[Texascavers] Some days you just should sleep in ....
Schoolboy in hospital after falling into a cave and being attacked by a hibernating bear By _Peter Allen_ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Peter+Allen) Last updated at 1:11 AM on 28th March 2011 A schoolboy skier was recovering in hospital today after being attacked by a bear in one of Europe’s biggest resorts. The youngster, who has not yet been named, fell into a cave in Funäsdalen, Sweden, while out on the slopes with his friends yesterday. He landed next to a hibernating bear who immediately woke up and began biting the boy. ‘It was a savage attack,’ said a local police spokesman. ‘The startled bear bit the boy on both legs, and ran his claws down his back. ‘The boy was able to free himself, however, and ran away from the animal. He was rushed to hospital in Ostersund where he was treated for very serious injuries.’ The police spokesman said the bear was later located but was not shot because he was not considered a further threat to civilians. Funasdalen, which is the third largest ski area in Sweden, is becoming increasingly popular with the British. It is made up of 10 resorts, including Funasdalen itself, and offers more than 24,000 hotel beds. The resorts are particularly well known for their wildlife, with bears, wolves and lynx all commonplace. A spokesman for the hospital in Ostersund said the boy was today ‘ recovering well’. _http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370420/Schoolboy-hospital-falling- cave-attacked-hibernating-bear.html_ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370420/Schoolboy-hospital-falling-cave-attacked-hibernating-bear.html)
[Texascavers] Some days you just should sleep in ....
Schoolboy in hospital after falling into a cave and being attacked by a hibernating bear By _Peter Allen_ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Peter+Allen) Last updated at 1:11 AM on 28th March 2011 A schoolboy skier was recovering in hospital today after being attacked by a bear in one of Europe’s biggest resorts. The youngster, who has not yet been named, fell into a cave in Funäsdalen, Sweden, while out on the slopes with his friends yesterday. He landed next to a hibernating bear who immediately woke up and began biting the boy. ‘It was a savage attack,’ said a local police spokesman. ‘The startled bear bit the boy on both legs, and ran his claws down his back. ‘The boy was able to free himself, however, and ran away from the animal. He was rushed to hospital in Ostersund where he was treated for very serious injuries.’ The police spokesman said the bear was later located but was not shot because he was not considered a further threat to civilians. Funasdalen, which is the third largest ski area in Sweden, is becoming increasingly popular with the British. It is made up of 10 resorts, including Funasdalen itself, and offers more than 24,000 hotel beds. The resorts are particularly well known for their wildlife, with bears, wolves and lynx all commonplace. A spokesman for the hospital in Ostersund said the boy was today ‘ recovering well’. _http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370420/Schoolboy-hospital-falling- cave-attacked-hibernating-bear.html_ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370420/Schoolboy-hospital-falling-cave-attacked-hibernating-bear.html)
[Texascavers] Some days you just should sleep in ....
Schoolboy in hospital after falling into a cave and being attacked by a hibernating bear By _Peter Allen_ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Peter+Allen) Last updated at 1:11 AM on 28th March 2011 A schoolboy skier was recovering in hospital today after being attacked by a bear in one of Europe’s biggest resorts. The youngster, who has not yet been named, fell into a cave in Funäsdalen, Sweden, while out on the slopes with his friends yesterday. He landed next to a hibernating bear who immediately woke up and began biting the boy. ‘It was a savage attack,’ said a local police spokesman. ‘The startled bear bit the boy on both legs, and ran his claws down his back. ‘The boy was able to free himself, however, and ran away from the animal. He was rushed to hospital in Ostersund where he was treated for very serious injuries.’ The police spokesman said the bear was later located but was not shot because he was not considered a further threat to civilians. Funasdalen, which is the third largest ski area in Sweden, is becoming increasingly popular with the British. It is made up of 10 resorts, including Funasdalen itself, and offers more than 24,000 hotel beds. The resorts are particularly well known for their wildlife, with bears, wolves and lynx all commonplace. A spokesman for the hospital in Ostersund said the boy was today ‘ recovering well’. _http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370420/Schoolboy-hospital-falling- cave-attacked-hibernating-bear.html_ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370420/Schoolboy-hospital-falling-cave-attacked-hibernating-bear.html)
[Texascavers] Bracketville and Kinney / Edwards County info
Here are some pictures and info of the Brackettville area: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3150629821_29684fc5e9_b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3647/3669787753_3287ef5c13_b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3336698447_12c4d0fb1f_z.jpg?zz=1 http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5253905297_d35e7b0dfb_b.jpg http://www.texascaves.org/images/history_03.jpg http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/CaveMaps/mapimages/stuardbatcave.gif http://www.yelp.com/biz/crazy-chicken-cafe-brackettville Also, for anyone itching to go to Acuna, I spent about an hour surfing the web to see what the situation is like. As long as you go during the day to the main tourist zone and are not driving a vehicle that the bad guys want to steal, then you should be o.k. One frequent visitor recommended a bar called the Macarena. I don't know it. It is said to be, "on Calle Madero, the main Mexican business street. If you head over the bridge, walk or drive down Hidalgo about five or six blocks, then go one block left until you hit the street called Madero." David Locklear Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brackettville,_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickapoo_Cavern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinney_County http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo_Village http://www.lapoliciaca.com/nota-roja/capturan-a-lider-de-banda-de-ladrones/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Bracketville and Kinney / Edwards County info
