[Texascavers] Cavern?
At 08:10 AM 2/10/2009, wwildch...@aol.com wrote: While on the thru-trip I believe it was one of the ASS cavers that asked me what the difference was between a cave and a cavern. In my mind, since I was but 5 or 6 and first visited Carlsbad--maybe sooner, I have always associated a cave as being a cave--any enterable subterranian passage, and all of it--every bit, the whole thing, all passages and associated features with no restrictions other than the cave's natural limits--a single entity with multiple rooms, passages, et cetera. While at the same time a cavern is but a smaller portion of the entire cave--a subset of it, an associated lesser part or parcel of the entire cave--such as the southwest cavern(s) of the main cave or, perhaps, a large room as in a cavern that dwarfs any other room in the cave. The term cavern(s) was more-or-less specific to a large passage or room or group of rooms or passages that make up the greater cave. I'll reiterate that that's only my personal interpretation of 'um. In common parlance--in the vernacular--that is not necessarily the way the terms are used. Cave seems to be interpretted as just a generic term for an enterable, underground passage of no particularly exceptional discreption or expanse. Cavern--or even more specifically, caverns--carries some inborn mystery and suspense and grandeur about it in the minds of the mere mortals who even bother to think about such things. So, it seems that a large number of commercial caves take on the Cavern sobriquet in order to draw in the general public. Cavers, on the other hand, seldom use the term Cavern when naming caves. It seems a little uppity to us. Notice that it is Carlsbad Cavern (singular), not Caverns, but Longhorn Caverns, suggesting that there's but one of the former and more than one of the latter or, perhaps, that a cavern or caverns is a conglomeration of multiple caves in their minds. I'm not sure that Joe the Plumber makes any such distinction. My ideas are, of course, all in my own head--as are everyone else's in their's--and don't mean much outside of that rhelm. I would suggest, though, that for all practical purposes the terms Cave and Cavern are pretty damned much interchangable insofar as technical and philosophical differences or similarities are concerned. It is, of course, a great opportunity, when some newby asks, to make up a lie of some sort in order to exercise your own creativity, test the gullability of the newby, and cause your credibility to be circumspect. With important matters like the difference between cave and cavern it's sometimes good to leave people a little bit confused. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Cavern?
According to the ics2009 website: http://www.ics2009.us/ A Cavern is worth between $5K and $15K and is composed of the following: Texas Parks and Wildlife Edwards Aquifer Authority HEB (Here Everything's Better. TM) ESRI SWRI TCMA Shiner Beers US Fish and Wildlife Service It doesn't say though what a Cave is. I'm just full of it! -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Cavern?
Shiner Beer? -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:28 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cavern? According to the ics2009 website: http://www.ics2009.us/ A Cavern is worth between $5K and $15K and is composed of the following: Texas Parks and Wildlife Edwards Aquifer Authority HEB (Here Everything's Better. TM) ESRI SWRI TCMA Shiner Beers US Fish and Wildlife Service It doesn't say though what a Cave is. I'm just full of it! -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Cavern?
Of course! It's 100 years old in the year of the ICS. - Pete On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Fritz Holt wrote: Shiner Beer? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Cavern?
Yes, Shiner Beer. The Spotzel Brewery is donating product to the International Congress of Speleology at a level commensurate with the CAVERN level of sponsorship. You too may help your fellow international cavers attend by a generous donation. Ron Ralph, Chair Fundraising Committee -Original Message- From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:29 AM To: Lyndon Tiu; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Cavern? Shiner Beer? -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:28 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cavern? According to the ics2009 website: http://www.ics2009.us/ A Cavern is worth between $5K and $15K and is composed of the following: Texas Parks and Wildlife Edwards Aquifer Authority HEB (Here Everything's Better. TM) ESRI SWRI TCMA Shiner Beers US Fish and Wildlife Service It doesn't say though what a Cave is. I'm just full of it! -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Cavern?
A worthy Texas sponsor. Most cavers appreciate a good beer. Fritz -Original Message- From: Ron Ralph [mailto:ronra...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:21 AM To: Fritz Holt; 'Lyndon Tiu'; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: 'George Veni' Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Cavern? Yes, Shiner Beer. The Spotzel Brewery is donating product to the International Congress of Speleology at a level commensurate with the CAVERN level of sponsorship. You too may help your fellow international cavers attend by a generous donation. Ron Ralph, Chair Fundraising Committee -Original Message- From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:29 AM To: Lyndon Tiu; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Cavern? Shiner Beer? -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:28 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cavern? According to the ics2009 website: http://www.ics2009.us/ A Cavern is worth between $5K and $15K and is composed of the following: Texas Parks and Wildlife Edwards Aquifer Authority HEB (Here Everything's Better. TM) ESRI SWRI TCMA Shiner Beers US Fish and Wildlife Service It doesn't say though what a Cave is. I'm just full of it! -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Cavern?
