Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 5:14 PM, wrote: > Please take me off cave tex...thanks >
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
Please take me off cave tex...thanks Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:39:32 To: Mark Alman Cc: Rod Goke; TexasCavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data No matter what type of archive you use, be it tape, external drive, online storage, offline internal drives or cd/DVD, it's imperative to have redundancy and test your backups routinely. Any large company does this. Also, never store both copies in the same location. A house fire is terrible, but you wouldn't want to lose both copies at once. I'm in the process of setting up a mirrored raid setup over a VPN, and while my offsite storage isn't ideal for a true disaster due to distance, I feel I'm reasonably protected. You ideally want 50 miles separation for disaster recovery site and I'm at about 15 Anyway, you can easily mix and match media, copy on an external drive and also on an internal. Or external and DVD A backup is only as good as your last tested restore. Nothing is worse than trying to restore some lost data and your backup drive fails, or the cd isn't readable. It's important to test your backups routinely. Charles On Dec 19, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Mark Alman wrote: > Because they crash, too, Rod. > > I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is > lost now. > > > Mark > > From: Rod Goke > To: TexasCavers > Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data > > Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard > disk drives instead? >
RE: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
It's good to know about this service in case you ever need it and can afford it, but you can buy a lot of external drives for multiple backups at less cost than one data recovery operation of this type.Rod-Original Message- From: Louise Power Sent: Dec 19, 2009 2:50 PM To: Mark Alman , rod.g...@ieee.org, Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Depending on how much your data is worth to you, I can personally recommend http://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com/ In 2006, my hard drive at work crashed taking all my data with it. Our IT guy pulled the disk and sent it to Drive Savers Data Recovery. Their estimate was between $428-1985. It came in around $1400-1700. But it was worth it. We got back four DVDs within a week with all my data on it. Check out their site. They can retrieve almost anything. For those of you who are Federal Employees, they have a GSA contract. Louise List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:28:47 -0800From: texascav...@yahoo.comTo: rod.g...@ieee.org; texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Because they crash, too, Rod. I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is lost now. Mark From: Rod Goke To: TexasCavers Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AMSubject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard disk drives instead? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
That's why it's good to buy extra external hard drives and make multiple copies. It doesn't have to be very expensive. I recently bought a used 100GB external USB drive for $20 and a used 200GB external Firewire/USB drive for $40. Both of these were purchased from individuals on Craigslist, appeared to be in excellent physical condition and have functioned properly in the testing I have done. Several months ago, I bought several used 20GB internal drives for $5 each from the Goodwill Computer Store (ComputerWorks) and found that they also tested good. For new, larger capacity drives, you frequently can find good buys by watching the weekly sales at Fry's Electronics (http://www.frys-electronics-ads.com/). For, example, about a week ago you could have bought either a 320GB external USB drive or a 500GB internal SATA drive for about $50.Rod-Original Message- From: Mark Alman Sent: Dec 19, 2009 9:28 AM To: Rod Goke , TexasCavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Because they crash, too, Rod. I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is lost now. Mark From: Rod Goke To: TexasCavers Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AMSubject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard disk drives instead? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
I'd be happy to help out. Web updates are easy, anything else I need to be aware of? Charles On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 10:48 AM, wrote: > Charles, > > Would you be interested in being on the NSS Nominating Committee? I'm the > chairman. I need someone Web savvy to update the Web Site now and then. > Ellie can get access for you. > > Hope so. > > Bill > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > > From: Charles Goldsmith > Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:39:32 -0600 > To: Mark Alman > Cc: Rod Goke; TexasCavers > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data > No matter what type of archive you use, be it tape, external drive, online > storage, offline internal drives or cd/DVD, it's imperative to have > redundancy and test your backups routinely. Any large company does this. > Also, never store both copies in the same location. A house fire is > terrible, but