RE: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners
The TSA does and/or you can view it electronically. We give you both options. Mark From: John P Brooks [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:58 PM To: Mixon Bill; Diana Tomchick Cc: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners " Many recreational cavers have no desire to attend grotto meetings, but getting a monthly caving publication in their mailbox is a good start towards educating even the rawest spelunker about current events in the caving world." Do any Caving organizations other than the NSS actually send out "Old School" newsletters or caving publications that arrive in our mailboxes?
Re: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners
The CRF still does... - Fofo On 04/03/11 15:58, John P Brooks wrote: Do any Caving organizations other than the NSS actually send out "Old School" newsletters or caving publications that arrive in our mailboxes? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners
" Many recreational cavers have no desire to attend grotto meetings, but getting a monthly caving publication in their mailbox is a good start towards educating even the rawest spelunker about current events in the caving world." Do any Caving organizations other than the NSS actually send out "Old School" newsletters or caving publications that arrive in our mailboxes?
Re: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners
Actually, in this day and age of WNS, all caves that shelter bats should really be considered to belong to the bats. All other uses of such caves are contingent upon not finding (or spreading) WNS to the occupants. These caves are "our" caves only in the sense that it is our responsibility to try to protect the resource for present and future generations of the cave critters. Our needs and wants regarding these caves are secondary considerations. Many recreational cavers (and spelunkers) still haven't heard about WNS, wouldn't know how to identify it if they saw infected bats, and the agencies can't know if such people could be trusted to notify the proper authorities if they DID find it. Hence the rash of cave closings by the NPS, USFS & BLM. The CRF has agreements in several regions of the country to perform survey and monitoring work in caves that are otherwise closed to the general public. When I say "survey and monitor" I mean not only traditional cave mapping but also inventory of cave life, speleotheothems and human impact. In some parts of the country the human impact factor can include graffiti and the nasty results of "pot hunting." Any cave that shows the slightest hint of bat die-offs or bats that might have fuzzy white noses are immediately vacated and the observations are reported to the appropriate agency contact. Diana P.S. Caver education is a really good reason to promote membership in the NSS, even above and beyond local grotto membership. Many recreational cavers have no desire to attend grotto meetings, but getting a monthly caving publication in their mailbox is a good start towards educating even the rawest spelunker about current events in the caving world. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Mar 4, 2011, at 3:39 PM, Mixon Bill wrote: > If some caver has to promise confidentiality to some private landowner to get > access, I'll grudgingly say that's OK. It's his cave. But essentially all the > caves the CRF is involved in are _our_ caves. There's a very big difference. > Shouldn't the CRF Newsletter carry a warning that it's censored by the US > Government? > --Mixon > > If a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well. > > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] obnoxious landowners
If some caver has to promise confidentiality to some private landowner to get access, I'll grudgingly say that's OK. It's his cave. But essentially all the caves the CRF is involved in are _our_ caves. There's a very big difference. Shouldn't the CRF Newsletter carry a warning that it's censored by the US Government? --Mixon If a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Fwd: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners dept:
> > Working for the BLM, Bill, my job is as a steward of our public lands, not as > a public servant. > While we have no signifiant caves in the 1.2 million acres that I cover, we > do have a large amount of significant archeological resources. We protect > these resources fervently and that includes asking visitors not publish the > locations of said resources. Just as cavers are asked not to openly publish > cave locations > > Gary McDaniel > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 3, 2554 BE, at 7:11 PM, Mixon Bill wrote: > >> From the latest CRF Newsletter: >> >> "On another matter, we have to remind everybody to be careful about posting >> cave photographs or publicity on your personal Facebook page. Agencies are >> very sensitive about this kind of extraneous publicity, especially given the >> WNS situation and our argeements that require agency coordination on any >> kind of publicity. Be sure that you check with your project or operations >> manager before posting any kind of information about CRF work or trips." >> >> The "agencies" are of course our government alleged servants, the USFS and >> the NPS. Getting to resurvey stuff in Mammoth Cave must be really rewarding >> for cavers to put up with such nonsense. -- Mixon >> >> If a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well. >> >> You may "reply" to the address this message >> came from, but for long-term use, save: >> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu >> AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org >> >> >> - >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com >> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com >> - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners dept:
Oh, this gripe still has some life left in it. Please elaborate if you feel like it, Bill. -Tim On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Mixon wrote: > "The "agencies" are of course our government *alleged servants*, the USFS > and the NPS." > > I would, instead, call them "stewards of our public resources". They are > trying to protect those resources for the benefit of all (this and future > generations). > > Next gripe, please. > > Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. > 700 Billie Brooks Drive > Driftwood, Texas 78619 > (512) 799-1095 > a...@gluesenkamp.com > > > -- > *From:* Mixon Bill > *To:* Cavers Texas > *Sent:* Thu, March 3, 2011 8:11:50 PM > *Subject:* [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners dept: > > From the latest CRF Newsletter: > > "On another matter, we have to remind everybody to be careful about posting > cave photographs or publicity on your personal Facebook page. Agencies are > very sensitive about this kind of extraneous publicity, especially given the > WNS situation and our argeements that require agency coordination on any > kind of publicity. Be sure that you check with your project or operations > manager before posting any kind of information about CRF work or trips." > > The "agencies" are of course our government alleged servants, the USFS and > the NPS. Getting to resurvey stuff in Mammoth Cave must be really rewarding > for cavers to put up with such nonsense. -- Mixon > > If a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well. > > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
Re: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners dept:
Mixon wrote: "The "agencies" are of course our government alleged servants, the USFS and the NPS." I would, instead, call them "stewards of our public resources". They are trying to protect those resources for the benefit of all (this and future generations). Next gripe, please. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com From: Mixon Bill To: Cavers Texas Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 8:11:50 PM Subject: [Texascavers] obnoxious landowners dept: >From the latest CRF Newsletter: "On another matter, we have to remind everybody to be careful about posting cave photographs or publicity on your personal Facebook page. Agencies are very sensitive about this kind of extraneous publicity, especially given the WNS situation and our argeements that require agency coordination on any kind of publicity. Be sure that you check with your project or operations manager before posting any kind of information about CRF work or trips." The "agencies" are of course our government alleged servants, the USFS and the NPS. Getting to resurvey stuff in Mammoth Cave must be really rewarding for cavers to put up with such nonsense. -- Mixon If a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] obnoxious landowners dept:
From the latest CRF Newsletter: "On another matter, we have to remind everybody to be careful about posting cave photographs or publicity on your personal Facebook page. Agencies are very sensitive about this kind of extraneous publicity, especially given the WNS situation and our argeements that require agency coordination on any kind of publicity. Be sure that you check with your project or operations manager before posting any kind of information about CRF work or trips." The "agencies" are of course our government alleged servants, the USFS and the NPS. Getting to resurvey stuff in Mammoth Cave must be really rewarding for cavers to put up with such nonsense. -- Mixon If a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