Most appropriate. I wish them a prosperous second hundred years. Fritz -Original Message- From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:caverp...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:17 AM To: Texascavers Cc: Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cavern? Of course! It's 100 years old in the year of the ICS. - Pete On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Fritz Holt wrote: Shiner Beer? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Cavern?
Yes, Shiner Beer and many others are sponsoring the ICS. It will not only be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to see the state-of-the-art in cave and karst exploration, science, techniques, etc., it will also be an incredible party with the caving world coming to your backyard. If you haven't registered yet, do! If you have, have you registered for the trips? Remember, nothing will be happening on campus on Wednesday of the ICS. Everyone will heading off on trips. Don't be left behind twiddling your Petzls. There are 20 great trips to join on Wednesday, plus 21 trips that run before and after the ICS. All of the details, including on-line registration, are available at www.ics2009.us And while the big buck and big name sponsors are great, so are all of the caver supporters of the ICS who are working hard to make it happen. Lyndon is one such supporter, as is everyone else who helped dig open the back entrance to Longhorn. I wish I could have been with them because it looks like they had a great time doing it. That's the whole idea of the daily ICS caving trips (these are different from the special trips which will be held just on Wednesday). Travis Scott and Joe Mitchell are organizing those daily trips and Longhorn is one of them. They're looking for more people to help lead the trips. Consider spending some days during the ICS going caving! OK, you'll be leading a bunch of cavers from around the world, but what a fantastic time and opportunity! I've no doubt that a lot of cavers will show up at the ICS ready to help, but for caving trips we need to reserve vans, budget for gas, make advance plans with cave owners, etc., we really need you to step up early and offer to help out. We won't be able to offer trips unless we know in advance that we have people to lead them. And the more people who help, the less work (if you want to call leading a caving trip work!) it will be for everyone. You can reach Travis at tra...@oztotl.com and Joe at joemitch...@satx.rr.com If you're interested in helping in other specific or general ways with the ICS, contact Nancy Weaver at nan...@io.com Lastly, on 11-12 July, the weekend before the ICS begins, there will be a trip to Kerrville to begin setting up the campgrounds. We'll set up security fencing, showers, mark the campground roads, etc. More information will be coming, but if you're available and interested, mark your calendars now. Thanks, George 15th ICS Chairman and Shameless Promoter -Original Message- From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:29 AM To: Lyndon Tiu; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Cavern? Shiner Beer? -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:28 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cavern? According to the ics2009 website: http://www.ics2009.us/ A Cavern is worth between $5K and $15K and is composed of the following: Texas Parks and Wildlife Edwards Aquifer Authority HEB (Here Everything's Better. TM) ESRI SWRI TCMA Shiner Beers US Fish and Wildlife Service It doesn't say though what a Cave is. I'm just full of it! -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cavern restaurants
At 12:47 PM 11/28/2008, Minton, Mark wrote: Jerry Atkinson posted: Pretty much any underground chamber qualifies as a cave. And they say the only restaurants in caverns are in the Carribean. There used to be--and I see no reason why there shouldn't still be--a restaurant in a LARGE lava cavity just outside the archeo site at Teotihuacan (is that spelled right?). There were skylights which let in a good bit of light (in addition to the electrical artificial lighting) and the thing was natually cooled. Service and food were both good enough when I was there many years ago. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cavern restaurant @ CaCa
At 01:26 PM 11/28/2008, Randy Baker wrote: I was at Carlsbad Caverns in October 2008, and the underground restaurant was closed. You could buy bottled drinks/water, and pre-packaged sandwiches, but that was it. My first trip there was in 1953 or '54 as a first or second grader. It could only minimally be termed a restaurant--more like a cafeteria at a picnic. I remember very well standing in line--with some sorta pipe rails keeping us tourists under control--for the quite generic looking white boxes of prepackaged lunches, courtesy of Cavern Supply. The whole meal was pretty much a box lunch deal, more noted for the novelty of the event than the quality of the food. I think there was fried chicken in addition to white bread sandwiches. Tours were still led by a ranger in those days but the light show and playing of religious music during the stop at Rock of Ages (which my own dear mother had extolled in platitudes of in rampant antipation) had been some years earlier dispensed with (which met with great wailing and lamentation by my same dear mother). I still have a distinct visual image of the light and sound show I never saw. Thirty or so years later whilst making our way to a white water rafting trip in Idaho a truck full of us stopped in at CaCa to indoctrinate some newbees. We bought our tickets, did a hit of acid, and toured the cave, enjoying a whole new perspective than the '50s trip. The Rock of Ages show was amplified for me. The lunch room was not an issue at the time. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cavern restaurants of the Caribbean :
Interesting article with photos: http://travel.spotcoolstuff.com/unusual-restaurant/cavern-mexico-santo-domingo
[Texascavers] Cavern owner seeks bidder to cave in to eBay sale
See article at: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-odd/20081104/ODD.Caves.For.Sale/ Lee Skinner - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
