Re: [Texascavers] Viewpoint 2
And so, my fellow cavers, ask not what the Caver can do for you - but what can I do for the Caver! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote: At 05:38 PM 1/19/2009, Geoff Hoese wrote: The TSA exists to serve the interests of its members. Yes. But that's sorta like saying that motherhood is a good thing. It's pretty much unqualified. There are a couple of sides to that argument, of course. One is completely selfish; the other is benevolent and fulfilling. Over simplifying here, I will say that one only addresses the What can I get for myself out of this organization? Then gimme it! What they have in mind and what they get is pretty much an inanimate object in the form of The TEXAS CAVER. Their dues and that tangible object are related in their minds--one begats the other and vice versa. That the TSA never does anything else for them (or that they never expect for the TSA to do anything else for them) is of little consequence. In their minds one is the other. Aside from the pride and prestige of being a member--for whatever that's worth--they expect little more than The CAVER and infrequent (mostly non-caving) events where they can see old friends, sit around a campfire drinking beer, and telling war stories. Pretty exciting and fulfilling, huh? Then there is the practical side of the What can the TSA do for me? contingent. They are the ones who are interested in the TSA 'making caving better for them and, benevolently, other cavers,' not just sending them a fancy publication. They ask several questions: How is the TSA working to solve problems caused by new or independent or non-cavers that affect my access to many caves? What is the TSA doing to prevent bad publicity? What is the TSA doing to encourage and promote good publicity? How is the TSA educating cavers to improve cave and landowner relations? How is the TSA promoting safe cave exploration? What is the TSA doing to educate non-cavers as to the dangers of cave environment and ground water polution? How is the TSA reaching out to new cavers to encourage them to join their fellow cavers in the TSA? What is the TSA doing to educate new cavers about established techniques and equipment and all cavers in timely advances in those fields? How is the TSA promoting the discovery of new caves? How is anything the TSA is doing contributing to making caving better for me and my friends and, even, for cavers I will never know or come in contact with? In short, how is the TSA affecting my caving positively? These--and more--are the questions that caver members of the TSA could claim that the TSA ought to be responding to for its members. In numbers there is strength and the more caver-members that the TSA has the larger the caver base and collective skills and knowledge and man power it has to pursue its goals and purposes--all to the benefit of each other and the various entities of the 'association'-- not just the narrow me, me, me mentality of newsletter only members. And that is something not so tangible as The TEXAS CAVER but much more valuable as a service to cavers and caving in the long run. The TSA--the Texas Region--was formed by cavers who strived to attract all (or as many as posible) cavers into a common-interest group which could better address mutual caving problems (landowner relations, safety, training, creature comforts) and increase a caver's sphere of acquaintences within the caving community--again to members' individual and mutual benefit. It was so important that they wrote that into their first constitution as a part of their goals and purposes. You can read that as a benefit: more friends means more opportunity to go on more trips to explore more caves and more and diverse knowledge about caves and equipment and techniques and all sorts of other intangible but significantly valuable perks that most cavers would appreciate. That (or those) would seem to me to be the sort of things that the TSA should pursue in order to serve the interests of its members. Understand, for sure, that The TEXAS CAVER is an important vector in that pursuit of those goals and purposes. It is chock-full of excactly the kind of information that the new and independent caver ought to be receiving from the TSA in pursuit of it's goals and purposes--and those of our fellow, but unknown, cavers. But if they don't receive The CAVER, if they aren't attracted to join the TSA, how will they know? How will that serve the interests of its members? While The TEXAS CAVER is a valuable, tangible tool of the TSA in the pursuit of its goals and purposes, it is the intangible tools that the TSA provides (or should provide) its members that give it the ability to serve the interests of its members which, ostensibly, is the pursuit of caving. So long as someone is
RE: [Texascavers] Viewpoint 2
Aye carumba! Although, it's probably apropos on Inauguration Day. Mark From: Don Arburn [mailto:donarb...@mac.com] Sent: Tue 1/20/2009 10:14 AM To: Gill Ediger Cc: Texas Cavers List Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Viewpoint 2 And so, my fellow cavers, ask not what the Caver can do for you - but what can I do for the Caver! Sent from my iPhone
Re: [Texascavers] Viewpoint 2
