Re: [Texascavers] bat bombs
I have read that book. Very Interesting! Mike Furrey -- From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:29 PM To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] bat bombs Nice little video clip about the bat bomb scheme (but a pox on people who put ads in front of videos that can't be skipped, at least in no way that was obvious to me). There is a whole book about it: Bat Bomb: World War II's Other Secret Weapon, by Jack Couffer, University of Texas Press, 1992. The weapon was never used, perhaps because 500- bomber raids with conventional incendiaries proved to do the job just fine, or perhaps because there was another secret weapon in the wings -- Mixon Nothing is better than complete happiness in life. A ham sandwich is better than nothing. Therefore a ham sandwich is better than complete happiness in life. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] bat bombs
I have read that book. Very Interesting! Mike Furrey -- From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:29 PM To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] bat bombs Nice little video clip about the bat bomb scheme (but a pox on people who put ads in front of videos that can't be skipped, at least in no way that was obvious to me). There is a whole book about it: Bat Bomb: World War II's Other Secret Weapon, by Jack Couffer, University of Texas Press, 1992. The weapon was never used, perhaps because 500- bomber raids with conventional incendiaries proved to do the job just fine, or perhaps because there was another secret weapon in the wings -- Mixon Nothing is better than complete happiness in life. A ham sandwich is better than nothing. Therefore a ham sandwich is better than complete happiness in life. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] End of the world Party
Ahhh man ... one of my favorite places in Texas and I will miss it ... Y'all have fun! Mike -- From: Steve Keselik skese...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:05 AM To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] End of the world Party There will be an end of the world party dec 21 at LaLinda Texas on the Rio Grande down stream from big bend national park.This should be a good chance to visit the area and party like there is no tomorrow - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] End of the world Party
Ahhh man ... one of my favorite places in Texas and I will miss it ... Y'all have fun! Mike -- From: Steve Keselik skese...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:05 AM To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] End of the world Party There will be an end of the world party dec 21 at LaLinda Texas on the Rio Grande down stream from big bend national park.This should be a good chance to visit the area and party like there is no tomorrow - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] End of the world Party
Ahhh man ... one of my favorite places in Texas and I will miss it ... Y'all have fun! Mike -- From: Steve Keselik skese...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:05 AM To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] End of the world Party There will be an end of the world party dec 21 at LaLinda Texas on the Rio Grande down stream from big bend national park.This should be a good chance to visit the area and party like there is no tomorrow - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly)
... and I remember carbide lamp popping contests, flames in the wrong spot if the tank was not on tight enough or the gasket was out of place. I remember putting carbide in a large jar with ... never mind ... I remember, I ain't gonna spend $185 on no wheat lamp. I remember having my IPC (physical science) students work through the carbide + water = acetylene; acetylene + Oxygen = water + carbon dioxide reactions (think that is right, chemistry makes my head hurt). Then I demoed the lamp and showed caving slides to my students. I also remember the carbide lamp assembly contests at OTR. Now my lamps sit on the shelf (but I still cave with electric stuff). Mike From: Louise Power Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:22 PM To: Mark Minton ; Texas Cavers ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I remember way back in the 60s and 70s real cavers all used carbide. I still have my lamp (probably a real antique at this point) and my hardhat with its jury rigged holder. Most thought that people who used electric lamps were wooseys. I can remember somebody saying that caving with a carbide lamp was like caving with a bomb on your head. But we sure thought we were tuff stuff. The worst was when you were way back in some cave and had to change your carbide. Where did you put the used stuff? Some of us took plastic bags and I'm not to sure that was safe. (Bomb-in-a-Bag, because usually there was still some acetylene being made from the last little pieces of mostly spent carbide.) Also, sometimes you turned up your water too much and had a slurry mess to dispose of. I think more efficient electric lamps and longer lasting batteries are probably the most ecologically beneficial. I can say that now from aging wooseyhood. Louise Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:47:30 -0400 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I agree. Calcium carbide is mainly used for production of acetylene for welding where it is not available in tanks. In the West that is increasingly rare. My guess is that carbide will soon cease to be available at reasonable cost. (It is already hazardous cargo.) Mark At 10:07 PM 8/23/2012, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote: Mark, You'd be the best to answer this, wasn't calcium carbide a byproduct of something else, and used to produce commercial acetylene gas quantities? What is the current practice to get the gas? john Lyles No, calcium carbide was never a byproduct. It was, from the late 1800s, and still is, produced by reacting calcium carbonate and coke in electric furnaces. Its major use is still for making acetylene, but where petroleum and natural gas are plentiful, most acetylene today is derived from those instead. The Wikipedia article calcium carbide explains it. --Donald Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] Fw: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly)
... and I remember carbide lamp popping contests, flames in the wrong spot if the tank was not on tight enough or the gasket was out of place. I remember putting carbide in a large jar with ... never mind ... I remember, I ain't gonna spend $185 on no wheat lamp. I remember having my IPC (physical science) students work through the carbide + water = acetylene; acetylene + Oxygen = water + carbon dioxide reactions (think that is right, chemistry makes my head hurt). Then I demoed the lamp and showed caving slides to my students. I also remember the carbide lamp assembly contests at OTR. Now my lamps sit on the shelf (but I still cave with electric stuff). Mike Furrey From: Louise Power Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:22 PM To: Mark Minton ; Texas Cavers ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I remember way back in the 60s and 70s real cavers all used carbide. I still have my lamp (probably a real antique at this point) and my hardhat with its jury rigged holder. Most thought that people who used electric lamps were wooseys. I can remember somebody saying that caving with a carbide lamp was like caving with a bomb on your head. But we sure thought we were tuff stuff. The worst was when you were way back in some cave and had to change your carbide. Where did you put the used stuff? Some of us took plastic bags and I'm not to sure that was safe. (Bomb-in-a-Bag, because usually there was still some acetylene being made from the last little pieces of mostly spent carbide.) Also, sometimes you turned up your water too much and had a slurry mess to dispose of. I think more efficient electric lamps and longer lasting batteries are probably the most ecologically beneficial. I can say that now from aging wooseyhood. Louise Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:47:30 -0400 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I agree. Calcium carbide is mainly used for production of acetylene for welding where it is not available in tanks. In the West that is increasingly rare. My guess is that carbide will soon cease to be available at reasonable cost. (It is already hazardous cargo.) Mark At 10:07 PM 8/23/2012, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote: Mark, You'd be the best to answer this, wasn't calcium carbide a byproduct of something else, and used to produce commercial acetylene gas quantities? What is the current practice to get the gas? john Lyles No, calcium carbide was never a byproduct. It was, from the late 1800s, and still is, produced by reacting calcium carbonate and coke in electric furnaces. Its major use is still for making acetylene, but where petroleum and natural gas are plentiful, most acetylene today is derived from those instead. The Wikipedia article calcium carbide explains it. --Donald Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly)
