Re: [Texascavers] Wikipedia related
-Original Message- From: David via Texascavers There are also numerous speleologist listed, but you have to know their name to search for them: Categories can help with this. For example, the category on Caves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Caves) pretty much links directly or indirectly (subcategories, though not strictly a tree organization) to most articles related to caves, caving, speleology, speleologists, cavers, etc.. Remember, though that Wikipedia is constantly evolving; and, like biological evolution, it tends to trend in a "positive" direction with punctuated backward steps. Feel free to jump in and help if you see something that could be improved. Also, Wikipedia is not the only source (and because of its rules likely will never be) of wiki-like speleological info. For example, my grotto, LAG, has set up a wiki which we used to develop a cave inventory book, among other things: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/. Happy armchair caving to you. William ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] unique Texas cave
This is probably the same Frank Earnest Nicholson who led the New York Times sponsored expedition to Carlsbad Caverns in 1930. He ghost wrote Jim White's booklet in exchange for payment of a boarding bill owed to Charlie White (no relation) of Whites City. He showed up at the cave with 14 assistants. Superintendent Jim Boles limited him to 4 and followed his every move while in the cave. He also brought in rail cars loaded with boats and a hot air balloon which were never used. Nicholson Pit, in the back of the Mystery Room, is named for him. His reports about Carlsbad Caverns are infamous and he was known to exaggerate. Check out what Robert Nymeyer and William R. Halliday have to say about him in their book: "Carlsbad Cavern The Early Years: A Photographic History of the Cave and its People". William -Original Message- From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 3:31 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] unique Texas cave Published, apparently seriously, in the "News-Letter of the Exploration & Location Committee" of the NSS, #1, Jan. 1943: A condensation of information on the exploration of a limestone cave near Boerne, Texas, about 1932 by a party headed by Dr. Frank E. Nicholson, indicates that it is perhaps the most unusual phenomenon in our science. The information is from an old reference, and anyone having further information on this cave please contact this committee. 500 feet within the cave is a subterranean lake overhung by stalactites which reach to the surface of the water, requiring swimming under water for 200 feet. Occasional "pockets" permit breathing. This expedition penetrated beyond the lake to a great vaulted tunnel, which contained a "bottomless pit," subterranean spring, and stream. Progress was possible to a point one mile from the entrance and 600 feet below the surface. The most unusual feature of the cave is that in it were found white colored blind crayfish, pheletrodroid salamanders, and blind, white translucent frogs. Most unbelievable is the report that at the cave's lowest level (one mile from entrance and 600 feet underground) 50 Spanish oak and Hackberry trees were found growing. That trees can grow in complete darkness with the complete absence of light and sunshine is a phenomenon that demands further investigation by speleologists. The chairman of the committee and presumably author of the piece was Erwin Bischoff. Scan of original can be found at http://www.karstportal.org/FileStorage/NSS_news/1941-v001-001.pdf --Mixon ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14
Hi Charles. Tuesday the 10th will work fine. Saturday, the 14th, is a cleanup day and we will not be entering the cave on that day. It is best if you do not come on Saturday. I plan to send out an email (probably tonight) as soon as I hear back from CAVE if my final plans will work for them. It will have the details you need. We will begin gathering each morning in the large hut at 8:00 AM. I will add you to the permit and am looking forward to it. Thanks, William -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:06 AM To: William Tucker Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14 William, mark me down for Tuesday 10th and Sat 14th. What time do you want me over there and were should I meet you, at the cabins? On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 7:03 AM, William Tucker wrote: Hi Charles, I am in the process of finalizing the plans for the Restoration Field Camp. If you would like to attend some of the days as indicated below, you are welcome to. Please let me know. I have to add your name to the permit if you plan to attend, so please let me know, soon, what days you are interested in. Thanks, William - Original Message - From: "Charles Goldsmith" To: "William Tucker" Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14 William, I'm interested in helping out, but I doubt I can get the whole week off of work. I currently live in Hobbs, so I'm within decently easy driving distance. If you have a spot for me for a couple of days, I won't take up any bunk space and I can help out wherever you need me. The money isn't a problem, I don't have a problem paying the full fare for just part of the week. Either way, keep me in the loop. Thanks! On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:24 PM, William Tucker wrote: Hello everyone, Please feel free to forward this message to whomever may be interested. Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 9 - 14, 2014 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights, visible from the porch, are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The cost of the camp is $30 which provides 4 evening meals and a commemorative T-Shirt. We plan to eat one other evening meal at a restaurant in Carlsbad sometime during the week at additional expense. Please RSVP soon. Camp space is limited. You will be notified and additional details will be provided when your response is received. Please note that signups are not strictly first-come, first-served. We will collect applications and then Tammy and I will evaluate them to select the group that can best achieve the goals. I plan to select the team around May 24-25 if we have received enough applicants by then. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, please contact William Tucker (mailto:mailto:william.tucker%40att.net). Please include your T-Shirt size preference in your RSVP message. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp Thanks, William and Tammy Tucker - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14
Hi Charles, I am in the process of finalizing the plans for the Restoration Field Camp. If you would like to attend some of the days as indicated below, you are welcome to. Please let me know. I have to add your name to the permit if you plan to attend, so please let me know, soon, what days you are interested in. Thanks, William - Original Message - From: "Charles Goldsmith" To: "William Tucker" Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14 William, I'm interested in helping out, but I doubt I can get the whole week off of work. I currently live in Hobbs, so I'm within decently easy driving distance. If you have a spot for me for a couple of days, I won't take up any bunk space and I can help out wherever you need me. The money isn't a problem, I don't have a problem paying the full fare for just part of the week. Either way, keep me in the loop. Thanks! On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:24 PM, William Tucker wrote: Hello everyone, Please feel free to forward this message to whomever may be interested. Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 9 - 14, 2014 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights, visible from the porch, are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The cost of the camp is $30 which provides 4 evening meals and a commemorative T-Shirt. We plan to eat one other evening meal at a restaurant in Carlsbad sometime during the week at additional expense. Please RSVP soon. Camp space is limited. You will be notified and additional details will be provided when your response is received. Please note that signups are not strictly first-come, first-served. We will collect applications and then Tammy and I will evaluate them to select the group that can best achieve the goals. I plan to select the team around May 24-25 if we have received enough applicants by then. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, please contact William Tucker (mailto:mailto:william.tucker%40att.net). Please include your T-Shirt size preference in your RSVP message. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp Thanks, William and Tammy Tucker - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria
If articles on Wikipedia can be used as some type of statistical sampling, for whatever it is worth (not much): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Caves_of_Nigeria The only cave listed is a show cave in the southeast. As typical of cave articles outside of the west, little or no mention of the geology or speleology, just cultural and religious significance. No mention if this one is even limestone; though, I suspect it probably is. William -Original Message- From: George Veni Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:05 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria NCKRI is part of a team working on a new and massively updated World Karst Map. I just looked at the draft map and it doesn't show any karst in Nigeria. However, there are some sedimentary units that are mostly sandstone, shale, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some limestone mixed in those units that doesn't show up at the mapping scale we're using, although we are continuing to dig through the data to pull out more information on karstic and potentially karstic units. The final map will be finished in a couple of years and may show something on Nigeria that isn't in the current draft. In general, I agree with Mark that caves are most likely sandstone shelters or maybe mines. George George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:35 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves of Nigeria I'm certainly no expert, but Middleton & Waltham, "The Underground Atlas" (1986) says that Nigeria has little surface limestone and no major karst features. However it also says that there are some extensive caves in sandstone. Some are apparently large enough that they were being considered for tourist development. However that is in the southern part of the country, whereas the girls are thought to be held in the north. As is often the case with news reports like this, the so-called caves may really be mines and/or rock shelters. Mark At 08:59 AM 5/13/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote: Last night on the PBS NewsHour there was an in-depth interview on the kidnapped girls in Nigeria. They are suspected of being hidden in "endless caves" in the mountains along the border. Are there any Nigeria cave experts out there? Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14
Hi Charles, I will let you know as soon as I can. Thanks, William - Original Message - From: "Charles Goldsmith" To: "William Tucker" Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14 William, I'm interested in helping out, but I doubt I can get the whole week off of work. I currently live in Hobbs, so I'm within decently easy driving distance. If you have a spot for me for a couple of days, I won't take up any bunk space and I can help out wherever you need me. The money isn't a problem, I don't have a problem paying the full fare for just part of the week. Either way, keep me in the loop. Thanks! On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:24 PM, William Tucker wrote: Hello everyone, Please feel free to forward this message to whomever may be interested. Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 9 - 14, 2014 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights, visible from the porch, are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The cost of the camp is $30 which provides 4 evening meals and a commemorative T-Shirt. We plan to eat one other evening meal at a restaurant in Carlsbad sometime during the week at additional expense. Please RSVP soon. Camp space is limited. You will be notified and additional details will be provided when your response is received. Please note that signups are not strictly first-come, first-served. We will collect applications and then Tammy and I will evaluate them to select the group that can best achieve the goals. I plan to select the team around May 24-25 if we have received enough applicants by then. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, please contact William Tucker (mailto:mailto:william.tucker%40att.net). Please include your T-Shirt size preference in your RSVP message. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp Thanks, William and Tammy Tucker - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Restoraton Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns, June 9-14
Hello everyone, Please feel free to forward this message to whomever may be interested. Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 9 - 14, 2014 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights, visible from the porch, are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The cost of the camp is $30 which provides 4 evening meals and a commemorative T-Shirt. We plan to eat one other evening meal at a restaurant in Carlsbad sometime during the week at additional expense. Please RSVP soon. Camp space is limited. You will be notified and additional details will be provided when your response is received. Please note that signups are not strictly first-come, first-served. We will collect applications and then Tammy and I will evaluate them to select the group that can best achieve the goals. I plan to select the team around May 24-25 if we have received enough applicants by then. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, please contact William Tucker (mailto:mailto:william.tucker%40att.net). Please include your T-Shirt size preference in your RSVP message. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp Thanks, William and Tammy Tucker - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[SWR] Oklahoma removed from list of suspected bat fungus areas
I haven't seen anyone discussing this; possibly because the news has not gotten around, yet. I just received this press announcement. May 6, 2014 A service of the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation OKLAHOMA REMOVED FROM LIST OF SUSPECTED BAT FUNGUS AREAS After re-examining an Oklahoma bat specimen originally tested in 2010, scientists with the U.S. Geological Survey National Wildlife Health Center have dropped Oklahoma from the list of areas where White-Nose Syndrome in bats has been suspected or confirmed. The scientists have also removed the Cave Myotis (Myotis velifer) from the list of bat species that have tested positive for the fungus (Pseudogymnoascus destructans) that has been associated with White-Nose Syndrome, which since 2006 has killed millions of hibernating bats primarily in the eastern United States and Canada. The Oklahoma specimen was collected in a private Woodward County cave in May 2010, and at the time appeared to have the fungus. While original test results were positive for the fungus associated with White-Nose Syndrome, new testing procedures have revealed the bat was not infected with the fungus and did not show characteristic lesions. Five bats tested from that private cave in 2010-11, along with 81 swabs from that cave and surrounding caves