Here are some pictures and info of the Brackettville area: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3150629821_29684fc5e9_b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3647/3669787753_3287ef5c13_b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3336698447_12c4d0fb1f_z.jpg?zz=1 http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5253905297_d35e7b0dfb_b.jpg http://www.texascaves.org/images/history_03.jpg http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/CaveMaps/mapimages/stuardbatcave.gif http://www.yelp.com/biz/crazy-chicken-cafe-brackettville Also, for anyone itching to go to Acuna, I spent about an hour surfing the web to see what the situation is like. As long as you go during the day to the main tourist zone and are not driving a vehicle that the bad guys want to steal, then you should be o.k. One frequent visitor recommended a bar called the Macarena. I don't know it. It is said to be, "on Calle Madero, the main Mexican business street. If you head over the bridge, walk or drive down Hidalgo about five or six blocks, then go one block left until you hit the street called Madero." David Locklear Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brackettville,_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickapoo_Cavern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinney_County http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo_Village http://www.lapoliciaca.com/nota-roja/capturan-a-lider-de-banda-de-ladrones/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Bracketville and Kinney / Edwards County info
Here are some pictures and info of the Brackettville area: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3150629821_29684fc5e9_b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3647/3669787753_3287ef5c13_b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3336698447_12c4d0fb1f_z.jpg?zz=1 http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5253905297_d35e7b0dfb_b.jpg http://www.texascaves.org/images/history_03.jpg http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/CaveMaps/mapimages/stuardbatcave.gif http://www.yelp.com/biz/crazy-chicken-cafe-brackettville Also, for anyone itching to go to Acuna, I spent about an hour surfing the web to see what the situation is like. As long as you go during the day to the main tourist zone and are not driving a vehicle that the bad guys want to steal, then you should be o.k. One frequent visitor recommended a bar called the Macarena. I don't know it. It is said to be, "on Calle Madero, the main Mexican business street. If you head over the bridge, walk or drive down Hidalgo about five or six blocks, then go one block left until you hit the street called Madero." David Locklear Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brackettville,_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickapoo_Cavern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinney_County http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo_Village http://www.lapoliciaca.com/nota-roja/capturan-a-lider-de-banda-de-ladrones/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Seeking volunteer to transport and operate PA system for TSA convention
I agreed to provide PA sound equipment for use during the presentations and auction at the TSA Convention in Brackettville next weekend (April 1--3), and I told Ellie that either I would operate it myself if I attend the convention or I would loan it to someone else to take to the convention if I don't attend. I'm not certain yet whether or not I will attend, but it is looking increasingly impractical for me to do so. Consequently, I'd like to find a volunteer who can transport the PA system from Austin to the convention and back and who can set it up and operate it there if I don't go. Some prior familiarity with PA sound equipment would be desirable, but the equipment is fairly easy to use, and I can meet with the volunteer in Austin beforehand to explain how to set it up and operate it. This involves audio equipment only, NOT video projectors or computers, since, presumably, other people are taking care of any video equipment needs. (I will, however, include an appropriate cable to let someone with a computer play computer sound through the PA system, in case anyone wants to do that.)Please contact me directly if you can volunteer to do this.Thanks,Rod Gokerod.g...@ieee.org(512) 892-4186 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Seeking volunteer to transport and operate PA system for TSA convention
I agreed to provide PA sound equipment for use during the presentations and auction at the TSA Convention in Brackettville next weekend (April 1--3), and I told Ellie that either I would operate it myself if I attend the convention or I would loan it to someone else to take to the convention if I don't attend. I'm not certain yet whether or not I will attend, but it is looking increasingly impractical for me to do so. Consequently, I'd like to find a volunteer who can transport the PA system from Austin to the convention and back and who can set it up and operate it there if I don't go. Some prior familiarity with PA sound equipment would be desirable, but the equipment is fairly easy to use, and I can meet with the volunteer in Austin beforehand to explain how to set it up and operate it. This involves audio equipment only, NOT video projectors or computers, since, presumably, other people are taking care of any video equipment needs. (I will, however, include an appropriate cable to let someone with a computer play computer sound through the PA system, in case anyone wants to do that.)Please contact me directly if you can volunteer to do this.Thanks,Rod Gokerod.g...@ieee.org(512) 892-4186 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Seeking volunteer to transport and operate PA system for TSA convention
I agreed to provide PA sound equipment for use during the presentations and auction at the TSA Convention in Brackettville next weekend (April 1--3), and I told Ellie that either I would operate it myself if I attend the convention or I would loan it to someone else to take to the convention if I don't attend. I'm not certain yet whether or not I will attend, but it is looking increasingly impractical for me to do so. Consequently, I'd like to find a volunteer who can transport the PA system from Austin to the convention and back and who can set it up and operate it there if I don't go. Some prior familiarity with PA sound equipment would be desirable, but the equipment is fairly easy to use, and I can meet with the volunteer in Austin beforehand to explain how to set it up and operate it. This involves audio equipment only, NOT video projectors or computers, since, presumably, other people are taking care of any video equipment needs. (I will, however, include an appropriate cable to let someone with a computer play computer sound through the PA system, in case anyone wants to do that.)Please contact me directly if you can volunteer to do this.Thanks,Rod Gokerod.g...@ieee.org(512) 892-4186 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] an LED light review
