texascavers Digest 9 Feb 2013 00:15:22 -0000 Issue 1704

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 9 Feb 2013 00:15:22 - Issue 1704

Topics (messages 21289 through 21293):

Re: RFID chips
21289 by: Louise Power
21290 by: Stefan Creaser
21291 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
21292 by: Louise Power
21293 by: Stefan Creaser

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--
--- Begin Message ---
Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> Here you are, Bill:
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
> 
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
> 
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
> 
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
> 
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
  --- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the near

texascavers Digest 9 Feb 2013 00:15:22 -0000 Issue 1704

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 9 Feb 2013 00:15:22 - Issue 1704

Topics (messages 21289 through 21293):

Re: RFID chips
21289 by: Louise Power
21290 by: Stefan Creaser
21291 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
21292 by: Louise Power
21293 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> Here you are, Bill:
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
> 
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
> 
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
> 
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
> 
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
  --- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the near

texascavers Digest 9 Feb 2013 00:15:22 -0000 Issue 1704

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 9 Feb 2013 00:15:22 - Issue 1704

Topics (messages 21289 through 21293):

Re: RFID chips
21289 by: Louise Power
21290 by: Stefan Creaser
21291 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
21292 by: Louise Power
21293 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> Here you are, Bill:
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
> 
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
> 
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
> 
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
> 
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
  --- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the near

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

Since it's Friday afternoon...

Bill *was* being helpful and saying "don't panic", and had justification for it.

FWIW, I actually know people who had their card cloned by an errant waiter, but 
I have never heard of anyone being got in the same way as the video.

Cheers,
Stefan

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 6:00 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

I know all this, but there are just times when I get tired of people being so 
uncivil. What does it cost to say "Thanks for the info" or just ignoring it 
altogether instead of responding with six or eight paragraphs of such "let me 
tell you how much more I know than you" rhetoric (you idiot--implied if not 
said right out).

From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; 
bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:50:57 -0800
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the nearest cop.

:-)

Cheers,
Stefan


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.
> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> Here you are, Bill:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
>
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
>
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
>
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
>
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

Since it's Friday afternoon...

Bill *was* being helpful and saying "don't panic", and had justification for it.

FWIW, I actually know people who had their card cloned by an errant waiter, but 
I have never heard of anyone being got in the same way as the video.

Cheers,
Stefan

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 6:00 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

I know all this, but there are just times when I get tired of people being so 
uncivil. What does it cost to say "Thanks for the info" or just ignoring it 
altogether instead of responding with six or eight paragraphs of such "let me 
tell you how much more I know than you" rhetoric (you idiot--implied if not 
said right out).

From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; 
bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:50:57 -0800
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the nearest cop.

:-)

Cheers,
Stefan


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.
> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> Here you are, Bill:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
>
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
>
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
>
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
>
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

Since it's Friday afternoon...

Bill *was* being helpful and saying "don't panic", and had justification for it.

FWIW, I actually know people who had their card cloned by an errant waiter, but 
I have never heard of anyone being got in the same way as the video.

Cheers,
Stefan

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 6:00 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

I know all this, but there are just times when I get tired of people being so 
uncivil. What does it cost to say "Thanks for the info" or just ignoring it 
altogether instead of responding with six or eight paragraphs of such "let me 
tell you how much more I know than you" rhetoric (you idiot--implied if not 
said right out).

From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; 
bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:50:57 -0800
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the nearest cop.

:-)

Cheers,
Stefan


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.
> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> Here you are, Bill:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
>
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
>
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
>
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
>
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Louise Power]

I know all this, but there are just times when I get tired of people being so 
uncivil. What does it cost to say "Thanks for the info" or just ignoring it 
altogether instead of responding with six or eight paragraphs of such "let me 
tell you how much more I know than you" rhetoric (you idiot--implied if not 
said right out).

From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:50:57 -0800
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips









But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that “they” use to control the masses!
 
Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don’t care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.
 
Almost everything technology related bears some risk – some systems are so 
complicated that one can’t test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally
 fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is the way 
forward… if someone comes up to you in an airport and places something that 
could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be then I suggest 
you apprehend them and
 take them to the nearest cop.
 
