Re: Question....
We are thought of as the TCR cooks, so let's use tcrco...@texascavers.com. The other events are secondary to the main idea. Terry H. On 11/1/2010 8:24 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: Do you want it to be tcrco...@texascavers.com, cooks@ or something like that? Don't you also cook for the TSA convention, so maybe cooks@ might be more fitting. I also archive all emails over at groups.google.com for the mailing lists. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Terry Holsingertr...@sprynet.com wrote: Well lets start with me, Stefan (see email in cc above) yourself if interested and tcrco...@yahoo.com (as our backup/archive email). We will notify the other cooks after we get set up and then make an announcement on cavetex as we DO want the input (good and bad) of all our eaters. Terry H. On 10/31/2010 8:05 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: Sure thing Terry, and it won't cost a dime, do you have a list of email addresses, or do you wanna have them subscribe themselves, how Cavetex is done now? On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Terry Holsingertr...@sprynet.com wrote: In the recent past you set up the OT (off topic) sub-list for Texascaver.com list serve. What all is involved in this, in other words is it easy and cheap? If that is so might it be possible to set up another sub-list for use by the tcrcooks so we do not upset too many folks but allow others to have there say? Terry H.
Google Groups: You've created the new group TCRCooks
Hello wok...@gmail.com, Congratulations: you've successfully created your Google Group, TCRCooks. Here are the essentials: * Group name: TCRCooks * Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/tcrcooks * Group email address tcrco...@googlegroups.com And here are links to a few more Google Group-related goodies: * Change group settings: http://groups.google.com/group/tcrcooks/manage * Invite more users: http://groups.google.com/group/tcrcooks/members_invite If you have questions about this or any other group, please visit the Google Groups Help Center at http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en. Enjoy your group and make us proud! The Google Groups Team
[Texascavers] Bat Science
The latest in bat-related research: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-11/bat-research-inspires-disciplines-far-beyond-biology. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Sinkhole Opens in German Town
The latest urban sinkhole: http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Massive-crater-opens-up-German-town-aerial-view-shows-giant-landslide-residential-street-taking-car-and/ss/events/wl/110110germanycrater/im:/101101/ids_photos_wl/r971154613.jpg/. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
texascavers Digest 2 Nov 2010 20:04:50 -0000 Issue 1187
texascavers Digest 2 Nov 2010 20:04:50 - Issue 1187 Topics (messages 16475 through 16484): Re: the Sanctum incident 16475 by: Jon UT Grotto Meeting - Wednesday November 3, 2010 16476 by: Gary Franklin Re: Medford Mail-Tribune Story on Rabies 16477 by: Louise Power Re: The Wilderness Below now on YouTube 16478 by: caverarch.aol.com 16479 by: Frank Binney Re: a few cave photos 16480 by: caverarch.aol.com Bat Science 16481 by: Mark Minton Sinkhole Opens in German Town 16482 by: Mark Minton Re: English-Spanish caving dictionary 16483 by: David 16484 by: Espeleo Coahuila Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Thanks Bill for that research Jon --- On Sat, 10/30/10, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com Subject: [Texascavers] the Sanctum incident To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Saturday, October 30, 2010, 11:55 AM From Martyn Farr's The Darkness Beckons: The History and Development of Cave Diving: In December 1988 a massive expedition was undertaken with the objective not only of pushing the cave [Pannikin Plains Cave, Australia] as far as possible but also of recording the exploit on film. The venture was an international event with invited participants such as the leading American diver Wes Skiles and Rob Palmer from Britain. With a full complement of equipment and experienced personnel, the cave was extended to its present limit of 2150m. Here a boulder blockage was encountered, an obstacle which may conceivably yield to a streamlined diver. The expedition was a major success, but undoubtedly the most exciting event took place during the final retreat from the cave. It was 3:40 p.m. in the afternon when virtually the full team assembled on the subetrranean lakeside and started unloading the equipment which had just arrived from the depth of the system. On the surface a freak cyclone hit the area, destroying the camp and, within a period of twenty-five minutes, depositing more than twice the area's annual rainfull. Before those underground became aware of the magnitude of the event a torrent of water poured into the vertical shaft, causing a massive landslide and collapse. Miraculously, despite a hail of boulders crashing into the chamber at the bottom, no one was injured. The exit route was completely blocked and thirteen of the team were effectively entombed. With an air of calm resignation, they set about organising themselves for survival for an unknown length of time. Fortunately