Re: [Texascavers] looking for cave near Langtry

[grubbsi]

LiDAR for that area is recently available so if there is a significant surface 
feature associated with this cave it may be located thru that. Send me coords 
AGG 

From: "George Veni"  
To: "texascavers"  
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 12:24:35 PM 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] looking for cave near Langtry 



John and Terry, 



Curiosity got me digging. 



John, there was no cave in the Texas Speleological Survey database that matched 
your information. There is now. I’ve plugged your information into the database 
at a location that might be the site of an old homestead but really needs 
someone to check the county property records to confirm where the Walter Babb 
Ranch headquarters was precisely located (although during my digging I found a 
1953 El Paso newspaper article where Babb was allegedly caught stealing 
cattle). 



Terry, Fielder Canyon Cave is in the TSS database, but not in Texas. Several 
Texas caves and karst features without location information are assigned the 
same set of default coordinates in southeast New Mexico. Once location 
information is available, they are relocated back into Texas. Using the 
information you sent, I moved the cave into Texas to coordinates that are 
probably accurate to within about 1,500 m. 



George 




 

George Veni, PhD 

Executive Director, National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI) 

and 

President, International Union of Speleology (UIS) 



NCKRI address (primary) 

400-1 Cascades Avenue 

Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220 USA 

Office: +575-887-5517 

Mobile: +210-863-5919 

Fax: +575-887-5523 

[ mailto:gv...@nckri.org | gv...@nckri.org ] 


[ http://www.nckri.org/ | www.nckri.org ] 



UIS address 

Titov trg 2 

Postojna, 6230 Slovenia 





From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of john 
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 01:23 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com; karstwal...@gmail.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] looking for cave near Langtry 




This isn’t the one I’m looking for, but thanks for the reference. I had not 
seen this one written up before although I’ve been to several caves and lots of 
occupied rockshelters near here. 


John 









On Apr 28, 2021, at 7:43 PM, Karstwalker < [ mailto:karstwal...@gmail.com | 
karstwal...@gmail.com ] > wrote: 





So might this be the cave listed in NSS Bulletin No10 as Fielder Canyon Cave? 
See attached description 

Terry H. 

On 2021-04-28 12:39, john wrote: 


BQ_BEGIN


Hi All, 
Hopefully someone can help me locate a small vertical cave north or northwest 
of Langtry. I have known of this cave for decades, but because of its history 
relative to the family, I have put off recording the cave (or even visiting it) 
until now. Most of the family is now dead, and with me at the end of life the 
location and history of the cave will be lost soon. I don’t think it is 
mentioned in the Caves of Val Verde County, but it should end up in the county 
files for both caves and archeology for future reference and history. 
It is a small vertical pit with supposedly a small opening entrance and ample 
interior space. I have no idea if it has vertical walls or bells out. It should 
be fairly close to the old Walter Babb ranch headquarters, which I assume was 
his small ranchhouse, shed, and normal old-style pens. Since I have never been 
to the cave, I don’t know its exact location, but it was rumored to be a 
vertical pit relatively near the house. The cave would be similar to the 
vertical pits of Hitzfelder and Mason’s Indian Cave and nothing like Lead or 
any of the other Langtry area caves. 
If anyone has any ideas or general information, you can post them to this list. 
But if you have the exact location, please respond to me personally at [ 
mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com | jgr...@greerservices.com ] < [ 
mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com | mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com ] > or text 
me at 307-267-2036. Many thanks. 
Web info on Walter Babb: 
Born 1877, Georgia. 
Ranch between Langtry and Pandale. 
Babb Ranch 8.24 miles north-northwest of Langtry. 
“Both my parents went to the cave they [bank robbers] hid out in on the Babb 
Ranch between Pandale and Langtry”. [I suspect that is some large rockshelter 
down on the river and not the small vertical cave I am interested in.]. “Walter 
Babb took them [the author’s parents] around to some of the caves, one still 
had Indian artifacts inside [again, he is talking about occupied shelters along 
the river or in the canyon]. 
Cemetery in Langtry: Ike Babb 1856-1934 (probably Will and Walter’s father); 
William Lewis Babb 1876-1913 (killed in Langtry); other family members buried 
here born 1836, 1849. 
[my irrelevant comment] Walter was presumably Boye Babb’s father. Boye lived 
just west of Langtry, just above Langtry Creek. We dug the Langtry Creek Burial 
Cave just below his house in 1963 or so, at the _same_ time that he got into a 
gun fight at his house and was killed, just after he gave us permission

Re: [Texascavers] looking for cave near Langtry

[john]

This isn’t the one I’m looking for, but thanks for the reference. I had not 
seen this one written up before although I’ve been to several caves and lots of 
occupied rockshelters near here. 
John

