Re: [Texascavers] Wes Skiles
There was a brief bit about Wes Skiles this morning on NPR, Morning Edition Here is the link to the story. http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow/2010/07/22/128704761/skiles If you select the audio option, you can hear Wes speaking. Leslie Bell --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Dave H. Crusoe dhcru...@projectkir.org wrote: From: Dave H. Crusoe dhcru...@projectkir.org Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Wes Skiles To: Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com Cc: Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu, Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 3:57 PM The National Geographic tribute: http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2010/07/national-geographic-photographer-wes-skiles-dies.html On Jul 22, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Josh Rubinstein wrote: Here is some more information. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/national-geographic-freelance-photographer-drowns-off-boynton-beach-817521.html Josh On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: Very sad news indeed. I was just looking at Wes' beautiful photography of the Bahama blue holes in the new Nat Geo issue yesterday. I served with Wes on a past NSS video salon jury and have a collection of his programs--the best underwater cave imagery I've ever seen. I'll be looking at his videos tonight and thinking about what an incredible contribution he made in his life. Frank On 7/22/10 6:03 AM, Fofo Gonzalez gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Hello. Wes Skiles, famous cave diver and explorer, died yesterday during a National Geographic work dive off West Palm Beach. I don't have more information now, but this is sad news. - Fofo - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [NMCAVER] [SandiaGrotto] SWR for Labor Day
Wow! I think that this is a great idea. If there was to be a party, there wouldn't be a liability issue. Hot tubbing at a regional hasn't been done since they brought one in at Ft. Stanton years ago! I hope that the organizers of the regional take Martha up on her generous offer. Thanks Martha! Hope we do this. Carl Pagano On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:06 PM, mmcart1...@aol.com wrote: You are welcome to camp at my house. Off frost, sandia Knolls...3 acres...hot tub...grill...bathrooms Martha McArthur 505-350-9022 (cell) -Original Message- From: linda starr lst...@hubwest.com To: Artisian Caver blandev...@comcast.net; 'Internal Communications of the Sandia Grotto' sandiagro...@caver.net Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 7:45 pm Subject: Re: [SandiaGrotto] SWR for Labor Day All, This sounds like a good plan for needed service and cave finding if we can get a place to camp again. Linda Starr From: Artisian Caver Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:01 AM To: 'linda starr' ; 'Internal Communications of the Sandia Grotto' Subject: RE: [SandiaGrotto] SWR for Labor Day I have a plan to have the SWR Labor Day Regional back at the ski area. I am writing a proposal to give to the forest service office of what we plan to accomplish. I was interested in having it there because it is in our mountains and there is still ridgewalking to be done west of Las Huertas Canyon to the rim of the sandias. There are several feeder canyons that have not been checked that I am aware of. I would also propose that we hike the western ridge of the Manzanitas near the cement factory. There are also several mines in the area that might need some checking into, whether or not they have been surveyed. I am specifically interested in the La Luz mine at the crest. Blake From: sandiagrotto-boun...@caver.net [mailto:sandiagrotto-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of linda starr Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 7:23 PM To: Internal Communications of the Sandia Grotto Subject: [SandiaGrotto] SWR for Labor Day Sandia Grotto cavers, I hope there is a final plan to be presented at the July grotto meeting on place to hold the Labor Day regional. Carol Belski will need to get info to SWR members (probably a separate mailing) by late July. They will need a map and an idea of activities. Liz was going to look into the Pronouns. I have the contact name and info of the miner who locks the gate up on top of the hill (Carol and I talked to him a few years ago) if someone wants it. But don't wait until after this Saturday to ask or I won't be here. Happy Holes, Linda Starr ___ SandiaGrotto mailing list sandiagro...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/sandiagrotto_caver.net ___ SandiaGrotto mailing list sandiagro...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/sandiagrotto_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
texascavers Digest 23 Jul 2010 16:14:25 -0000 Issue 1110
