Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
The rock haul is not a CRF trip--it's the PBSS annual which was suspended while the new visitor's center was being built and now we're on for the 2nd weekend in November (the 10th)? We generally arrive Fri. pm, stay at one of the research huts, work all day Saturday, leave Sun. Jacq. - Original Message - From: "Charles Goldsmith" To: "Diana Tomchick" Cc: "J. LaRue Thomas" ; "Bill Bentley" ; "Bill Steele" Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws Yes, I'm still heading to Sonora this weekend. Is the rock haul at CCNP the same that Barbe Barker is recruiting for with the CRF? I'm supposed to be on her list for the Thanksgiving event. Either way, I'm interested :) Charles On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Diana Tomchick wrote: Jacqui,
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
No the rock haul is not associated with CRF... It is a PBSS project... Bill - Original Message - From: "Charles Goldsmith" To: "Diana Tomchick" Cc: "J. LaRue Thomas" ; "Bill Bentley" ; "Bill Steele" Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws Yes, I'm still heading to Sonora this weekend. Is the rock haul at CCNP the same that Barbe Barker is recruiting for with the CRF? I'm supposed to be on her list for the Thanksgiving event. Either way, I'm interested :) Charles On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Diana Tomchick wrote: Jacqui, I have a prior engagement this weekend, but I think that Charles Goldsmith planned to come to the dig. The DFW grotto is still interested in attending the PBSS Carlsbad Rock Haul in November and helping y'all out--I'm hoping that Bill Bentley will respond to this message and let us know the details. Steele and I plan to be at TCR, hope you will be there too. Diana On Oct 6, 2009, at 7:51 AM, J. LaRue Thomas wrote: Subject change--were you considering coming down this weekend and helping us to dig out more cave? We are assembling quite the group and should have as many buckets of fun as we have buckets of tailings. Jacqui * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax)
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
Yes, I'm still heading to Sonora this weekend. Is the rock haul at CCNP the same that Barbe Barker is recruiting for with the CRF? I'm supposed to be on her list for the Thanksgiving event. Either way, I'm interested :) Charles On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Diana Tomchick wrote: > Jacqui, > > I have a prior engagement this weekend, but I think that Charles Goldsmith > planned to come to the dig. > > The DFW grotto is still interested in attending the PBSS Carlsbad Rock Haul > in November and helping y'all out--I'm hoping that Bill Bentley will respond > to this message and let us know the details. > > Steele and I plan to be at TCR, hope you will be there too. > > Diana > > On Oct 6, 2009, at 7:51 AM, J. LaRue Thomas wrote: > >> >> Subject change--were you considering coming down this weekend and helping >> us to dig out more cave? We are assembling quite the group and should have >> as many buckets of fun as we have buckets of tailings. Jacqui >> > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Diana R. Tomchick > Associate Professor > University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center > Department of Biochemistry > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > Rm. ND10.214B > Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. > Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu > 214-645-6383 (phone) > 214-645-6353 (fax) > >
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
Jacqui, I have a prior engagement this weekend, but I think that Charles Goldsmith planned to come to the dig. The DFW grotto is still interested in attending the PBSS Carlsbad Rock Haul in November and helping y'all out--I'm hoping that Bill Bentley will respond to this message and let us know the details. Steele and I plan to be at TCR, hope you will be there too. Diana On Oct 6, 2009, at 7:51 AM, J. LaRue Thomas wrote: Subject change--were you considering coming down this weekend and helping us to dig out more cave? We are assembling quite the group and should have as many buckets of fun as we have buckets of tailings. Jacqui * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax)
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
Diana, I am in general agreement with you about the destructive practices society indulged in early in my lifetime. ?I had the benefit of riding in a car with seatbelts several years earlier than most children because my father was a civilian employee of the Air Force, and it instituted (and installed) an all-seatbelts rule in the early 1960s, with the consequence that our car had aircraft lap belts! ? But here is a troubling reflection of over-protection from today's Sigma Xi Science News: School Lab Health and Safety Rules 'Could Stop Future Scientists' from the?Times?(London) It is a scientific fact, tested and proven by generations of pupils, that experiments in school laboratories win young people to the cause of science. White coats, goggles and the chance to set fire to things foster a passion for chemistry that even years of examinations do not extinguish. But government advisers and eminent scientists are warning of a disturbing development that could endanger generations of future scientists: pupils are no longer allowed to experiment. Health and safety concerns are preventing students--including those taking A levels--from performing vital and exciting investigations into what happens when one sets fire to magnesium ribbon, or drops a small glob of sodium into a dish of water. http://snipr.com/sc4xr Roger Moore Greater Houston Grotto -Original Message- From: Diana Tomchick To: cavera...@aol.