... and I remember carbide lamp popping contests, flames in the wrong spot if the tank was not on tight enough or the gasket was out of place. I remember putting carbide in a large jar with ... never mind ... I remember, I ain't gonna spend $185 on no wheat lamp. I remember having my IPC (physical science) students work through the carbide + water = acetylene; acetylene + Oxygen = water + carbon dioxide reactions (think that is right, chemistry makes my head hurt). Then I demoed the lamp and showed caving slides to my students. I also remember the carbide lamp assembly contests at OTR. Now my lamps sit on the shelf (but I still cave with electric stuff). Mike From: Louise Power Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:22 PM To: Mark Minton ; Texas Cavers ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I remember way back in the 60s and 70s real cavers all used carbide. I still have my lamp (probably a real antique at this point) and my hardhat with its jury rigged holder. Most thought that people who used electric lamps were wooseys. I can remember somebody saying that caving with a carbide lamp was like caving with a bomb on your head. But we sure thought we were tuff stuff. The worst was when you were way back in some cave and had to change your carbide. Where did you put the used stuff? Some of us took plastic bags and I'm not to sure that was safe. (Bomb-in-a-Bag, because usually there was still some acetylene being made from the last little pieces of mostly spent carbide.) Also, sometimes you turned up your water too much and had a slurry mess to dispose of. I think more efficient electric lamps and longer lasting batteries are probably the most ecologically beneficial. I can say that now from aging wooseyhood. Louise Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:47:30 -0400 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I agree. Calcium carbide is mainly used for production of acetylene for welding where it is not available in tanks. In the West that is increasingly rare. My guess is that carbide will soon cease to be available at reasonable cost. (It is already hazardous cargo.) Mark At 10:07 PM 8/23/2012, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote: Mark, You'd be the best to answer this, wasn't calcium carbide a byproduct of something else, and used to produce commercial acetylene gas quantities? What is the current practice to get the gas? john Lyles No, calcium carbide was never a byproduct. It was, from the late 1800s, and still is, produced by reacting calcium carbonate and coke in electric furnaces. Its major use is still for making acetylene, but where petroleum and natural gas are plentiful, most acetylene today is derived from those instead. The Wikipedia article calcium carbide explains it. --Donald Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly)
... and I remember carbide lamp popping contests, flames in the wrong spot if the tank was not on tight enough or the gasket was out of place. I remember putting carbide in a large jar with ... never mind ... I remember, I ain't gonna spend $185 on no wheat lamp. I remember having my IPC (physical science) students work through the carbide + water = acetylene; acetylene + Oxygen = water + carbon dioxide reactions (think that is right, chemistry makes my head hurt). Then I demoed the lamp and showed caving slides to my students. I also remember the carbide lamp assembly contests at OTR. Now my lamps sit on the shelf (but I still cave with electric stuff). Mike From: Louise Power Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:22 PM To: Mark Minton ; Texas Cavers ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I remember way back in the 60s and 70s real cavers all used carbide. I still have my lamp (probably a real antique at this point) and my hardhat with its jury rigged holder. Most thought that people who used electric lamps were wooseys. I can remember somebody saying that caving with a carbide lamp was like caving with a bomb on your head. But we sure thought we were tuff stuff. The worst was when you were way back in some cave and had to change your carbide. Where did you put the used stuff? Some of us took plastic bags and I'm not to sure that was safe. (Bomb-in-a-Bag, because usually there was still some acetylene being made from the last little pieces of mostly spent carbide.) Also, sometimes you turned up your water too much and had a slurry mess to dispose of. I think more efficient electric lamps and longer lasting batteries are probably the most ecologically beneficial. I can say that now from aging wooseyhood. Louise Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:47:30 -0400 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I agree. Calcium carbide is mainly used for production of acetylene for welding where it is not available in tanks. In the West that is increasingly rare. My guess is that carbide will soon cease to be available at reasonable cost. (It is already hazardous cargo.) Mark At 10:07 PM 8/23/2012, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote: Mark, You'd be the best to answer this, wasn't calcium carbide a byproduct of something else, and used to produce commercial acetylene gas quantities? What is the current practice to get the gas? john Lyles No, calcium carbide was never a byproduct. It was, from the late 1800s, and still is, produced by reacting calcium carbonate and coke in electric furnaces. Its major use is still for making acetylene, but where petroleum and natural gas are plentiful, most acetylene today is derived from those instead. The Wikipedia article calcium carbide explains it. --Donald Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] Fw: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly)
... and I remember carbide lamp popping contests, flames in the wrong spot if the tank was not on tight enough or the gasket was out of place. I remember putting carbide in a large jar with ... never mind ... I remember, I ain't gonna spend $185 on no wheat lamp. I remember having my IPC (physical science) students work through the carbide + water = acetylene; acetylene + Oxygen = water + carbon dioxide reactions (think that is right, chemistry makes my head hurt). Then I demoed the lamp and showed caving slides to my students. I also remember the carbide lamp assembly contests at OTR. Now my lamps sit on the shelf (but I still cave with electric stuff). Mike Furrey From: Louise Power Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:22 PM To: Mark Minton ; Texas Cavers ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I remember way back in the 60s and 70s real cavers all used carbide. I still have my lamp (probably a real antique at this point) and my hardhat with its jury rigged holder. Most thought that people who used electric lamps were wooseys. I can remember somebody saying that caving with a carbide lamp was like caving with a bomb on your head. But we sure thought we were tuff stuff. The worst was when you were way back in some cave and had to change your carbide. Where did you put the used stuff? Some of us took plastic bags and I'm not to sure that was safe. (Bomb-in-a-Bag, because usually there was still some acetylene being made from the last little pieces of mostly spent carbide.) Also, sometimes you turned up your water too much and had a slurry mess to dispose of. I think more efficient electric lamps and longer lasting batteries are probably the most ecologically beneficial. I can say that now from aging wooseyhood. Louise Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:47:30 -0400 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Cave articles in Spiegel (German weekly) I agree. Calcium carbide is mainly used for production of acetylene for welding where it is not available in tanks. In the West that is increasingly rare. My guess is that carbide will soon cease to be available at reasonable cost. (It is already hazardous cargo.) Mark At 10:07 PM 8/23/2012, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote: Mark, You'd be the best to answer this, wasn't calcium carbide a byproduct of something else, and used to produce commercial acetylene gas quantities? What is the current practice to get the gas? john Lyles No, calcium carbide was never a byproduct. It was, from the late 1800s, and still is, produced by reacting calcium carbonate and coke in electric furnaces. Its major use is still for making acetylene, but where petroleum and natural gas are plentiful, most acetylene today is derived from those instead. The Wikipedia article calcium carbide explains it. --Donald Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] Bats
