn't want him to get hypothermic. Wouldn't baby oil have worked better? Why do I doubt these caves stretch for miles underground ? ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Here is a video clip of outside the cave. http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/18/259289/4280 I only see about 2 people in the group of at least 11 rescuers that look equipped to go in a tight cave, much less do a rescue. Do they really need to string communicating cable?Or is that a water hose ? Did they decon their gear ? I don't see the dozens of rescuers that the reporter mentioned. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Looks like the Mexican gangs are diversifying... http://www.pennenergy.com/index/petroleum/display/9399672301/articles/pennenergy/petroleum/exploration/2010/06/armed-men_take_control.html June 10, 2010 By Phaedra Friend Troy http://www.google.com/profiles/Phaedra.Troy According to a report from Reuters, a group of armed men have taken control of a natural gas well in northeast Mexico. Local media is reporting that an armed gang has been in control of the natural gas well for some two weeks. Although Pemex has not confirmed the report, the local media said that a number of workers from the well site have been kidnapped. Since May 23, the criminal gang has been barricading the Gigante Uno liquefied natural gas well in the Burgos basin of Nueva Ciudad Guerrero near the US border. The gang has been stealing natural gas condensate, and the Mexican army has been unable to penetrate the blockade, reports the press. Just this week, Pemex filed suit against a number of US oil producershttp://www.pennenergy.com/index/articles/newsdisplay/1201036310.htmlin a Houston federal court for knowingly buying stolen natural gas condensate from thieves. In the court filings, Pemex claims that since 2006, some $300 million in petroleum products have been smuggled across the US border in tanker trucks that have been hijacked. Northern Mexico is experiencing extremely escalated violence in connection to drug trafficking across the border to the US. Reuters reports that 23,000 people have been killed since 2006 because of these criminal gangs. Stealing oil, natural gas and petroleum products has proven a major money-maker for these gangs. On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 3:16 AM, texascavers-digest-h...@texascavers.comwrote: texascavers Digest 13 Jun 2010 01:16:05 - Issue 1078 Topics (messages 15102 through 15106): [Deep Punkin' Nature Preserve] 15102 by: Don Arburn Re: LEDs for Locklear 15103 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net 15104 by: mark gee Re: carbide vs LED 15105 by: mark gee Re: another passing 15106 by: Gill Edigar Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2)
Mark Alman wrote: Wow, after reading all of these near-death incidents caused by or around carbide, it makes me wonder why anyone would consider not switching to 100% LED use! Mark Well, I could quibble about whether or not carbide caused all the incidents or whether the propane leak might have been a cause. An accident is what happens when the immutable laws of physics are ignored. - Ambrose Bierce But what about all the deaths carbide lights have prevented? I can think of a few trips personally where the carbide lamps were the only indication of high CO2/low O2. More than once I have rappelled into bad air and knew almost immediately by the response of my carbide lamp. The most recent time was less than a year ago. No LED light will tell you that. For those of you who don't have much experience with low O2 in caves, it can be highly stratified in caves. I have had my head in 15% 02 while at my feet it was 9% (I had a meter that day). OSHA forbids working in atmospheres below 18% O2, if memory serves. At 9%, one passes out very quickly. Imagine you are rappelling into a stratified atmosphere similar to this one. How slowly are you rapelling and how are you going to notice the changes in air quality? Changing over on rope in bad air is very difficult in my experience even if the air quality is significantly better than 9% O2; low O2 makes one stupid (temporarily, I am led to believe). Cap lamps mark stations well with removable, relatively benign marks and will mark on relatively wet surfaces. A cap lamp can be made completely nonmagnetic, is easily removable so that one can read instruments without having yet another piece of equipment to bring into the cave. They work and are durable. I have used a cap lamp since I started caving in 1971. I have tried electrics over the years from time to time and currently own an Apex. I still have yet to find one I trust to last. My Apex leaks if I put under water and sooner or later it will corrode and quit working from that or some other reason that I will fail to understand. I have dropped a cap lamp down a 90 foot pit; it had a minor ding and I was able to continue using it for many more years and still have it in working order. The Autolite I am using is probably more than 50 years old. With very low tech maintenance, there is nothing that will go wrong with it that I cannot fix without tools in the cave. And it will probably go another 50 years with a reasonable amount of care (which is more than I can say for me). Do you think that any of the individual lights in use today will still useable in 20 years? And if not, what does this say for the likelihood that they will fail while you are depending on them? How many times have you been on a trip where an electric light has completely