Re: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel Channel
Hmmm - hundreds in a box That overkills just three by quite a margin! -WaV On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Fritz Holt wrote: > When it comes to primary sources of light for caving, do kitchen matches > constitute "poorly equipped"? There are a lot of them in a box. > Geezer spelunker > > -- > *From:* Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:45 PM > *To:* Philip L Moss > *Cc:* Cavers, Texas > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel > Channel > > Actually - > On my last caving trip I was not planning on doing any caving at all. All > my caving gear had been loaned out. > I got talked into it and did so with a borrowed helmet and lousy light > that failed - as luck had it - no backup, but of course I was not alone and > another of my party did have a fine LED backup. > This obviously is not how it should be done. > I did make exceptions to the "golden rules" of caving and survived > nonetheless. I don't intend to make a habit of it. > At least I DID have a good pair of boots (and borrowed elbow and knee > pads. Thanks to David C.!) > I mean - if Bourdain knew what he was getting into - I figure he'd been > better equipped or otherwise he'd simply turn down the opportunity. > -WaV > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Philip L Moss > wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) John Brooks < > > jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> writes: > > > > Yeah..I bet none of us have been caving while "poorly equipped"... > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > While many of us have undoubtedly caved while poorly equipped, I think > > that there is an important distinction between what is done discreetly and > > what is done in a public setting such as TV and newspapers. In my > > experience, people learn much more from what they see and do, than from what > > they are told. > > > > If one leads a group of new people and tells them that each should have > > three independent sources of light, but that because this cave is easy or > > because of the large group, or we aren't going far in we have made an > > exception and you can get by with a flashlight, then what they have learned > > is that it is OK to cave with one flashlight. > > > > There are many good rules to safe caving that should be viewed as > > inviolable to beginners but must have some flexibility to deal with risks as > > evaluated by a highly experienced caver. > > > > Call it hypocritical if you must. However, safety is enhanced by > > discouraging new people from learning the hard way about risk analysis. > > > > Philip L. Moss > > philipm...@juno.com > > > >
RE: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel Channel
When it comes to primary sources of light for caving, do kitchen matches constitute "poorly equipped"? There are a lot of them in a box. Geezer spelunker _ From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:45 PM To: Philip L Moss Cc: Cavers, Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel Channel Actually - On my last caving trip I was not planning on doing any caving at all. All my caving gear had been loaned out. I got talked into it and did so with a borrowed helmet and lousy light that failed - as luck had it - no backup, but of course I was not alone and another of my party did have a fine LED backup. This obviously is not how it should be done. I did make exceptions to the "golden rules" of caving and survived nonetheless. I don't intend to make a habit of it. At least I DID have a good pair of boots (and borrowed elbow and knee pads. Thanks to David C.!) I mean - if Bourdain knew what he was getting into - I figure he'd been better equipped or otherwise he'd simply turn down the opportunity. -WaV On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Philip L Moss wrote: On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) John Brooks writes: Yeah..I bet none of us have been caving while "poorly equipped"... Sent from my iPhone While many of us have undoubtedly caved while poorly equipped, I think that there is an important distinction between what is done discreetly and what is done in a public setting such as TV and newspapers. In my experience, people learn much more from what they see and do, than from what they are told. If one leads a group of new people and tells them that each should have three independent sources of light, but that because this cave is easy or because of the large group, or we aren't going far in we have made an exception and you can get by with a flashlight, then what they have learned is that it is OK to cave with one flashlight. There are many good rules to safe caving that should be viewed as inviolable to beginners but must have some flexibility to deal with risks as evaluated by a highly experienced caver. Call it hypocritical if you must. However, safety is enhanced by discouraging new people from learning the hard way about risk analysis. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com
Re: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel Channel