Yesterday, I purchased the product below at Home Depot: http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/009/218/201/600/9218242_10844201_600.jpg They have had it for a while, so this may not be news. This is a very good purchase. This product is much more practical than a Coleman gas lantern or propane lantern. It is more practical than a fluorescent lantern.And in some ways more practical than a flashlight. I like it.It seems to be well constructed. The hexagonal ends allow you to lay it flat in 5 different directions, but I think only 2 of those are practical. This also keeps it from rolling like all the other competition does. It stands on its own, if you have a sturdy flat surface. It only has an 800 mAh battery, but it is NiMH. Since it is easily recharged, you can take it on road-trips and use for a variety of things that require light. It is not water resistant, but I bet it could be rigged with some duct-tape to make it better. It doesn't have a dimmer setting, which is the number one flaw to me. It does have a night light, but that only works when plugged in. This would be an excellent light for cavern tour guides, especially those doing lantern tours, like in Grutas de la Juxtlahuaca. I am going to recommend this product. I will keep this one, and might buy some more. David Locklear Ref: http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Work-Lights/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zbm8p/R-202532404/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=2 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] an LED light review
Yesterday, I purchased the product below at Home Depot: http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/009/218/201/600/9218242_10844201_600.jpg They have had it for a while, so this may not be news. This is a very good purchase. This product is much more practical than a Coleman gas lantern or propane lantern. It is more practical than a fluorescent lantern.And in some ways more practical than a flashlight. I like it.It seems to be well constructed. The hexagonal ends allow you to lay it flat in 5 different directions, but I think only 2 of those are practical. This also keeps it from rolling like all the other competition does. It stands on its own, if you have a sturdy flat surface. It only has an 800 mAh battery, but it is NiMH. Since it is easily recharged, you can take it on road-trips and use for a variety of things that require light. It is not water resistant, but I bet it could be rigged with some duct-tape to make it better. It doesn't have a dimmer setting, which is the number one flaw to me. It does have a night light, but that only works when plugged in. This would be an excellent light for cavern tour guides, especially those doing lantern tours, like in Grutas de la Juxtlahuaca. I am going to recommend this product. I will keep this one, and might buy some more. David Locklear Ref: http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Work-Lights/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zbm8p/R-202532404/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=2 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] an LED light review
Yesterday, I purchased the product below at Home Depot: http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/009/218/201/600/9218242_10844201_600.jpg They have had it for a while, so this may not be news. This is a very good purchase. This product is much more practical than a Coleman gas lantern or propane lantern. It is more practical than a fluorescent lantern.And in some ways more practical than a flashlight. I like it.It seems to be well constructed. The hexagonal ends allow you to lay it flat in 5 different directions, but I think only 2 of those are practical. This also keeps it from rolling like all the other competition does. It stands on its own, if you have a sturdy flat surface. It only has an 800 mAh battery, but it is NiMH. Since it is easily recharged, you can take it on road-trips and use for a variety of things that require light. It is not water resistant, but I bet it could be rigged with some duct-tape to make it better. It doesn't have a dimmer setting, which is the number one flaw to me. It does have a night light, but that only works when plugged in. This would be an excellent light for cavern tour guides, especially those doing lantern tours, like in Grutas de la Juxtlahuaca. I am going to recommend this product. I will keep this one, and might buy some more. David Locklear Ref: http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Work-Lights/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zbm8p/R-202532404/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=2 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Donation Reminder TCMA auction This Weekend!
Howdy Cavers, This is one last call for donations for the TCMA auction this weekend at convention. As you start packing your truck, don't forget to throw in those awesome items that you want your friends to buy to raise money for Texas caves. The TCMA auction needs you... well, needs your most excellent stuff. okaythanksbyeseeyousoon, ~Saj
[Texascavers] Donation Reminder TCMA auction This Weekend!
Howdy Cavers, This is one last call for donations for the TCMA auction this weekend at convention. As you start packing your truck, don't forget to throw in those awesome items that you want your friends to buy to raise money for Texas caves. The TCMA auction needs you... well, needs your most excellent stuff. okaythanksbyeseeyousoon, ~Saj
[Texascavers] Donation Reminder TCMA auction This Weekend!
Howdy Cavers, This is one last call for donations for the TCMA auction this weekend at convention. As you start packing your truck, don't forget to throw in those awesome items that you want your friends to buy to raise money for Texas caves. The TCMA auction needs you... well, needs your most excellent stuff. okaythanksbyeseeyousoon, ~Saj
[SWR] FW: Cave Tech. Position on the Lincoln National Forest
Hi All, See below for the re-advertizement of the cave tech position in the LNF. If you applied before, you have to reapply ASAP. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. CC: rhan...@fs.fed.us; cherieedwa...@fs.fed.us; cmsand...@fs.fed.us; blbol...@fs.fed.us Subject: Cave Tech. Position on the Lincoln National Forest From: blbol...@fs.fed.us Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:42:57 -0600 Hello, The Lincoln National Forest is currently advertising for a cave technician: GS - 0401 or 1301 5/7/9, application deadline is April 8, 2011. Using the announcement numbers below will get you to the position decription and application materials in USAJOBS. The announcements that you will see do not mention or address caves and that's a glitch in our system, this is a cave tech. position with all duties centered around protecting, monitoring, educating and improving the cave and karst resources on the Lincoln National Forest. This job was flown a couple months back but at that time it was only advertised in the 0401 series, if you had applied at that time you WILL NEED TO REAPPLY for this position. If you have any questions about the position or hiring process please contact: Cherie Edwards, District Ranger on the Carlsbad Ranger District @ 575-885-4181. 11-0308003-2557G-TT & 11-0308003-2557DP-TT for the 0401 Bio Sci positions and 11-03080003-2009G-TT & 11-0308003-2009DP-TT for the 1301 Phy Sci positions. Brad Bolton Recreation Program Manager Lincoln National Forest (575)434-7212 blbol...@fs.fed.us___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] FW: Cave Tech. Position on the Lincoln National Forest
