Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach
Hi Bill, Bravo! I think that speaks to my motivation for posting on outreach. We have a truly incredible community here, and the infrastructure built by cavers in Texas is beyond remarkable. Our relations with landowners, cities, parks, state government, and the many conservancies has been built over decades, and we need new generations and new blood to pass those torches on to. ~~T --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net wrote: From: Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net Subject: Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 6:48 PM Thomas, On a recent cave trip we had some new younger members help us in a cave dig. (They joined the PBSS Grotto later), They not only made me feel young through their exuberance, but I thought one of them was going to fall on the ground and start hollering we're not worthy!. It made me feel weird to have young cavers admiring me because I have been caving for a long while. I am glad to see the new young people get interested in caving. I have been a member of the NSS since 1981. I can honestly say that the PBSS has always made all new comers feel welcome no matter what their experience level is, or their age. We have never had the luxury of so many members that anyone could ever be selective or splinter off into niche groups. I also think it is important that every caver go on a cave trip at least once with a group of cavers that he doesn't know or just met. It can give you a better perspective of how other groups go caving. From the tone of the trip, expertise, to the techniques used, and to how people interact. I have done this before and besides being interesting, it can be fun. I know what you mean about feeling out of place in a different group. I just persevered and eventually as they say...They have no choice but to accept you, cause you won't go away Bill - Original Message - From: Thomas Sitch To: Cavers Texas Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach Okay, a little background. I’ve been caving since I was 7 or 8, when my dad and brother and I explored lava tubes we found by the road or sea caves along the coast in California . Around age twelve I convinced my dad to join the NSS, and we became part of the SoCal Grotto that met at CalTech in Pasadena . I’ve been a casual (but registered) caver ever since, some 20 years now. Please understand that what follows is the most constructive of criticism. I love cavers, I enjoy hanging out with my fellow cavers, and many of the best adventures I’ve had or seen have been part of going to, returning from, or exploring a cave. I also love grotto meetings: I’ve seen slide shows of cavers treed by jaguars (looking down), stalactites shot through with silver and precious minerals, and ancient caves in the Philippines with aboriginal dugout coffins piled up. I (very courteously) disagree with Mixon’s point that there’s a clique for everybody. That’s not really how it looks from the outside. It was very hard to “break in” and feel welcome at the UT Grotto. There were some people who went out of the way to do so (such as Jean, or Aimee) and I will always feel incredible gratitude to them for that. Now I know lots of people and count many friends and it’s a good time, but I see a lot of new people show up and sit largely excluded. Despite the fact that UT is the largest public university in the country, I believe our current number of actual current students can be counted on two hands; maybe just one. We can do better than that. Cavers have a common frame of reference. We’ve had adventures together, and that makes a camaraderie not unlike being old war buddies. That makes it very comfortable to sit with your friends and talk about old or new trips, and uncomfortable to look to new faces. Also, some cavers have very strong views on politics and religion, and this makes for a “self selecting group,” since some people feel unwelcome. As much as I think sacrifices to Oztotl should be mandatory*, being respectful of a diverse set of viewpoints is a better way to go. The tough stick it out, sure. Once people go on trips and gain the trust of the Old Guard they, too, have a common frame of reference. But we lose a lot of good people long before that, and we lose the other good people that they would refer to the world of the dedicated adventuring caver. My point here is that for the good of the caving community we should do more to seek out and welcome new blood. If everyone makes an effort – a conscious effort- to engage new people, we’ll grow and be better for it as a community. Best Regards, ~~Thomas * Joking --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: From
RE: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach
What Bill says below is a big reason for the International Congress of Speleology (ICS). Have you considered leading or helping to lead a caving trip for the ICS, which runs from 19-26 July 2009 in Kerrville? Travis Scott and Joe Mitchell are organizing caving trips for the ICS and need trip leaders and co-leaders. In addition to just the fun of such trips, ICS trip leaders are often invited to go caving internationally to some fantastic caves and areas they never considered or thought accessible. Though you'd have to pay your overseas, caver hosts often provide lodging, in-country transportation, and some meals to reduce the overall expense. I can't promise this would happen if you lead a trip, but I've seen it happen many times at past Congresses. While the ICS is several months away, preparations for trips need to be made now. To help or for more information, contact Travis and Joe at: Travis Scott: tra...@oztotl.com Joe Mitchell: joemitch...@satx.rr.com Thanks, George From: Bill Bentley [mailto:ca...@caver.net] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:49 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach I also think it is important that every caver go on a cave trip at least once with a group of cavers that he doesn't know or just met. It can give you a better perspective of how other groups go caving. From the tone of the trip, expertise, to the techniques used, and to how people interact. I have done this before and besides being interesting, it can be fun.
Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach
Thomas, On a recent cave trip we had some new younger members help us in a cave dig. (They joined the PBSS Grotto later), They not only made me feel young through their exuberance, but I thought one of them was going to fall on the ground and start hollering we're not worthy!. It made me feel weird to have young cavers admiring me because I have been caving for a long while. I am glad to see the new young people get interested in caving. I have been a member of the NSS since 1981. I can honestly say that the PBSS has always made all new comers feel welcome no matter what their experience level is, or their age. We have never had the luxury of so many members that anyone could ever be selective or splinter off into niche groups. I also think it is important that every caver go on a cave trip at least once with a group of cavers that he doesn't know or just met. It can give you a better perspective of how other groups go caving. From the tone of the trip, expertise, to the techniques used, and to how people interact. I have done this before and besides being interesting, it can be fun. I know what you mean about feeling out of place in a different group. I just persevered and eventually as they say...They have no choice but to accept you, cause you won't go away Bill - Original Message - From: Thomas Sitch To: Cavers Texas Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach Okay, a little background. I’ve been caving since I was 7 or 8, when my dad and brother and I explored lava tubes we found by the road or sea caves along the coast in California. Around age twelve I convinced my dad to join the NSS, and we became part of the SoCal Grotto that met at CalTech in Pasadena. I’ve been a casual (but registered) caver ever since, some 20 years now. Please understand that what follows is the most constructive of criticism. I love cavers, I enjoy hanging out with my fellow cavers, and many of the best adventures I’ve had or seen have been part of going to, returning from, or exploring a cave. I also love grotto meetings: I’ve seen slide shows of cavers treed by jaguars (looking down), stalactites shot through with silver and precious minerals, and ancient caves in the Philippines with aboriginal dugout coffins piled up. I (very courteously) disagree with Mixon’s point that there’s a clique for everybody. That’s not really how it looks from the outside. It was very hard to “break in” and feel welcome at the UT Grotto. There were some people who went out of the way to do so (such as Jean, or Aimee) and I will always feel incredible gratitude to them for that. Now I know lots of people and count many friends and it’s a good time, but I see a lot of new people show up and sit largely excluded. Despite the fact that UT is the largest public university in the country, I believe our current number of actual current students can be counted on two hands; maybe just one. We can do better than that. Cavers have a common frame of reference. We’ve had adventures together, and that makes a camaraderie not unlike being old war buddies. That makes it very comfortable to sit with your friends and talk about old or new trips, and uncomfortable to look to new faces. Also, some cavers have very strong views on politics and religion, and this makes for a “self selecting group,” since some people feel unwelcome. As much as I think sacrifices to Oztotl should be mandatory*, being respectful of a diverse set of viewpoints is a better way to go. The tough stick it out, sure. Once people go on trips and gain the trust of the Old Guard they, too, have a common frame of reference. But we lose a lot of good people long before that, and we lose the other good people that they would refer to the world of the dedicated adventuring caver. My point here is that for the good of the caving community we should do more to seek out and welcome new blood. If everyone makes an effort – a conscious effort- to engage new people, we’ll grow and be better for it as a community. Best Regards, ~~Thomas * Joking --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com Subject: [Texascavers] county cavers To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 2:56 PM There's an expression for the problem people have just pointed out with Ediger's outreach idea. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. What fraction of people who show up at one or two grotto meetings do we ever see again? And at least the UT Grotto is large enough that there