taken in 2013-14, failed to show the presence of the fungus. This monitoring will continue in 24 caves across the state. Shortly after the suspected case of White-Nose Syndrome, the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation created the Oklahoma Bat Coordinating Team, composed of at least 20 entities that have direct bat and cave management responsibilities. The team created a communication plan involving scientific cooperators, interested parties, stakeholders and user groups on bat and cave management, bat research and bat diseases in Oklahoma. The team has been active in creating the state's White-Nose Syndrome Response Plan and participating in disease surveillance work in multiple cave systems in Oklahoma. Wildlife Department biologists commended the U.S. Geological Survey National Wildlife Heath Center's continued efforts to ensure accuracy and transparency in diagnostic results. For more information on White-Nose Syndrome, visit whitenosesyndrome.org. For general information about bats including a "Bats of Oklahoma Field Guide," visit wildlifedepartment.com. - 30 - News Contacts: Don P. Brown or Micah Holmes (405) 521-4632 Website: www.wildlifedepartment.com E-mail: i...@odwc.state.ok.us This program receives federal assistance from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and thus prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, disability, age, and sex (gender), pursuant to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (as amended), Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, the Age Discrimination Act of 1975, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. To request an accommodation or informational material in an alternative format, please contact the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation by calling (405) 521-3855. If you believe you have been discriminated against in any program, activity, or service, please contact U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration Program, Attention: Civil Rights Coordinator for Public Access, 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Arlington, VA 22203. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Clarification
Carl, et al. Here is an interview with Jim Goodbar about the Spirit World at the Top of the Cross dome in Carlsbad Caverns describing the first exploration: http://www.nps.gov/cave/planyourvisit/upload/chu_20031215.pdf. The interview was done on the 18th anniversary of the original exploration. A rope from the Big Room floor to the original bolts has been in place for a while. Derek and his team used this rope to get up there. From there they traversed and, I was told, they installed a new rope to avoid the traverse in the future. The original rope was bolted on the opposite side with a pit between it and Spirit World thus requiring a traverse. Though I haven't seen it, I am told that both ropes are in place right now. This new discovery was a lead up in Spirit World. A belayed lead climb, one bolt and some free climbing was used to access a ledge behind a flowstone cascade. They found an 80' lead with a large room and possible other leads: Halloween Hall. Way to go Derek and team. William -Original Message- From: Carl Pagano Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:28 AM To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Clarification Hi. I understood from way back, that a helium balloon with a balsa wood frame and a small cord was floated up to an outcropping leading to Spirit World. From there a rope was pulled through, and Donald Davis and a few others managed to get up there and explore. How did they do it this time? In reading it, I got something about bolts being used. From the cavern floor, it looks like the ceiling is directly overhead. Must have been quite a climb up…… Now, I understand how, after all these years, that more cave was found. Cavers believed that there was always more passage up there. I had been told this from the first time I set foot in Carlsbad. Another question is: Is the rock the same as on the floor of the Cavern? I'm no geologist, and don't claim to be, but again, my understanding is that Dolomite is a harder form of limestone. By careful and thoughtless extrapolation and inference, this would mean that it would take longer to dilate. Seriously, how was the climb up done this time? Thanks, Carl…... ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 3 - 8, 2013 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights, visible from the porch, are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The cost of the camp is $30 which provides 4 evening meals and a commemorative T-Shirt. We plan to eat one other evening meal at a restaurant in Carlsbad sometime during the week at additional expense. There are spaces still available; but, please RSVP soon. Camp space is limited. You will be notified and additional details will be provided when your response is received. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, please contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net). Please include your T-Shirt size preference in your RSVP message. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp Feel free to advertise this to members of your grottos or individuals who you think would be interested and of benefit to the effort. Thank you, William Tucker ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 3 - 8, 2013 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights, visible from the porch, are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The cost of the camp is $30 which provides 4 evening meals and a commemorative T-Shirt. We plan to eat one other evening meal at a restaurant in Carlsbad sometime during the week at additional expense. There are spaces still available; but, please RSVP soon. Camp space is limited. You will be notified and additional details will be provided when your response is received. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, please contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net). Please include your T-Shirt size preference in your RSVP message. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp Feel free to advertise this to members of your grottos or individuals who you think would be interested and of benefit to the effort. Thank you, William Tucker ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 3 - 8, 2013 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights, visible from the porch, are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The cost of the camp is $30 which provides 4 evening meals and a commemorative T-Shirt. We plan to eat one other evening meal at a restaurant in Carlsbad sometime during the week at additional expense. There are spaces still available; but, please RSVP soon. Camp space is limited. You will be notified and additional details will be provided when your response is received. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, please contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net). Please include your T-Shirt size preference in your RSVP message. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp Feel free to advertise this to members of your grottos or individuals who you think would be interested and of benefit to the effort. Thank you, William Tucker ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Local News Story