texascavers Digest 23 Jul 2010 16:14:25 - Issue 1110 Topics (messages 15531 through 15544): Re: Wes Skiles 15531 by: Keith Goggin 15532 by: Brandon Cook 15543 by: Leslie Bell Re: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper! 15533 by: Fritz Holt 15539 by: Rod Goke Re: first cave trip 15534 by: Pete Lindsley 15535 by: Mark Minton 15538 by: Rod Goke 15540 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Re: first cave trip, and monkeys 15536 by: Logan McNatt driving question - TAG area 15537 by: David Landslide in Italy 15541 by: Gill Edigar Mythes, Realities, and Suspicions about Photognomes 15542 by: Rod Goke 15544 by: Don Cooper Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Here in Hogtown we are crushed. Wes was the best, larger than life, a motorcycle riding, beer drinking, bad joke telling, world traveling, deep diving superhero. Amen to that. We're crushed here in Houston as well. I will miss him a great deal.---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Family's statement, courtesy of Jill Heinerth: Wes Skiles' Family Statement: Thursday, July, 22, 2010 1500PM The Skiles family has asked me to distribute this statement: Wes Skiles died while diving off West Palm Beach on Wednesday, July 21. He was conducting a routine filming dive when the accident occurred. No one else was injured. There are no further details regarding the accident at this time. The exact cause has not yet been determined and we are awaiting official reports. Wes has been a tireless advocate for springs, springsheds and the conservation and protection of Florida’s water resources. At the time of his death, he was excited about the upcoming issue of National Geographic Magazine, which features his photographs and the cover shot. We appreciate all of the concern and outpouring of support. We celebrate his extraordinary life and ask you to do the same. The family requests that you respect their privacy at this time. Memorial arrangements will be announced in the near future. --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: From: Fofo gonza...@msu.edu Subject: [Texascavers] Wes Skiles To: texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 8:03 AM Hello. Wes Skiles, famous cave diver and explorer, died yesterday during a National Geographic work dive off West Palm Beach. I don't have more information now, but this is sad news. - Fofo - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- There was a brief bit about Wes Skiles this morning on NPR, Morning Edition Here is the link to the story. http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow/2010/07/22/128704761/skiles If you select the audio option, you can hear Wes speaking. Leslie Bell --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Dave H. Crusoe dhcru...@projectkir.org wrote: From: Dave H. Crusoe dhcru...@projectkir.org Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Wes Skiles To: Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com Cc: Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu, Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 3:57 PM The National Geographic tribute: http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2010/07/national-geographic-photographer-wes-skiles-dies.html On Jul 22, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Josh Rubinstein wrote: Here is some more information. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/national-geographic-freelance-photographer-drowns-off-boynton-beach-817521.html Josh On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: Very sad news indeed. I was just looking at Wes' beautiful photography of the Bahama blue holes in the new Nat Geo issue yesterday. I served with Wes on a past NSS video salon jury and have a collection of his programs--the best underwater cave imagery I've ever seen. I'll be looking at his videos tonight and thinking about what an incredible contribution he made in his life. Frank On 7/22/10 6:03 AM, Fofo Gonzalez gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Hello. Wes Skiles, famous cave diver and explorer, died yesterday during a National Geographic work dive off West Palm Beach. I don't have more information now, but this is sad news. - Fofo
RE: [ot_caving] What is this?
Here we go again. This one's easy. It's the power steering reservoir cap from the photographer's automobile that somehow got in front of the camera lens. Any more questions? Carnac the magnificient. From: Bill Bentley [mailto:ca...@caver.net] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:55 PM To: Off-Topic Texas Cavers Subject: [ot_caving] What is this? http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=enie=UTF8ll=47.978647,0.208614spn=0.001291,0.002411t=kz=19
[Texascavers] Brown Bag Lunch presentation - Charles Porter - Wednesday, August 4 at 11:55 AM at the Edwards Aquifer Authority