radio communication was established within hours of the disaster. An escape route through the chaos of boulders was pioneered the next day, and all arrived safely on the surface by 8:00 p.m. on Saturday. Their equipment, valued at over Australian $200,000, had to be left where it lay, to await retreival after a suitable period of natural stabilisation. --Bill Mixon All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Howdy Caver, You are cordially invited to attend the Underground Texas Grotto meeting on November 3, 2010. Turn off the television, get away from the house, and spend your evening with some Austin cavers. The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. University of Texas Campus in 3.02 Painter Hall NOTE: THE ROOM NUMBER CHANGE to 3.02 PAI http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html The Program for the evening will be presented by Peter Sprouse as *Continued Exploration of the Deep Pits of Muzquiz*. This is an ongoing project searching for a conduit to the waters that feed springs downdip in this region. Come out to see how much fun these caving expeditions to Muzquiz Coahuila are while exploring the unique vertical geology. For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.orgAll of our information including officer contact info, trips reports, new caver training, event calendar, and posting links to beginner trips or vertical rope training are available. Before the meetings, some
[Texascavers] TPWD cancelled
Per 11/2/10 news release, TPWD is postponing action on the Devil's River proposal and may schedule more public meetings: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20101102b
[NMCAVER] FW: A Follow-up WNS Meeting, Monday, November 8, in Carlsbad Albuquerque
Hi folks, I just received the following and am posting it for everyone's attention. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. From: linda_rund...@nm.blm.gov Subject: A Follow-up WNS Meeting, Monday, November 8, in Carlsbad Albuquerque To: gv...@nckri.org; ll...@gis.nmt.edu; ken_harring...@hotmail.com; wthrsw...@carlsbadnm.com; frank.ever...@gmail.com; r...@innerrealmbooks.com; p...@innerrealmbooks.com; william.tuc...@att.net; bel...@valornet.com; bels...@valornet.com; dgilles...@nckri.org; deserttr...@msn.com; cavexplo...@me.com; bill.wes...@wipp.ws; skin...@thuntek.net; gyp...@gmail.com; caverp...@gmail.com; klairwa...@gmail.com; dave.dec...@caves.org; john_j_corcoran@msn.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; guinnes...@aol.com; kief...@unm.edu; caver...@yahoo.com; wcwal...@zianet.com; gypca...@comcast.net; nmba...@zianet.com; robw...@wwdb.org; dnort...@unm.edu; ing...@explorenm.com; edbu...@plateautel.net; hun...@nmt.edu; johnburkehiss...@hotmail.com; barbebar...@gmail.com; speleob...@comcast.com; nmtca...@nmt.edu; presid...@sandiagrotto.org; vicepresid...@sandiagrotto.org; ruica...@yahoo.com; eric-br...@windstream.net; swca...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 15:00:06 -0600 To: WNS Cavers You're invited to a meeting with representatives of the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Forest Service, National Park Service, and New Mexico Game and Fish Department to discuss the development and implementation of the New Mexico White Nose Syndrome (WNS) Response Plan. This Plan was developed with input gathered during the first series of meetings we had with cavers and cave researchers in July. The Response Plan provides a strategy to reduce or slow the disease's westward movement and protect New Mexico's bat populations. Two meetings will be held on Monday, November 8 from 6:30 – 8 p.m. at the following locations: Carlsbad Public Library Annex, 101 S. Halagueno, Carlsbad, NM Albuquerque BLM District Office, 435 Montano Road, Albuquerque, NM We want to share with you the Response Plan, the criteria used for defining a Significant Bat Roost for Southwestern bat species, and determine who among you may be interested in assisting the agencies with cave signing/gating, monitoring of WNS, or other projects associated with WNS. Thank you for your consideration of these meetings, we look forward to meeting with you next week. You're welcome to share this invitation with other interested cavers and cave researchers. Please contact Donna Hummel at 505-954-2019 or dhum...@blm.gov with your RSVP to one of the meetings or if you have any questions or need additional details about the meetings. Invitees: National Cave and Karst Research Institute NSS - Southwestern Region, Guadalupe Grotto, Hondo Grotto, Mesilla Valley Grotto, Pajarito Grotto, Pecos Valley Grotto, Sandia Grotto, Sierra Blanca Grotto, White Sands Grotto, New Mexico Tech Student Grotto Cave Research Foundation - Southwest Operations Fort Stanton Cave Study Project Attendees of the July meetings ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
[Texascavers] spanish lessons good work
Thanks Moni - so few of go to mexico actually able to communicate with the locals. and it is always fun to get the slang versions of how people reaally talk. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[PBSS] (no subject)
http://edoardoscata.com/to.php ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
Re: [PBSS] (no subject)