I asked the reporter about it and she responded that she may have been confused with an aquifer that Hazel was also talking about off camera. I gave the reporter the chance to say it was like "20,000 leagues under the sea" where it was referring to distance and not depth; but, she didn't take it. William -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:20 AM To: Peter Jones Cc: Bill Bentley ; s...@caver.net ; Texascavers Mailing List ; PBSS Mailing List Subject: Re: [SWR] Local News Story I think that's 15,000 into the cave - reporters don't always appreciate how literally cavers interpret what they say. I've heard rumors Hazel has been on the doorstep to Hell before. Peter Y. Quoting Peter Jones : Yeah, I knew Hazel was a hardcore Lech caver, but 15 thousand feet deep is outstanding. I'd say she's on the doorstep to Hell at that depth?.. Peter On May 9, 2013, at 7:27 AM, Bill Bentley wrote: 15,000' feet down in the cave? WOW! http://www.newswest9.com/category/163304/video-landing-page?clipId=&topVideoCatNo=121765&topVideoCatNoB=83259&topVideoCatNoC=182033&topVideoCatNoD=169582&topVideoCatNoE=169586&clipId=8859078&autostart=true ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Local News Story
I asked the reporter about it and she responded that she may have been confused with an aquifer that Hazel was also talking about off camera. I gave the reporter the chance to say it was like "20,000 leagues under the sea" where it was referring to distance and not depth; but, she didn't take it. William -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:20 AM To: Peter Jones Cc: Bill Bentley ; s...@caver.net ; Texascavers Mailing List ; PBSS Mailing List Subject: Re: [SWR] Local News Story I think that's 15,000 into the cave - reporters don't always appreciate how literally cavers interpret what they say. I've heard rumors Hazel has been on the doorstep to Hell before. Peter Y. Quoting Peter Jones : Yeah, I knew Hazel was a hardcore Lech caver, but 15 thousand feet deep is outstanding. I'd say she's on the doorstep to Hell at that depth?.. Peter On May 9, 2013, at 7:27 AM, Bill Bentley wrote: 15,000' feet down in the cave? WOW! http://www.newswest9.com/category/163304/video-landing-page?clipId=&topVideoCatNo=121765&topVideoCatNoB=83259&topVideoCatNoC=182033&topVideoCatNoD=169582&topVideoCatNoE=169586&clipId=8859078&autostart=true ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Local News Story
I asked the reporter about it and she responded that she may have been confused with an aquifer that Hazel was also talking about off camera. I gave the reporter the chance to say it was like "20,000 leagues under the sea" where it was referring to distance and not depth; but, she didn't take it. William -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:20 AM To: Peter Jones Cc: Bill Bentley ; s...@caver.net ; Texascavers Mailing List ; PBSS Mailing List Subject: Re: [SWR] Local News Story I think that's 15,000 into the cave - reporters don't always appreciate how literally cavers interpret what they say. I've heard rumors Hazel has been on the doorstep to Hell before. Peter Y. Quoting Peter Jones : Yeah, I knew Hazel was a hardcore Lech caver, but 15 thousand feet deep is outstanding. I'd say she's on the doorstep to Hell at that depth?.. Peter On May 9, 2013, at 7:27 AM, Bill Bentley wrote: 15,000' feet down in the cave? WOW! http://www.newswest9.com/category/163304/video-landing-page?clipId=&topVideoCatNo=121765&topVideoCatNoB=83259&topVideoCatNoC=182033&topVideoCatNoD=169582&topVideoCatNoE=169586&clipId=8859078&autostart=true ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some velifer that I mentioned. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thun
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some velifer that I mentioned. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thun
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some velifer that I mentioned. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thun
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ T
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ T
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (>30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham : I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ T
[SWR] CAVE Inventory Project
Hi all, I just wanted to bring the SWR (and those lurking on this list) up-to-date on the Carlsbad Caverns National Park (CAVE) Cave Inventory project. This project was started in an effort to improve the information that is being collected by the Carlsbad Caverns National Park Cave Inventory form. Its goal is to provide a description and relevant photographs of each of the inventory items on the form to make it easier for those doing inventory to identify these resources in-cave. It is an online Wiki much like Wikipedia. The results of the wiki are rendered into a book to be printed and made available in places like the research huts at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Anyone can help with this project if they so desire. Many in the SWR have already done so. The base URL where this project is hosted is: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Cave_inventory. There you can read about the project and how to go about helping with it. You can also download a copy of the most recently rendered book -- just use the prominent link in the upper right corner. Beware, though, the book is large. If you would like to help with this effort, just send me an email message and I will gladly create an account for you to use. Unlike Wikipedia, we are not allowing anyone to edit without registering and logging in. This is to reduce (so far, eliminate) spam and malicious changes to the wiki. Thank you to all of those who have submitted photographs and descriptions for the various cave inventory resources so far. The book is looking good; but, we still need about 50 articles (http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages) and a few of the articles still need images (http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Needs_image). Also, if you know of any good references for desciptions of any of these resources: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Needs_references, which are mostly biological or fossils, please let me know. Please remember that while photographic credits are allowed, cave names and locations should not be included. There is really no reason to identify the location that a photograph was taken, just the resource shown. This is to protect the caves. Thanks, William ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] CAVE Inventory Project
Hi all, I just wanted to bring the SWR (and those lurking on this list) up-to-date on the Carlsbad Caverns National Park (CAVE) Cave Inventory project. This project was started in an effort to improve the information that is being collected by the Carlsbad Caverns National Park Cave Inventory form. Its goal is to provide a description and relevant photographs of each of the inventory items on the form to make it easier for those doing inventory to identify these resources in-cave. It is an online Wiki much like Wikipedia. The results of the wiki are rendered into a book to be printed and made available in places like the research huts at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Anyone can help with this project if they so desire. Many in the SWR have already done so. The base URL where this project is hosted is: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Cave_inventory. There you can read about the project and how to go about helping with it. You can also download a copy of the most recently rendered book -- just use the prominent link in the upper right corner. Beware, though, the book is large. If you would like to help with this effort, just send me an email message and I will gladly create an account for you to use. Unlike Wikipedia, we are not allowing anyone to edit without registering and logging in. This is to reduce (so far, eliminate) spam and malicious changes to the wiki. Thank you to all of those who have submitted photographs and descriptions for the various cave inventory resources so far. The book is looking good; but, we still need about 50 articles (http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages) and a few of the articles still need images (http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Needs_image). Also, if you know of any good references for desciptions of any of these resources: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Needs_references, which are mostly biological or fossils, please let me know. Please remember that while photographic credits are allowed, cave names and locations should not be included. There is really no reason to identify the location that a photograph was taken, just the resource shown. This is to protect the caves. Thanks, William ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] CAVE Inventory Project