you wouldn't want to lose both copies at once. > I'm in the process of setting up a mirrored raid setup over a VPN, and while > my offsite storage isn't ideal for a true disaster due to distance, I feel > I'm reasonably protected. You ideally want 50 miles separation for disaster > recovery site and I'm at about 15 > Anyway, you can easily mix and match media, copy on an external drive and > also on an internal. Or external and DVD > A backup is only as good as your last tested restore. Nothing is worse than > trying to restore some lost data and your backup drive fails, or the cd > isn't readable. It's important to test your backups routinely. > Charles > > > > On Dec 19, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Mark Alman wrote: > > Because they crash, too, Rod. > > I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is lost > now. > > > Mark > > > From: Rod Goke > To: TexasCavers > Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data > > Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard disk > drives instead? >
RE: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
Depending on how much your data is worth to you, I can personally recommend http://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com/ In 2006, my hard drive at work crashed taking all my data with it. Our IT guy pulled the disk and sent it to Drive Savers Data Recovery. Their estimate was between $428-1985. It came in around $1400-1700. But it was worth it. We got back four DVDs within a week with all my data on it. Check out their site. They can retrieve almost anything. For those of you who are Federal Employees, they have a GSA contract. Louise List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:28:47 -0800 From: texascav...@yahoo.com To: rod.g...@ieee.org; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Because they crash, too, Rod. I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is lost now. Mark From: Rod Goke To: TexasCavers Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard disk drives instead?
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
Charles, Would you be interested in being on the NSS Nominating Committee? I'm the chairman. I need someone Web savvy to update the Web Site now and then. Ellie can get access for you. Hope so. Bill Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:39:32 To: Mark Alman Cc: Rod Goke; TexasCavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data No matter what type of archive you use, be it tape, external drive, online storage, offline internal drives or cd/DVD, it's imperative to have redundancy and test your backups routinely. Any large company does this. Also, never store both copies in the same location. A house fire is terrible, but you wouldn't want to lose both copies at once. I'm in the process of setting up a mirrored raid setup over a VPN, and while my offsite storage isn't ideal for a true disaster due to distance, I feel I'm reasonably protected. You ideally want 50 miles separation for disaster recovery site and I'm at about 15 Anyway, you can easily mix and match media, copy on an external drive and also on an internal. Or external and DVD A backup is only as good as your last tested restore. Nothing is worse than trying to restore some lost data and your backup drive fails, or the cd isn't readable. It's important to test your backups routinely. Charles On Dec 19, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Mark Alman wrote: > Because they crash, too, Rod. > > I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is > lost now. > > > Mark > > From: Rod Goke > To: TexasCavers > Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data > > Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard > disk drives instead? >
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
No matter what type of archive you use, be it tape, external drive, online storage, offline internal drives or cd/DVD, it's imperative to have redundancy and test your backups routinely. Any large company does this. Also, never store both copies in the same location. A house fire is terrible, but you wouldn't want to lose both copies at once. I'm in the process of setting up a mirrored raid setup over a VPN, and while my offsite storage isn't ideal for a true disaster due to distance, I feel I'm reasonably protected. You ideally want 50 miles separation for disaster recovery site and I'm at about 15 Anyway, you can easily mix and match media, copy on an external drive and also on an internal. Or external and DVD A backup is only as good as your last tested restore. Nothing is worse than trying to restore some lost data and your backup drive fails, or the cd isn't readable. It's important to test your backups routinely. Charles On Dec 19, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Mark Alman wrote: Because they crash, too, Rod. I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is lost now. Mark From: Rod Goke To: TexasCavers Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard disk drives instead?
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
Because they crash, too, Rod. I have a $150 100GB ext. HD paperweight with a bunch of data that is lost now. Mark From: Rod Goke To: TexasCavers Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:23:31 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard disk drives instead?