:-)
 
Cheers,
Stefan
 
 


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]


Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM

To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers

Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips


 

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's
 not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: 
stefan.crea...@arm.com

> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com

> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800

> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

> 

> Here you are, Bill:

> 

> 
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/

> 

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]

> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM

> To: Cavers Texas

> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips

> 

> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're
 prefectly willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it 
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters have been 
found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read the magnetic 
stripe, of their own. Some
 people have hacked merchants'

> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle
 if you're like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare 
large purchases like a set of tires.

> 

> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.

> 

> The good news it that the technology is very short range.

> 

> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere

> 

> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.

> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful.
 -- Mixon

> 

> True friends stab you in the front.

> 

> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:

> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu

> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or 
sa...@amcs-pubs.org

> 

> 

> -

> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

> For additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

> 

> 

> 

> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any
 purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

> 

> 

> 

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Louise Power]

I know all this, but there are just times when I get tired of people being so 
uncivil. What does it cost to say "Thanks for the info" or just ignoring it 
altogether instead of responding with six or eight paragraphs of such "let me 
tell you how much more I know than you" rhetoric (you idiot--implied if not 
said right out).

From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:50:57 -0800
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips









But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that “they” use to control the masses!
 
Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don’t care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.
 
Almost everything technology related bears some risk – some systems are so 
complicated that one can’t test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally
 fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is the way 
forward… if someone comes up to you in an airport and places something that 
could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be then I suggest 
you apprehend them and
 take them to the nearest cop.
 
:-)
 
Cheers,
Stefan
 
 


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]


Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM

To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers

Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips


 

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's
 not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: 
stefan.crea...@arm.com

> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com

> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800

> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

> 

> Here you are, Bill:

> 

> 
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/

> 

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]

> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM

> To: Cavers Texas

> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips

> 

> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're
 prefectly willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it 
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters have been 
found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read the magnetic 
stripe, of their own. Some
 people have hacked merchants'

> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle
 if you're like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare 
large purchases like a set of tires.

> 

> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.

> 

> The good news it that the technology is very short range.

> 

> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere

> 

> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.

> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful.
 -- Mixon

> 

> True friends stab you in the front.

> 

> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:

> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu

> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or 
sa...@amcs-pubs.org

> 

> 

> -

> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

> For additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

> 

> 

> 

> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any
 purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

> 

> 

> -

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Louise Power]

I know all this, but there are just times when I get tired of people being so 
uncivil. What does it cost to say "Thanks for the info" or just ignoring it 
altogether instead of responding with six or eight paragraphs of such "let me 
tell you how much more I know than you" rhetoric (you idiot--implied if not 
said right out).

From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:50:57 -0800
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips









But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that “they” use to control the masses!
 
Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don’t care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.
 
Almost everything technology related bears some risk – some systems are so 
complicated that one can’t test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally
 fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is the way 
forward… if someone comes up to you in an airport and places something that 
could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be then I suggest 
you apprehend them and
 take them to the nearest cop.
 
:-)
 
Cheers,
Stefan
 
 


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]


Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM

To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers

Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips


 

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's
 not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: 
stefan.crea...@arm.com

> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com

> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800

> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

> 

> Here you are, Bill:

> 

> 
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/

> 

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]

> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM

> To: Cavers Texas

> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips

> 

> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're
 prefectly willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it 
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters have been 
found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read the magnetic 
stripe, of their own. Some
 people have hacked merchants'

> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle
 if you're like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare 
large purchases like a set of tires.

> 

> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.

> 

> The good news it that the technology is very short range.

> 

> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere

> 

> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.

> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful.
 -- Mixon

> 

> True friends stab you in the front.

> 

> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:

> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu

> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or 
sa...@amcs-pubs.org

> 

> 

> -

> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

> For additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

> 

> 

> 

> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any
 purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

> 

> 

> 

Re: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[dirtdoc]

I personally opt for the f ull-head and ear All -you-Min -E-mun foil wrap .  It 
attracts good  women, too. 