Karen your email is now placed in moderation for the PBSS and NMcaver mailing lists as it has evidently been hijacked and is sending out SPAM... Thanks, Bill - Original Message - From: Karen Perry To: jlrbi...@sonoratx.net ; w48...@comcast.net ; stan_alli...@nps.gov ; d_e_bunn...@yahoo.com ; p...@caver.net ; dale_p...@nps.gov ; tom_be...@nps.gov ; dbol...@msn.com ; r...@roywillis.com Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: [PBSS] (no subject) http://edoardoscata.com/to.php -- ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
[Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave on TV
Video link: http://www.woai.com/content/news/beamer/story/Beamer-takes-you-deep-under-San-Antonio-into/SKq37ZNwQ0eU9QwyvDCbGw.cspx Beamer takes you deep under San Antonio into Robber Baron Cave Reported by: Randy Beamer Email: randybea...@woaitv.com Published: 11/01 7:46 pm ShareThis Updated: 7:15 am Deep under San Antonio lies a long-forgotten piece of history. Robber Baron Cave was a tourist attraction until it was sealed off decades ago. But with the help of a scientist doing new research, Randy Beamer takes you deep inside the historic cave. Joe Mitchell and I are all suited up in caving gear, with boots, elbow and knee pads, gloves, and miner's helmets with lights on top. On Joe it looks natural. Me -- not so much. Maybe it's because Joe is a scientist in his day job and his passion is caving. Caving is what the hardcore call the sport and science of exploring caves -- which some still call spelunking. But Joe is about to be more of a tour guide, giving me a history and science lesson of a cave he's been researching for some time. In fact, Joe just re-drew the map of San Antonio's Robber Baron Cave, using old surveys, measurements he's taken himself, and new computer software. And he continues digging into the unusual history of it using newly available documents -- many of them old newspaper archives digitally scanned and made searchable by computer. Over a picnic table in the landscaped lot above the entrance, Joe points out different features of the cave which lies 40-60 feet beneath our feet. Here at the edge of the sinkhole leading down to the cave opening, was a concession stand decades ago. A black and white photo documents that you could buy hot dogs and sodas there, back in the days when you could also pay 50 cents for a tour. But most people in San Antonio have never heard of it because since the 1930's the different owners have done their best to block off the entrance with metal gates, trash, even a concrete bunker. That bunker was finally blasted away a few years back and a non-profit group called the Texas Cave Management Association now operates it as a preserve. And before you ask -- no -- it's still not open to the general public and not likely to be - ever. That's largely because of the threat of vandalism and people getting lost inside the maze of natural tunnels. So there are more gates to keep out the curious, which Joe Mitchell unlocks to let me squeeze in. Just inside the entrance is an area about the size of a small office. I'm optimistic, thinking this might not trigger any claustrophobia in me. Joe assures me there are smaller challenges ahead. We can show you a lot tighter areas in the cave,Mitchell says. There are passages just big enough for your body to go through and no bigger. I had to ask. A short time later I'm looking at a passage they describe as 18 inches high and three feet wide. To me that looks like a gross overestimation, but I'm committed to get the full caving experience. I ask for any last bit of advice before hoisting myself into the shrinking void. Thrash and flail, I thought I heard Joe say. Excuse me? Thrash and flail, he repeats, laughing. It means get through however you can. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Fw: Speaker for Capital Area Master Naturalist Needed
Anyone interested? Thanks, Mark - Forwarded Message From: Stuart Bailey sbai...@aoma.edu To: chair...@cavetexas.org Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 11:24:15 AM Subject: Speaker for Capital Area Master Naturalist Dear Mark Alman, I am inquiring as to the possibility of having one of your members come and speak to our group. The master naturalist group is a volunteer organization through the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. We are very interested in all things natural and outside. I thought y’all might have a speaker who could talk about different caves around Central Texas with photos and stories. Please let me know if you or someone else in your group would be available for such a talk. We meet the last Wednesday of each month. Our next opening is November 17th – next to last Wednesday b/c of Thanksgiving. I look forward to meeting you. Sincerely, Stuart Bailey Facility Manager Academy of Oriental Medicine at Austin 2700 West Anderson Lane, #512 Austin, TX 78757 cell - (512) 784-7994 office - (512) 492-3033 www.aoma.edu Transforming Lives and Communities through Graduate Education in Oriental Medicine. This message, including attachments, contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual(s) named. Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Do not disseminate, distribute or copy this email without permission. Please notify the sender immediately by email if you have received this email by mistake, and delete this email from your system.