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
On Dec 18, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Robert Tait wrote: I use a service, that back up my hard drive over the internet. The one I use is http://mozy.com/, but there are several out there. Costs me less than $100 to have a frequently updated image of my laptop hard drive (automatic, transparent, and encrypted). If you can afford it, this is a good short-term hedge against disaster, for mission-critical files. I am not going to trust (long term) a for-profit business with archiving my files. What if they don't turn a profit and shut down one day? I spread sever CDs of Austin cave trips around back in 2000, I have no clue how they were stored, or if they still work. My hard drive has to get bigger every couple of years. The rate at which hard drive storage is expanding vs. cost, I've found that my data isn't doubling at quite the prevailing rate for hard drives, so I've been able to move to the next affordable size up in hard drives without it being a headache since I first seriously started storing data on computers, in about 2001. I think the progression at home has been 20GB> 60GB> 120GB> 250GB> 500GB. All for around $100.00-$150.00 each time. (wait until the size you need isn't the biggest & best -- there's always a sweet-spot just below huge that's affordable Compare 2TB to 1TB disks in price, right now) As to backing up -- I have two internal drives. 1 is system & software only. The other is data only. The point to that being a nuke & pave of the system drive does not have to be accompanied by the gnashing of teeth over data. I have 2 external drives in the house, which are mirrors (backed up daily & weekly) of the two internal drives. This is a hedge against drive failure, only. I also back up all RAW files from the camera to DVD, as well as some other mission-critical data, like .AIF files from 24-track studio recordings, that were expensive. Lastly, I have removable drives that I occasionally back all this up to (every couple months, when I remember, or when there's a huge project that needs backing up) that live off site. If my house burns down/is burgled, I hope that these drives don't fail simultaneously. :-) I have some data CD's that are approaching the 10-year mark now, so I'll be curious to dig them out & see how they're doing, at some point on a slow day. I certainly don't trust them as a sole source for critical files. PS.. I wonder if one day, people will start backing up digital images on Kodachrome, for archival storage... never mind. *pours 40* *snif* Chris
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
Why archive data on CDs or DVDs at all? Why not use external hard disk drives instead? They're getting cheaper in dollars/gigabyte all the time, and one drive can store the equivalent of a large collection of CDs and DVDs. It's easy to copy the entire content from one external drive to another, so you can easily back up your entire archival data collection and store separate copies in separate safe locations if you get 2 or more drives for this purpose. Similarly, whenever your archival drives become old enough that you suspect they might become too obsolete or unreliable, you can copy your archived data to a newer external hard drive much more quickly and easily that you can copy a large collection of CDs or DVDs. If you want to minimize cost and your data collection isn't large enough to require the storage capacity of a new state-of-the-art disk drive, then consider buying some smaller capacity used drives from Craigslist or the Goodwill Computer Store (ComputerWorks). Also, if you want to use multiple external disk drives (e.g., for storing multiple copies in different locations or for archiving different kinds of data on separate disks) and if you intend to store some of these drives a long time before you expect to access them, then you probably can save money by buying multiple "internal" disk drives (as opposed to "external" drives) plus one or two external drive enclosures. You then mount each internal drive in an external enclosure just long enough to copy data to it, and then you remove the drive from the enclosure and pack it safely away for long term storage. This is practical primarily for long term archiving of data you don't expect to update or otherwise access any time soon. Similarly, it's a good way to archive a "cloned" copy of the original internal disk content of a new computer before you begin doing anything to modify it (in case you ever need to restore the computer's internal disk to its original state, and your "restore" CDs/DVDs no longer work). Sometimes lower capacity used internal disk drives suitable for this purpose can be purchased very cheaply.Rod - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
I use a service, that back up my hard drive over the internet. The one I use is http://mozy.com/, but there are several out there. Costs me less than $100 to have a frequently updated image of my laptop hard drive (automatic, transparent, and encrypted). I would not call this archival, per se, but it's useful to have. ALL of my digital images going back to the shots I started taking in '98 are on my laptop. I spread sever CDs of Austin cave trips around back in 2000, I have no clue how they were stored, or if they still work. My hard drive has to get bigger every couple of years. Now that I am shooting video, there simply is not room on my laptop hard drive, so I have installed a 1 Tb raid array in the basement of my ex wifes house that is connected to the internet. The array has dual mirrored hard drives, if one fails, we have redundant backup. A mirror of THAT drive is located at my Son's house. As the drives start to fail, we simply replace them. It's not as cheap as CDs, but as drive technology changes, and drive interfaces change we can leapfrog with the technology. I can also give people read only access to specific directories. Again, throwing money at a problem helps. Not foolproof. A virus could wipe out my raid arrays, poor data management could corrupt the data. But it's worked so far... :) My, two cents from upstate New York Cheers y'all Rob PS.. I wonder if one day, people will start backing up digital images on Kodachrome, for archival storage... never mind.