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Mon, Oct 5, 2009 10:15 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws I am reminded of my mother's purchase of a Dodge passenger van in 1965. She had 6 children and needed a vehicle large enough for all 8 people plus it needed to do double duty hauling sacks of feed and farm equipment. Back then seat belts were standard equipment only for the front two seats. The guys at the dealership complained mightily when she insisted that he install seat belts for ALL the seats in the van, as they had never been required to do this by a customer. My mother told them that by forcing us to wear the seat belts, it limited the amount of fighting we could do with each other (we could only reach our nearest neighbors), and thereby limited the amount of distractions she had while driving.? ? The real reason was that she subscribed to Consumer Reports and was aware of the dangers of not wearing safety restraints in an accident, but she knew that if she mentioned that they would have laughed at her.? ? Every time I watch the TV show "Mad Men" I am reminded of how much our attitudes have changed about smoking, drinking, drinking and driving, etc., and I do not long for the "good old days" at all.? ? Diana? ? On Oct 2, 2009, at 2:35 PM, cavera...@aol.com wrote:? ? > I bought an old cargo van from my cousin years ago, and I didn't > like the > fact that it only had two captain's seats. I found another > seat with > seatbelts at a junkyard, and had it installed for not much > money.? >? > Roger Moore? >? >?
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I am reminded of my mother's purchase of a Dodge passenger van in 1965. She had 6 children and needed a vehicle large enough for all 8 people plus it needed to do double duty hauling sacks of feed and farm equipment. Back then seat belts were standard equipment only for the front two seats. The guys at the dealership complained mightily when she insisted that he install seat belts for ALL the seats in the van, as they had never been required to do this by a customer. My mother told them that by forcing us to wear the seat belts, it limited the amount of fighting we could do with each other (we could only reach our nearest neighbors), and thereby limited the amount of distractions she had while driving. The real reason was that she subscribed to Consumer Reports and was aware of the dangers of not wearing safety restraints in an accident, but she knew that if she mentioned that they would have laughed at her. Every time I watch the TV show "Mad Men" I am reminded of how much our attitudes have changed about smoking, drinking, drinking and driving, etc., and I do not long for the "good old days" at all. Diana On Oct 2, 2009, at 2:35 PM, cavera...@aol.com wrote: I bought an old cargo van from my cousin years ago, and I didn't like the fact that it only had two captain's seats. I found another seat with seatbelts at a junkyard, and had it installed for not much money. Roger Moore -Original Message- From: wwildch...@aol.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:25 pm Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws I think all the occupants on the Powerwagon Bus have to be strapped in. ( Unless there are 16 cavers on board ).Feel free to correct me on that. Unless you remove the seatbelts behind the front seats. :-7 The law is specific in that it is only an offense "Provided the vehicle is equiped with a safety belt". And per Section 547.601 which outlines what "equiped with a seatbelt" means: § 547.601. SAFETY BELTS REQUIRED. A motor vehicle required by Chapter 548 to be inspected shall be equipped with front safety belts if safety belt anchorages were part of the manufacturer's original equipment on the vehicle. There is * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I bought an old cargo van from my cousin years ago, and I didn't like the fact that it only had two captain's seats. I found another seat with seatbelts at a junkyard, and had it installed for not much money. Roger Moore -Original Message- From: wwildch...@aol.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:25 pm Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws I think all the occupants on the Powerwagon Bus have to be strapped in. ( Unless there are 16 cavers on board ).Feel free to correct me on that. Unless you remove the seatbelts behind the front seats. :-7 The law is specific in that it is only an offense "Provided the vehicle is equiped with a safety belt". And per Section 547.601 which outlines what "equiped with a seatbelt" means: § 547.601. SAFETY BELTS REQUIRED. A motor vehicle required by Chapter 548 to be inspected shall be equipped with front safety belts if safety belt anchorages were part of the manufacturer's original equipment on the vehicle. There is
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I think all the occupants on the Powerwagon Bus have to be strapped in. Unless there are 16 cavers on board ).Feel free to correct me on that. Unless you remove the seatbelts behind the front seats. :-7 The law is specific in that it is only an offense "Provided the vehicle is equiped with a safety belt". And per Section 547.601 which outlines what "equiped with a seatbelt" means: § 547.601. SAFETY BELTS REQUIRED. A motor vehicle required by Chapter 548 to be inspected shall be equipped with front safety belts if safety belt anchorages were part of the manufacturer's original equipment on the vehicle. There is not a requirement for a vehicle to have rear seatbelts even if there are anchorages provided by the manufacturer. Doesn't mean you won't get sued and all of that when someone exits the vehicle through a window because there wasn't a seatbelt, but the law itself kind of makes a loophole. I found this when reserching for an art car I'm building. Puppy =:-) Sec. 545.413. Safety Belts; Offense. (a) A person commits an offense if: (1) the person: (A) is at least 15 years of age; (B) is riding in [the front seat of] a passenger vehicle while the vehicle is being operated; (C) is occupying a seat that is equipped with a safety belt; and (D) is not secured by a safety belt; or (2) as the operator of a school bus equipped with a safety20belt for the operator's seat, the person is not secured by the safety belt. (b) A person commits an offense if the person: (1) operates a passenger vehicle that is equipped with safety belts; and (2) allows a child who is younger than 17 years of age and who is not required to be secured in a child passenger safety seat system under Section 545.412(a) to ride in the vehicle without requiring the child to be secured by a safety belt, provided the child is occupying a seat that is equipped with a safety belt. (b-1) A person commits an offense if the person allows a child who is younger than 17 years of age and who is not required to be secured in a child passenger safety seat system under Section 545.412(a) to ride in a passenger van designed to transport 15 or fewer passengers, including the driver, without securing the child individually by a safety belt, if the child is occupying a seat that is equipped with a safety belt. (c) A passenger vehicle or a seat in a passenger vehicle is considered to be equipped with a safety belt if the vehicle is required under Section 547.601 to be equipped with safety belts. (d) An offense under Subsection (a) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than $25 or more than $50. An offense under Subsection (b) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than $100 or more than $200.
RE: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
In Oregon it would be a moot point. It's against the law (unless you're a dog) to ride in the bed of a pickup. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:28:29 -0500 From: gi...@att.net To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org CC: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws I think it would be a good idea to have all the new laws (even the old ones) posted by category on the internet so we could review them to see which ones we are breaking now. They are always making new laws about riding in the back of pickups and campers, wearing seat belts, etc. It could get to the point where I can't put 8 people in my roll-cage speleocamper to go caving or to the NSS convention like we used to. Seat belts are a good idea and my older camper used to have some, but what about those people sleeping in the back--do they need bed belts? --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
>> but what about those people sleeping in the back--do they need bed >> belts? << >You do on an airliner if you are able to secure three seats and try to >sleep. Or on Korean Air, if you get one of those first-class suites with the real bed and flat-screen TV. Alex - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
There's an article in a very recent Wall Street Journal that claims that a number of current laws are so vague that you are probably breaking at least three of them every day.. they may have been referring to financial laws, though. TSep 30, 2009 03:28:39 PM, gi...@att.net wrote: I think it would be a good idea to have all the new laws (even the old ones) posted by category on the internet so we could review them to see which ones we are breaking now. They are always making new laws about riding in the back of pickups and campers, wearing seat belts, etc. It could get to the point where I can't put 8 people in my roll-cage speleocamper to go caving or to the NSS convention like we used to. Seat belts are a good idea and my older camper used to have some, but what about those people sleeping in the back--do they need bed belts? --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
>> but what about those people sleeping in the back--do they need bed belts? << You do on an airliner if you are able to secure three seats and try to sleep. Bill Gill Edigar wrote: > I think it would be a good idea to have all the new laws (even the old ones) > posted by category on the internet so we could review them to see which ones > we are breaking now. They are always making new laws about riding in the > back of pickups and campers, wearing seat belts, etc. It could get to the > point where I can't put 8 people in my roll-cage speleocamper to go caving > or to the NSS convention like we used to. Seat belts are a good idea and my > older camper used to have some, but what about those people sleeping in the > back--do they need bed belts? > --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I think it would be a good idea to have all the new laws (even the old ones) posted by category on the internet so we could review them to see which ones we are breaking now. They are always making new laws about riding in the back of pickups and campers, wearing seat belts, etc. It could get to the point where I can't put 8 people in my roll-cage speleocamper to go caving or to the NSS convention like we used to. Seat belts are a good idea and my older camper used to have some, but what about those people sleeping in the back--do they need bed belts? --Ediger
RE: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I agree. I mentioned it for the people who would only take the class for the insurance discount. I would believe that the majority who take it do so to avoid having the violation go on their driving record. I also think that a deterrent to violating traffic laws is getting a citation. It always made me more observant but unfortunately, it wears off. Fritz (more careful with advancing age). From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:50 PM To: Fritz Holt; Ron Miller; David; Cavers Texas Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new Texas laws Actually, taking a defensive driving course, even if you're insurance company doesn't provide a discount, is not a bad idea. Matter of fact, I think you should take one very five years to renew your license. It might make a safer drive to the caves for everyone. G