FYI, for those interested in water issues in the greater Edwards Aquifer/San Antonio area. Geary Edwards Aquifer Philosophical Society - aka brown bag luncheon Wednesday, August 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM Conference Room Edwards Aquifer Authority 1615 N. St. Mary's Street, San Antonio, TX We are pleased to announce that Mr. Charles Porter, Author and Adjunct Professor at St. Edwards University, will be making a presentation titled Tales of the Common Pool, Unintended Consequences. The presentation will be held on Wednesday, August 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, at the Edwards Aquifer Authority Conference Room. These are informal presentations so please feel free to bring your lunch. For directions or further information, the Authority may be contacted at 210-222-2204 or www.edwardsaquifer.orghttp://www.edwardsaquifer.org Thank you. Geary M. Schindel, P.G. Chief Technical Officer Charles Porter Tales of the Common Pool, Unintended Consequences Abstract The first public water policies in Texas history concerning allocation, rights, and management were made in San Antonio by the Spanish settlers beginning in 1709. As the mission era started along the San Antonio River in 1718, water became the practice field and classroom for diverse people to learn how to live together in community. These early Spanish water policies form the foundation for much of our current water law and management practices.As Spanish civil law changed to English common law after the adoption of the Constitution of 1840, water morphed from Spanish water, a natural resource available to everyone free of charge to Anglo water, a commodity to be bought and sold by those able to afford it. San Antonio's acequia system, eventually comprising some 50 miles in combined length, became the first municipal water system in the future United States. As the city grew, the acequias became a source of water borne diseases such as the dreaded cholera. After the Mexican War of 1848, and especially after the Civil War, San Antonio's population growth completely overwhelmed the old open-ditch system of water delivery prompting the city to contract with a private company, the San Antonio Water Works Company, to install the first underground pipe water infrastructure to deliver water from the river to the citizens and businesses at their doorstep. George W. Brackenridge, owner of San Antonio National Bank, the first nationally chartered bank in the city, eventually became the controlling shareholder and President of the new water company. By 1890, the river ceased to have the capacity to provide enough pure water for the burgeoning population. In order to comply with the city contract, Brackenridge drilled the first deep wells into the Edward's Aquifer. Although the first few wells he drilled were inadequate, in 1891, two powerful artesian wells were successfully drilled by Brackenridge's contractor, M. C. Judson. Brackenridge's wells fulfilled the obligations under the city contract, but with many unintended consequences, especially for his own homestead property. By 1920, over 120 deep wells had been drilled into the aquifer by the water works company and other businesses and individuals. My presentation will examine the history of water rights and management in San Antonio from 1709 to 1902, from eyewitness descriptions of the breathtaking beauty of the living springs, through all the years of conflict and controversy over water, finishing with a discussion of some of the challenges which we face today as an undeclared water war between rural and urban interests brews. In the words of David Weber of Southern Methodist University, water doesn't run downhill, it runs towards money. Biography Charles R. Porter is an adjunct professor at St. Edward's University, Austin, Texas and is a testifying expert in water rights, real estate, and construction nationwide. At St. Edward's he teaches Water Workshops, Cultural Foundation courses such as Global Issues in Water, Capstone (justice in public policy controversies), American Experience, American Dilemmas, and all types of History courses. His book on Spanish water law in Texas, Spanish Water/Anglo Water has recently been released by Texas AM University Press. He teaches core and continuing education courses for the Texas Real Estate Commission and the course he authored Water Rights for Texas Agents won the award for Best Ethics Continuing Education Program in the state in 2008. He is the recipient of the 2009 Robert Weddle Award given by the Texas Catholic Historical Society for his article published in Catholic Southwest, Querétaro in Focus: the Franciscan Missionary Colleges and the Texas Missions.
Re: [Texascavers] FW: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper!
If only we could get the cavers' dogs to act like that at TCR!!! -Original Message- From: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com Sent: Jul 22, 2010 6:29 PM To: Off-Topic Texas Cavers o...@texascavers.com, texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] FW: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper! OT BUT EVERYONE WILL ENJOY THIS. FRITZ From: CR [mailto:c...@wt.net] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:24 PM To: Bob Germany Subject: Fw: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper! Take a breather..forget your problems for a few minutes get ready to smile http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=pkPNa4DBFHI - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] FW: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper!