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
A few years ago I visited the American Mountaineering Club in Golden, CO. Spent some time in the archival library. Climate, humidity and fire control are very important for long term preservation of our important work. There is indeed an art and science to archives, and the librarian there would be glad to discuss this with anyone. I took lots of notes hopefully of use in planning CRF's new library at Hamilton Valley. I think the librarian had a masters degree in archiving material. Preston - Original Message - From: John P Brooks To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data I have kept paper copies of the Texas Caver around for over 30
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
I have kept paper copies of the Texas Caver around for over 30 yearsthere hasn't been any degradation, other folded corners or slight yellowing of the paperand I haven't had to make new copies every 10 years or so..and unlike digital copies which may, by the admissions below, not be around in 30 years...I suspect my boxes of Texas Cavers will out live me. --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Glen Goldsmith wrote: From: Glen Goldsmith Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data To: texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 10:41 AM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R#Expected_lifespan In short, Mixon is right - you'll have to copy the contents of a CD-R/DVD-R pretty often. More so than 20 years though. I've read an article, can't remember where - that said a CD-R that could last 10 years was pretty good. Organizing cd/dvd's by age seems like a good idea for this. Who's got the time for that though? In the process of moving, I was able to get data off of CD-R's (single speed, gold backed) as late as 1996. Silver backed single speed CD-RW's written around this time were completely unreadable, causing me to lose some data from that era. Just don't be fooled that they'll last 20 or 30 years. In my personal experience, they don't. Glen On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Mark Minton wrote: > David Locklear said: > >>I think the next hurdle is to develop a laptop that doesn't use batteries, >> and uses a crank and some kind of power saving device not affected by >> storage. > > Why not make your computer solar powered? I don't know the expected > lifetime of solar panels, but ones stored dry and in the dark might last a > long time. Take them and your archived computer out into the sun and let > 'er rip. Presumably there will still be sunshine, unless the future is a > Matrix sort of world. ;-) Actually, electricity will still likely be used > and available in some form for a long time. Just provide a simple set of > terminals on your computer and any power source of the future with the > proper voltage and amperage should work. The bigger problem would be > communicating anything 500 years into the future. What language would you > use? > > Bill Mixon said: > >>Anyway, there wouldn't be any convenient way to get the data out of the >> computer, even if you could read it on screen. > > It seems likely that some sort of scanning technology will be around > for quite a while. Assuming the language on the screen could be understood, > it shouldn't be too much trouble to scan it, or take the equivalent of > movies of it, and then convert that into whatever the current digital format > is. Again the bigger problem would be making the archived output > meaningful. Pictures might be better than anything written. > > Mark > > You may reply to mmin...@caver.net > Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
My cd's were in a cd case, with about 100 others. It stayed zipped up in my about 98% of the time. That's a good article, I read it then but then, haven't ordered any. On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Louise Power wrote: > Clover, > > Has she said anything about the gold archival CDs and DVDs? There's an > interesting article on choosing archival media (written in 06, but with > updates) at > > > http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media > > Louise > > -- > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:34:44 -0700 > From: cclam...@swca.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data > > > My sister in-law is an archival librarian with the State library in > Austin. She was just railing on CDs & DVDs and how "archivally poor" they > are for permanent data storage, even when kept in the most pristine "air & > light tight" conditions in an archival library. > > She and the state library still swear by microfiche and other silver coated > films for permanent archival data storage. > > Ah technology at its finest! > > Clover Clamons > cclam...