Hi All, See below for the re-advertizement of the cave tech position in the LNF. If you applied before, you have to reapply ASAP. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. CC: rhan...@fs.fed.us; cherieedwa...@fs.fed.us; cmsand...@fs.fed.us; blbol...@fs.fed.us Subject: Cave Tech. Position on the Lincoln National Forest From: blbol...@fs.fed.us List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:42:57 -0600 Hello, The Lincoln National Forest is currently advertising for a cave technician: GS - 0401 or 1301 5/7/9, application deadline is April 8, 2011. Using the announcement numbers below will get you to the position decription and application materials in USAJOBS. The announcements that you will see do not mention or address caves and that's a glitch in our system, this is a cave tech. position with all duties centered around protecting, monitoring, educating and improving the cave and karst resources on the Lincoln National Forest. This job was flown a couple months back but at that time it was only advertised in the 0401 series, if you had applied at that time you WILL NEED TO REAPPLY for this position. If you have any questions about the position or hiring process please contact: Cherie Edwards, District Ranger on the Carlsbad Ranger District @ 575-885-4181. 11-0308003-2557G-TT & 11-0308003-2557DP-TT for the 0401 Bio Sci positions and 11-03080003-2009G-TT & 11-0308003-2009DP-TT for the 1301 Phy Sci positions. Brad Bolton Recreation Program Manager Lincoln National Forest (575)434-7212 blbol...@fs.fed.us___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] FW: Cave Tech. Position on the Lincoln National Forest
Hi All, See below for the re-advertizement of the cave tech position in the LNF. If you applied before, you have to reapply ASAP. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. CC: rhan...@fs.fed.us; cherieedwa...@fs.fed.us; cmsand...@fs.fed.us; blbol...@fs.fed.us Subject: Cave Tech. Position on the Lincoln National Forest From: blbol...@fs.fed.us List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:42:57 -0600 Hello, The Lincoln National Forest is currently advertising for a cave technician: GS - 0401 or 1301 5/7/9, application deadline is April 8, 2011. Using the announcement numbers below will get you to the position decription and application materials in USAJOBS. The announcements that you will see do not mention or address caves and that's a glitch in our system, this is a cave tech. position with all duties centered around protecting, monitoring, educating and improving the cave and karst resources on the Lincoln National Forest. This job was flown a couple months back but at that time it was only advertised in the 0401 series, if you had applied at that time you WILL NEED TO REAPPLY for this position. If you have any questions about the position or hiring process please contact: Cherie Edwards, District Ranger on the Carlsbad Ranger District @ 575-885-4181. 11-0308003-2557G-TT & 11-0308003-2557DP-TT for the 0401 Bio Sci positions and 11-03080003-2009G-TT & 11-0308003-2009DP-TT for the 1301 Phy Sci positions. Brad Bolton Recreation Program Manager Lincoln National Forest (575)434-7212 blbol...@fs.fed.us___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[Texascavers] Re: Calling breakfast cook volunteers
Thanks everyone, I think we have enough volunteers. We'll see you this weekend! ~Saj On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Saj Zappitello wrote: > The TCMA is once again planning to do a donation based breakfast as a > fundraiser at the TSA spring convention this weekend. We are looking for few > intrepid volunteers to help cook/serve/clean on Sunday morning. Please reply > to sajar...@gmail.com to let me know if you can help out! > > Thanks, > ~Saj >
[Texascavers] Re: Calling breakfast cook volunteers
Thanks everyone, I think we have enough volunteers. We'll see you this weekend! ~Saj On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Saj Zappitello wrote: > The TCMA is once again planning to do a donation based breakfast as a > fundraiser at the TSA spring convention this weekend. We are looking for few > intrepid volunteers to help cook/serve/clean on Sunday morning. Please reply > to sajar...@gmail.com to let me know if you can help out! > > Thanks, > ~Saj >
[Texascavers] Re: Calling breakfast cook volunteers
Thanks everyone, I think we have enough volunteers. We'll see you this weekend! ~Saj On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Saj Zappitello wrote: > The TCMA is once again planning to do a donation based breakfast as a > fundraiser at the TSA spring convention this weekend. We are looking for few > intrepid volunteers to help cook/serve/clean on Sunday morning. Please reply > to sajar...@gmail.com to let me know if you can help out! > > Thanks, > ~Saj >
[Texascavers] Re: cave-diving video
Here is the same video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hY6hfCGnI - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: cave-diving video
Here is the same video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hY6hfCGnI - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: cave-diving video
Here is the same video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hY6hfCGnI - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] TCMA fund-raising auction this Saturday!
Cavers! Don't forget to attend the TSA Spring Convention in Brackettville this weekend. Ellie has done a fantastic job of lining up the venue, Mallory and Roger have a great slate of speakers to give us some wonderful talks, and the usual hustle and bustle of vendors, salons (don't forget your submissions!) and meetings will round out the weekend. But perhaps the most entertaining time of all will be the annual TCMA fundraising auction on Saturday evening, hosted by Yours Truly. As is coming to be expected, I will be ably assisted by a couple of sexy caver women, and we will all be in costume again. What costumes, you say? Well --- that will be a surprise! But I would like to make three requests of everyone. First, please donate outdoor gear, caving equipment, services such as dinners, trips, or massages, and other similar items to the auction. Second, please attend the Convention and Auction and bid on stuff! All proceeds are going towards another cave acquisition for YOU! Finally, wear a cowboy hat to the Auction! It's going to be a great time! Jim "Crash" Kennedy TCMA Auctioneer
[Texascavers] TCMA fund-raising auction this Saturday!