Saw BATS on Texas license plates today in my neighborhood (Spring). Anyone know who? ~F~
Re: [Texascavers] OT-fly story
... and/or arachnids ... -- From: Rod Goke rod.g...@earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:21 AM To: TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT-fly story Are you sure he didn't actually eat it? Certain cavers have been known to eat larger insects than that. Right, Gill? Rod -Original Message- From: J. LaRue Thomas jlrbi...@sonoratx.net Sent: Feb 12, 2011 10:20 AM To: TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT-fly story My first husband also used to do the fly-catching and throwing-to-the-ground thing. For the grandkids he had an interesting sleight-of-hand where he could make it look like he ate the fly. I never could figure out how he did that and he took the secret with him into the next life. Jacqui - Original Message - From: Rod Goke rod.g...@earthlink.net To: TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT-fly story - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Super-secret 'bat bomb' project from So. Texas caves might have ended WW II :
I have the book Bat Bomb, an interesting read. Got it on Amazon. ~F~ From: Don Cooper Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 5:14 AM To: jerryat...@aol.com Cc: Cavers, Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Super-secret 'bat bomb' project from So. Texas caves might have ended WW II : A book title up there with others in the Should be a movie category - like 'Confederacy of Dunces'. (Maybe the latter could be it's subtitle). -WaV On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 1:52 AM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote: Super-secret 'bat bomb' project from So. Texas caves might have ended WW II Randy Beamer Published: 11/19 9:41 pm Updated: 11/20 2:47 pm KAPOW! It was a super-secret project that was developed and researched in San Antonio and South Texas during World War II. And as I discovered, it's still a big mystery today even to some top San Antonio historians. I stumbled onto this story of one of the strangest episodes in San Antonio and even U.S. military history after a bat-slap. Remember when Manu Ginobili made every highlight reel in the world last year when he swatted a wayward bat out of mid-air? The little bat had delayed the game for several minutes swooping around the players at the ATT Center until Manu stunned it with a quick left, picked it up, and walked it off the court . That one weird little incident got me thinking and remembering how bats have played a surprisingly important role in San Antonio history. Then I started doing a little research in my own bat-time. But I had no idea where that little bat-slap would lead me. TO THE BAT CAVE! The smell of guano is overhwhelming. Standing at the mouth of the Bracken Bat Cave north of San Antonio, it's not so much a smell but a vice grip that reaches up your nose and into your head. Your nose twitches and your eyes start to water. Fran Hutchins helps out as a caretaker of the privately-owned cave. He tells me 40 to 50 tons of bat poop -- that's guano -- have been harvested out of the cave since the mid 1850's. And Hutchins, I see, has come prepared. He and a friend have shown up with white bio-suits and masks because they're going deep into the cave after our interview to check on poop levels and such. I had planned only for an interview, not a poop-check, so I don't have a bat-mask. Our interview doesn't last terribly long once we reach the edge of the stench. But Hutchins is one of the few people I found around San Antonio who knew anything about the bat-bomb project. Those I talked with at some of our military and research facilities in town as well as historians who I expected would know all about it -- didn't. Or they knew only a little. Maybe it was that guano smell. Or the fact that the whole thing was so unbelievably weird -- and ultimately never used. ON THE ROAD TO THE BAT BOMB I did know something about our batty history and what bats have meant here. After shooting and reporting on n all kinds of stories here for more than 25 years, I love the history of San Antonio, especially the odd stuff. I had heard, for example, that the old courthouse/city hall that stood on Municipal Plaza in the mid-1800's was called The Bat Cave because it was infested with so many bats. I knew that bat caves here provide tons of valuable guano that's used as high-grade fertilizer that's rich with nitrates. And I also knew that Bracken Cave is home to the biggest single bat colony in the world with millions of Mexican Free-Tailed Bats roosting there. And they have millions more bat-buddies hanging out in caves, nooks, crannies, under bridges and kinds of places all over the Hill Country and South Texas from spring to autumn, when they fly down to Mexico for the winter. They're most impressive just before dusk when they swirl out of caves like Bracken like an immense swarm of bees. Hutchins describes it as a tornado blasting out of the mouth of the cave. A tornado that keeps going for several hours until all those millions of bats are out feasting on insects like mosquitoes. And I remembered stories I shot just last year when the new stretch of the San Antonio River Walk opened and the discovery of a bat-roost above the river and under the I-35 bridge turned the whole thing into even more of a tourist attraction. SERIOUSLY? But the stuff about our bats playing a role in two wars and even the quest for a Nobel Prize? That I don't remember hearing about. You see as it turns out, guano isn't just a great fertilizer. It can also be leached into saltpeter which is used to make gunpowder. And during the Civil War the Confederate Forces here used our caves to mine tons of guano to help manufacture ammunition. Caves were even guarded as there were plenty of Union sympathizers in Texas, though it was officially a part of the Confederacy. You could say bat poop -- at that time -- was the stuff of bullets, not bombs, though that would change. But first it was
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion Dust Bowl 2010
What Carl said! ~F~ From: Carl Kunath Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:05 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion Dust Bowl 2010 Dusty? What dust? Never noticed a thing. Too busy laughing with old friends and making new ones. Had a great time! Many thanks to Allan and all the other, mostly unsung, heroes who make this event possible! ===Carl Kunath - Original Message - From: Allan Cobb To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:47 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion Dust Bowl 2010 Howdy y'all, TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks to all those who came out. Yes, it was a little dusty. That happens when it doesn't rain for a while. I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of TCR. I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen. Thank you to everyone helped. This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come to TCR next year to see the next big surprise. See y'all next year, Allan - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date: 10/17/10 13:33:00
Re: [Texascavers] cave related DVD
The first Descent was well ... anyway because it is a cave movie I'll get it as soon as it shows up a Half Price Book store. ~F~ -- From: dlocklea...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 6:22 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] cave related DVD This probably old news. Fry's has the movie Descent 2, in stock. It only cost $ 19.99 plus tax. I never saw it. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: Subscribe and unsubscribe