Another example explaining  why a number of Good  F olks have abandonded this 
forum.  And a few other of us consider doing so  on a regular basis. 



The Doctor Of Dirt 



Whoo-hee-WhOOO-HE-whoop!!! 



whoopeee

Re: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[dirtdoc]

I personally opt for the f ull-head and ear All -you-Min -E-mun foil wrap .  It 
attracts good  women, too. 



Another example explaining  why a number of Good  F olks have abandonded this 
forum.  And a few other of us consider doing so  on a regular basis. 



The Doctor Of Dirt 



Whoo-hee-WhOOO-HE-whoop!!! 



whoopeee

Re: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[dirtdoc]

I personally opt for the f ull-head and ear All -you-Min -E-mun foil wrap .  It 
attracts good  women, too. 



Another example explaining  why a number of Good  F olks have abandonded this 
forum.  And a few other of us consider doing so  on a regular basis. 



The Doctor Of Dirt 



Whoo-hee-WhOOO-HE-whoop!!! 



whoopeee

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the nearest cop.

:-)

Cheers,
Stefan


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.
> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> Here you are, Bill:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
>
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
>
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
>
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
>
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or 
> sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium. Thank you.
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the nearest cop.

:-)

Cheers,
Stefan


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.
> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> Here you are, Bill:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
>
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
>
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
>
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
>
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or 
> sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium. Thank you.
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

But Bill is just doing his bit to disperse the FUD (fear, uncertainty and 
doubt) that "they" use to control the masses!

Now if you *want* to be controlled, or know that Bill writes these posts and 
you don't care, then go ahead and ignore the posts.

Almost everything technology related bears some risk - some systems are so 
complicated that one can't test all possible scenarios, or if one made it 
totally fool proof then almost no one could use it (grin). Calculated risk is 
the way forward... if someone comes up to you in an airport and places 
something that could be a card reader close to where your wallet/purse could be 
then I suggest you apprehend them and take them to the nearest cop.

:-)

Cheers,
Stefan


From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Stefan Creaser; Bill Mixon; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.
> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> Here you are, Bill:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
>
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
>
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
>
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
>
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
>
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or 
> sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium. Thank you.
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Louise Power]

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> Here you are, Bill:
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
> 
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
> 
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
> 
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
> 
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
  

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Louise Power]

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> Here you are, Bill:
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
> 
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
> 
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
> 
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
> 
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
  

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Louise Power]

Well, Bill, not everybody is as smart as you are and sometimes when somebody 
tries to do you a favor, the courteous thing to do is just to say thank you. 
It's not necessary to be snarky just because you know everything.

> From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:03:11 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> Here you are, Bill:
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips
> 
> No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
> reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry 
> about things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or 
> electronic cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card 
> to a waiter who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while 
> he's got it? Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the 
> simple kind that read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have 
> hacked merchants'
> computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
> readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
> really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
> aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except 
> for mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.
> 
> Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you 
> can get fraudulent charges removed easily.
> 
> The good news it that the technology is very short range.
> 
> I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
> his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
> everywhere
> 
> What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
> seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers 
> licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
> If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
> very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
> automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to 
> know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon
> 
> True friends stab you in the front.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
> save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
  

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2013 20:03:16 -0000 Issue 1703

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2013 20:03:16 - Issue 1703

Topics (messages 21283 through 21288):

Article: Promotion of Bat Conservation in Mexico
21283 by: Cruz St.Peter
21284 by: Sheryl Rieck

RFID Credit Cards
21285 by: Mark Minton

Gonzo Guano Gear
21286 by: Jim Kennedy

RFID chips
21287 by: Mixon Bill
21288 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
All,

TAMU researchers, and the Aggie Speleological Society's own Rachel
Saker, will be participating in a research project to help promote bat
conservation in Mexico.  This looks like a pretty cool project
combining both natural and social sciences.

The article can be found here:
http://www.thebatt.com/students-research-team-to-further-conservation-awareness-of-bats-in-mexico-1.2983763

-- 
Cruz St.Peter
Laboratory Technician
Department of Oceanography / IODP
Texas A&M University
stpe...@geos.tamu.edu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's my girl!!