Cavers! Don't forget to attend the TSA Spring Convention in Brackettville this weekend. Ellie has done a fantastic job of lining up the venue, Mallory and Roger have a great slate of speakers to give us some wonderful talks, and the usual hustle and bustle of vendors, salons (don't forget your submissions!) and meetings will round out the weekend. But perhaps the most entertaining time of all will be the annual TCMA fundraising auction on Saturday evening, hosted by Yours Truly. As is coming to be expected, I will be ably assisted by a couple of sexy caver women, and we will all be in costume again. What costumes, you say? Well --- that will be a surprise! But I would like to make three requests of everyone. First, please donate outdoor gear, caving equipment, services such as dinners, trips, or massages, and other similar items to the auction. Second, please attend the Convention and Auction and bid on stuff! All proceeds are going towards another cave acquisition for YOU! Finally, wear a cowboy hat to the Auction! It's going to be a great time! Jim "Crash" Kennedy TCMA Auctioneer
[Texascavers] TCMA fund-raising auction this Saturday!
Cavers! Don't forget to attend the TSA Spring Convention in Brackettville this weekend. Ellie has done a fantastic job of lining up the venue, Mallory and Roger have a great slate of speakers to give us some wonderful talks, and the usual hustle and bustle of vendors, salons (don't forget your submissions!) and meetings will round out the weekend. But perhaps the most entertaining time of all will be the annual TCMA fundraising auction on Saturday evening, hosted by Yours Truly. As is coming to be expected, I will be ably assisted by a couple of sexy caver women, and we will all be in costume again. What costumes, you say? Well --- that will be a surprise! But I would like to make three requests of everyone. First, please donate outdoor gear, caving equipment, services such as dinners, trips, or massages, and other similar items to the auction. Second, please attend the Convention and Auction and bid on stuff! All proceeds are going towards another cave acquisition for YOU! Finally, wear a cowboy hat to the Auction! It's going to be a great time! Jim "Crash" Kennedy TCMA Auctioneer
[Texascavers] Calling breakfast cook volunteers
The TCMA is once again planning to do a donation based breakfast as a fundraiser at the TSA spring convention this weekend. We are looking for few intrepid volunteers to help cook/serve/clean on Sunday morning. Please reply to sajar...@gmail.com to let me know if you can help out! Thanks, ~Saj
[Texascavers] Calling breakfast cook volunteers
The TCMA is once again planning to do a donation based breakfast as a fundraiser at the TSA spring convention this weekend. We are looking for few intrepid volunteers to help cook/serve/clean on Sunday morning. Please reply to sajar...@gmail.com to let me know if you can help out! Thanks, ~Saj
[Texascavers] Calling breakfast cook volunteers
The TCMA is once again planning to do a donation based breakfast as a fundraiser at the TSA spring convention this weekend. We are looking for few intrepid volunteers to help cook/serve/clean on Sunday morning. Please reply to sajar...@gmail.com to let me know if you can help out! Thanks, ~Saj
RE: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA
I'll go ahead and add this item to the agenda for the business meeting Saturday afternoon. Correction, though: The total cost for printing and mailing will be in the neighborhood of $8 to $9 per copy. I think it best we have this discussion in a public forum and not begin an online flame war., which benefits no one. Thanks! Mark and the TSA Board From: Carl Kunath [mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:02 AM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: "Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition." *Note: The word "completed" was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: "Solicit "pre-orders" on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them." When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: "But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I'll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it." That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a "feel good" emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase branded merchandise-you pay the same as any non-member. You do not get a complimentary issue of the most current newsletter. You do not get a current membership list. You do not even get a membership card. Yes, some of these things are available on the TSA web site and you can download and print at your time and expense. But, basically, anything you do after handing over your dues money costs extra-except you get the Texas Caver. Supposedly. What happens if the Caver is not produced? What happens to the funds that are collected but not expended? Do the TSA members get a refund? Hardly. Not even an apology. The funds remain in the general treasury until such time as they are disbursed for the benefit of the general membership. Hopefully. If it is a money issue, how has TSA been spending its funds? Is the TSA disbursing significant amounts of money in ways that are most beneficial to its membership? How has TSA's money been spent over the past 10 years? Here is a brief summary of the major expenses as noted in the published minutes: 2004$500 to produce Devil's Sinkhole posters. (How many have been sold?) 2007$1,000 to Honey Creek for entrance maintenance
RE: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA
I'll go ahead and add this item to the agenda for the business meeting Saturday afternoon. Correction, though: The total cost for printing and mailing will be in the neighborhood of $8 to $9 per copy. I think it best we have this discussion in a public forum and not begin an online flame war., which benefits no one. Thanks! Mark and the TSA Board From: Carl Kunath [mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:02 AM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: "Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition." *Note: The word "completed" was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: "Solicit "pre-orders" on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them." When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: "But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I'll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it." That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a "feel good" emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase branded merchandise-you pay the same as any non-member. You do not get a complimentary issue of the most current newsletter. You do not get a current membership list. You do not even get a membership card. Yes, some of these things are available on the TSA web site and you can download and print at your time and expense. But, basically, anything you do after handing over your dues money costs extra-except you get the Texas Caver. Supposedly. What happens if the Caver is not produced? What happens to the funds that are collected but not expended? Do the TSA members get a refund? Hardly. Not even an apology. The funds remain in the general treasury until such time as they are disbursed for the benefit of the general membership. Hopefully. If it is a money issue, how has TSA been spending its funds? Is the TSA disbursing significant amounts of money in ways that are most beneficial to its membership? How has TSA's money been spent over the past 10 years? Here is a brief summary of the major expenses as noted in the published minutes: 2004$500 to produce Devil's Sinkhole posters. (How many have been sold?) 2007$1,000 to Honey Creek for entrance maintenance