[NMCAVER] (no subject)
http://nucleopsicologia.org/to.php ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] (no subject)
Karen your email is now placed in moderation for the PBSS and NMcaver mailing lists as it has evidently been hijacked and is sending out SPAM... Thanks, Bill - Original Message - From: Karen Perry To: william.tuc...@att.net ; her...@cavechat.org ; ll...@nckri.org ; ca...@caver.net ; gb...@msn.com ; r...@willis.com ; west_txskingodd...@yahoo.com ; nmca...@caver.net ; doctor...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:47 PM http://nucleopsicologia.org/to.php ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Cooks list setup
Just a test of functionality. Terry, reply to all if you would to make sure things are working. The email to subscribe is tcrcooks-subscr...@texascavers.com and the email to post is tcrco...@texascavers.com And to prevent spammers from hitting, I'll be approving new subscribers, same as I do on the main list. Let me know if you have any questions Charles
Re: Cooks list setup
One other thing, this is archived at http://groups.google.com/group/tcrcooks/topics and it may make you signup or attach it to your gmail if you have one, but its there in case I have an unforseen crash of my server and can't retrieve old messages. On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: Just a test of functionality. Terry, reply to all if you would to make sure things are working. The email to subscribe is tcrcooks-subscr...@texascavers.com and the email to post is tcrco...@texascavers.com And to prevent spammers from hitting, I'll be approving new subscribers, same as I do on the main list. Let me know if you have any questions Charles
RE: [tcrcooks] Re: Cooks list setup
It's coming to me, thanks! From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 9:44 AM To: tcrco...@texascavers.com Subject: [tcrcooks] Re: Cooks list setup One other thing, this is archived at http://groups.google.com/group/tcrcooks/topics and it may make you signup or attach it to your gmail if you have one, but its there in case I have an unforseen crash of my server and can't retrieve old messages. On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgmailto:wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just a test of functionality. Terry, reply to all if you would to make sure things are working. The email to subscribe is tcrcooks-subscr...@texascavers.commailto:tcrcooks-subscr...@texascavers.com and the email to post is tcrco...@texascavers.commailto:tcrco...@texascavers.com And to prevent spammers from hitting, I'll be approving new subscribers, same as I do on the main list. Let me know if you have any questions Charles -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
Re: [Texascavers] English-Spanish caving dictionary
The dictionary seems like a helpful resource.Being able to use some of these words in a conversation would most likely require a very basic knowledge of the language the caver is trying to speak or write about. I only see a few words missing that are used by some Mexican cavers and also foreign cavers in Mexico. Resumidero El guano Helectita ? Cuevero ( and los cueveros ) ( slang for caver ) Pasaje Sector ( section of a cave ) Conectar and missing ( I think ) are words for break-down and twilight zone In a normal conversation, such as around camp, there might be some slang or colloquial adjective added to a word.Such as la pasage termina en un pinche sifon. ( as in frickin sump ) And it doesn't cover all the variations of a word, for example, it has the verb explorar, but not exploracion. Wikipedia in a foreign language is also a helpful tool: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano David Locklear
Fwd: [Texascavers] English-Spanish caving dictionary
Hello David You can use the word Resumidero to a Hole , where the water go out The word Guano or caca, popo or excremento (heces fecales) from bat. the word Helectita is the same in english Cuevero, espeleologo = caver Pasaje = Passage Sector is like a area, or a part of some place to explore (section of a cave) conectar or conexion = Connect example: we made a conexion in the cave!, the cave have a connection. bad words cabron: you can use in form offensive to someone or you can use this for said is a cabrona cave the best cave=very difficult or this man is a cabron in two different way cabron for bad things or good things. or you can use this word like a expression Ahi Cabron! is like a difficult situation. Pinche is a man who help in the kitchen or a person unfairly, if the cave is dificult with many extrange passage, is a pinche cave. Pendejo, this word you can use when a person is stupid all the time, or have a lot money: example: Only the pendejo drive a mustang, I want to be a Pendejo... is a joke, but the people use this word for many uses. Hijo de la chingada, is a offensive sentences but when we said, this cave is a hija de la chingada, is like a extremly dificult. Guey with G, is offensive word to someone. But the people use this word commonly in the day so, is like a hey cuate!, hey you! many people not remember the name of the person and say that, or only for friendly situation in a party, hey guey I need this, hi guey depends the form that you said and the modulation of your voice, the intention. I hope you can understand my ideas. My English is not good. hello from Mexico. Moni 2010/11/2 David dlocklea...