Sheryl

Sent from my iPhone-Resistance was futile. 

On Feb 6, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Cruz St.Peter"  wrote:

> All,
> 
> TAMU researchers, and the Aggie Speleological Society's own Rachel
> Saker, will be participating in a research project to help promote bat
> conservation in Mexico.  This looks like a pretty cool project
> combining both natural and social sciences.
> 
> The article can be found here:
> http://www.thebatt.com/students-research-team-to-further-conservation-awareness-of-bats-in-mexico-1.2983763
> 
> -- 
> Cruz St.Peter
> Laboratory Technician
> Department of Oceanography / IODP
> Texas A&M University
> stpe...@geos.tamu.edu
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I recently received word that GGG will be at Colorado Bend State Park this 
weekend selling gear at the NCRC seminar.  If you want anything, Becky will be 
at the Conference Center on Saturday only.

-- Jim

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs  
both the reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does  
everybody worry about things like sending their credit card numbers  
over the Internet or electronic cloning, when they're prefectly  
willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it  
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters  
have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read  
the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'  
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe  
credit-card readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card  
numbers. But if you're really worried about it, you could take the  
suggestion to wrap your card in aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're  
like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare  
large purchases like a set of tires.


Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't  
you?), you can get fraudulent charges removed easily.


The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It  
unlocks his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in  
them. They're everywhere


What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would  
a few seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas  
drivers licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.  
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the  
mood to be very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read  
the info automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I  
have no way to know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here you are, Bill:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/


-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2013 20:03:16 -0000 Issue 1703

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2013 20:03:16 - Issue 1703

Topics (messages 21283 through 21288):

Article: Promotion of Bat Conservation in Mexico
21283 by: Cruz St.Peter
21284 by: Sheryl Rieck

RFID Credit Cards
21285 by: Mark Minton

Gonzo Guano Gear
21286 by: Jim Kennedy

RFID chips
21287 by: Mixon Bill
21288 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
All,

TAMU researchers, and the Aggie Speleological Society's own Rachel
Saker, will be participating in a research project to help promote bat
conservation in Mexico.  This looks like a pretty cool project
combining both natural and social sciences.

The article can be found here:
http://www.thebatt.com/students-research-team-to-further-conservation-awareness-of-bats-in-mexico-1.2983763

-- 
Cruz St.Peter
Laboratory Technician
Department of Oceanography / IODP
Texas A&M University
stpe...@geos.tamu.edu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's my girl!!

Sheryl

Sent from my iPhone-Resistance was futile. 

On Feb 6, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Cruz St.Peter"  wrote:

> All,
> 
> TAMU researchers, and the Aggie Speleological Society's own Rachel
> Saker, will be participating in a research project to help promote bat
> conservation in Mexico.  This looks like a pretty cool project
> combining both natural and social sciences.
> 
> The article can be found here:
> http://www.thebatt.com/students-research-team-to-further-conservation-awareness-of-bats-in-mexico-1.2983763
> 
> -- 
> Cruz St.Peter
> Laboratory Technician
> Department of Oceanography / IODP
> Texas A&M University
> stpe...@geos.tamu.edu
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I recently received word that GGG will be at Colorado Bend State Park this 
weekend selling gear at the NCRC seminar.  If you want anything, Becky will be 
at the Conference Center on Saturday only.

-- Jim

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs  
both the reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does  
everybody worry about things like sending their credit card numbers  
over the Internet or electronic cloning, when they're prefectly  
willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it  
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters  
have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read  
the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'  
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe  
credit-card readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card  
numbers. But if you're really worried about it, you could take the  
suggestion to wrap your card in aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're  
like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare  
large purchases like a set of tires.


Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't  
you?), you can get fraudulent charges removed easily.