Hi all, I just wanted to bring the SWR (and those lurking on this list) up-to-date on the Carlsbad Caverns National Park (CAVE) Cave Inventory project. This project was started in an effort to improve the information that is being collected by the Carlsbad Caverns National Park Cave Inventory form. Its goal is to provide a description and relevant photographs of each of the inventory items on the form to make it easier for those doing inventory to identify these resources in-cave. It is an online Wiki much like Wikipedia. The results of the wiki are rendered into a book to be printed and made available in places like the research huts at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Anyone can help with this project if they so desire. Many in the SWR have already done so. The base URL where this project is hosted is: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Cave_inventory. There you can read about the project and how to go about helping with it. You can also download a copy of the most recently rendered book -- just use the prominent link in the upper right corner. Beware, though, the book is large. If you would like to help with this effort, just send me an email message and I will gladly create an account for you to use. Unlike Wikipedia, we are not allowing anyone to edit without registering and logging in. This is to reduce (so far, eliminate) spam and malicious changes to the wiki. Thank you to all of those who have submitted photographs and descriptions for the various cave inventory resources so far. The book is looking good; but, we still need about 50 articles (http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages) and a few of the articles still need images (http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Needs_image). Also, if you know of any good references for desciptions of any of these resources: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Needs_references, which are mostly biological or fossils, please let me know. Please remember that while photographic credits are allowed, cave names and locations should not be included. There is really no reason to identify the location that a photograph was taken, just the resource shown. This is to protect the caves. Thanks, William ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[Texascavers] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 11 - 16, 2012 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 11 - 16, 2012 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 11 - 16, 2012 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 11 - 16, 2012 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp William ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 11 - 16, 2012 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp William ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, Carlsbad Caverns
Announcing Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 11 - 16, 2012 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (mailto:william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Restoration_Field_Camp William ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Cave inventory wiki
Hello all, I just want to bring the members of the SWR up-to-date on the cave inventory project that was started on the LAG wiki a couple of months ago and announced here. I may be biased (strike that, I AM biased); but, I think the project is looking great. We have a good deal of content and the quality is good to excellent. And, most exciting is the ability to generate an entire, dowloadable PDF of the current cave inventory in the form of a book. This book is suitable for printing which will be needed for locations with no internet access and it can also be loaded onto a portable device for use in the cave if desired. The site also works well as an online resource. The main page of the project can be found here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Cave_inventory A good summary of what has been done and still needs to be done can be found here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Cave_inventory To download the PDF book, go here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=LagWiki:Books/Cave_Inventory and click on the "Download PDF" button at the top of the page. It will regenerate if needed and then a download link will be presented for the PDF itself. Beware, it is over 14 MB in size, and growing. Also, it is probably possible to swamp our server, so don't everybody try to download it at once, please. If it doesn't work, just be patient and try again later. Comments, especially constructive ones, are welcome; and, if you want to contribute to this project, send me an email message to that effect and I will be glad to create an account for you to use. Thanks, William___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Cave inventory wiki
Hello all, I just want to bring the members of the SWR up-to-date on the cave inventory project that was started on the LAG wiki a couple of months ago and announced here. I may be biased (strike that, I AM biased); but, I think the project is looking great. We have a good deal of content and the quality is good to excellent. And, most exciting is the ability to generate an entire, dowloadable PDF of the current cave inventory in the form of a book. This book is suitable for printing which will be needed for locations with no internet access and it can also be loaded onto a portable device for use in the cave if desired. The site also works well as an online resource. The main page of the project can be found here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Cave_inventory A good summary of what has been done and still needs to be done can be found here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Cave_inventory To download the PDF book, go here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=LagWiki:Books/Cave_Inventory and click on the "Download PDF" button at the top of the page. It will regenerate if needed and then a download link will be presented for the PDF itself. Beware, it is over 14 MB in size, and growing. Also, it is probably possible to swamp our server, so don't everybody try to download it at once, please. If it doesn't work, just be patient and try again later. Comments, especially constructive ones, are welcome; and, if you want to contribute to this project, send me an email message to that effect and I will be glad to create an account for you to use. Thanks, William___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Cave inventory wiki