RE: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
Actually, taking a defensive driving course, even if you're insurance company doesn't provide a discount, is not a bad idea. Matter of fact, I think you should take one very five years to renew your license. It might make a safer drive to the caves for everyone. G
RE: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
When a ticket is involved, taking the defensive driving course will avoid the fine and keep the offence off of your driving record but the "court costs" required by the authorities and the cost of the DD class almost equal the amount of the fine. It is worth it to keep your record clear. The course allows an auto insurance discount averaging about 8% annually for three years by some insurance companies but many are no longer allowing the discount. AARP sponsors the DD classes in many larger cities and you do not have to be an AARP member or old like me. The cost for non-members is only $14. and $12. for members. The class is eight hours if related to a ticket but only four hours if taken only for the insurance discount. Be sure that your insurance carrier allows a discount before the time and expense to to take the class. You may take the class to keep the violation off of your driving record if you have not taken the class in the previous twelve months. Fritz From: Ron Miller [mailto:rons...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:59 PM To: David; Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws Driving is very serious business in Texas today. I recently sat in on a criminal trial where an individual felt he could flee from a police officer trying to stop him. That is a felony. A DWI today is very costly and an offender is booked into jail on the first offense. Even medication can result in a DWI offense. A simple speeding ticket will cost you nearly $200 even if you do the defensive driving school. Ron From: David To: Cavers Texas Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:58:37 AM Subject: [Texascavers] new Texas laws I think it is important to note that cavers should never drive before or after their caving trips while under the influence of any medication or alcohol, or drugs. The penalty is severe if caught. If you are driving home tired from a caving trip, and the police catch you weaving, you better not have had any of the above. I would not be surprised if there are similar new laws in adjacent states. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers-h...@texascavers.com>
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I was on a minor 6 person trial where a man ( he drove a Mercedes) was contesting a traffic ticket. He was caught reading the newpaper (on the wrong side of the road at the time) while wandering all over the road and did not contest that part. He just said that he should not get a ticket or pay any fine. Took us 5 minutes but most of that was reading the charge again in the jury room and finding paper and pencil. Quinta Ron said: Driving is very serious business in Texas today. I recently sat in on a criminal trial where an individual felt he could flee from a police officer trying to stop him. That is a felony. A DWI today is very costly and an offender is booked into jail on the first offense. Even medication can result in a DWI offense. A simple speeding ticket will cost you nearly $200 even if you do the defensive driving school.
Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
Driving is very serious business in Texas today. I recently sat in on a criminal trial where an individual felt he could flee from a police officer trying to stop him. That is a felony. A DWI today is very costly and an offender is booked into jail on the first offense. Even medication can result in a DWI offense. A simple speeding ticket will cost you nearly $200 even if you do the defensive driving school. Ron From: David To: Cavers Texas Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:58:37 AM Subject: [Texascavers] new Texas laws I think it is important to note that cavers should never drive before or after their caving trips while under the influence of any medication or alcohol, or drugs. The penalty is severe if caught. If you are driving home tired from a caving trip, and the police catch you weaving, you better not have had any of the above. I would not be surprised if there are similar new laws in adjacent states. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] new Texas laws
Sure is quite out there. Has anybody noticed all the new laws that recently went into affect in Texas ? While none of the new laws specifically affect cavers, there are some new things that could affect us if we are not careful. I think all the occupants on the Powerwagon Bus have to be strapped in. ( Unless there are 16 cavers on board ).Feel free to correct me on that. I think there is a provision that allows 4 wheeled electric vehicles such as golf carts, to go up to 45 mph on roadways without having to register the vehicle. That sounds like a good idea where I live. I may have my translation mixed up.Should be a good deal for people selling golf carts to people that live in large subdivisions.Maybe there will be some cave that you can now legally get to by golf cart ? Ref: http://www.namic.org/stateLaws/09texas.asp I think it is important to note that cavers should never drive before or after their caving trips while under the influence of any medication or alcohol, or drugs. The penalty is severe if caught. If you are driving home tired from a caving trip, and the police catch you weaving, you better not have had any of the above. I would not be surprised if there are similar new laws in adjacent states. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