RE: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA
I'll go ahead and add this item to the agenda for the business meeting Saturday afternoon. Correction, though: The total cost for printing and mailing will be in the neighborhood of $8 to $9 per copy. I think it best we have this discussion in a public forum and not begin an online flame war., which benefits no one. Thanks! Mark and the TSA Board From: Carl Kunath [mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:02 AM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: "Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition." *Note: The word "completed" was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: "Solicit "pre-orders" on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them." When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: "But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I'll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it." That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a "feel good" emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase branded merchandise-you pay the same as any non-member. You do not get a complimentary issue of the most current newsletter. You do not get a current membership list. You do not even get a membership card. Yes, some of these things are available on the TSA web site and you can download and print at your time and expense. But, basically, anything you do after handing over your dues money costs extra-except you get the Texas Caver. Supposedly. What happens if the Caver is not produced? What happens to the funds that are collected but not expended? Do the TSA members get a refund? Hardly. Not even an apology. The funds remain in the general treasury until such time as they are disbursed for the benefit of the general membership. Hopefully. If it is a money issue, how has TSA been spending its funds? Is the TSA disbursing significant amounts of money in ways that are most beneficial to its membership? How has TSA's money been spent over the past 10 years? Here is a brief summary of the major expenses as noted in the published minutes: 2004$500 to produce Devil's Sinkhole posters. (How many have been sold?) 2007$1,000 to Honey Creek for entrance maintenance
texascavers Digest 28 Mar 2011 09:44:34 -0000 Issue 1275
texascavers Digest 28 Mar 2011 09:44:34 - Issue 1275 Topics (messages 17455 through 17462): Ventana Jabali 17455 by: Mixon Bill 17457 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net Bexar Grotto meeting...Monday 3/28 17456 by: Tom Florer Reminder: TSA Photo Salon 17458 by: Don Arburn Open Letter to the Members of the TSA 17459 by: Carl Kunath 17462 by: mark gee another cave-diving video 17460 by: David Grutas de Carrizal 17461 by: David Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: -- --- Begin Message --- That feature David pointed us to on Google Earth appears to be an arroyo in the steep east face of the Sierra de El Abra. Ventana Jabali is 6 or 7 km north of there, and, while the entrance is large, I wouldn't expect it to show up on a vertical view. The known caves nearest that quarry are those in the Monos area. -- Mixon Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Thanks, Bill. I had already stared a similar message. As I recall, the cliff entrance is actually overhung, so I doubt if you could see it unless the twists and turns in Google Earth would do it. By the way (and definately off topic for those of you keeping score) the last itme I stayed at Hotel Taninul after rapelling into the skylight entrance to Ventana Jabali was the time the ex-special forces Viet Nam chopper pilot and his renta-wife companion were there, on his way to fly the jail break in Mexico City. I think I met them, because I though to myself "couldn't the guy have found a prettier woman?" How about that for Cave Trivia!! Ediger missed another opportunity. Your choice - the cave, the chopper, or the woman. DirtDoc - Original Message - From: "Mixon Bill" To: "Cavers Texas" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:52:52 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Ventana Jabali That feature David pointed us to on Google Earth appears to be an arroyo in the steep east face of the Sierra de El Abra. Ventana Jabali is 6 or 7 km north of there, and, while the entrance is large, I wouldn't expect it to show up on a vertical view. The known caves nearest that quarry are those in the Monos area. -- Mixon --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- For those of you who missed the 100th Trip Anniversary Celebration for the Government Canyon State Natural Area Karst Survey, you missed out on a great shindig. All is not lost, however. For the benefit of those who weren't there, Marvin Miller will be presenting the slideshow at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday, 3/28. He has put together a great introduction to the karst of the area, as well as a thorough listing of all the caves that have been found over the years. The Bexar Grotto meets on the 2nd and 4th Monday of each month at Chester's Hamburgers, at the NW corner of U.S. Highway 281 and Thousand Oaks Drive in San Antonio. Hope to see you there! -Tom --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Spring Convention, at Fort Clark, is one week away! Submissions for the Photo Salon are still being accepted! Get yours in TODAY! Don's iPhone. --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: "Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition." *Note: The word "completed" was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: "Solicit "pre-orders
texascavers Digest 28 Mar 2011 09:44:34 -0000 Issue 1275
texascavers Digest 28 Mar 2011 09:44:34 - Issue 1275 Topics (messages 17455 through 17462): Ventana Jabali 17455 by: Mixon Bill 17457 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net Bexar Grotto meeting...Monday 3/28 17456 by: Tom Florer Reminder: TSA Photo Salon 17458 by: Don Arburn Open Letter to the Members of the TSA 17459 by: Carl Kunath 17462 by: mark gee another cave-diving video 17460 by: David Grutas de Carrizal 17461 by: David Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: -- --- Begin Message --- That feature David pointed us to on Google Earth appears to be an arroyo in the steep east face of the Sierra de El Abra. Ventana Jabali is 6 or 7 km north of there, and, while the entrance is large, I wouldn't expect it to show up on a vertical view. The known caves nearest that quarry are those in the Monos area. -- Mixon Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Thanks, Bill. I had already stared a similar message. As I recall, the cliff entrance is actually overhung, so I doubt if you could see it unless the twists and turns in Google Earth would do it. By the way (and definately off topic for those of you keeping score) the last itme I stayed at Hotel Taninul after rapelling into the skylight entrance to Ventana Jabali was the time the ex-special forces Viet Nam chopper pilot and his renta-wife companion were there, on his way to fly the jail