Hello all, I just want to bring the members of the SWR up-to-date on the cave inventory project that was started on the LAG wiki a couple of months ago and announced here. I may be biased (strike that, I AM biased); but, I think the project is looking great. We have a good deal of content and the quality is good to excellent. And, most exciting is the ability to generate an entire, dowloadable PDF of the current cave inventory in the form of a book. This book is suitable for printing which will be needed for locations with no internet access and it can also be loaded onto a portable device for use in the cave if desired. The site also works well as an online resource. The main page of the project can be found here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Cave_inventory A good summary of what has been done and still needs to be done can be found here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Category:Cave_inventory To download the PDF book, go here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=LagWiki:Books/Cave_Inventory and click on the "Download PDF" button at the top of the page. It will regenerate if needed and then a download link will be presented for the PDF itself. Beware, it is over 14 MB in size, and growing. Also, it is probably possible to swamp our server, so don't everybody try to download it at once, please. If it doesn't work, just be patient and try again later. Comments, especially constructive ones, are welcome; and, if you want to contribute to this project, send me an email message to that effect and I will be glad to create an account for you to use. Thanks, William___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[Allcavers] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker___ To Subscribe to this list send a blank message to: allcavers-subscr...@metroplexcavers.org To Unsubscribe send a blank message to: allcavers-unsubscr...@metroplexcavers.org
[Allcavers] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker___ To Subscribe to this list send a blank message to: allcavers-subscr...@metroplexcavers.org To Unsubscribe send a blank message to: allcavers-unsubscr...@metroplexcavers.org
[Allcavers] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker___ To Subscribe to this list send a blank message to: allcavers-subscr...@metroplexcavers.org To Unsubscribe send a blank message to: allcavers-unsubscr...@metroplexcavers.org
[Texascavers] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker
[Texascavers] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker
[Texascavers] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Restoration Field Camp, CCNP, June 26 - July 1
Restoration Field Camp Carlsbad Caverns National Park June 26 - July 1, 2011 This camp is open to anyone 18 years of age or older no matter their caving experience. It is a great opportunity for new cavers to learn about cave conservation, restoration and etiquette. They will receive instructions and guidance and we will be performing meaningful cave restoration projects at the Park all week. It is also a great camp for experienced cavers and restorationists, too. We will be performing various cave restoration and conservation projects in the cave on behalf of Carlsbad Caverns and enjoying our off times together. We will be staying in the historic research huts just a short walk from the Natural Entrance. The evening bat flights visible from the porch are particularly grand. The cost of the camp is being kept to a minimum and the mood will be casual, friendly and fun. The camp is being organized by William and Tammy Tucker on behalf of the Cave Research Foundation. If you are interested, contact William Tucker (william.tuc...@att.net) and you will be sent further details and an application. Camp space is limited and the deadline for contact is May 15. Please distribute this message widely. William Tucker___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Cave Inventory Wiki - especially for the Guads
After a brief discussion on cave inventory with a Park Service Cave Specialist and some CRF members at the Research Hut at Carlsbad Caverns, I had an idea. What if we set up a wiki (like Wikipedia but specifically targeted) dedicated to developing a guide to cave inventory in the Guads? It would be centered around the Carlsbad Cavern Cave Inventory Form which is the most popular inventory form in the Guads, and provide detailed descriptions and relevant photographs for each inventory item on the form. Such a guide could help to improve the quality of cave inventory information that is being gathered by these forms. Everyone in the discussion seemed to agree that it sounded like a good idea. So, I have started the project, here: http://wiki.lubbockareagrotto.org/index.php?title=Cave_inventory LAG already had a wiki up and running and this would be a useful addition to that site. It is a work in progress; but, I plan to contribute to it a little at a time and I am inviting others to help with the project. If you are a caver, especially if you work in the Guads, and you would like to help in developing this cave inventory guide, you will need an account on the wiki. Email me and I will be happy to send you an account to use. You do not need an account to read, just to edit. Please be sure that you have rights to any text or photographs that you include. Also, be sure to resize your photos to a reasonable size. We are not looking for textbook descriptions of speleothems but specifically for descriptions to help identify the resource item when doing a cave inventory. And, if you are new to wikis, don't let that scare you. Just type your text in, save it and let others format it. It is a group effort. Thanks, William ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [Texascavers] underground houses
This discussion has caused me to remember an interesting graph I once saw where someone carried a geiger counter around TX and NM. I found it again, here: http://www.randomuseless.info/vacation/vacation.html. The graph itself is here: http://www.randomuseless.info/vacation/route/route.html. Look at the peaks around Natural Bridge Caverns and the smaller one at Carlsbad Caverns and maybe an even smaller one at Caverns of Sonora. The author claims this might be due to Radon. William - Original Message - From: Louise Power To: Philip L Moss ; Texas Cavers Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 4:51 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] underground houses When I worked at Carlsbad Caverns NP, we were constantly monitored for our radon exposure. Each crew worked in a progressively deeper part of the caverns, then had to work on the surface for a period of time. Also our cave tech, Kay Rohde, came through several times a day with her little air tester which would suck in the air at different points in the cave and then she'd put her findings into her results program to find out where radon was the highest (back of the Big Room during the summer visitor peak, in case you were wondering). I don't know if they still do that or not. Louise -- To: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:26:27 -0600 From: philipm...@juno.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] underground houses In addition to Mixon's criticisms, there is always the issue of alpha radiation. All earth material tends to have some alpha radiation emitters (often more simply and misleadingly called radon). The more surfaces one has that are earth material (dirt, limestone, concrete), the more fresh air ventilation one needs to have healthy air. Is caving dangerous because of alpha radiation? In very few caves is it, because none of us spends that much time in caves. There are some western caves with some incredibly high alpha counts. Is mining dangerous because of the 40-hour work week exposure. No, because mines are ventilated with fresh air and the air quality is monitored. Is living underground without a lot of fresh air ventilation or even cooling your home or business with cave air a health hazard? Yes. Wait a minute, alpha radiation can't even penetrate your skin, so this is all BS. No, because the vector is from breathing in particles that are alpha emitters. Breathing in alpha emitters tends to produce lung cancer. High humidity promotes mold growth and overexposure to mold can cause other lung problems (personal experience and a visit to a pulmonologist). If such a home had any appliances, there would be waste heat that would help (enough for the summertime??) decrease the relative humidity. Natural thermal attenuation and moderation are wonderful things and this email should not be construed to say that they are not worth pursuing. However as with most things in life, the devil is in the details. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business.