failed? I have seen it frequently. So far, I have not seen a Stenlight fail, but I have seen several Apex fail and high number of Petzel products. But Stenlights, while very bright are also very magnetic and pretty expensive. Carbides are still not very good for diving I will grant, but with a little knowledge, they stand up to long-term immersion quite well. I will also grant they have real drawbacks on multi-day in cave camps. And there is a learning curve that appears to be a bit much for some people. And the USDOT has made it relatively expensive to buy carbide. However, I no longer encourage new people to use carbide lamps. I do think that a durable enough LED light for a reasonable price is not far off. But I think there are some real advantages in having some of us around (OK, so I am not around you in particular) who still know and use the old technologies. And most of us don't bring CO2 meters caving. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com PS If any of you know why my emails occasionally look like Chinese characters when I use the reply function and can tell me how to prevent the font switch without the simple expedient of never using reply, I would appreciate the advice off line. Six Sigma Certification Villanova Six Sigma Certification 100% Online Program - Free Info. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c14db61d6027a01efm01vuc
Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2)
While surveying a cave in southern Kentucky years ago, well decades ago, I developed a headache. After a few more shots down and into a room with a huge pile of rotting leaves, my carbide lamp started acting up. For some reason I climbed up high and onto a ledge to change carbide. The lamp still had plenty of good carbide. I looked down at my companion and noted he was fumbling with his carbide lamp and not accomplishing anything. At that point I realized what was wrong and shouted at my companion to climb up where I sat. Once he climbed up to my level his carbide lamp started to burn properly. We beat a hasty retreat. My headache went away once we were outside the cave. That same year I remember survey trip to another cave. We had a high school student with us, who was a student of the 3rd member of the team. The student, Paul, had a brand new waterproof pack. As we were preparing to leave for the day, Paul decided to change carbide. We were next to the cave stream. As Paul opened his pack there was a tremendous explosion. The blast burned all the hair off Paul's face and his face was bright red with black soot. We washed his face as quickly as we could with the cold stream water. He complained of pain from the burn. By the time we got to town Paul didn't feel the need to visit a doctor or require any pain ointment. The red color had pretty much gone away. By morning he was fine albeit minus facial hair. When I first started caving, one could buy carbide at a local hardware store, either in bulk or in a can. I bought a 100 pound drum of carbide which I shared with fellow cavers. I've had two Princeton Tec LED lights go bad - an Apex and an EOS. Princeton Tec replaced both under warranty without question. If you get the Princeton Tec lights wet inside, just open them up to get the excess water out and re-close. Once home or back at camp, open the lamp up and allow the circuit board to dry. For about ten years I was building my own LED head lamps for caving. I made no attempt to waterproof the lamp or electronics other than a conformal coating on the circuit board. The LED element was mounted on a home made aluminum bracket (bolted to the helmet) that doubled as a heat sink. The circuit board was mounted to the back side of the bracket. The fixture was submerged many times and was never affected by being wet. The typical arrangement consisted of one Luxeon 1-watt LED and four super bright 1/8 LEDs all mounted on the aluminum bracket. (Very much like the Apex arrangement.) Other than having to replace the switches, I never had any problem with those head lamps. I considered them a big improvement over the Nite Lite that I previously used and definitely an improvement over a carbide light. I continued to carry my trusty Autolite for backup and for placing survey stations. I never had to use it as a backup and I eventually started using either a Sharpie or red fingernail paint to mark stations with a very small dot. I haven't carried a carbide lamp for years now. I was lucky to work for a company that permitted and encouraged employees to work on personal projects during their lunch hour and outside of working hours and allowed them to take parts from open stock without charge. Parts taken from controlled stock had to be signed out and judgment used as whether or not to reimburse the company. Our quality assurance manager was always happy to make custom circuit boards for employees. (I think that he had too much free time available.) My best to all, Bill Walden - Original Message - From: Philip L Moss To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2) Mark Alman wrote: Wow, after reading all of these near-death incidents caused by or around carbide, it makes me wonder why anyone would consider not switching to 100% LED use! Mark Well, I could quibble about whether or not carbide caused all the incidents or whether the propane leak might have been a cause. An accident is what happens when the immutable laws of physics are ignored. - Ambrose Bierce But what about all the deaths carbide lights have prevented? I can think of a few trips personally where the carbide lamps were the only indication of high CO2/low O2. More than once I have rappelled into bad air and knew almost immediately by the response of my carbide lamp. The most recent time was less than a year ago. No LED light will tell you that. For those of you who don't have much experience with low O2 in caves, it can be highly stratified in caves. I have had my head in 15% 02 while at my feet it was 9% (I had a meter that day). OSHA forbids working in atmospheres below 18% O2, if memory serves. At 9%, one passes out very quickly. Imagine you are rappelling into a stratified atmosphere similar to this one. How slowly are you rapelling and how are
Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2)
The only time I ever rappelled into Deadman's hole, I had an experience like this. I went down slowly, expecting possible co2 because the caves in the Ellenberger in that area are known for it, but still, I was very surprised by how stratified it was. Where I stopped on rope when the air started to seem thin, if I held my bic lighter over my head, it functioned normally. When I drew it down to my waist, the flame began to separate from the lighter, by the time I lowered it to near my feet, the flame was over an inch above the lighter barely burning. This was probably 30-40 feet below the entrance. On Jun 13, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Philip L Moss wrote: I can think of a few trips personally where the carbide lamps were the only indication of high CO2/low O2. More than once I have rappelled into bad air and knew almost immediately by the response of my carbide lamp. The most recent time was less than a year ago. No LED light will tell you that. For those of you who don't have much experience with low O2 in caves, it can be highly stratified in caves. I have had my head in 15% 02 while at my feet it was 9% (I had a meter that day). OSHA forbids working in atmospheres below 18% O2, if memory serves. At 9%, one passes out very quickly.
Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2)
Very similar experience in Midnight cave about 12 years ago on an aborted trip. I was first down. It seemed awful dank from the beginning but near touchdown on the garbage pile, it got so bad I was having trouble breathing - I could feel hyperventilation coming on . (No CO2 monitor, no lighter even - but that might have been a good idea).. Quickly changed over and ascended the hell outta there. It was one of those cases where you consider that if you hadn't acted fast, you might just not have had a happy ending! (And of course, fresh air on the surface was like a big cold glass of water after hiking out of the dessert - SWEET!) -WaV
Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2)
Phillip, what client do you use to do email? Swiching to text only (turning off HTML or RTF modes) may resolve the problem. Charles Sent via C=64 Mobile On Jun 13, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Philip L Moss philipm...@juno.com wrote: Mark Alman wrote: Wow, after reading all of these near-death incidents caused by or around carbide, it makes me wonder why anyone would consider not switching to 100% LED use! Mark Well, I could quibble about whether or not carbide caused all the incidents or whether the propane leak might have been a cause. An accident is what happens when the immutable laws of physics are ignored. - Ambrose Bierce But what about all the deaths carbide lights have prevented? I can think of a few trips personally where the carbide lamps were the only indication of high CO2/low O2. More than once I have rappelled into bad air and knew almost immediately by the response of my carbide lamp. The most recent time was less than a year ago. No LED light will tell you that. For those of you who don't have much experience with low O2 in caves, it can be highly stratified in caves. I have had my head in 15% 02 while at my feet it was 9% (I had a meter that day). OSHA forbids working in atmospheres below 18% O2, if memory serves. At 9%, one passes out very quickly. Imagine you are rappelling into a stratified atmosphere similar to this one. How slowly are you rapelling and how are you going to notice the changes in air quality? Changing over on rope in bad air is very difficult in my experience even if the air quality is significantly better than 9% O2; low O2 makes one stupid (temporarily, I am led to believe). Cap lamps mark stations well with removable, relatively benign marks and will mark on relatively wet surfaces. A cap lamp can be made completely nonmagnetic, is easily removable so that one can read instruments without having yet another piece of equipment to bring into the cave. They work and are durable. I have used a cap lamp since I started caving in 1971. I have tried electrics over the years from time to time and currently own an Apex. I still have yet to find one I trust to last. My Apex leaks if I put under water and sooner or later it will corrode and quit working from that or some other reason that I will fail to understand. I have dropped a cap lamp down a 90 foot pit; it had a minor ding and I was able to continue using it for many more years and still have it in working order. The Autolite I am using is probably more than 50 years old. With very low tech maintenance, there is nothing that will go wrong with it that I cannot fix without tools in the cave. And it will probably go another 50 years with a reasonable amount of care (which is more than I can say for me). Do you think