Actually - On my last caving trip I was not planning on doing any caving at all. All my caving gear had been loaned out. I got talked into it and did so with a borrowed helmet and lousy light that failed - as luck had it - no backup, but of course I was not alone and another of my party did have a fine LED backup. This obviously is not how it should be done. I did make exceptions to the "golden rules" of caving and survived nonetheless. I don't intend to make a habit of it. At least I DID have a good pair of boots (and borrowed elbow and knee pads. Thanks to David C.!) I mean - if Bourdain knew what he was getting into - I figure he'd been better equipped or otherwise he'd simply turn down the opportunity. -WaV On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Philip L Moss wrote: > > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) John Brooks < > jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> writes: > > Yeah..I bet none of us have been caving while "poorly equipped"... > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > While many of us have undoubtedly caved while poorly equipped, I think > that there is an important distinction between what is done discreetly and > what is done in a public setting such as TV and newspapers. In my > experience, people learn much more from what they see and do, than from what > they are told. > > If one leads a group of new people and tells them that each should have > three independent sources of light, but that because this cave is easy or > because of the large group, or we aren't going far in we have made an > exception and you can get by with a flashlight, then what they have learned > is that it is OK to cave with one flashlight. > > There are many good rules to safe caving that should be viewed as > inviolable to beginners but must have some flexibility to deal with risks as > evaluated by a highly experienced caver. > > Call it hypocritical if you must. However, safety is enhanced by > discouraging new people from learning the hard way about risk analysis. > > Philip L. Moss > philipm...@juno.com >
Re: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel Channel
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) John Brooks writes: Yeah..I bet none of us have been caving while "poorly equipped"... Sent from my iPhone While many of us have undoubtedly caved while poorly equipped, I think that there is an important distinction between what is done discreetly and what is done in a public setting such as TV and newspapers. In my experience, people learn much more from what they see and do, than from what they are told. If one leads a group of new people and tells them that each should have three independent sources of light, but that because this cave is easy or because of the large group, or we aren't going far in we have made an exception and you can get by with a flashlight, then what they have learned is that it is OK to cave with one flashlight. There are many good rules to safe caving that should be viewed as inviolable to beginners but must have some flexibility to deal with risks as evaluated by a highly experienced caver. Call it hypocritical if you must. However, safety is enhanced by discouraging new people from learning the hard way about risk analysis. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com
Re: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel Channel
Yeah..I bet none of us have been caving while "poorly equipped"... Sent from my iPhone On Feb 20, 2008, at 2:10 PM, "Don Cooper" wrote: Yeah - I think I saw that episode. The guy certainly has a lot of charisma - I cannot help but to like him - but as "an outdoorsman" I think he's a little bit on the wimpy side. I found it hard to believe he'd go 'caving' so poorly equipped. (On top of that he smokes cigarettes. Da fool!) Another "eat anything go everywhere" character I've seen on the Travel Channel is Andrew Zimmer - that guy I have to dislike! Anyone who eats bats shall illicit nothing but scorn from me. -WaV On Feb 19, 2008 7:34 AM, wrote: Anyone catch the irreverent travel host and world renowned foodie on the Travel Channel last night? He went caving in Jamaica and, from all appearances, had a miserable time. Part of the problem may be that his intrepid guides had him wearing tennis shoes into a muddy cave, no gloves or knee pads, trekking thru jungle with 200% humidity, and he seemed particularly concerned about "anal invading parasites". Can't blame him on the latter point! He will eat the most gosh awful food (watch the Namibia episode to watch him partake of a certain delicacy from the back end of a warthog to see what I mean), but I wouldn't count on him making any Grotto meetings. If you missed it, they're running it again on Feb. 23rd at 1 PM. Set them DVR's! Later, Mark
Re: [Texascavers] Anthony Bourdain Goes Caving on the Travel Channel
Yeah - I think I saw that episode. The guy certainly has a lot of charisma - I cannot help but to like him - but as "an outdoorsman" I think he's a little bit on the wimpy side. I found it hard to believe he'd go 'caving' so poorly equipped. (On top of that he smokes cigarettes. Da fool!) Another "eat anything go everywhere" character I've seen on the Travel Channel is Andrew Zimmer - that guy I have to dislike! Anyone who eats bats shall illicit nothing but scorn from me. -WaV On Feb 19, 2008 7:34 AM, wrote: > > Anyone catch the irreverent travel host and world renowned foodie on the > Travel Channel last night? > > He went caving in Jamaica and, from all appearances, had a miserable time. > > Part of the problem may be that his intrepid guides had him wearing tennis > shoes into a muddy cave, no gloves or knee pads, trekking thru jungle with > 200% humidity, > and he seemed particularly concerned about "anal invading parasites". > > Can't blame him on the latter point! > > He will eat the most gosh awful food (watch the Namibia episode to watch > him partake of a certain delicacy from the back end of a warthog to see what > I mean), > but I wouldn't count on him making any Grotto meetings. > > If you missed it, they're running it again on Feb. 23rd at 1 PM. > > Set them DVR's! > > > Later, > > Mark > > > >