break in Mexico City. I think I met them, because I though to myself "couldn't the guy have found a prettier woman?" How about that for Cave Trivia!! Ediger missed another opportunity. Your choice - the cave, the chopper, or the woman. DirtDoc - Original Message - From: "Mixon Bill" To: "Cavers Texas" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:52:52 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Ventana Jabali That feature David pointed us to on Google Earth appears to be an arroyo in the steep east face of the Sierra de El Abra. Ventana Jabali is 6 or 7 km north of there, and, while the entrance is large, I wouldn't expect it to show up on a vertical view. The known caves nearest that quarry are those in the Monos area. -- Mixon --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- For those of you who missed the 100th Trip Anniversary Celebration for the Government Canyon State Natural Area Karst Survey, you missed out on a great shindig. All is not lost, however. For the benefit of those who weren't there, Marvin Miller will be presenting the slideshow at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday, 3/28. He has put together a great introduction to the karst of the area, as well as a thorough listing of all the caves that have been found over the years. The Bexar Grotto meets on the 2nd and 4th Monday of each month at Chester's Hamburgers, at the NW corner of U.S. Highway 281 and Thousand Oaks Drive in San Antonio. Hope to see you there! -Tom --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Spring Convention, at Fort Clark, is one week away! Submissions for the Photo Salon are still being accepted! Get yours in TODAY! Don's iPhone. --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: "Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition." *Note: The word "completed" was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: "Solicit "pre-orders
texascavers Digest 28 Mar 2011 09:44:34 -0000 Issue 1275
texascavers Digest 28 Mar 2011 09:44:34 - Issue 1275 Topics (messages 17455 through 17462): Ventana Jabali 17455 by: Mixon Bill 17457 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net Bexar Grotto meeting...Monday 3/28 17456 by: Tom Florer Reminder: TSA Photo Salon 17458 by: Don Arburn Open Letter to the Members of the TSA 17459 by: Carl Kunath 17462 by: mark gee another cave-diving video 17460 by: David Grutas de Carrizal 17461 by: David Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: -- --- Begin Message --- That feature David pointed us to on Google Earth appears to be an arroyo in the steep east face of the Sierra de El Abra. Ventana Jabali is 6 or 7 km north of there, and, while the entrance is large, I wouldn't expect it to show up on a vertical view. The known caves nearest that quarry are those in the Monos area. -- Mixon Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Thanks, Bill. I had already stared a similar message. As I recall, the cliff entrance is actually overhung, so I doubt if you could see it unless the twists and turns in Google Earth would do it. By the way (and definately off topic for those of you keeping score) the last itme I stayed at Hotel Taninul after rapelling into the skylight entrance to Ventana Jabali was the time the ex-special forces Viet Nam chopper pilot and his renta-wife companion were there, on his way to fly the jail break in Mexico City. I think I met them, because I though to myself "couldn't the guy have found a prettier woman?" How about that for Cave Trivia!! Ediger missed another opportunity. Your choice - the cave, the chopper, or the woman. DirtDoc - Original Message - From: "Mixon Bill" To: "Cavers Texas" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:52:52 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Ventana Jabali That feature David pointed us to on Google Earth appears to be an arroyo in the steep east face of the Sierra de El Abra. Ventana Jabali is 6 or 7 km north of there, and, while the entrance is large, I wouldn't expect it to show up on a vertical view. The known caves nearest that quarry are those in the Monos area. -- Mixon --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- For those of you who missed the 100th Trip Anniversary Celebration for the Government Canyon State Natural Area Karst Survey, you missed out on a great shindig. All is not lost, however. For the benefit of those who weren't there, Marvin Miller will be presenting the slideshow at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday, 3/28. He has put together a great introduction to the karst of the area, as well as a thorough listing of all the caves that have been found over the years. The Bexar Grotto meets on the 2nd and 4th Monday of each month at Chester's Hamburgers, at the NW corner of U.S. Highway 281 and Thousand Oaks Drive in San Antonio. Hope to see you there! -Tom --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Spring Convention, at Fort Clark, is one week away! Submissions for the Photo Salon are still being accepted! Get yours in TODAY! Don's iPhone. --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA's moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: "Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition." *Note: The word "completed" was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: "Solicit "pre-orders
Re: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA
I look foward to this issue. Great work and keep it coming. Happy Caving! Mark G --- On Mon, 3/28/11, Carl Kunath wrote: From: Carl Kunath Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA To: "TexasCavers" Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 1:01 AM Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA’s moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: “Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition.” *Note: The word “completed” was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: “Solicit “pre-orders” on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them.” When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: “But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I’ll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it.” That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a “feel good” emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase branded merchandise—you pay the same as any non-member. You do not get a complimentary issue of the most current newsletter. You do not get a current membership list. You do not even get a membership card. Yes, some of these things are available on the TSA web site and you can download and print at your time and expense. But, basically, anything you do after handing over your dues money costs extra—except you get the Texas Caver. Supposedly. What happens if the Caver is not produced? What happens to the funds that are collected but not expended? Do the TSA members get a refund? Hardly. Not even an apology. The funds remain in the general treasury until such time as they are disbursed for the benefit of the general membership. Hopefully. If it is a money issue, how has TSA been spending its funds? Is the TSA disbursing significant amounts of money in ways that are most beneficial to its membership? How has TSA’s money been spent over the past 10 years? Here is a brief summary of the major expenses as noted in the published minutes: 2004 $500 to produce Devil’s Sinkhole posters. (How many have been sold?) 2007 $1,000 to Honey Creek for entrance maintenance and improvements. 2007 The TSA convention lost $800 (Those in attendance were asked for contributions to cover the shortfall.) 2008 Caver $2,128.29 over budget. Cost for the year was $5,201.05 (did include an extra issue). 2009 $7,855.38 donated t