that any of the individual lights in use today will still useable in 20 years? And if not, what does this say for the likelihood that they will fail while you are depending on them? How many times have you been on a trip where an electric light has completely failed? I have seen it frequently. So far, I have not seen a Stenlight fail, but I have seen several Apex fail and high number of Petzel products. But Stenlights, while very bright are also very magnetic and pretty expensive. Carbides are still not very good for diving I will grant, but with a little knowledge, they stand up to long-term immersion quite well. I will also grant they have real drawbacks on multi-day in cave camps. And there is a learning curve that appears to be a bit much for some people. And the USDOT has made it relatively expensive to buy carbide. However, I no longer encourage new people to use carbide lamps. I do think that a durable enough LED light for a reasonable price is not far off. But I think there are some real advantages in having some of us around (OK, so I am not around you in particular) who still know and use the old technologies. And most of us don't bring CO2 meters caving. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com PS If any of you know why my emails occasionally look like Chinese characters when I use the reply function and can tell me how to prevent the font switch without the simple expedient of never using reply, I would appreciate the advice off line. Six Sigma Certification Villanova Six Sigma Certification 100% Online Program - Free Info. VillanovaU.com
[Texascavers] more new LED stuff
There are a bunch of new LED flashlights and headlamps to talk about, but the only one really interesting to me is this one: http://www.brightguy.com/products/Energizer_Night_Strike_Handheld_Light_3AA_ENSHH31L.php I played with it at Gander Mountain today. I think they wanted $ 77 for it, which is way too much, but I did like the features it had. Because of its flat shape, you could mount it on the side of your helmet, but it may be too big and heavy for that. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] caver music ?
Is this a French version of the Terminal Siphons ? http://musikplease.com/theant-sporto-kantes-speleology-11470 Whatever, it is they stole the idea from the old Buck Rogers movie ( 1979 ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHG29QjqYZ8feature=related - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] a cave question
I have a question, or questions. Do cavers still place numerical metal tags at caves? Do any caves still have the old metal tags around them ? My memory seems to recall seeing a round tag a little bigger than a quarter with a number on it at a cave I once went to. I can't remember if I saw that at CBSP or somewhere else where cavers were marking caves.Maybe out at Bandera ? If my memory is correct, was this a grotto thing, or a TSS thing, or some other group? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Carbon Dioxide and Low Oxygen in Texas Caves.
Someone ought to post more on this subject because of the potential for Hazardous levels of Carbon Dioxide in many areas of Texas. We seem to have been blessed with a lot of karst (Ellenberger primarily) prone to generating high levels of CO2 in the warmer months. I can tell you that it can certainly present a life threatening scenario where vertical caving is concerned. I have been in very low air while crawling around and it can be very disconcerting but one can generally evacuate to better air or be assisted. On rope in still air it can most certainly become life threatening very quickly when rappelling into a pool of Carbon Dioxide. I became severely disoriented and made an emergency egress after fast rappelling 75 feet into a cave in Cedar Park and hitting the bottom in what was probably life threatening levels of CO2. Had I not made it out it would probably have been a body recovery and could have involved more than one person if another caver had descended to aid me not knowing the nature of the emergency. You should be aware that CO2 is a common occurrence in many caves and if you are on rope descend with caution should you notice bad air. It doesn't mean it will be life threatening but the change can occur very quickly and one needs to be prepared, should the air suddenly become extremely bad, to change over and get the hell out post haste. I know decomposition of organic debris is the primary cause in most caves. Not sure what research has been done on this phenomena or why it seems to occur mainly in many Ellenberger caves. Want to say this is an oil bearing rock and CO2 may be the result of microbial activity? Any comments on this from someone in the know. Scott _ From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 4:36 PM To: Chris Vreeland Cc: Cavers, Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2) Very similar experience in Midnight cave about 12 years ago on an aborted trip. I was first down. It seemed awful dank from the beginning but near touchdown on the garbage pile, it got so bad I was having trouble breathing - I could feel hyperventilation coming on . (No CO2 monitor, no lighter even - but that might have been a good idea).. Quickly changed over and ascended the hell outta there. It was one of those cases where you consider that if you hadn't acted fast, you might just not have had a happy ending! (And of course, fresh air on the surface was like a big cold glass of water after hiking out of the dessert - SWEET!) -WaV