@gmail.com The dictionary seems like a helpful resource.Being able to use some of these words in a conversation would most likely require a very basic knowledge of the language the caver is trying to speak or write about. I only see a few words missing that are used by some Mexican cavers and also foreign cavers in Mexico. Resumidero El guano Helectita ? Cuevero ( and los cueveros ) ( slang for caver ) Pasaje Sector ( section of a cave ) Conectar and missing ( I think ) are words for break-down and twilight zone In a normal conversation, such as around camp, there might be some slang or colloquial adjective added to a word.Such as la pasage termina en un pinche sifon. ( as in frickin sump ) And it doesn't cover all the variations of a word, for example, it has the verb explorar, but not exploracion. Wikipedia in a foreign language is also a helpful tool: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano David Locklear -- LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez San Antonio, Texas espeleocoahu...@gmail.com -- LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez San Antonio, Texas espeleocoahu...@gmail.com
Re: [Texascavers] English-Spanish caving dictionary
Yet another thing I did not sign to cavetex for, spanish curse words lessons. On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Espeleo Coahuila espeleocoahu...@gmail.comwrote: Hello David You can use the word Resumidero to a Hole , where the water go out The word Guano or caca, popo or excremento (heces fecales) from bat. the word Helectita is the same in english Cuevero, espeleologo = caver Pasaje = Passage Sector is like a area, or a part of some place to explore (section of a cave) conectar or conexion = Connect example: we made a conexion in the cave!, the cave have a connection. bad words cabron: you can use in form offensive to someone or you can use this for said is a cabrona cave the best cave=very difficult or this man is a cabron in two different way cabron for bad things or good things. or you can use this word like a expression Ahi Cabron! is like a difficult situation. Pinche is a man who help in the kitchen or a person unfairly, if the cave is dificult with many extrange passage, is a pinche cave. Pendejo, this word you can use when a person is stupid all the time, or have a lot money: example: Only the pendejo drive a mustang, I want to be a Pendejo... is a joke, but the people use this word for many uses. Hijo de la chingada, is a offensive sentences but when we said, this cave is a hija de la chingada, is like a extremly dificult. Guey with G, is offensive word to someone. But the people use this word commonly in the day so, is like a hey cuate!, hey you! many people not remember the name of the person and say that, or only for friendly situation in a party, hey guey I need this, hi guey depends the form that you said and the modulation of your voice, the intention. I hope you can understand my ideas. My English is not good. hello from Mexico. Moni 2010/11/2 David dlocklea...@gmail.com The dictionary seems like a helpful resource.Being able to use some of these words in a conversation would most likely require a very basic knowledge of the language the caver is trying to speak or write about. I only see a few words missing that are used by some Mexican cavers and also foreign cavers in Mexico. Resumidero El guano Helectita ? Cuevero ( and los cueveros ) ( slang for caver ) Pasaje Sector ( section of a cave ) Conectar and missing ( I think ) are words for break-down and twilight zone In a normal conversation, such as around camp, there might be some slang or colloquial adjective added to a word.Such as la pasage termina en un pinche sifon. ( as in frickin sump ) And it doesn't cover all the variations of a word, for example, it has the verb explorar, but not exploracion. Wikipedia in a foreign language is also a helpful tool: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano David Locklear -- LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez San Antonio, Texas espeleocoahu...@gmail.com -- LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez San Antonio, Texas espeleocoahu...@gmail.com