They are OK as long as they don't pee on my sleeping bag which is always in the open. Fritz -Original Message- From: Rod Goke [mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 6:24 AM To: Fritz Holt; Off-Topic Texas Cavers; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] FW: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper! If only we could get the cavers' dogs to act like that at TCR!!! -Original Message- From: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com Sent: Jul 22, 2010 6:29 PM To: Off-Topic Texas Cavers o...@texascavers.com, texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] FW: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper! OT BUT EVERYONE WILL ENJOY THIS. FRITZ From: CR [mailto:c...@wt.net] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:24 PM To: Bob Germany Subject: Fw: A day at the beach - this is SUCH an upper! Take a breather..forget your problems for a few minutes get ready to smile http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=pkPNa4DBFHI - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] first cave trip
Not everyone advocates waiting for a kid to understand caves or to express an interest in caving before taking the child to a cave. Some second generation cavers claim to have gone caving with their mothers before they were even born. They don't remember these early caving trips, of course, but they do remember hearing later about how their mothers had gone caving while pregnant, and they sometimes enjoy the bragging rights when cavers swap stories about how young they were when they started caving. So what are you waiting for, Dave? You're already late! ;-) Actually, I think the age of a child's first caving experience is not nearly as important as how the child feel's about doing it. If she enjoys the initial experiences and feels that caving is something neat you're letting her do, then there's a good chance she'll develop further interest in it and will grow up proud to be a second generation caver, especially if she associates with other young cavers who reinforce her interest in it as she grows up. On the other hand, if she grows up feeling that it's something her parents pushed her to do or that it's an activity associated only with her parents' generation and not with her generation, then she'll probably learn to avoid caving. That, of course, is true not just for caving, but for most activities that parents introduce to their children. Rod -Original Message- From: Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com Sent: Jul 22, 2010 2:17 PM To: David McClung david.mccl...@sbcglobal.net, texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] first cave trip Surely you'll want her to remember her first caving trip? If so you're gonna have to wait until she's about 3. Stefan From: David McClung [mailto:david.mccl...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:32 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] first cave trip i got a 5 month old mini caver that will need to go caving for the first time and wondered if anybody has a suggestion on a good cave to go to. I will wait till shes maybe a year old or so. or maybe not. chow, dave mc -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] first cave trip
Dave, I believe the first cave experience for my two youngest was either Longhorn or Inner Space. Both easy walking caves, especially, if you're having to carry a young un. My shoulder still hurts! Good luck! Mark From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:caverp...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:23 PM To: David McClung Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] first cave trip I have a picture of the kid peering into Floyd's coffin. He was still in diapers. - Pete How he got into diapers, I'll never know! Sorry, Pete! I couldn't resist. (With credit given to Groucho Marx). On Jul 22, 2010, at 11:32 AM, David McClung wrote: i got a 5 month old mini caver that will need to go caving for the first time and wondered if anybody has a suggestion on a good cave to go to. I will wait till shes maybe a year old or so. or maybe not. chow, dave mc
RE: [Texascavers] first cave trip
If the area is convenient, I still say the best cave to carry a child into is Avery Ranch Cave at Cedar Park. I'm sure Mike Walsh will be happy to give a personal, guided tour of all hundred or so feet. The formations are incredibly nice for such a small cave. It has a nice stairway cut into rock, making it easy when carrying a child. Who wouldn't enjoy a first visit if you were carried in and out. I should know. Fritz -Original Message- From: Rod Goke [mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 6:00 AM To: Stefan Creaser; David McClung; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] first cave trip Not everyone advocates waiting for a kid to understand caves or to express an interest in caving before taking the child to a cave. Some second generation cavers claim to have gone caving with their mothers before they were even born. They don't remember these early caving trips, of course, but they do remember hearing later about how their mothers had gone caving while pregnant, and they sometimes enjoy the bragging rights when cavers swap stories about how young they were when they started caving. So what are you waiting for, Dave? You're already late! ;-) Actually, I think the age of a child's first caving experience is not nearly as important as how the child feel's about doing it. If she enjoys the initial experiences and feels that caving is something neat you're letting her do, then there's a good chance she'll develop further interest in it and will grow up proud to be a second generation caver, especially if she associates with other young cavers who reinforce her interest in it as she grows up. On the other hand, if she grows up feeling that it's something her parents pushed her to do or that it's an activity associated only with her parents' generation and not with her generation, then she'll probably learn to avoid caving. That, of course, is true not just for caving, but for most activities that parents introduce to their children. Rod -Original Message- From: Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com Sent: Jul 22, 2010 2:17 PM To: David McClung david.mccl...@sbcglobal.net, texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] first cave trip Surely you'll want her to remember her first caving trip? If so you're gonna have to wait until she's about 3. Stefan From: David McClung [mailto:david.mccl...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:32 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] first cave trip i got a 5 month old mini caver that will need to go caving for the first time and wondered if anybody has a suggestion on a good cave to go to. I will wait till shes maybe a year old or so. or maybe not. chow, dave mc -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Mythes, Realities, and Suspicions about Photognomes
