Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

2016-07-03 Thread Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers 
Yeah, the US is way behind in conversion to cleaner energy production.
Many European countries are way ahead of us in using renewable energy, see
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Energy_production,_2003_and_2013_(million_tonnes_of_oil_equivalent)_YB15.png


I couldn't find more recent data.

Charles
wo...@justfamily.org


On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Bill Stephens via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> While 3 centuries of coal production has caused an enormous burden on the
> US environment, it fueled the industrial revolution which provided us with
> the leisure time to pursue cave exploration and the technological
> capability to have the discussion across the breath of a continent. With
> that said. as far as "coal-fired plants no longer needed", according to the
> EIA 35% of total US energy consumption in 2015 was from coal, while all
> Renewables (excluding biomass) produced less than 7.5%.
> "A 2013 study
> <http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wsb.260/abstract> in the
> Wildlife Society Bulletin estimated that wind turbines killed about *888,000
> bats* and *573,000 birds* (including 83,000 raptors) in 2012.
> Since then US wind energy has increased by 24% and is expected to triple
> by 2030. The US wind industry is permitted to kill 4200 Bald
> Eagles annually, or roughly 6% of the entire population of 72,000. I am
> unaware of any analysis that portends nearly this level of carnage from ANY
> other energy source.Not to defend coal, but just to observe the facts.
>
> Conversion of more coal fired power plants to natural gas and modern, low
> waste, low temperature nuclear power plants are the only solution in the
> near to moderate term.
>
> Bill Stephens
> --
> *From:* Terry Plemons via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> *To:* Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves
>
> When discussing the bird life caused by the wind turbines it should be
> noted that the coal-fired plants no longer needed caused problems for birds
> by clearing of forests, pollution of streams, and air pollution. I do not
> know if a tradeoff of one power generation vs. another has been accurately
> assessed, if that is possible, but the comparison is relevant.
> T. Plemons
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
> In reference to Bill's post,
> My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be running either way and
> that they create much needed jobs there.
> The delivery of the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in
> the field.
> Diesel trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while
> simultaneously delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.
> They most likely just need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.
> I see no reason a cave tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge
> batteries for headlamps or to power lights in the cave.
> I would like to see a giant turbine mounted horizontally at ground-level
> and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people push it.
> It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not
> convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions
> jackpot, I am going to fix that.
> I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try to save money.   It is too
> bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas to power something.
> David Locklear
>
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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

2016-07-01 Thread Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
The lesson here is that there is no free lunch when it comes to energy 
production.  And coal burning generates carbon dioxide - limiting agent for 
plant growth in certain regions of the world - so it's not all bad;). 
Particulate matter on the other hand, maybe not the greatest.
RK

Get Outlook for iOS




On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:49 AM -0500, "Bill Stephens via Texascavers" 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:





While 3 centuries of coal production has caused an enormous burden on the US 
environment, it fueled the industrial revolution which provided us with the 
leisure time to pursue cave exploration and the technological capability to 
have the discussion across the breath of a continent. With that said. as far as 
"coal-fired plants no longer needed", according to the EIA 35% of total US 
energy consumption in 2015 was from coal, while all Renewables (excluding 
biomass) produced less than 7.5%. "A 2013 study in the Wildlife Society 
Bulletin estimated that wind turbines killed about 888,000 bats and 573,000 
birds (including 83,000 raptors) in 2012.Since then US wind energy has 
increased by 24% and is expected to triple by 2030. The US wind industry is 
permitted to kill 4200 Bald Eagles annually, or roughly 6% of the entire 
population of 72,000. I am unaware of any analysis that portends nearly this 
level of carnage from ANY other energy source.Not to defend coal, but just to 
observe the facts.

Conversion of more coal fired power plants to natural gas and modern, low 
waste, low temperature nuclear power plants are the only solution in the near 
to moderate term.
Bill Stephens  From: Terry Plemons via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com>
 To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com>
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

When discussing the bird life caused by the wind turbines itshould be noted 
that the coal-fired plants no longer needed caused problems forbirds by 
clearing of forests, pollution of streams, and air pollution. I do notknow if a 
tradeoff of one power generation vs. another has been accuratelyassessed, if 
that is possible, but the comparison is relevant. T. Plemons

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

In reference to Bill's post, My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be 
running either way and that they create much needed jobs there.The delivery of 
the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in the field.Diesel 
trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while simultaneously 
delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.They most likely just 
need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.I see no reason a cave 
tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge batteries for headlamps or 
to power lights in the cave.I would like to see a giant turbine mounted 
horizontally at ground-level and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people 
push it.It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not 
convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions 
jackpot, I am going to fix that.I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try 
to save money.   It is too bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas 
to power something.David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

2016-07-01 Thread Bill Stephens via Texascavers 
While 3 centuries of coal production has caused an enormous burden on the US 
environment, it fueled the industrial revolution which provided us with the 
leisure time to pursue cave exploration and the technological capability to 
have the discussion across the breath of a continent. With that said. as far as 
"coal-fired plants no longer needed", according to the EIA 35% of total US 
energy consumption in 2015 was from coal, while all Renewables (excluding 
biomass) produced less than 7.5%. "A 2013 study in the Wildlife Society 
Bulletin estimated that wind turbines killed about 888,000 bats and 573,000 
birds (including 83,000 raptors) in 2012.Since then US wind energy has 
increased by 24% and is expected to triple by 2030. The US wind industry is 
permitted to kill 4200 Bald Eagles annually, or roughly 6% of the entire 
population of 72,000. I am unaware of any analysis that portends nearly this 
level of carnage from ANY other energy source.Not to defend coal, but just to 
observe the facts.