It worked! Many thanks for your help. This account will be dead in a week or two. CU at TCR, Mike Mike, I have your emails swapped, good luck. On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 5:41 PM, wa5...@peoplepc.com wrote: Charles, I recently upgraded here ... on broadband and getting off of dial-up. I have tried to subscribe from my new e-mail and I have had no success. Could you help me out with this. My new e-mail: mikefur...@att.net (where I want to get texascavers My old e-mail: wa5...@peoplepc.com (where I currently get texascavers) Many thanks, Mike Furrey
Re: Subscribe and unsubscribe
Many thanks and enjoy the cave trip. I wish I could go more often, Houston is just a bit too far for regular cave excursions. Mike Mike, I will be happy to help, but it will be Wed before I can, am out on a caving trip, no real computer, and only using a phone for email. Sent via C=64 Mobile On Sep 5, 2010, at 5:41 PM, wa5...@peoplepc.com wrote: Charles, I recently upgraded here ... on broadband and getting off of dial-up. I have tried to subscribe from my new e-mail and I have had no success. Could you help me out with this. My new e-mail: mikefur...@att.net (where I want to get texascavers My old e-mail: wa5...@peoplepc.com (where I currently get texascavers) Many thanks, Mike Furrey
Re: Subscribe and unsubscribe
Many thanks and enjoy the cave trip. I wish I could go more often, Houston is just a bit too far for regular cave excursions. Mike Mike, I will be happy to help, but it will be Wed before I can, am out on a caving trip, no real computer, and only using a phone for email. Sent via C=64 Mobile On Sep 5, 2010, at 5:41 PM, wa5...@peoplepc.com wrote: Charles, I recently upgraded here ... on broadband and getting off of dial-up. I have tried to subscribe from my new e-mail and I have had no success. Could you help me out with this. My new e-mail: mikefur...@att.net (where I want to get texascavers My old e-mail: wa5...@peoplepc.com (where I currently get texascavers) Many thanks, Mike Furrey
Subscribe and unsubscribe
Charles, I recently upgraded here ... on broadband and getting off of dial-up. I have tried to subscribe from my new e-mail and I have had no success. Could you help me out with this. My new e-mail: mikefur...@att.net (where I want to get texascavers My old e-mail: wa5...@peoplepc.com (where I currently get texascavers) Many thanks, Mike Furrey
[Texascavers] Short 'n Sweet Cave
I am currently in the Alpine area and want to visit Short 'n Sweet Cave. I last visited it in the early 70's when I was a member of the Paisano Grotto at Sul Ross. I can't remember the directions or contact to get there. All I remember is that it was a nifty little break-down cave between Alpine and Marfa South of Hwy 90. We had to scramble down about 50' into a canyon to get to it. Can someone refresh my memory on that? I believe it to be in Presidio County (or Brewster). I also think the property may have belonged (or leased) to UT as there was a radio telescope out there. Many Thanks, Mike Furrey PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: a cave question (Cave Entrance Tags)
Just groussing ... color-coded tags for: a) explored; b) needs more exploration; c) unexplored ... nah, too much work ... let the next caver that stumbles across that opening decide and have some fun ... ~F~ I've always had good luck getting information on tagged caves in Purificación from Peter Sprouse. However, and this is one of my beefs with the system, it is not always true that a cave has been explored just because it has a tag on it. I saw this in person one time when a group of us were ridgewalking and tagging entrances. We explored what we could, at least enough to know if they were worth returning to, but we didn't have vertical gear with us. When we found a pit entrance, it got tagged but of course wasn't entered. At least one such cave was not returned to on that trip and I don't know if it was ever returned to. So there could be tagged but still virgin caves out there. Another reason I don't like tags is that they discourage people from exploring, precisely because they figure the cave is already known. At it's worst, tags express a form of ownership over a cave, implicitly telling those who come along later that the cave is already taken. Of course new passages are frequently found in known caves, so a second look is always appropriate. One of the best examples of this that I know of occurred in Huautla. I had found a cave on a ridgewalk and explored it, not thinking it amounted to much. We never used tags there. A few years later someone else found the same entrance and also explored. But he found an obscure crawl I had overlooked. That crawl led to one of the best collections of pots and other artifacts we ever found in Huautla. Had I tagged the cave on my initial recon, there's a good chance the second discoverer would not have bothered going in. That would have been a loss to all. Mark Minton At 12:18 PM 6/14/2010, Don Cooper wrote: And another thing about tags Traipsing about the woods around Conrad Castillo - my little group came across a cave at the base of a cliff. It looked like a good one. You could see it drop off to the left and there were stals on the ceiling. It had a tag, so its assumed its already been all accounted for. We're looking for new caves after all. However - who's holding the index? All we had was a little number and there was no information about these tags at the field house. Best we could do was to write down the number and perhaps get Peter Sprouse to look it up for us when we got back to Austin A system. Indeed. Not a real good solution in that time and place. Of course these days, the entire index and all the maps could be put on someone's iPhone. I digress... -WaV On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: Projects like PEP used to mark cave entrances with metal tags. This was intended to serve as a record that a cave was known and recorded in a database. It was not reliable after a few years, though, because the tags could get overgrown with moss, etc. and be difficult to find or fall off due to frost fracturing or other mechanical processes. On large entrances one wouldn't necessarily even know where to look. Where would you tag Infiernillo? Nowadays GPS is a much more reliable method of keeping track of known caves and their locations, although it can also have problems if the data quality is poor or the datum is unknown. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Cookout Report # 6
How to wok your dog ~F~ I know what I would do with him, Roger! Mark From: cavera...@aol.com [mailto:cavera...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:05 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cookout Report # 6 Now you're getting close to home, Bill. One of our two Cairn terriers (bred for ratting underground in Scotland) often climbs into our bed after we are asleep. Occasionally (three times to date, most recently actually last night) he must be having such scary dreams because I will roll over, barely touch him, and get rudely awakened by a bite that slightly breaks the skin. It's usually on an offending finger, but the worst time was the evening he bit me on the nose! He is pushing his luck at this point. And he never bites my wife, presumably because she sleeps deeply and without restlessness. Roger Moore GHG - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Shortest Caves
How 'bout: min - sun can't touch you from sunrise to sunset max - gotta use un-natural light when natural light doesn' work anymore. ~F~ How would you even define what a short cave was? Would it have a minimum length as well as a maximum. Without a minimum every overhang, tinaja, and gopher hole under a rock might qualify. Besides, who would care, other than Gill? ;-) Mark Minton At 07:38 AM 5/25/2010, Chris Vreeland wrote: It may, in fact, be the longest list of caves. On May 24, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Logan McNatt wrote: The list of shortest caves would be really long. Gill Edigar wrote: Well, can't you send them the lists of Deep Long caves of the World? How come nobody keeps a list of the shortest caves? --Ediger On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com wrote: Found an interesting website today that some of you might want to look at. It does not live up to the all things quantifiable quantified claim, e.g. under Natural World I didn't find Caves. It does haveBats, but only the largest and smallest. Some of the categories include foreign and historic measures which can come in handy when you find yourself caving in a far away place, or time. http://www.sizes.com/ Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Spelunker or Caver?