Given Louise's recent comments about speedy Photognomes and Gills suspicions that these mischievous pranksters were responsible for Photoshopping curious structures into the satellite photos of certain Mexican ponds, I think we need to clear up a few misconceptions about Photognomes and what they do. First, there is ample reason to believe that Photognomes, as Louise calls them, really do exist and that they can, and sometimes do, use Photoshop or some similar software tools to edit satellite photos provided to us by Google. I'm afraid, however, that Louise is slightly misinformed about where the Photognomes reside and the speed with which they do their deeds. I hope I'm not disillusioning anyone too brutally here, but the satellite views provided to us by Google are not sent directly to our computers from the satellites in real time. Instead, they are pieced together from many separate satellite photos, which may have been taken at different times, perhaps months or even years earlier in some cases. Consequently, the Photognomes don't have to ride around on satellites, editing images in real time. Instead, they have plenty of time to do their work right here on earth, much as would a typical human Photoshop user. They don't have to work with superhuman speed or even be real gnomes. In fact, I'll bet that most of them are Earthbound humans working for Google with Google's computers and software tools. What is it that Photognomes actually do? Well, somebody or something has to select the appropriate satellite photos and combine them together into a format that can be displayed to us by Google as a seemingly large continuous image, and this computerized representation has to be continually updated, partly as a result of newer photos becoming available, and partly as a result of changing demands and policies about what may and may not be shown to the public. Much of this work is probably automated, but there is little doubt that at least some humans are involved in the process and that they have the technical ability to modify images with Photoshop or some similar photo editing software before the images are made available to the public. There have been many reports of images being modified to obscure information that governments or other organizations considered sensitive for security reasons, as detailed on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_map_images_with_missing_or_unclear_data Hence, there really is reason to believe that Google's human Photognomes can and sometimes do modify satellite images. Were any of these Photognomes mischievous enough to have Photoshopped strange patterns into the satellite images of two curious ponds near Almagre as a prank, as Gill suggested? Personally, I very much doubt that anyone actually did, but I can't deny that it is possible. It certainly is conceivable that someone in Google could have had the technical means and opportunity to do it. Gill's hypothesis is very difficult to prove or disprove. It is almost impossible to rule out on the basis of image analysis alone, because practically any pattern could be inserted into a digital image in this manner. Sometimes, forensic analysis of a digital image can reveal evidence that an image was modified, but it is virtually impossible for this kind of analysis to prove that an image was not modified. Generally, the best that can be said is, We couldn't find any evidence of tampering, so the image might be genuine. Some of the more common forensic analysis techniques are inconclusive in the curious ponds case. For example, one techniques is to examine shadows in different parts of the same picture to see if they imply contradictory information about the light source or sources. Within the curious pond patterns, however, considerable uncertainty exists about which, if any, of the dark lines and rectangles are actually shadows, so we can't be sure what, if anything, they imply about light sources. Similarly, one can compare image sizes of recognizable objects in different portions of a picture to see if they imply contradictory information about camera-to-subject distances, but this is not applicable to the curious pond patterns, because we can't recognize any objects of known size within the suspicious patterns. Another basic forensic technique is to see if a suspicious portion of an image matches some other portion of the image and, hence, was most likely copied. The patterns in the ponds, however, obviously don't resemble anything else in the vicinity, so if they were copied from somewhere, we have no idea where. Until we get more definitive information about what really caused the curious pond patterns or until someone does far more detailed forensic analysis than what I think any of us are willing to do, we probably will never know for sure whether or not Gill's suspicions about a Photognome prank are correct. Rod -Original Message-
Re: [Texascavers] Mythes, Realities, and Suspicions about Photognomes