Re: [NMCAVER] Jim White Jr.
That link worked a few minutes ago -- try this one instead: http://carlsbadcavernshistory.blogspot.com/ William - Original Message - From: William Tucker To: nmca...@caver.net Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:45 PM Subject: [NMCAVER] Jim White Jr. Bob Hoff is reporting on his Carlsbad Caverns History blog that Jim White Jr. has passed away. Here is a link to the latest entry on the blog: http://carlsbadcavernshistory.blogspot.com/2008/12/jim-white-jr-passes-away.html William -- ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
[NMCAVER] Jim White Jr.
Bob Hoff is reporting on his Carlsbad Caverns History blog that Jim White Jr. has passed away. Here is a link to the latest entry on the blog: http://carlsbadcavernshistory.blogspot.com/2008/12/jim-white-jr-passes-away.html William___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [Texascavers] Cucuy?
A bit of followup on Cucuy. I have tagged the article for deletion asserting lack of notability. This is a primary requirement for any article on Wikipedia and because this cave was unknown to the caving community prior to this article it is clearly not notable by Wikipedia standards. Here is the current page on Wikipedia. It will be deleted in a few days if no protest is mounted. And I do not expect one nor do I expect it to be fruitful even if it does happen. This cave is clearly not notable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuy_cave Here is a history of all of the edits to the page straight from Wikipedia instead of an external site. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cucuy_cave&action=history Finally, here is the notice I place on Skycrab's talk page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Skycrab Thanks to all of you for some of the wording in the assertion of non-notability and the note to Skycrab. William Tucker Chairman Lubbock Area Grotto - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: Cucuy Cave?
It struck me after reading all of the replies that my message elicited both on and off list that some may be mistaken in their mind about who I am. And after talking with Dennis and Sharon Welch tonight -- they confirmed that that was a real possibility. I am not the Bill Tucker of Maverick grotto fame. Hi Bill, sorry about the confusion. I am the fameless William Tucker of LAG. Sorry if I confused anyone. The original goal of my message was not to add a cave to the TSS database -- though I am happy that that has happened. My original goal was to help decide how to deal with the publication of this cave location on such a public web site as Wikipedia. I am not so concerned about this particular cave as about the precedence such an article sets for other caves which may be endangered by such a public disclosure -- especially some of those in SE NM. Though I am sure there are some Texas caves which wouldn't benefit either. Anyway, sorry about the confusion. And if you have already changed Bill Tucker's e-mail address in your address book -- you need to change it back. :) Thanks William Tucker Chairmain Lubbock Area Grotto - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cucuy Cave?
A new article showed up on Wikipedia yesterday about Cucuy cave claiming it to be a cave in San Saba County, Texas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuy_cave I am not sure if it is a real cave or not -- never heard of it but then I have not heard of all of the caves in Texas. Is this a real cave or a fake article? Even if real one could probably argue to get the article removed on the grounds that it is not of any importance. By the way, GPS coords are published along with the article. Thoughts? What to do if anything? Thanks, William
Re: [Texascavers] Using heat to remove graffiti
Don't do it! That seems to be the consensus. It was just an idea I was thinking about -- not the first bad idea I have ever had and probably not the last. There are plenty more where that came from. I just started thinking about the possibilities when I found a large graffiti mark recently. Now, steam just might work -- if I can only figure out how to deliver high pressure steam in a portable fashion. H -- will have to think about it more. Thanks, William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Using heat to remove graffiti
I am wondering about the possibilities of using heat to remove graffiti from formations. Has this been tried? I am thinking of something like a propane torch to loosen or even to completely carbonize the paint which should then come off easier afterwards. Out-gassing is one obvious drawback so it would only seem appropriate in places with good ventilation. But, solvents have the same problems and may even be much worse in this regard. What effect do you think a propane torch would have on the underlying calcite? I am worried that it might crack it or change it in some way. Any comments on this idea? Thanks, William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Tone's adventure with bees
- Original Message - From: "Bill Mixon" Tone's symptoms do not sound like anaphylactic shock. The most prominent and threatening symptom of that is difficulty breathing or swallowing. When people who are truly allergic to bee stings get stung even once, it's a 911 situation if they don't have an epinephine injector with them. There is another source of epinephrine that can come in handy in emergency situations: over-the-counter asthma inhalers. People who know they are severely alergic to insect stings should be carrying an epi-pen (prescription injectible epinephrine in a single dose pen-like device). But often people are unaware and epi-pens are expensive to maintain in a first aid kit. But there is something that is often available for other uses which also contains epinephrine. Over the counter, asthma inhalers like Primatine and others are basically epinephrine and can be used to administer emergency life-saving doses in the absense of the injectable form. Of course the patient has to be able to breath at least a little and multiple doses (10 - 20 good puffs or more) are required to approach the proper dose -- much more than for asthma control. But, benefits can often be seen after just a few puffs. Here is a fairly good article on the subject (just one I found after a quick search): http://www.wemsi.org/epinephrine.html Note, I am not a medical professional in any form but I have taken wilderness first-aid courses which cover this as a sub-topic. William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Candidate Cavern Entrance Northeast of Arsia Mons
