RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
Mark, Good points and it shows that even a very experienced caver can sometimes make a mistake and mistakes can be very costly. Dirk was on the team that performed the world record rappel off of Mt. Thor in Baffin Island (4,000+ feet) and I would bet has done numerous multi-drop pull down trips in the TAG area. Looks like he just plane screwed up. Just that one second slip up is all it takes. Couple of general comments to be made that may or may not related to the incident. Always check and understand your rigging, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with the type of rigging used in the type of caving you're doing. Make sure you know the proper use and limitations of your equipment and techniques. Keep an eye on everyone else's equipment and techniques. You may learn something and you might prevent a disaster. I've spent my entire caving and climbing career evaluating every person's equipment and rigging and asking the questions Why did they do it that way and What if component X failed. You will learn a lot. Find a good mentor (or mentors) and learn all you can. I've been doing this for 40 years and I'm still learning things. It is OK to walk away from a vertical cave for whatever reason, be it personal health, physical fitness, equipment problems, comfort level with other cavers, or just a bad feeling. It is a lot easier to walk away than to create an incident or a rescue. No self respecting caver, at least the one's you want to cave with, will question that. Caving is a challenge by choice sport. You don't have to do the drop today as it will be there tomorrow. Reminds me of the primary directive for motorcycle riding - never ride any faster than you're willing to jump off and when you're no longer scared of it, time to put it down. I had to throw that in there Take a cave rescue and wilderness first aid course. I'm sure that other folks out there may have some additional recommendations that have served them well over the years. Geary - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
Mark, Good points and it shows that even a very experienced caver can sometimes make a mistake and mistakes can be very costly. Dirk was on the team that performed the world record rappel off of Mt. Thor in Baffin Island (4,000+ feet) and I would bet has done numerous multi-drop pull down trips in the TAG area. Looks like he just plane screwed up. Just that one second slip up is all it takes. Couple of general comments to be made that may or may not related to the incident. Always check and understand your rigging, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with the type of rigging used in the type of caving you're doing. Make sure you know the proper use and limitations of your equipment and techniques. Keep an eye on everyone else's equipment and techniques. You may learn something and you might prevent a disaster. I've spent my entire caving and climbing career evaluating every person's equipment and rigging and asking the questions Why did they do it that way and What if component X failed. You will learn a lot. Find a good mentor (or mentors) and learn all you can. I've been doing this for 40 years and I'm still learning things. It is OK to walk away from a vertical cave for whatever reason, be it personal health, physical fitness, equipment problems, comfort level with other cavers, or just a bad feeling. It is a lot easier to walk away than to create an incident or a rescue. No self respecting caver, at least the one's you want to cave with, will question that. Caving is a challenge by choice sport. You don't have to do the drop today as it will be there tomorrow. Reminds me of the primary directive for motorcycle riding - never ride any faster than you're willing to jump off and when you're no longer scared of it, time to put it down. I had to throw that in there Take a cave rescue and wilderness first aid course. I'm sure that other folks out there may have some additional recommendations that have served them well over the years. Geary - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
Mark, Good points and it shows that even a very experienced caver can sometimes make a mistake and mistakes can be very costly. Dirk was on the team that performed the world record rappel off of Mt. Thor in Baffin Island (4,000+ feet) and I would bet has done numerous multi-drop pull down trips in the TAG area. Looks like he just plane screwed up. Just that one second slip up is all it takes. Couple of general comments to be made that may or may not related to the incident. Always check and understand your rigging, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with the type of rigging used in the type of caving you're doing. Make sure you know the proper use and limitations of your equipment and techniques. Keep an eye on everyone else's equipment and techniques. You may learn something and you might prevent a disaster. I've spent my entire caving and climbing career evaluating every person's equipment and rigging and asking the questions Why did they do it that way and What if component X failed. You will learn a lot. Find a good mentor (or mentors) and learn all you can. I've been doing this for 40 years and I'm still learning things. It is OK to walk away from a vertical cave for whatever reason, be it personal health, physical fitness, equipment problems, comfort level with other cavers, or just a bad feeling. It is a lot easier to walk away than to create an incident or a rescue. No self respecting caver, at least the one's you want to cave with, will question that. Caving is a challenge by choice sport. You don't have to do the drop today as it will be there tomorrow. Reminds me of the primary directive for motorcycle riding - never ride any faster than you're willing to jump off and when you're no longer scared of it, time to put it down. I had to throw that in there Take a cave rescue and wilderness first aid course. I'm sure that other folks out there may have some additional recommendations that have served them well over the years. Geary - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