After a few beers pick your favorite and say it ten times ... ~F~ I mainly dislike the word spelunker because it's cumbersome, hard to say, and just sounds ugly compared to the word caver. It wasn't derogatory when I started cave in tin the early 90's, either -- that seems to have become a prevalent sentiment in just he last 190 years or so -- I just don't like saying it. Caver is simpler and more descriptive, even to the general public that never thinks about caves. I think a person who'd never heard either word would more easily understand caver than spelunker, so it's what I use in conversation when people ask me what the bat sticker means. On Apr 20, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Carl Kunath wrote: Wow! This is a subject that never seems to die. My perspective is strictly that of a Texas caver for nearly 50 years and it may be that regional differences are significant. All the 1950s and 1960s Texas cavers that Iassociated with were happy to be called spelunkers. There was absolutely NO stigma associated with the term. Notice on page 156 of50 Years of Texas Cavingthere is a picture of the original Texas Region of the National Speleological reflective sticker that many of that era proudly affixed to their caving headgear. On it, the word spelunkers appears in large letters -- not as an afterthought. In my experience with cave owners (and the general public) in Texas, they often used the term spelunkers spontaneously. As in, Oh, yeah, those spelunkers from San Antonio were here last year. If we introduced the less formal term caver they were just as happy to go along with that as well and usually called us cavers more often than spelunkers. Within our fraternity, the term caver is used far more often than spelunker as matter of convenience and as an offshoot of the verb caving. Some years back when this first became topic, I checked with Bill Russell and found that his views were exactly the same as mine. In the last few years I have heard (mostly newbie) cavers use the expression, Cavers rescue spelunkers. Perhaps it makes them somehow feel superior. What a load of horse s**t! Language is alive and ever-changing so, in time,words mean what we choose to have them mean. Forget all the Latin roots. If you think spelunker sounds funny and is less heroic than caver, I can't hope to change your mind but history argues against you. ===Carl Kunath - Original Message - From:Rod Goke To:David;Cavers Texas Sent:Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:14 PM Subject:Re: [Texascavers] spelunker again, etymology folklore It's really not surprising that media people and other non-cavers tend to think that spelunker is a technical term for caver. They hear cavers refer to the scientific study of caves as speleology and to the scientists who do it as speleologists. Similarly, they notice that cavers often favor the term speleological when naming their official organizations (NSS, TSA, TSS, etc.). Since spelunker more closely resembles these technical sounding terms than does the word caver, people outside the caving community naturally assume that spelunker is the more technical, formal, and preferred term and that caver is merely an informal slang word, perhaps with less respectful connotations. Little do they know that most cavers prefer not to be called spelunkers. The reason for this misunderstanding between cavers and the outside world is that, for decades, cavers have been too embarrassed to explain the etymology of spelunker and how it differs from that of all the technical sounding speleo-whatever words. Cavers like words beginning with speleo because this prefix has a long history of favorable associations with caves and caving. In contrast, words beginning with spelunk have less favorable connotations, because spelunk is the sound made by a caver falling down a pit and splattering onto the floor below. Hence, spelunking is the act of making this sound, and a spelunker is a caver who does it, so no self respecting caver would ever want to become known as a spelunker! Embarrassment over this etymology of spelunker not only has made cavers reluctant to explain it to the outside world, but it also has made a lot of old time cavers reluctant to explain it to subsequent generations. Consequently, all that was effectively passed down through the generations was a seemingly inexplicable aversion to the term, leading to a lot of vague hand waving and speculation among current cavers about why none of them like to be called spelunkers. That, essentially, is the explanation I heard from a few older cavers back when I started caving about 40 years ago, and I haven't heard a better one since. So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it, at least, until I hear someone concoct a better one. ;) Rod - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] oops
Don't apologize, when the caves are filling with water, an alternative activity is always welcome ... Thanks for the idea ~F~ I apologize. That last post wasn't intended for Cavetex. Please delete. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] e-mail related
I am trying hard to stop posting things on CaveTex, NO no ... don't stop, I enjoy a good rant. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] 500 LED Light
WOW MOM WOW! Cave with this! http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/03/500_led_extreme_flashlight. html ~F~ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Don't Mess With Texas
Well, we all know that bumper sticker. Now we know our caver buildings must be strong and stable or we run the risk of Messing with the Texas board of caving. However, worse of all. Don't Mess with the Texas Board of Education. Great press. We never suffer from the lack of entertainment. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Don't Mess With Texas
That TEA ... well no comment (other than hitting one's head against a brick wall) ... as a Texas educator I will be happy to retire in 16 mo and not have deal with TEA anymore but I will miss the working with the kids (physics teacher) To keep this post cave related I drag in to the classroom my old retired cave rope, repelling rack, 8 rings, old Jumars, bat detector and lessons include: 1) frictional coefficient of the rack on the rope 2) tug-o-war with the 220' rope - demo balanced forces 3) frequency division of ultrasonic sounds (extra credit to go watch a bat flight) 4) show the kiddos some caving slides When I taught IPC in the chemistry section lessons included: 1) chemistry of the carbide lamp (yup, brought it to class) 2) chemistry of cave formation process 3) show the kiddos some cave slides ~F~ Well, we all know that bumper sticker. Now we know our caver buildings must be strong and stable or we run the risk of Messing with the Texas board of caving. However, worse of all. Don't Mess with the Texas Board of Education. Great press. We never suffer from the lack of entertainment. Preston in western Ky - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: car that goes like a bat
I 20 - West Texas That assumes that you could even find anywhere to drive anywhere near 200 miles per hour in the first place. Mark At 03:26 PM 3/15/2010, Mixon Bill wrote: $450,000 for 212 MPH not a bad deal. The faster road-legal car by Bugatti gets you 255 MPH, but it costs about $1.6 million, depending on the current value of the euro (plus $100,000 delivery charge, by Air France). Neither is exactly a practical car. The Bugatti will empty its fuel tank in 20 minutes at top speed. Worse than a Hummer, but I don't imagine there will be enough of either of them to have much effect on the price of oil -- Mixon Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The last Hummer truck
Off road visibility is poor, I'll stick with my wagons. ~F~ No. :-) On Feb 25, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Rod Goke wrote: Or in 50 years, will they be as popular as old Powerwagon buses? -Original Message- From: Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:40 PM To: David dlocklea...@gmail.com Cc: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The last Hummer truck It is possible that in 10 or 20 years cavers will want these, kind of like some still like old Scouts, and old Toyota Landcruisers, and old Jeep Wagoneers. Doubt it. --- -- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Yes
Ah well ... ya know ... every once in a while someone gets off their meds. But that's OK, gives the rest of us a smile and adds to the spice of life! Won't keep me from getten' underground with the gang. ~F~ This is the 1st time I have chimed in about anything so I hope I am not being downed for it ? Most definitely not, if most of us put up with Sleaze, we can put up with your questions, comments and concerns :-) All I was really saying is cant we all just get along? NO :-D It made me think twice about going on any group trips. I will just learn all I can and do it with my family and friends. I am not sure how a few folks on the list serve dissuade you from going caving with other Texas cavers. Most are good folks (baring on all). The key is to get to meet cavers in person at Grotto meeting/other caving events. Most grottos have novice trips every few months depending on where you are located. On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:24 PM, bandits...@aol.com wrote: I understand the off topic and some people r very funny so the amount of mail has nothing to do with it! I have been here for half of a year and have learned a lot from people I just find it very amusing when it gets nasty. It made me think twice about going on any group trips. I will just learn all I can and do it with my family and friends. But that's not what I would like. I really want to learn from all the great caver's on this site. All I was really saying is cant we all just get along? This is the 1st time I have chimed in about anything so I hope I am not being downed for it?? Also my 2 cents I agree with guns for protection but also agree that its just easier to leave a cave with a snack. That's its home and we care so much about bats but don't care about the other animals that's just not right.?? Don't get me wrong I have a bat tattoo and have loved them way b4 I wanted to cave. I just want to learn for all of u. I'm an empty slate just trying to learn. Minnow -- George-Paul Richmann (513) 490-3100 gprichm...@gmail.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] GPS degradation
That's the reason I posted the article. I wanted to hear some more questions and answers and opinions. Seems good so far.--Ediger Wll ... I suppose we can always use a sundial, sextant (but stars move), compass (and magnetic poles move), and dead reckoning to plot, discover, find, explore as long as we stay terrestrial ... and get more beer and suntan lotion. In realility the up coming sun spot cycle is thought to a mild one so I won't miss a meal, loose sleep or not go caving worrying about it. ~F~
[Texascavers] FS - Bat houses - 2 fer