Need some more evidence that mars is hollow? http://www.planetary.org/image/caves.jpg And you thought I was joking. :) William - Original Message - From: "William Tucker" To: "texascavers list" Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Candidate Cavern Entrance Northeast of Arsia Mons If the scale on the cutout image is to be believed http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2007/details/cut/PSP_3647_1745_cut_b.jpg It is about 150 X 180 meters. But, I know the real answer here... It is obvious... Mars is hollow! William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Candidate Cavern Entrance Northeast of Arsia Mons
If the scale on the cutout image is to be believed http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2007/details/cut/PSP_3647_1745_cut_b.jpg It is about 150 X 180 meters. But, I know the real answer here... It is obvious... Mars is hollow! William - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Thomas Summers Funeral
I think that the zip code for the Thomas Summers Memorial Fund is not right. I get this idea from the following article: http://www.goupstate.com/article/20070503/NEWS/705030312/-1/BUSINESS and the fact that zip codes in San Antonio are generally (if not always) 78XXX codes. The correct address appears to be: Thomas Summers Memorial Fund c/o Frost Bank P.O. Box 1600 San Antonio, TX, 78296 Thanks, William - Original Message - From: "Mike Burrell" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Thomas Summers Funeral Hi Everyone Thomas' Funeral will be this Saturday May 5th at the Saint Joseph Honey Creek Catholic Church, on Hwy. 46 between Bergheim and Bulverde, at 10:00 AM. There will be a visitation and Rosary at Vaughan's Funeral Home 319 East San Antonio Street in Boerne at 7:00 PM on Friday May 4th. A Trust Fund for Thomas' children at Frost Bank for those of you who would like to make a donation. Thomas Summers Memorial Fund C/O Frost Bank, P.O. Box 1600, San Antonio, TX 87296 If any of our trusted caver friends would like to help and can't stomach funerals we would like to have someone here at the cave and someone at the Summers home during the visitation and especially the funeral. Thanks to the Express News Article everyone knows exactly where the summers home is. Mike Burrell - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Latest news report on CWAN incident
This is a very sad day indeed -- the proper words are hard in coming and are probably not to be found here. I just want to express my sympathies to Tom Summers on the loss of his son, Thomas. And I want to express my deepest sympathies and concern to Thomas' wife and his dear children. Ever since I first found out about this incident this morning, my prayers have been on your behalf. Tom, I pray that, in time, you may find solice and understanding in the tragic loss of your son. It must be a hard thing to find; but, I pray that you find it. I pray for Thomas's wife that she may not be debilitated by this sudden and unexpected loss. And, I pray for the children -- it must be hardest on them. I pray that they may not grieve inappropriately; but that they will fondly remember their father for the man he was. My appreciation to all of those involved in the rescue efforts -- and if anyone knows of any way I might be of help, please do not hesitate to ask. Sincerely, William Tucker - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] FW: whozit? wherezit? help needed identifying site & looters
The last I heard -- and I am not really in-the-loop on this -- was that the credit card records of those on the tour had been subpoenaed and I think there is a $20K (or so) reward for its return. I never heard that the FBI was involved, just local law enforcement. I doubt very much if it has activated the FBI but I could be pleasantly surprised. There was some questions, early on, as to whether this act rose to the level of a felony and the local authorities were reluctant, at first, to get involved. I think some of that changed but my guess is it is going to have to be treated more as a civil matter than a criminal matter hence the delay in any action. It is usually harder for a civil action to gather relevant evidence than a criminal action as private individuals must do the leg work instead of law enforcement. Anyway, it was a very sad day in the caving world and I am anxious to see something of an example set in this case for cave conservation everywhere withing the states. William - Original Message - From: Charles Goldsmith To: ronra...@austin.rr.com Cc: texas cavers Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] FW: whozit? wherezit? help needed identifying site & looters Completely off subject, or sorta, did the FBI ever investigate the theft of the butterfly in Sonora? None of the articles ever stated if they did, and I'm curious. Charles On 4/20/07, Ron Ralph wrote: If anyone has knowledge of this location, please respond to the Barnes address below. Ron Ralph Archeologist From: Texas Archeological Society List [mailto:txarc...@listserv.tamu.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Skiles Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:32 AM To: txarc...@listserv.tamu.edu Subject: whozit? wherezit? help needed identifying site & looters distributed via Oklahoma BLM office - BLM Special Agent Dan Barnes is the lead on this case; his address/ phone is provided below. Please contact him directly if you recognize persons, places, or things in the photos. Please distribute far and wide to your state contacts, contractors, etc. ~~~ I am hoping someone can help me identify a location. The photos were found during a search warrant in Colorado [see links below]. They appear to have show individuals looting an archeological site. I am working with agents in other states trying to figure out where this is. It could be on BLM, USFS, or other lands. If anyone has a clue where this could be, please contact me. Dan Barnes Special Agent BLM, St. George Field Office 435-688-3332 Barnes/ASFO/AZ/BLM/DOI@BLM http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4488.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4489.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4490.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4491.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4492.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4495.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4496.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4497.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4498.jpg http://skiles.net/looting/DSCN4499.jpg ~ Comment of Sarah Schlanger (acting Utah state archaeologist): "Just an educated guess, but the photos look to me like they are from Chihuahuan desert, perhaps from around the Guadalupe Mountains in southern New Mexico or the Big Bend area of Texas. Somewhere on the borderlands, at any rate, down where we've got lots of limestone, caverns, and mountains. The rock house, with its striking green windows, should be recognizable to someone."