The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It  
unlocks his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in  
them. They're everywhere


What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would  
a few seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas  
drivers licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.  
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the  
mood to be very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read  
the info automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I  
have no way to know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here you are, Bill:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/


-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2013 20:03:16 -0000 Issue 1703

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 8 Feb 2013 20:03:16 - Issue 1703

Topics (messages 21283 through 21288):

Article: Promotion of Bat Conservation in Mexico
21283 by: Cruz St.Peter
21284 by: Sheryl Rieck

RFID Credit Cards
21285 by: Mark Minton

Gonzo Guano Gear
21286 by: Jim Kennedy

RFID chips
21287 by: Mixon Bill
21288 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
All,

TAMU researchers, and the Aggie Speleological Society's own Rachel
Saker, will be participating in a research project to help promote bat
conservation in Mexico.  This looks like a pretty cool project
combining both natural and social sciences.

The article can be found here:
http://www.thebatt.com/students-research-team-to-further-conservation-awareness-of-bats-in-mexico-1.2983763

-- 
Cruz St.Peter
Laboratory Technician
Department of Oceanography / IODP
Texas A&M University
stpe...@geos.tamu.edu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's my girl!!

Sheryl

Sent from my iPhone-Resistance was futile. 

On Feb 6, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Cruz St.Peter"  wrote:

> All,
> 
> TAMU researchers, and the Aggie Speleological Society's own Rachel
> Saker, will be participating in a research project to help promote bat
> conservation in Mexico.  This looks like a pretty cool project
> combining both natural and social sciences.
> 
> The article can be found here:
> http://www.thebatt.com/students-research-team-to-further-conservation-awareness-of-bats-in-mexico-1.2983763
> 
> -- 
> Cruz St.Peter
> Laboratory Technician
> Department of Oceanography / IODP
> Texas A&M University
> stpe...@geos.tamu.edu
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I recently received word that GGG will be at Colorado Bend State Park this 
weekend selling gear at the NCRC seminar.  If you want anything, Becky will be 
at the Conference Center on Saturday only.

-- Jim

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs  
both the reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does  
everybody worry about things like sending their credit card numbers  
over the Internet or electronic cloning, when they're prefectly  
willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it  
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters  
have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read  
the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'  
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe  
credit-card readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card  
numbers. But if you're really worried about it, you could take the  
suggestion to wrap your card in aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're  
like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare  
large purchases like a set of tires.


Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't  
you?), you can get fraudulent charges removed easily.


The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It  
unlocks his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in  
them. They're everywhere


What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would  
a few seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas  
drivers licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.  
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the  
mood to be very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read  
the info automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I  
have no way to know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here you are, Bill:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/


-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32

RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

Here you are, Bill:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/


-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips

No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry about 
things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or electronic 
cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card to a waiter 
who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? 
Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that 
read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except for 
mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.

Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you can 
get fraudulent charges removed easily.

The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
everywhere

What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers licenses 
will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to know 
whether that's been successful. -- Mixon

True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.


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RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

Here you are, Bill:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/


-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips

No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry about 
things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or electronic 
cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card to a waiter 
who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? 
Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that 
read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except for 
mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.

Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you can 
get fraudulent charges removed easily.

The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
everywhere

What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers licenses 
will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to know 
whether that's been successful. -- Mixon

True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.


-
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RE: [Texascavers] RFID chips

[Stefan Creaser]

Here you are, Bill:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/step4/How-to-kill-your-RFID-chip/


-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:32 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] RFID chips

No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs both the 
reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does everybody worry about 
things like sending their credit card numbers over the Internet or electronic 
cloning, when they're prefectly willing to give their credit card to a waiter 
who disappears with it temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? 
Some waiters have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that 
read the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe credit-card 
readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card numbers. But if you're 
really worried about it, you could take the suggestion to wrap your card in 
aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're like me and hardly ever use it except for 
mail orders or very rare large purchases like a set of tires.

Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't you?), you can 
get fraudulent charges removed easily.

The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It unlocks 
his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in them. They're 
everywhere

What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would a few 
seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas drivers licenses 
will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the mood to be 
very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read the info 
automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I have no way to know 
whether that's been successful. -- Mixon

True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, 
save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.