As an interesting side note to this dramatic and terrifying exchange of ideas and thoughts, http://iwl.me/ identifies Rod Goke's writing style to be similar to Edgar Allen Poe. -No Kidding! Wavy Caver On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Rod Goke rod.g...@earthlink.net wrote: Given Louise's recent comments about speedy Photognomes and Gills suspicions that these mischievous pranksters were responsible for Photoshopping curious structures into the satellite photos of certain Mexican ponds, I think we need to clear up a few misconceptions about Photognomes and what they do. First, there is ample reason to believe that Photognomes, as Louise calls them, really do exist and that they can, and sometimes do, use Photoshop or some similar software tools to edit satellite photos provided to us by Google. I'm afraid, however, that Louise is slightly misinformed about where the Photognomes reside and the speed with which they do their deeds. I hope I'm not disillusioning anyone too brutally here, but the satellite views provided to us by Google are not sent directly to our computers from the satellites in real time. Instead, they are pieced together from many separate satellite photos, which may have been taken at different times, perhaps months or even years earlier in some cases. Consequently, the Photognomes don't have to ride around on satellites, editing images in real time. Instead, they have plenty of time to do their work right here on earth, much as would a typical human Photoshop user. They don't have to work with superhuman speed or even be real gnomes. In fact, I'll bet that most of them are Earthbound humans working for Google with Google's computers and software tools. What is it that Photognomes actually do? Well, somebody or something has to select the appropriate satellite photos and combine them together into a format that can be displayed to us by Google as a seemingly large continuous image, and this computerized representation has to be continually updated, partly as a result of newer photos becoming available, and partly as a result of changing demands and policies about what may and may not be shown to the public. Much of this work is probably automated, but there is little doubt that at least some humans are involved in the process and that they have the technical ability to modify images with Photoshop or some similar photo editing software before the images are made available to the public. There have been many reports of images being modified to obscure information that governments or other organizations considered sensitive for security reasons, as detailed on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_map_images_with_missing_or_unclear_data Hence, there really is reason to believe that Google's human Photognomes can and sometimes do modify satellite images. Were any of these Photognomes mischievous enough to have Photoshopped strange patterns into the satellite images of two curious ponds near Almagre as a prank, as Gill suggested? Personally, I very much doubt that anyone actually did, but I can't deny that it is possible. It certainly is conceivable that someone in Google could have had the technical means and opportunity to do it. Gill's hypothesis is very difficult to prove or disprove. It is almost impossible to rule out on the basis of image analysis alone, because practically any pattern could be inserted into a digital image in this manner. Sometimes, forensic analysis of a digital image can reveal evidence that an image was modified, but it is virtually impossible for this kind of analysis to prove that an image was not modified. Generally, the best that can be said is, We couldn't find any evidence of tampering, so the image might be genuine. Some of the more common forensic analysis techniques are inconclusive in the curious ponds case. For example, one techniques is to examine shadows in different parts of the same picture to see if they imply contradictory information about the light source or sources. Within the curious pond patterns, however, considerable uncertainty exists about which, if any, of the dark lines and rectangles are actually shadows, so we can't be sure what, if anything, they imply about light sources. Similarly, one can compare image sizes of recognizable objects in different portions of a picture to see if they imply contradictory information about camera-to-subject distances, but this is not applicable to the curious pond patterns, because we can't recognize any objects of known size within the suspicious patterns. Another basic forensic technique is to see if a suspicious portion of an image matches some other portion of the image and, hence, was most likely copied. The patterns in the ponds, however, obviously don't resemble anything else in the vicinity, so if they were copied from somewhere, we have no idea where. Until we get more definitive information about what
Re: [Texascavers] Mythes, Realities, and Suspicions about Photognomes
Nevermore! ;) -Original Message- From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com Sent: Jul 23, 2010 12:14 PM To: Rod Goke rod.g...@ieee.org Cc: Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com, Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Mythes, Realities, and Suspicions about Photognomes As an interesting side note to this dramatic and terrifying exchange of ideas and thoughts, http://iwl.me/ identifies Rod Goke's writing style to be similar to Edgar Allen Poe. -No Kidding! Wavy Caver - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Mythes, Realities, and Suspicions about Photognomes
Rod, Thanks for the analysis. Having worked with Photoshop since 1988, I'm well aware of it's possibilities and the work involved. Really appreciated, however, the information on photomapping. I'm sure people who have never worked on it before really enjoyed it. Louise
[Texascavers] WNS money
In my view, tax dollars for WNS research is just special-interest pork for WNS scientists and their assistants. What, realistically, might be discovered that is actually useful to _bats_, not just a few people's wallets? Hard to absolutely prove nothing, but I wouldn't bet a nickel of my own money on it. Read Tom Aley's article in the February NSS News about possible WNS management strategies. Aley does recommend more research, but then he has to--he's a member of the scientists' union. If you do write, don't just copy that letter. Most congressmen aren't stupid, despite all appearances to the contrary, and they spot a letter-writing campaign for what it's worth. -- Mixon May the last lawyer be strangled with the entrials of the last priest. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Landslide in Italy
A minute or two or a slowly moving landslide and a lot of frustrated authoritative types who can't do anything about it. http://sorisomail.com/email/42722/ja-viram-desmoronar-uma-montanha.htmlhttp://sorisomail.com/email/42722/ja-viram-desmoronar-uma-montanha.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