Oh, alright. I offer to take over as Editor of the Texas Caver to free up Mark Alman, our TSA President, to focus on all of these more important TSA activities. --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com wrote: And so, my fellow cavers, ask not what the Caver can do for you - but what can I do for the Caver! On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote: At 05:38 PM 1/19/2009, Geoff Hoese wrote: The TSA exists to serve the interests of its members. Yes. But that's sorta like saying that motherhood is a good thing. It's pretty much unqualified. There are a couple of sides to that argument, of course. One is completely selfish; the other is benevolent and fulfilling. Over simplifying here, I will say that one only addresses the What can I get for myself out of this organization? Then gimme it! What they have in mind and what they get is pretty much an inanimate object in the form of The TEXAS CAVER. Their dues and that tangible object are related in their minds--one begats the other and vice versa. That the TSA never does anything else for them (or that they never expect for the TSA to do anything else for them) is of little consequence. In their minds one is the other. Aside from the pride and prestige of being a member--for whatever that's worth--they expect little more than The CAVER and infrequent (mostly non-caving) events where they can see old friends, sit around a campfire drinking beer, and telling war stories. Pretty exciting and fulfilling, huh? Then there is the practical side of the What can the TSA do for me? contingent. They are the ones who are interested in the TSA 'making caving better for them and, benevolently, other cavers,' not just sending them a fancy publication. They ask several questions: How is the TSA working to solve problems caused by new or independent or non-cavers that affect my access to many caves? What is the TSA doing to prevent bad publicity? What is the TSA doing to encourage and promote good publicity? How is the TSA educating cavers to improve cave and landowner relations? How is the TSA promoting safe cave exploration? What is the TSA doing to educate non-cavers as to the dangers of cave environment and ground water polution? How is the TSA reaching out to new cavers to encourage them to join their fellow cavers in the TSA? What is the TSA doing to educate new cavers about established techniques and equipment and all cavers in timely advances in those fields? How is the TSA promoting the discovery of new caves? How is anything the TSA is doing contributing to making caving better for me and my friends and, even, for cavers I will never know or come in contact with? In short, how is the TSA affecting my caving positively? These--and more--are the questions that caver members of the TSA could claim that the TSA ought to be responding to for its members. In numbers there is strength and the more caver-members that the TSA has the larger the caver base and collective skills and knowledge and man power it has to pursue its goals and purposes--all to the benefit of each other and the various entities of the 'association'--not just the narrow me, me, me mentality of newsletter only members. And that is something not so tangible as The TEXAS CAVER but much more valuable as a service to cavers and caving in the long run. The TSA--the Texas Region--was formed by cavers who strived to attract all (or as many as posible) cavers into a common-interest group which could better address mutual caving problems (landowner relations, safety, training, creature comforts) and increase a caver's sphere of acquaintences within the caving community--again to members' individual and mutual benefit. It was so important that they wrote that into their first constitution as a part of their goals and purposes. You can read that as a benefit: more friends means more opportunity to go on more trips to explore more caves and more and diverse knowledge about caves and equipment and techniques and all sorts of other intangible but significantly valuable perks that most cavers would appreciate. That (or those) would seem to me to be the sort of things that the TSA should pursue in order to serve the interests of its members. Understand, for sure, that The TEXAS CAVER is an important vector in that pursuit of those goals and purposes. It is chock-full of excactly the kind of information that the new and independent caver ought to be receiving from the TSA in pursuit of it's goals and purposes--and those of our fellow, but unknown, cavers. But if they don't receive The CAVER, if they aren't attracted to join the TSA, how will they know? How will that serve the interests of its members? While The TEXAS CAVER is a valuable, tangible tool of the TSA in the pursuit of its goals and purposes, it is the
RE: [Texascavers] Viewpoint 2
It's Chairman, Terri, and I kind of like doing the Caver. 8^) Thanks, though! Mark From: Terri Sprouse [mailto:terri.spro...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tue 1/20/2009 10:42 AM To: Gill Ediger; Don Arburn Cc: Texas Cavers List Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Viewpoint 2 Oh, alright. I offer to take over as Editor of the Texas Caver to free up Mark Alman, our TSA President, to focus on all of these more important TSA activities. --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com wrote: And so, my fellow cavers, ask not what the Caver can do for you - but what can I do for the Caver!