-
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For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] RFID chips

[Mixon Bill]

No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs  
both the reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does  
everybody worry about things like sending their credit card numbers  
over the Internet or electronic cloning, when they're prefectly  
willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it  
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters  
have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read  
the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'  
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe  
credit-card readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card  
numbers. But if you're really worried about it, you could take the  
suggestion to wrap your card in aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're  
like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare  
large purchases like a set of tires.


Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't  
you?), you can get fraudulent charges removed easily.


The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It  
unlocks his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in  
them. They're everywhere


What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would  
a few seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas  
drivers licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.  
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the  
mood to be very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read  
the info automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I  
have no way to know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] RFID chips

[Mixon Bill]

No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs  
both the reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does  
everybody worry about things like sending their credit card numbers  
over the Internet or electronic cloning, when they're prefectly  
willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it  
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters  
have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read  
the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'  
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe  
credit-card readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card  
numbers. But if you're really worried about it, you could take the  
suggestion to wrap your card in aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're  
like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare  
large purchases like a set of tires.


Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't  
you?), you can get fraudulent charges removed easily.


The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It  
unlocks his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in  
them. They're everywhere


What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would  
a few seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas  
drivers licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.  
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the  
mood to be very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read  
the info automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I  
have no way to know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] RFID chips

[Mixon Bill]

No new news there. To really abuse the card as shown, somebody needs  
both the reader and the cloner. Sure it could happen. But why does  
everybody worry about things like sending their credit card numbers  
over the Internet or electronic cloning, when they're prefectly  
willing to give their credit card to a waiter who disappears with it  
temporarily and does God knows what while he's got it? Some waiters  
have been found to have credit-card readers, the simple kind that read  
the magnetic stripe, of their own. Some people have hacked merchants'  
computers and intercepted the data from ordinary magnetic-stripe  
credit-card readers. There are plenty of ways to get credit card  
numbers. But if you're really worried about it, you could take the  
suggestion to wrap your card in aluminum foil--not a hassle if you're  
like me and hardly ever use it except for mail orders or very rare  
large purchases like a set of tires.


Anyway, if you check your statement every month (you _do_, don't  
you?), you can get fraudulent charges removed easily.


The good news it that the technology is very short range.

I have a weird friend who has injected an RFID chip into his hand. It  
unlocks his smart phone; some Android phones have RFID chip readers in  
them. They're everywhere


What I'd be interested to hear is how one can kill an RFID chip. Would  
a few seconds in a microwave do it, for example? At some point Texas  
drivers licenses will have RFID chips in them--maybe some already do.  
If somebody wants to see my drivers license, I might not be in the  
mood to be very helpful, and it would be nice if he couldn't just read  
the info automatically. I've tried to demagnetize the stripe, but I  
have no way to know whether that's been successful. -- Mixon


True friends stab you in the front.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Gonzo Guano Gear

[Jim Kennedy]

I recently received word that GGG will be at Colorado Bend State Park this 
weekend selling gear at the NCRC seminar.  If you want anything, Becky will be 
at the Conference Center on Saturday only.

-- Jim

[Texascavers] Gonzo Guano Gear

[Jim Kennedy]

I recently received word that GGG will be at Colorado Bend State Park this 
weekend selling gear at the NCRC seminar.  If you want anything, Becky will be 
at the Conference Center on Saturday only.

-- Jim

[Texascavers] Gonzo Guano Gear

[Jim Kennedy]

I recently received word that GGG will be at Colorado Bend State Park this 
weekend selling gear at the NCRC seminar.  If you want anything, Becky will be 
at the Conference Center on Saturday only.

-- Jim

[SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Mark Minton]

Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


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[SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Mark Minton]

Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


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[SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Mark Minton]

Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


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___
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Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

[William Tucker]

What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the 
acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, 
I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating 
colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use 
the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some 
velifer that I mentioned.


William

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Evatt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM
To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not
rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a
number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few
nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one
instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats
hibernate in another one.

Jim


-Original Message- 
From: William Tucker

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang
around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest
known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the
summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there
though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in
Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other
significant groups.

William

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Evatt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM
To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham
Cc: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small
hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern.  Species I'm not sure of, but numbers
ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's
closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of
federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a
biological disaster prevention issue.