It has been suggested that the accident happened because they had rigged the pull-down with a stopper knot and the guy rigged into the wrong side of the knot. In that case it wouldn't have mattered whether or not there was a knot at the end of the short side (if there was a short side), because his weight would have pulled down the rope, same as if he rigged onto the wrong side if it were tried off at the bottom on one side. Only if he rappelled with both ropes in his rack would that not be an issue, but you can't do that with a Micro Rack or a bobbin. Mark Minton At 10:52 PM 5/30/2011, Geary Schindel wrote: Mark, I just heard they got him out of the cave. Not sure of the cause of the accident but Sinking Cove Cave is a classic multi-drop pull down trip. Mostly short drops with a nice exit into a truck passage in the bottom of the cave. The Boulder entrance is the one that he entered and includes a 30 foot entrance down climb, a 50 foot rappel, another 53 foot rappel, a 30 foot down climb, a 20 foot rappel and another 20 foot rappel to about 100 feet of stream crawl that is pretty tight. It appears that the accident happened at the last 20 foot drop. Gerald Moni got stuck in the crawl below the last 20 foot drop a couple of years ago and had to be hammered out. I think it would be very difficult to bring someone though this area in a stretcher. Taking someone in a sked up the drops and through some tight crawls would also be very difficult. Then you have to carry them down the mountain. I'm sure this was no easy rescue but the cave rescue teams in the TAG area are the best and most experienced in the US. I understand the guy who was injured was on the Mt. Thor rappels and has a lot of experience. It will probably take a couple of days to hear the details. Geary Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
It has been suggested that the accident happened because they had rigged the pull-down with a stopper knot and the guy rigged into the wrong side of the knot. In that case it wouldn't have mattered whether or not there was a knot at the end of the short side (if there was a short side), because his weight would have pulled down the rope, same as if he rigged onto the wrong side if it were tried off at the bottom on one side. Only if he rappelled with both ropes in his rack would that not be an issue, but you can't do that with a Micro Rack or a bobbin. Mark Minton At 10:52 PM 5/30/2011, Geary Schindel wrote: Mark, I just heard they got him out of the cave. Not sure of the cause of the accident but Sinking Cove Cave is a classic multi-drop pull down trip. Mostly short drops with a nice exit into a truck passage in the bottom of the cave. The Boulder entrance is the one that he entered and includes a 30 foot entrance down climb, a 50 foot rappel, another 53 foot rappel, a 30 foot down climb, a 20 foot rappel and another 20 foot rappel to about 100 feet of stream crawl that is pretty tight. It appears that the accident happened at the last 20 foot drop. Gerald Moni got stuck in the crawl below the last 20 foot drop a couple of years ago and had to be hammered out. I think it would be very difficult to bring someone though this area in a stretcher. Taking someone in a sked up the drops and through some tight crawls would also be very difficult. Then you have to carry them down the mountain. I'm sure this was no easy rescue but the cave rescue teams in the TAG area are the best and most experienced in the US. I understand the guy who was injured was on the Mt. Thor rappels and has a lot of experience. It will probably take a couple of days to hear the details. Geary Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
It has been suggested that the accident happened because they had rigged the pull-down with a stopper knot and the guy rigged into the wrong side of the knot. In that case it wouldn't have mattered whether or not there was a knot at the end of the short side (if there was a short side), because his weight would have pulled down the rope, same as if he rigged onto the wrong side if it were tried off at the bottom on one side. Only if he rappelled with both ropes in his rack would that not be an issue, but you can't do that with a Micro Rack or a bobbin. Mark Minton At 10:52 PM 5/30/2011, Geary Schindel wrote: Mark, I just heard they got him out of the cave. Not sure of the cause of the accident but Sinking Cove Cave is a classic multi-drop pull down trip. Mostly short drops with a nice exit into a truck passage in the bottom of the cave. The Boulder entrance is the one that he entered and includes a 30 foot entrance down climb, a 50 foot rappel, another 53 foot rappel, a 30 foot down climb, a 20 foot rappel and another 20 foot rappel to about 100 feet of stream crawl that is pretty tight. It appears that the accident happened at the last 20 foot drop. Gerald Moni got stuck in the crawl below the last 20 foot drop a couple of years ago and had to be hammered out. I think it would be very difficult to bring someone though this area in a stretcher. Taking someone in a sked up the drops and through some tight crawls would also be very difficult. Then you have to carry them down the mountain. I'm sure this was no easy rescue but the cave rescue teams in the TAG area are the best and most experienced in the US. I understand the guy who was injured was on the Mt. Thor rappels and has a lot of experience. It will probably take a couple of days to hear the details. Geary Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours.
Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
I can't believe this keeps happening! There have been several accidents of this nature. Why in the world wouldn't an experienced caver have put a knot at the bottom of a rope that is too short and that could potentially be confused for the correct one? And why wasn't he looking where he was going? I always look down to see what's below as I rappel, and I don't rappel so fast that I couldn't stop if there were a problem, like the end of the rope coming at me. I hope the rescue is successful and that people take note to prevent this sort of preventable accident in the future. Mark Minton At 07:17 PM 5/30/2011, speleoste...@aol.com wrote: There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
Mark, I just heard they got him out of the cave. Not sure of the cause of the accident but Sinking Cove Cave is a classic multi-drop pull down trip. Mostly short drops with a nice exit into a truck passage in the bottom of the cave. The Boulder entrance is the one that he entered and includes a 30 foot entrance down climb, a 50 foot rappel, another 53 foot rappel, a 30 foot down climb, a 20 foot rappel and another 20 foot rappel to about 100 feet of stream crawl that is pretty tight. It appears that the accident happened at the last 20 foot drop. Gerald Moni got stuck in the crawl below the last 20 foot drop a couple of years ago and had to be hammered out. I think it would be very difficult to bring someone though this area in a stretcher. Taking someone in a sked up the drops and through some tight crawls would also be very difficult. Then you have to carry them down the mountain. I'm sure this was no easy rescue but the cave rescue teams in the TAG area are the best and most experienced in the US. I understand the guy who was injured was on the Mt. Thor rappels and has a lot of experience. It will probably take a couple of days to hear the details. Geary - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
I don't know the details of what happened in the recent accident in Tennessee, but I can second what Mark said about the importance of looking down frequently and rappelling slowly enough so you can stop on short notice if necessary. This is good advice even when you think you are sure that every rope rigged in the vicinity is long enough to reach the bottom.Back when I was a caver in Colorado, before moving to Austin, there was a seriousrappellingaccident that came very close to being twice as bad, by seriously injuring, or perhaps even killing, a second caver. On the way down, one experienced caver accidently cut his rappel rope, resulting in a long fall with serious injuries to himself. (Yes, cutting his rope was another one on those preventable mistakes you don't normally expect from an experienced caver.) At the top, another, somewhat less experienced, caver had been waiting his turn to rappel and was in a location where he couldn't see what had just happened below. When he saw the rope go slack, he assumed that the first caver was safely off rope at the bottom. There hadn't been any "off rope" voice signal, of course, but the caver above probably thought that the wind and weather conditions were simply too noisy for the signal to be heard, so he rigged in and began rappelling, with no thought to the possibility that the rope might no longer reach bottom. Fortunately, he did look down and was able to stop before rappelling off the end, but it was a very close call. I understand that he stopped only about a foot or two above where the rope had been cut, and he had to be helped back to the top by other cavers, since he didn't have ascending gear accessible to switch over by himself. Yes, indeed, sometimes it does pay to look where you are going!Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton Sent: May 30, 2011 8:49 PMTo: Texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave I can't believe this keeps happening! There have been several accidents of this nature. Why in the world wouldn't an experienced caver have put a knot at the bottom of a rope that is too short and that could potentially be confused for the correct one? And why wasn't he looking where he was going? I always look down to see what's below as I rappel, and I don't rappel so fast that I couldn't stop if there were a problem, like the end of the rope coming at me. I hope the rescue is successful and that people take note to prevent this sort of preventable accident in the future.Mark MintonAt 07:17 PM 5/30/2011, speleoste...@aol.com wrote:There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours.Please reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours.
Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
I can't believe this keeps happening! There have been several accidents of this nature. Why in the world wouldn't an experienced caver have put a knot at the bottom of a rope that is too short and that could potentially be confused for the correct one? And why wasn't he looking where he was going? I always look down to see what's below as I rappel, and I don't rappel so fast that I couldn't stop if there were a problem, like the end of the rope coming at me. I hope the rescue is successful and that people take note to prevent this sort of preventable accident in the future. Mark Minton At 07:17 PM 5/30/2011, speleoste...@aol.com wrote: There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
Mark, I just heard they got him out of the cave. Not sure of the cause of the accident but Sinking Cove Cave is a classic multi-drop pull down trip. Mostly short drops with a nice exit into a truck passage in the bottom of the cave. The Boulder entrance is the one that he entered and includes a 30 foot entrance down climb, a 50 foot rappel, another 53 foot rappel, a 30 foot down climb, a 20 foot rappel and another 20 foot rappel to about 100 feet of stream crawl that is pretty tight. It appears that the accident happened at the last 20 foot drop. Gerald Moni got stuck in the crawl below the last 20 foot drop a couple of years ago and had to be hammered out. I think it would be very difficult to bring someone though this area in a stretcher. Taking someone in a sked up the drops and through some tight crawls would also be very difficult. Then you have to carry them down the mountain. I'm sure this was no easy rescue but the cave rescue teams in the TAG area are the best and most experienced in the US. I understand the guy who was injured was on the Mt. Thor rappels and has a lot of experience. It will probably take a couple of days to hear the details. Geary - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
I don't know the details of what happened in the recent accident in Tennessee, but I can second what Mark said about the importance of looking down frequently and rappelling slowly enough so you can stop on short notice if necessary. This is good advice even when you think you are sure that every rope rigged in the vicinity is long enough to reach the bottom.Back when I was a caver in Colorado, before moving to Austin, there was a seriousrappellingaccident that came very close to being twice as bad, by seriously injuring, or perhaps even killing, a second caver. On the way down, one experienced caver accidently cut his rappel rope, resulting in a long fall with serious injuries to himself. (Yes, cutting his rope was another one on those preventable mistakes you don't normally expect from an experienced caver.) At the top, another, somewhat less experienced, caver had been waiting his turn to rappel and was in a location where he couldn't see what had just happened below. When he saw the rope go slack, he assumed that the first caver was safely off rope at the bottom. There hadn't been any "off rope" voice signal, of course, but the caver above probably thought that the wind and weather conditions were simply too noisy for the signal to be heard, so he rigged in and began rappelling, with no thought to the possibility that the rope might no longer reach bottom. Fortunately, he did look down and was able to stop before rappelling off the end, but it was a very close call. I understand that he stopped only about a foot or two above where the rope had been cut, and he had to be helped back to the top by other cavers, since he didn't have ascending gear accessible to switch over by himself. Yes, indeed, sometimes it does pay to look where you are going!Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton Sent: May 30, 2011 8:49 PMTo: Texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave I can't believe this keeps happening! There have been several accidents of this nature. Why in the world wouldn't an experienced caver have put a knot at the bottom of a rope that is too short and that could potentially be confused for the correct one? And why wasn't he looking where he was going? I always look down to see what's below as I rappel, and I don't rappel so fast that I couldn't stop if there were a problem, like the end of the rope coming at me. I hope the rescue is successful and that people take note to prevent this sort of preventable accident in the future.Mark MintonAt 07:17 PM 5/30/2011, speleoste...@aol.com wrote:There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours.Please reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours.
Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
I can't believe this keeps happening! There have been several accidents of this nature. Why in the world wouldn't an experienced caver have put a knot at the bottom of a rope that is too short and that could potentially be confused for the correct one? And why wasn't he looking where he was going? I always look down to see what's below as I rappel, and I don't rappel so fast that I couldn't stop if there were a problem, like the end of the rope coming at me. I hope the rescue is successful and that people take note to prevent this sort of preventable accident in the future. Mark Minton At 07:17 PM 5/30/2011, speleoste...@aol.com wrote: There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
Mark, I just heard they got him out of the cave. Not sure of the cause of the accident but Sinking Cove Cave is a classic multi-drop pull down trip. Mostly short drops with a nice exit into a truck passage in the bottom of the cave. The Boulder entrance is the one that he entered and includes a 30 foot entrance down climb, a 50 foot rappel, another 53 foot rappel, a 30 foot down climb, a 20 foot rappel and another 20 foot rappel to about 100 feet of stream crawl that is pretty tight. It appears that the accident happened at the last 20 foot drop. Gerald Moni got stuck in the crawl below the last 20 foot drop a couple of years ago and had to be hammered out. I think it would be very difficult to bring someone though this area in a stretcher. Taking someone in a sked up the drops and through some tight crawls would also be very difficult. Then you have to carry them down the mountain. I'm sure this was no easy rescue but the cave rescue teams in the TAG area are the best and most experienced in the US. I understand the guy who was injured was on the Mt. Thor rappels and has a lot of experience. It will probably take a couple of days to hear the details. Geary - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave
I don't know the details of what happened in the recent accident in Tennessee, but I can second what Mark said about the importance of looking down frequently and rappelling slowly enough so you can stop on short notice if necessary. This is good advice even when you think you are sure that every rope rigged in the vicinity is long enough to reach the bottom.Back when I was a caver in Colorado, before moving to Austin, there was a seriousrappellingaccident that came very close to being twice as bad, by seriously injuring, or perhaps even killing, a second caver. On the way down, one experienced caver accidently cut his rappel rope, resulting in a long fall with serious injuries to himself. (Yes, cutting his rope was another one on those preventable mistakes you don't normally expect from an experienced caver.) At the top, another, somewhat less experienced, caver had been waiting his turn to rappel and was in a location where he couldn't see what had just happened below. When he saw the rope go slack, he assumed that the first caver was safely off rope at the bottom. There hadn't been any "off rope" voice signal, of course, but the caver above probably thought that the wind and weather conditions were simply too noisy for the signal to be heard, so he rigged in and began rappelling, with no thought to the possibility that the rope might no longer reach bottom. Fortunately, he did look down and was able to stop before rappelling off the end, but it was a very close call. I understand that he stopped only about a foot or two above where the rope had been cut, and he had to be helped back to the top by other cavers, since he didn't have ascending gear accessible to switch over by himself. Yes, indeed, sometimes it does pay to look where you are going!Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton Sent: May 30, 2011 8:49 PMTo: Texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] Deep cave rescue happening now in eastern Tennessee multi-drop cave I can't believe this keeps happening! There have been several accidents of this nature. Why in the world wouldn't an experienced caver have put a knot at the bottom of a rope that is too short and that could potentially be confused for the correct one? And why wasn't he looking where he was going? I always look down to see what's below as I rappel, and I don't rappel so fast that I couldn't stop if there were a problem, like the end of the rope coming at me. I hope the rescue is successful and that people take note to prevent this sort of preventable accident in the future.Mark MintonAt 07:17 PM 5/30/2011, speleoste...@aol.com wrote:There's a big cave rescue going on in eastern Tennessee right now. I know the victim - Dirk Siron. It's Sinking Cove Cave. Forty rescuers are in the cave.What I've been told is that Dirk was doing a pull down rappel and got on the wrong rope, falling off the end of it. It appears he's got at least a broken pelvis. A friend of mine is on the scene and texting me. He's at the bottom of the second drop now, and the estimate is they'll have him out in three more hours.Please reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