@swca.com > > > ------ > *From:* John Greer [mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com] > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 11:27 AM > *To:* Texas Cavers > *Subject:* Fw: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data > > For those interested, we burned data onto a "permanent" DVD for a friend > a year ago. They left it open in the office under florescent lights. It is > now defunct. Apparently everybody but us knew that florescent lights destroy > CD/DVDs. > > John > > > - Original Message - > *From:* Glen Goldsmith > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 9:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R#Expected_lifespan > > In short, Mixon is right - you'll have to copy the contents of a CD-R/DVD-R > pretty often. More so than 20 years though. I've read an article, can't > remember where - that said a CD-R that could last 10 years was pretty good. > Organizing cd/dvd's by age seems like a good idea for this. Who's got the > time for that though? > > In the process of moving, I was able to get data off of CD-R's (single > speed, gold backed) as late as 1996. Silver backed single speed CD-RW's > written around this time were completely unreadable, causing me to lose some > data from that era. > > Just don't be fooled that they'll last 20 or 30 years. In my personal > experience, they don't. > > Glen >
RE: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
Clover, Has she said anything about the gold archival CDs and DVDs? There's an interesting article on choosing archival media (written in 06, but with updates) at http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media Louise List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:34:44 -0700 From: cclam...@swca.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data My sister in-law is an archival librarian with the State library in Austin. She was just railing on CDs & DVDs and how "archivally poor" they are for permanent data storage, even when kept in the most pristine "air & light tight" conditions in an archival library. She and the state library still swear by microfiche and other silver coated films for permanent archival data storage. Ah technology at its finest! Clover Clamons cclam...@swca.com From: John Greer [mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com] Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 11:27 AM To: Texas Cavers Subject: Fw: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data For those interested, we burned data onto a "permanent" DVD for a friend a year ago. They left it open in the office under florescent lights. It is now defunct. Apparently everybody but us knew that florescent lights destroy CD/DVDs. John - Original Message - From: Glen Goldsmith To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R#Expected_lifespan In short, Mixon is right - you'll have to copy the contents of a CD-R/DVD-R pretty often. More so than 20 years though. I've read an article, can't remember where - that said a CD-R that could last 10 years was pretty good. Organizing cd/dvd's by age seems like a good idea for this. Who's got the time for that though? In the process of moving, I was able to get data off of CD-R's (single speed, gold backed) as late as 1996. Silver backed single speed CD-RW's written around this time were completely unreadable, causing me to lose some data from that era. Just don't be fooled that they'll last 20 or 30 years. In my personal experience, they don't. Glen
RE: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
My sister in-law is an archival librarian with the State library in Austin. She was just railing on CDs & DVDs and how "archivally poor" they are for permanent data storage, even when kept in the most pristine "air & light tight" conditions in an archival library. She and the state library still swear by microfiche and other silver coated films for permanent archival data storage. Ah technology at its finest! Clover Clamons cclam...@swca.com From: John Greer [mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com] Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 11:27 AM To: Texas Cavers Subject: Fw: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data For those interested, we burned data onto a "permanent" DVD for a friend a year ago. They left it open in the office under florescent lights. It is now defunct. Apparently everybody but us knew that florescent lights destroy CD/DVDs. John - Original Message - From: Glen Goldsmith <mailto:glen.goldsm...@gmail.com> To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R#Expected_lifespan In short, Mixon is right - you'll have to copy the contents of a CD-R/DVD-R pretty often. More so than 20 years though. I've read an article, can't remember where - that said a CD-R that could last 10 years was pretty good. Organizing cd/dvd's by age seems like a good idea for this. Who's got the time for that though? In the process of moving, I was able to get data off of CD-R's (single speed, gold backed) as late as 1996. Silver backed single speed CD-RW's written around this time were completely unreadable, causing me to lose some data from that era. Just don't be fooled that they'll last 20 or 30 years. In my personal experience, they don't. Glen