> On Apr 28, 2021, at 7:43 PM, Karstwalker  wrote:
> 
> So might this be the cave listed in NSS Bulletin No10 as Fielder Canyon Cave?
> See attached description
> 
> Terry H.
> 
> On 2021-04-28 12:39, john wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> Hopefully someone can help me locate a small vertical cave north or 
>> northwest of Langtry. I have known of this cave for decades, but because of 
>> its history relative to the family, I have put off recording the cave (or 
>> even visiting it) until now. Most of the family is now dead, and with me at 
>> the end of life the location and history of the cave will be lost soon. I 
>> don’t think it is mentioned in the Caves of Val Verde County, but it should 
>> end up in the county files for both caves and archeology for future 
>> reference and history.
>> It is a small vertical pit with supposedly a small opening entrance and 
>> ample interior space. I have no idea if it has vertical walls or bells out. 
>> It should be fairly close to the old Walter Babb ranch headquarters, which I 
>> assume was his small ranchhouse, shed, and normal old-style pens. Since I 
>> have never been to the cave, I don’t know its exact location, but it was 
>> rumored to be a vertical pit relatively near the house. The cave would be 
>> similar to the vertical pits of Hitzfelder and Mason’s Indian Cave and 
>> nothing like Lead or any of the other Langtry area caves.
>> If anyone has any ideas or general information, you can post them to this 
>> list. But if you have the exact location, please respond to me personally at 
>> jgr...@greerservices.com  
>> > or text 
>> me at 307-267-2036. Many thanks.
>> Web info on Walter Babb:
>> Born 1877, Georgia.
>> Ranch between Langtry and Pandale.
>> Babb Ranch 8.24 miles north-northwest of Langtry.
>> “Both my parents went to the cave they [bank robbers] hid out in on the Babb 
>> Ranch between Pandale and Langtry”. [I suspect that is some large 
>> rockshelter down on the river and not the small vertical cave I am 
>> interested in.]. “Walter Babb took them [the author’s parents] around to 
>> some of the caves, one still had Indian artifacts inside [again, he is 
>> talking about occupied shelters along the river or in the canyon].
>> Cemetery in Langtry: Ike Babb 1856-1934 (probably Will and Walter’s father); 
>> William Lewis Babb 1876-1913 (killed in Langtry); other family members 
>> buried here born 1836, 1849.
>> [my irrelevant comment] Walter was presumably Boye Babb’s father. Boye lived 
>> just west of Langtry, just above Langtry Creek. We dug the Langtry Creek 
>> Burial Cave just below his house in 1963 or so, at the _same_ time that he 
>> got into a gun fight at his house and was killed, just after he gave us 
>> permission to go on in. [This has nothing to do with the cave up off of 
>> Pandale Road, just my reminiscence.]
>> John Greer
>> nss 14018
>> ___
>> 

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Re: [Texascavers] looking for cave near Langtry

[Karstwalker]

So might this be the cave listed in NSS Bulletin No10 as Fielder 
Canyon Cave?

 See attached description

Terry H.

On 2021-04-28 12:39, john wrote:

Hi All,

Hopefully someone can help me locate a small vertical cave north or 
northwest of Langtry. I have known of this cave for decades, but 
because of its history relative to the family, I have put off 
recording the cave (or even visiting it) until now. Most of the family 
is now dead, and with me at the end of life the location and history 
of the cave will be lost soon. I don’t think it is mentioned in the 
Caves of Val Verde County, but it should end up in the county files 
for both caves and archeology for future reference and history.


It is a small vertical pit with supposedly a small opening entrance 
and ample interior space. I have no idea if it has vertical walls or 
bells out. It should be fairly close to the old Walter Babb ranch 
headquarters, which I assume was his small ranchhouse, shed, and 
normal old-style pens. Since I have never been to the cave, I don’t 
know its exact location, but it was rumored to be a vertical pit 
relatively near the house. The cave would be similar to the vertical 
pits of Hitzfelder and Mason’s Indian Cave and nothing like Lead or 
any of the other Langtry area caves.


If anyone has any ideas or general information, you can post them to 
this list. But if you have the exact location, please respond to me 
personally at jgr...@greerservices.com 
 or text me at 307-267-2036. Many 
thanks.


Web info on Walter Babb:
Born 1877, Georgia.
Ranch between Langtry and Pandale.
Babb Ranch 8.24 miles north-northwest of Langtry.
“Both my parents went to the cave they [bank robbers] hid out in on 
the Babb Ranch between Pandale and Langtry”. [I suspect that is some 
large rockshelter down on the river and not the small vertical cave I 
am interested in.]. “Walter Babb took them [the author’s parents] 
around to some of the caves, one still had Indian artifacts inside 
[again, he is talking about occupied shelters along the river or in 
the canyon].
Cemetery in Langtry: Ike Babb 1856-1934 (probably Will and Walter’s 
father); William Lewis Babb 1876-1913 (killed in Langtry); other 
family members buried here born 1836, 1849.


[my irrelevant comment] Walter was presumably Boye Babb’s father. Boye 
lived just west of Langtry, just above Langtry Creek. We dug the 
Langtry Creek Burial Cave just below his house in 1963 or so, at the 
_same_ time that he got into a gun fight at his house and was killed, 
just after he gave us permission to go on in. [This has nothing to do 
with the cave up off of Pandale Road, just my reminiscence.]


John Greer
nss 14018



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