Hi boys and girls! While doing a fill-er-up I saw a sign at this establishment that read Bat Houses - buy one get one free I drove across the street to the company and chatted with a very pretty lady and she showed me the very nice very well built bat houses. She also had the data from BCI. Contact Bretney at www.cedarside.com They are located in Old Town Sping ... she said they would ship. ~F~ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] rubber caving boots - more info
David, Nice resources. Anyone still use the 'Nam jungle boots? Seem to be hard to find nowdays. ~F~ Here is a web-site that claims their rubber caving boots are on sale for $ 24.55 http://www.safetekusa.com/Polyblend-Boots-P491.aspx Here are some other boots in the same category: http://www.westernsafety.com/northfootprotection/norcrosspg29-713 04.jpg The one above is called Black Servus Iron Duke, #73104 http://www.westernsafety.com/northfootprotection/norcrosspg29-R11 41.jpg The one above is called Black Ranger 5-Eyelet Safety Work Shoe, #R1141 Here is another brand: http://www.safetysourceinc.com/GroupInfo/GroupID/1119455450 You can possibly find a distributor near you, if you don't want to order them on-line. As Rod Goke mentioned in his post, you need to order them 1/2 loose, so that you can wear neoprene socks, or a layer of 2 socks. Here is a link to more info: http://technology.darkfrontier.us/Wearing/Boots/ If you want the best boots available, the French claim to have them. http://www.etchesecurite.com/products/45/mic_canyon_shoes.html A well-known caver has been a distributor for these boots for many years. U.S. caver's call them Joop Boots, named after the distributor. He will custom fit them to your feet. The best way to contact him is probably Facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1581704107ref=searchsid=18181 18612.148009812..1 I bumped into him at an NSS Convention 2 or 3 years ago, and it seemed he was still doing this. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] caving and insurance
How would a student organization like the geology club be different from a student organization like the caving club? Does that mean that so long as it's not announced as a club trip then everyone would be considered to be an individual caver--not a club member? --Ediger Well ... at Sul Ross (early '70s) I belonged to a Geology Club sponsored by one geology professor and I belonged to the Cave club sponsored by another geology professor (our own DirtDoc) Somethings were the same (meetings) we... Something were different (trips) ... insurance then ... never heard of it Mike - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Fw: north pole moving
Does any one know more about this? Seems if we are using magnetic north to set instruments, readings can change. would like to know your thoughts. Karen Using an accurate magnetic compass for surveying is fine but one would need to indicate the magnetic declination for that location on the created map. Now that GPS is used more for surveying, we don't need to rely on the magnetic compass as much. All USGS topo maps will have the declination on it somewhere BUT if it is an old map, the declination will have changed. Will it be so significant that one will get lost? Probably not. What will throw everything for a loop is when the magnetic poles reverse themselves. Not for us but for the animals that can sense the magnetic field and use it for navigation and/or migration. The following site is what I use to determine the current magnetic declination for a location if I need that accuracy for something http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/Declination.jsp But yes, due to the fluid nature of the Earth's core, the magnetic poles do wander around.
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Can plumbers be trusted with cell phones?
I'm not so much tethered to my iPhone (I turn off the phone regularly) as having a toolkit in my pocket. Calculator, weather, map, translator, radio, remote control, dictionary, camera, sky chart, movie listing, chemical light stick, clock, currency exchange, tip calculator, bird identification book, text, email, Google, and a dozen other ways to pass the time while waiting for my tractor... In one small package. ... and GPS coordinates to your favorite, secret cave ...
[Texascavers] Cave Book
In Half Price book store today I found Caving, The essential guide to equipment and techniqes by Peter Swart for $6. Not bad for the price, good basic info and pretty pictures too! They had about a dozen copies at the Humble, TX store. Mike - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Vehicles to Mexico Belize
Mmaybe give 'em the jeep?? Greetings! George is planning a driving trip to Belize. He will take our Jeep, which has both of us listed on the title. George I are not married so there are two different names on the title. Does anyone know what he needs to get the vehicle into Mexico and Belize without me? I assume a notarized statement of some kind? We would appreciate any information you can give us. Thanks! Sheryl - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Big-Brother : RFID
At the school in which I teach, all students and teachers have a RFID. Kinda cool, easy to tell when students are skipping out. Once I was relaxing for a few minutes on the porcelain thrown and got a knock at the door with a question from a student! Now as soon as I get in the door I swap the battery out for a very weak one ... drives 'em nuts ; ) For RFID, you might not need a Faraday cage - you might just microwave it for a while. Should disable it. (never tried it though). I am not sure that microwaving iPhone is a good idea in that sense :) That's the spirit! Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Brian Riordan riordan.br...@gmail.com wrote: From: Brian Riordan riordan.br...@gmail.com Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related To: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 6:03 PM Foil hat- I hear ya Joe! I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage to keep out Big Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as Big Stepdad) I'm gonna call it the Faraday Freedom Frock (working title). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage If you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call you, I believe there are cases comercially available to put your phone in to block any signals in or out, but then why carry phone? Personally, I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also sleaves available for blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the ones in the new passports). As for physically taking data storage devices and searching them: what a crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll have no problem disguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail. What a waste of government resources (surprise!). As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers who meekly gave up her right to privacy. But of course, after 4 years of school to teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty of people willing to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you do? If she kept her privacy she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the bills. OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to have her own place (at the time). It's just like the social security number: not to be used as identification. Try to get credit without one! I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options... -B On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing... I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue to use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy don't buy any portable electronic device. Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can be picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated this one yet... Time to get out my foil hat! Joe On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin, etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes. Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is associated with things much different than it once was. I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together. -Original Message- From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related Hm, Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints
Re: [Texascavers] Ediger's observation on failure to observe
There seems to be some sort of an inherent lack of understanding regarding the requirement to stake tents securely to the ground AS SOON AS they are erected--not 10 minutes or an hour later. ...especially when there was a nice breeze blowing. Remember that ships sailed across the ocean with a hundred people and substantially less square footage of sail than the tarps on one of our 10x20 tents. This is a no-brainer, folks. Who's not paying attention--raise you hands. A number of years ago several of us were camping near the top of Guadalupe peak. One person (not me) set up a brand new North Face dome tent and was standing back admiring it. A breeze came by and the next thing was the tent was sailing over the edge. Never found or saw it again ... OPS! - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Terlingua Sinkhole
The Terlingua Sinkhole was my first vertical cave in the early '70s and thus fond memories. I used to be able to go to the property and ask to drop in and the owner at the time always said Yes. I am also curious if said owner is still there? Alive? or someone else granting permission to drop that cool pit? I suppose I could call. I will also be in that area the end of July / first of August. Mike This was just posted to TAG-Net. Would anyone care to respond to Mike? -- Jim - Excerpted from TAG-Net Digest #5335, Monday 07/06/09 Terlingua Sinkhole By: Mike Wilburn (Chatsworth, Georgia) spe...@windstream.net I will be attending the ICS in Kerrville in a few days and spending a few days in Big Bend afterward. I know that there are a few TAG-net subscribers who have done a pit called Terlingua Sinkhole outside the national park. I am trying to find out about access to the pit such as who to ask about permission, where to rig, etc. If anybody can provide any advice it will be appreciated. I have the coordinates, I just need to know if it is possible to do the pit. Mike Wilburn NSS 15084 RL spe...@windstream.net - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] The Cavern
The Offer: To he, she, or it that first supplies me with a mailing address gets my copy. The Catch: Continue the offer when you are finished. Mike in Spring, TX - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The Cavern
Lyndon is the fastest on the reply button! It will be on the way in about an hour. The Offer: To he, she, or it that first supplies me with a mailing address gets my copy. The Catch: Continue the offer when you are finished. Mike in Spring, TX - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Figure-8 not proper for caving?