Conversion of more coal fired power plants to natural gas and modern, low 
waste, low temperature nuclear power plants are the only solution in the near 
to moderate term.
Bill Stephens  From: Terry Plemons via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com>
 To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves
   
When discussing the bird life caused by the wind turbines itshould be noted 
that the coal-fired plants no longer needed caused problems forbirds by 
clearing of forests, pollution of streams, and air pollution. I do notknow if a 
tradeoff of one power generation vs. another has been accuratelyassessed, if 
that is possible, but the comparison is relevant. T. Plemons

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

In reference to Bill's post, My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be 
running either way and that they create much needed jobs there.The delivery of 
the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in the field.Diesel 
trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while simultaneously 
delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.They most likely just 
need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.I see no reason a cave 
tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge batteries for headlamps or 
to power lights in the cave.I would like to see a giant turbine mounted 
horizontally at ground-level and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people 
push it.It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not 
convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions 
jackpot, I am going to fix that.I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try 
to save money.   It is too bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas 
to power something.David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

2016-06-30 Thread Terry Plemons via Texascavers 
When discussing the bird life caused by the wind turbines it should be
noted that the coal-fired plants no longer needed caused problems for birds
by clearing of forests, pollution of streams, and air pollution. I do not
know if a tradeoff of one power generation vs. another has been accurately
assessed, if that is possible, but the comparison is relevant.

T. Plemons


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> In reference to Bill's post,
>
> My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be running either way and
> that they create much needed jobs there.
>
> The delivery of the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in
> the field.
>
> Diesel trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while
> simultaneously delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.
>
> They most likely just need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.
>
> I see no reason a cave tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge
> batteries for headlamps or to power lights in the cave.
>
> I would like to see a giant turbine mounted horizontally at ground-level
> and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people push it.
>
> It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not
> convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions
> jackpot, I am going to fix that.
>
> I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try to save money.   It is too
> bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas to power something.
>
> David Locklear
>
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> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

2016-06-30 Thread Gill Ediger via Texascavers 
I ran trains that hauled NYC trash to a landfill in Virginia. The trains that 
went to West Texas were made up of tank cars loaded with raw sewage which was 
being blown out onto the ground surface of a jillion acre ranch to be digeste 
by bacteria. Don't know what ever came of it. There was some contention about 
it, as you might imagine. But I don't think bats were being chewed up in any 
blades. 
-- Ediger 

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:17 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
 wrote:
 

 Check out Sierra Blanca and Van Horn where they were setting up methane 
plants. The poop was to be hauled in by train and dumped in caves where it 
fermented or what ever and then gas would come out and turn turbines. Problem 
was there are no transmission lines out there. They were going to get NYC trash 
and so forth. A great idea that wasn't though through. Well maybe  a great idea.
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers 
 wrote:

In reference to Bill's post, My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be 
running either way and that they create much needed jobs there.The delivery of 
the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in the field.Diesel 
trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while simultaneously 
delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.They most likely just 
need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.I see no reason a cave 
tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge batteries for headlamps or 
to power lights in the cave.I would like to see a giant turbine mounted 
horizontally at ground-level and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people 
push it.It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not 
convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions 
jackpot, I am going to fix that.I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try 
to save money.   It is too bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas 
to power something.David Locklear
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

2016-06-30 Thread Charles Loving via Texascavers 
Check out Sierra Blanca and Van Horn where they were setting up methane
plants. The poop was to be hauled in by train and dumped in caves where it
fermented or what ever and then gas would come out and turn turbines.
Problem was there are no transmission lines out there. They were going to
get NYC trash and so forth. A great idea that wasn't though through. Well
maybe  a great idea.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> In reference to Bill's post,
>
> My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be running either way and
> that they create much needed jobs there.
>
> The delivery of the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in
> the field.
>
> Diesel trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while
> simultaneously delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.
>
> They most likely just need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.
>
> I see no reason a cave tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge
> batteries for headlamps or to power lights in the cave.
>
> I would like to see a giant turbine mounted horizontally at ground-level
> and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people push it.
>
> It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not
> convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions
> jackpot, I am going to fix that.
>
> I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try to save money.   It is too
> bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas to power something.
>
> David Locklear
>
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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>
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

2016-06-30 Thread C Tiderman via Texascavers 
David,
Add a little savory to your beans. It acts like beano but is way cheaper. Any 
grocery store will have it. Carol

  From: David via Texascavers 
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 2:12 PM
 Subject: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves
   
In reference to Bill's post, My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be 
running either way and that they create much needed jobs there.The delivery of 
the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in the field.Diesel 
trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while simultaneously 
delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.They most likely just 
need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.I see no reason a cave 
tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge batteries for headlamps or 
to power lights in the cave.I would like to see a giant turbine mounted 
horizontally at ground-level and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people 
push it.It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not 
convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions 
jackpot, I am going to fix that.I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try 
to save money.   It is too bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas 
to power something.David Locklear
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