Fw: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
For those interested, we burned data onto a "permanent" DVD for a friend a year ago. They left it open in the office under florescent lights. It is now defunct. Apparently everybody but us knew that florescent lights destroy CD/DVDs. John - Original Message - From: Glen Goldsmith To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R#Expected_lifespan In short, Mixon is right - you'll have to copy the contents of a CD-R/DVD-R pretty often. More so than 20 years though. I've read an article, can't remember where - that said a CD-R that could last 10 years was pretty good. Organizing cd/dvd's by age seems like a good idea for this. Who's got the time for that though? In the process of moving, I was able to get data off of CD-R's (single speed, gold backed) as late as 1996. Silver backed single speed CD-RW's written around this time were completely unreadable, causing me to lose some data from that era. Just don't be fooled that they'll last 20 or 30 years. In my personal experience, they don't. Glen
Re: [Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R#Expected_lifespan In short, Mixon is right - you'll have to copy the contents of a CD-R/DVD-R pretty often. More so than 20 years though. I've read an article, can't remember where - that said a CD-R that could last 10 years was pretty good. Organizing cd/dvd's by age seems like a good idea for this. Who's got the time for that though? In the process of moving, I was able to get data off of CD-R's (single speed, gold backed) as late as 1996. Silver backed single speed CD-RW's written around this time were completely unreadable, causing me to lose some data from that era. Just don't be fooled that they'll last 20 or 30 years. In my personal experience, they don't. Glen On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Mark Minton wrote: >David Locklear said: > >>I think the next hurdle is to develop a laptop that doesn't use batteries, >> and uses a crank and some kind of power saving device not affected by >> storage. > >Why not make your computer solar powered? I don't know the expected > lifetime of solar panels, but ones stored dry and in the dark might last a > long time. Take them and your archived computer out into the sun and let > 'er rip. Presumably there will still be sunshine, unless the future is a > Matrix sort of world. ;-) Actually, electricity will still likely be used > and available in some form for a long time. Just provide a simple set of > terminals on your computer and any power source of the future with the > proper voltage and amperage should work. The bigger problem would be > communicating anything 500 years into the future. What language would you > use? > >Bill Mixon said: > >>Anyway, there wouldn't be any convenient way to get the data out of the >> computer, even if you could read it on screen. > >It seems likely that some sort of scanning technology will be around > for quite a while. Assuming the language on the screen could be understood, > it shouldn't be too much trouble to scan it, or take the equivalent of > movies of it, and then convert that into whatever the current digital format > is. Again the bigger problem would be making the archived output > meaningful. Pictures might be better than anything written. > > Mark > > You may reply to mmin...@caver.net > Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
[Texascavers] Re: archiving your cave data
David Locklear said: >I think the next hurdle is to develop a laptop that doesn't use batteries, and uses a crank and some kind of power saving device not affected by storage. Why not make your computer solar powered? I don't know the expected lifetime of solar panels, but ones stored dry and in the dark might last a long time. Take them and your archived computer out into the sun and let 'er rip. Presumably there will still be sunshine, unless the future is a Matrix sort of world. ;-) Actually, electricity will still likely be used and available in some form for a long time. Just provide a simple set of terminals on your computer and any power source of the future with the proper voltage and amperage should work. The bigger problem would be communicating anything 500 years into the future. What language would you use? Bill Mixon said: >Anyway, there wouldn't be any convenient way to get the data out of the computer, even if you could read it on screen. It seems likely that some sort of scanning technology will be around for quite a while. Assuming the language on the screen could be understood, it shouldn't be too much trouble to scan it, or take the equivalent of movies of it, and then convert that into whatever the current digital format is. Again the bigger problem would be making the archived output meaningful. Pictures might be better than anything written. Mark You may reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