Jim

-Original Message- 
From: wnsliai...@caves.org

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM
To: Kenneth Ingham
Cc: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general
statement about show caves.  I've heard owners of some of them
complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public
thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open,
or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open.

Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being
migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave -
down in the Big Room area.  Either way, I doubt the microclimate
conditions are conducive to WNS.

And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park
Service would close the cave anyway.  That would basically kill the
Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City
would be loud.

Peter

Quoting Kenneth Ingham :


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

Their last paragraph reads:
Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East
that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could
have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease
reaches New Mexico.

It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns
National Park.

Kenneth


On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote:

Really.  That last statement puzzled me.  What cave are they
talking about?

Peter

Quoting Kenneth Ingham :

I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen
complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last
night.

I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept
comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people
in the world who does not use it).  Maybe others can leave a useful
comment.

Kenneth

On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote:

KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting
last night:

http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso

Lee Skinner


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Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological
Society (802) 272-3802

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iFYEAR

Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

[William Tucker]

What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the 
acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, 
I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating 
colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use 
the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some 
velifer that I mentioned.


William

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Evatt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM
To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not
rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a
number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few
nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one
instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats
hibernate in another one.

Jim


-Original Message- 
From: William Tucker

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang
around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest
known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the
summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there
though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in
Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other
significant groups.

William

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Evatt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM
To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham
Cc: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small
hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern.  Species I'm not sure of, but numbers
ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's
closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of
federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a
biological disaster prevention issue.

Jim

-Original Message- 
From: wnsliai...@caves.org

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM
To: Kenneth Ingham
Cc: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general
statement about show caves.  I've heard owners of some of them
complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public
thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open,
or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open.

Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being
migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave -
down in the Big Room area.  Either way, I doubt the microclimate
conditions are conducive to WNS.

And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park
Service would close the cave anyway.  That would basically kill the
Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City
would be loud.

Peter

Quoting Kenneth Ingham :


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Hash: SHA224

Their last paragraph reads:
Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East
that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could
have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease
reaches New Mexico.

It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns
National Park.

Kenneth


On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote:

Really.  That last statement puzzled me.  What cave are they
talking about?

Peter

Quoting Kenneth Ingham :

I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen
complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last
night.

I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept
comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people
in the world who does not use it).  Maybe others can leave a useful
comment.

Kenneth

On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote:

KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting
last night:

http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso

Lee Skinner


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Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological
Society (802) 272-3802

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Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

[William Tucker]

What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the 
acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, 
I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating 
colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use 
the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some 
velifer that I mentioned.


William

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Evatt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM
To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not
rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a
number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few
nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one
instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats
hibernate in another one.

Jim


-Original Message- 
From: William Tucker

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang
around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest
known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the
summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there
though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in
Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other
significant groups.

William

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Evatt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM
To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham
Cc: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small
hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern.  Species I'm not sure of, but numbers
ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's
closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of
federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a
biological disaster prevention issue.

Jim

-Original Message- 
From: wnsliai...@caves.org

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM
To: Kenneth Ingham
Cc: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media

The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general
statement about show caves.  I've heard owners of some of them
complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public
thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open,
or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open.

Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being
migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave -
down in the Big Room area.  Either way, I doubt the microclimate
conditions are conducive to WNS.

And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park
Service would close the cave anyway.  That would basically kill the
Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City
would be loud.

Peter

Quoting Kenneth Ingham :


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

Their last paragraph reads:
Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East
that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could
have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease
reaches New Mexico.

It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns
National Park.

Kenneth


On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote:

Really.  That last statement puzzled me.  What cave are they
talking about?

Peter

Quoting Kenneth Ingham :

I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen
complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last
night.

I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept
comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people
in the world who does not use it).  Maybe others can leave a useful
comment.

Kenneth

On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote:

KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting
last night:

http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso

Lee Skinner


___ SWR mailing
list s...@caver.net
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___ This list is
provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET


___ SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
___ This list is
provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET





Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological
Society (802) 272-3802

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