... and don't forget about declination and right ascension .. So there should be no twist issues at the equator? Or do you rig it to have a forward or front exit at that latitude?... So many nuances to this issue! :) On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Geary Schindelgschin...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote: That's correct, To counteract the spin, some folks have found that if you rig the figure 8 for a left exit from the device in the northern hemisphere, the twist imparted in the rope is neutralized by the Coriolis effect and you won't spin when ascending the rope. :) LOL Geary -Original Message- From: Linda Palit [mailto:lkpa...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:36 AM To: Geary Schindel; 'Lyndon Tiu'; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Figure-8 not proper for caving? Figure 8's twist the rope. That is bearable for a 20 or 30 foot rope, but I ask people not to use figure 8's on my rope if the drop is longer. It just creates hassles in coiling and using the rope that seem unnecessary to me. I do have several, and they have uses, but not on long drops and seldom on drops on my rope -- Linda -Original Message- From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:23 AM To: Lyndon Tiu; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Figure-8 not proper for caving? Couple of comments on the Figure 8. They are suitable for caving as long as you are aware of and willing to put up with the limitations, much as any rappel device. Pros They have no moving parts and can't be easily rigged incorrectly. They are relatively cheap in comparison to other devices They are light They are compact They can be easy to drop if you don't know some of the rigging tricks, as you have to disconnect the device from the harness to attach to the rope. Some have ears (rescue 8's), which are bulkier, but all Figure 8's can be locked off. Commonly used in Youth Programs because they are hard to screw up, cheap, and simple to use Relatively durable on CLEAN ropes. They can be used with single or double ropes They will accept a wide range of rope sizes Generally, most folks like to limit their use to drops of less than 200 feet and I don't like to use them on drops over 100 feet. Depending upon the drop, you may have to feed rope with longer drops. They are a non-variable friction device is that the friction from the device can't be easily changed with a standard Figure 8. That is why some of the newer design variants such as the Piranha, which do allow you to easilt add or subtract friction, are becoming more popular. They may be slightly easier to learn on in the sense that you can't modify friction which is one less factor you have to teach for the first timer. Cons, Big folks may find them fast, They wear very quickly, as in one rappel, on a dirty rope (read rat tail file). If you use them on dirty ropes, you will have to replace them more often than rappel devices that allow you to change out the friction surfaces, so for cavers, they may not be economical They twist the rope, which can make ascending nauseating from the spin in the rope. It is a misconception that repeated use of a Figure 8 may damage the rope. There are more rappels done with a Figure 8 than any other device and probably all devices combined. There has never been a rope failure caused by a Figure 8. However, barfing on the rope probably isn't good for it. There is a risk of dropping the device during changeovers. Regarding Bill's comment that it may be necessary to obtain more friction by rapping the rope around the hips, this is not generally recommended for a couple of reasons. For example, if the user is right handed, rigged in this fashion, the rope exits the rappel device on the left side of the person, passes behind the back (hips) of the rappeller, then reaches the right brake hand, this can present a couple of problems. If the rappeller let's go of the rope with their right hand, the rope will fall to the back of the rappeller, they will not be able to gain control of the rope and will be unable to arrest or control the rappel. They will probably not be able to recover the rope. Second, the rope will usually find an indication to ride in around the hips. This is usually caused by the webbing so you will now have a moving piece of nylon (the rope) running against a standing piece of nylon (the harness), which may create severe abrasion and possibly failure. If you need more friction, use a different device. There are ways to modify the friction on the device using either a double rap or another carabineer, but they
[Texascavers] More Cave adventure books
Check out the author James Rollins. I have read several of his books. He mentions in his bio that he is a spelunker. www.jamesrollins.com This webpage is a bit of a pain to look at. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cave Book
Since we have had movie reports, how about a book report ... Fiction: Shibumi by Trevanian, pseudonym for Rodney Whitaker This book contains a great cave adventure/chase sequence. Add this read to your summer 'round toit. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Comfort ready to go batty with critters sea sonal emergence
I have been there and seen both several times. That attraction is on my agenda every time I am in the area, it is well worth the trip. The park has a very nice nature walk and its possible to photograph the tunnel entrance from the walk way. There are always very knowledgeable park personal there too. I didn't know the history about those bat houses. Joe, Thanks for posting that. Mike Visitors to Comfort are going batty and the seasonal emergence of more than 3 million Mexican free-tailed bats and a historic bat roost are the main attraction. Now owned by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, the Old Tunnel Wildlife Management Area, 13 miles north of Comfort, is home to the bats. The abandoned railroad tunnel was built in 1913, and it has been home to the bats since 1942. From May to October, visitors come to watch the bats emerge from the tunnel each night, usually within an hour before or after sunset. Most bats exit through the south end of the tunnel, spiraling in a counter-clockwise direction to gain altitude over nearby trees. They travel southeast toward the Guadalupe River. Bats exiting from the north end of the tunnel either travel north toward the Pedernales River or south over the Old Tunnels observation deck. * Red-tailed hawks are sometimes seen feeding on the bats as they emerge. The bats return to the tunnel between midnight and daybreak, having traveled an average to 25 to 30 miles to forage. Comfort also is home to one of the states most unusual historical landmarks - a bat roost. Years ago, the roosts were built in an attempt to control malaria by encouraging the areas large bat population to remain in the region and eat disease-spreading mosquitoes. Then San Antonio mayor Albert Steves built the hygieostatic (which means standing for health) bat roost in 1918 on family property in Comfort. It was built according to plans developed by Dr. Charles A.R. Campbell, physician and former health officer of San Antonio. Though it is located on private land about a mile and a half out of town on FM 473, visitors can see the roost from the road. The 30-foot high tower is on concrete piers and covered with shingles. Only 16 roosts are reported to have been built in the U.S. and Italy between 1907 and 1929. The Comfort bat roost is apparently the last survivor of seven roosts built in Texas and is the oldest of three known to exist in the entire country. It is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. For visitors interested in bat viewing, Comfort also offers many great places for visitors to roost, from historic bed and breakfasts to Victorian-era mansions and country cabins. For more information on the bat attractions and lodging, visit www.comfortchamberofcommerce.com or call 830-995-3131. For bat emergence times, contact the Old Tunnel Wildlife Management Area, phone 1-866-978-2287. http://www.boernestar.com/articles/2009/06/02/news/comfort/doc4a243458 7e7de308604598.txt - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Honeycreek trip May 8-10