Re: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA
I look foward to this issue. Great work and keep it coming. Happy Caving! Mark G --- On Mon, 3/28/11, Carl Kunath wrote: From: Carl Kunath Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA To: "TexasCavers" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 1:01 AM Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA’s moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: “Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition.” *Note: The word “completed” was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: “Solicit “pre-orders” on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them.” When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: “But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I’ll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it.” That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a “feel good” emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase branded merchandise—you pay the same as any non-member. You do not get a complimentary issue of the most current newsletter. You do not get a current membership list. You do not even get a membership card. Yes, some of these things are available on the TSA web site and you can download and print at your time and expense. But, basically, anything you do after handing over your dues money costs extra—except you get the Texas Caver. Supposedly. What happens if the Caver is not produced? What happens to the funds that are collected but not expended? Do the TSA members get a refund? Hardly. Not even an apology. The funds remain in the general treasury until such time as they are disbursed for the benefit of the general membership. Hopefully. If it is a money issue, how has TSA been spending its funds? Is the TSA disbursing significant amounts of money in ways that are most beneficial to its membership? How has TSA’s money been spent over the past 10 years? Here is a brief summary of the major expenses as noted in the published minutes: 2004 $500 to produce Devil’s Sinkhole posters. (How many have been sold?) 2007 $1,000 to Honey Creek for entrance maintenance and improvements. 2007 The TSA convention lost $800 (Those in attendance were asked for contributions to cover the shortfall.) 2008 Caver $2,128.29 over budget. Cost for the year was $5,201.05 (did include an ex
Re: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA
I look foward to this issue. Great work and keep it coming. Happy Caving! Mark G --- On Mon, 3/28/11, Carl Kunath wrote: From: Carl Kunath Subject: [Texascavers] Open Letter to the Members of the TSA To: "TexasCavers" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 1:01 AM Open Letter to the Members of the TSA There is an issue of the Texas Caver now ready to print. It is a very special issue to commemorate 50 years of publishing the Texas Caver and is also a brief retrospective of the last 50+ years of Texas caving. Appropriately, it is 50 pages; much of it in color. Several dozen people have contributed to it in various ways. Distribution of this issue will fulfill the TSA’s moral debt to deliver the final issue owed but never delivered to the 2005 TSA membership. At a past TSA members meeting, the TSA voiced support for the publication of this issue. Here is a quote from the minutes of the October 21, 2007 members meeting: “Jerry Atkinson/Carl Kunath have completed* the 50th anniversary issue of The TEXAS CAVER. Mark Alman to handle printing and mailing of this special issue. Allan Cobb stated that TCR would donate $300 towards this special edition.” *Note: The word “completed” was incorrect. We were then working to complete the issue. Now, after some delays, it is ready. When told that it was ready for printing and after having pointed out the practical and ethical considerations involved with producing this issue, the present leadership of the TSA has refused to print it. Here is a quote from the Chairman: “Solicit “pre-orders” on CaveTex, in the TEXAS CAVER and at the Convention in April for a price to be determined. Probably around $10, including postage. If enough interest we would then order and mail them.” When that plan was called into question, and the Chairman was again reminded that this was something that was owed to the 2005 TSA members and had been previously approved, there was a further response: “But, if you insist on presenting why the TSA need [sic] to spend over (now) $1500 (or 25% of our operating budget) for a six year old newsletter that most people either know nothing or care nothing about, I’ll be sure to put it at the top of the agenda. If you consider this a good use of TSA assets, go for it.” That is a bizarre and high-handed attitude, especially considering the previous discussions. So, yes, Mr. Chairman, we are going for it. Were you a member of the TSA in 2005? If so, you paid your membership dues with the expectation that some member benefits would accrue. What sort of member benefits are we thinking of? Sadly, aside from bankrolling an annual convention, about the only thing that TSA does for its dues-paying membership is to provide the Texas Caver. At least it says that it will. In 2005 (and a few other years) the TSA could not manage even that. Aside from a “feel good” emotion when you sign up, a few lightly administered projects, and the promise of a regular newsletter, there are no other benefits to TSA membership. There is no welcoming packet. You do not get a mission statement for the organization or any sort of historic perspective as to why it exists. You do not get a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. You do not get a reduced rate to attend a TSA function or to purchase branded merchandise—you pay the same as any non-member. You do not get a complimentary issue of the most current newsletter. You do not get a current membership list. You do not even get a membership card. Yes, some of these things are available on the TSA web site and you can download and print at your time and expense. But, basically, anything you do after handing over your dues money costs extra—except you get the Texas Caver. Supposedly. What happens if the Caver is not produced? What happens to the funds that are collected but not expended? Do the TSA members get a refund? Hardly. Not even an apology. The funds remain in the general treasury until such time as they are disbursed for the benefit of the general membership. Hopefully. If it is a money issue, how has TSA been spending its funds? Is the TSA disbursing significant amounts of money in ways that are most beneficial to its membership? How has TSA’s money been spent over the past 10 years? Here is a brief summary of the major expenses as noted in the published minutes: 2004 $500 to produce Devil’s Sinkhole posters. (How many have been sold?) 2007 $1,000 to Honey Creek for entrance maintenance and improvements. 2007 The TSA convention lost $800 (Those in attendance were asked for contributions to cover the shortfall.) 2008 Caver $2,128.29 over budget. Cost for the year was $5,201.05 (did include an ex