He saw it and is still screaming! Y! SNAAAKE! Why are you screaming? Joe On May 1, 2009 10:30am, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: KEEP A LOOKOUT FOR WESTERN DIAMONDBACKS IN THIS AREA. ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO AT TCR I SAW A THREE FOOTER CROSS THE STRAIGHT DIRT ROAD A LITTLE BEFORE IT SLOPED OFF TOWARD THE SPRING. OF COURSE, THEY CAN BE ANYWHERE IN CENTRAL TEXAS. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
Contact Meg Goodwin with the TPWD. She is the Texas Bat Biologist. Even in here Houston there are several known bat roosts that are monitored regularly by volunteers including me and some of my students. There are two roosts within 3 miles of my home and school. There is also an educational program contained in a hugh foot locker available to schools. Something fun is sit around with a bat detector. This one I use with an external speaker added to it. http://home.netcom.com/~t-rex/BatDetector.html I tell my neighbors it is an Alien Detector. Let the fun begin. Later, ~F~ Even in Texas I can't tell you how many bats of what species we have in our caves, because NO ONE IS DOING THAT RESEARCH. Even for the big, popular freetail caves that obviously contribute to our environmental well- being as well as our economic health, we only have a rough idea of numbers and no clue about whether those populations are stable, declining, or (unlikely) increasing. Given the relatively high number of cavers in Texas and the relatively low numbers of publicly accessible caves, wouldn't it be possible to put some of those cavers to use as volunteers for bat monitoring? I'd love to do this kind of volunteer work, but I don't know who to contact in the bat research field. Maybe someone at BCI would know? Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: Texas bats
Thanks Jim, too bad, she is a great person. I have an alternative person to contact for the lastest info. I'll get on that. Later, ~F~ Meg has not worked for TPWD for about 2 years now. From: wa5...@peoplepc.com [mailto:wa5...@peoplepc.com] Sent: Fri 3/6/2009 6:06 PM To: TSA Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats Contact Meg Goodwin with the TPWD. She is the Texas Bat Biologist. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The East--West--Texas--East--The West
Ah shoot, I'll make it all real simple. If it ain't in Houston, then its a suburb of Houston ... ; ) ... anybody got another Shinner? Later, ~F~ At 10:37 AM 2/24/2009, Minton, Mark wrote: I thought West Texas was everything west of the Pecos and east Texas was everything east with the exception of Houston which is considered no-mans land. You left out Central Texas, where the center of the caving universe is! As a trained, professional geographer (which qualifies me, along with 6-bits worth of money, to ride on most any city bus) I have an opinion or two on that. But first: Terms like East Texas, West Texas, Southwest Texas, and North Central Texas define some nebulous and often dynamic regions oriented to generalized compass directions. These terms are often interspersed by both geographers and non-geographers in trying to define geographic regions with somewhat less nebulous terms such as High Plains and Coastal Bend. You can see that the two sets of terms are not comparable. We should use either directional terms (which with a state shaped like Texas is a bit of a stretch) or we should use topographical terms (which are more descriptive of what's really there). Or we could just color in the voting precincts and refer to them as red or blue or yellow regions of the State. Based on humidity, vegetation, and other factors, it can be considered that the eastward limits of West Texas can sometimes reach as far as Kerrville--but not always. It swings back and forth a good bit along with the related meteorlogical phenomenon known as a 'dry line' and shares, from time-to-time, parts of what is called The Hill Country with Central Texas. (Recall that The Hill Country and West Texas are not in parallel competition with each other, so can share territory.) To the west it extends nearly to Tucson, although some of our caver associates (non-geographers) claim it stops at Midland--the rest to the west being a nominal part of either Mexico or New Mexico--I can't remember which. The question always arises in my mind as to how far north West Texas extends. Does it include the Pan Handle? Or is that North Texas? It is generally conceded, I think, that Dallas and Forth Wort, and those menial towns up near the Red River represent North Texas while the Pan Handle, which is farther north, does not. 'Splain that if you can. If you pointed your compass in the direction of the Pan Handle it would render north west, yet I don't think that term is commonly applied to it. But, maybe? Neither does North Texas extend eastward into East Texas which is at the same latitude and, again, I think, considered to be that great humid area of black gumbo mud and tall mixed forest that extends west pretty much as a continuation of Louisiana about as far west as the trees do. The fact that The Great Plains also begin at that spot is not a factor of compass direction but vegetation (and perhaps soil type) and otherwise unrelated. Now I guess that there's a little area up there north of the gumbo but still in the trees that's called Northeast Texas by some on account of not wanting to leave out any of the cardinal directions and winding up with a hole in the map. Being close to Arkansas there's a lot of confusion rampant thereabouts. And East Texas extends south a bit lower than Houston, encroaching well into the lower latitudes, but not the terrain, of Central Texas South Texas is pretty much everything south of an east-west line running through some arbitrary part of San Antonio--say the Balcones Escarpment. North of that is Central Texas and, coincidentally, The Hill Country (all 3 always capitalized). Now, where South Texas and West Texas delineate themselves could be hard to put ones foot or finger on--even were one to have large hands and feet. It's out there somewhere in what we might oughta rightly call Southwest Texas, but can't really define that either without a few stout drinks. (One thing is certain--the college formerly called Southwest Texas State(SWTSTC) was nowhere near that part of the State.) That leaves only the Coastal Plain, nominally running from Brownsville to Port O'Connor (as they say in the hurricane weather warnings), to be given a direction--obviously Southeast Texas, as that direction is otherwise unasigned and probably more correctly occupied by the Gulf of Mexico which can't be renamed. But it overlaps both South Texas and East Texas at its extremes, both of which exhibit some (sometimes significant, sometimes not) climatic differences. Now, there you have it; if you have questions please keep them to yourself. ...and excuse my broken spell checker, por favor. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
Re: [Texascavers] The East--West--Texas--East--The West
A, that dur n key is stickenn agai now I have another keyboard ... ain't my fault Shiner - a Texas medicinal fermented carbohydrate beverage BTW ... H town is still anenxing land, I think the city limits are getten' close to NYC and SD ... WTF is a Shinner!? On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:19 PM, wa5...@peoplepc.com wrote: Ah shoot, I'll make it all real simple. If it ain't in Houston, then its a suburb of Houston ... ; ) ... anybody got another Shinner? Later, ~F~ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Fw: Spelunking contact for Conroe
Hi Bill, I can do that, I am about 30 minutes South of Conroe in Spring, TX. I'll see if I can scare up an antique slide projector. I just signed up to this list a few days ago. Mike WA5POK - Original Message - From: BSA Troop 472 To: webmas...@caver.net Cc: David Van De Walle Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Spelunking contact for Conroe I have some Boy Scouts interested in climbing and I want them to know about cave climbing. Can you give me any leads for someone that might give us a 20-30 minutes presentation about caving? Yours in Scouting, David Van De Walle BSA Troop 472 Conroe, TX 936-499-4626 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
